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Fasting / 5:2 diet

Talk about intermittent fasting and 5:2, including what’s worked for others. Mumsnet hasn't checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. You may wish to speak to a medical professional before starting any diet.

5:2 Thread number 92: Don’t train to be skinny Train to be a lean bad ass. Come join the bad asses

999 replies

BigChocFrenzy · 06/08/2020 15:19

Welcome to the continuing thread for those following 5:2 or other forms of IF (Intermittent Fasting) such as 4:3, ADF, or daily 16:8 Smile

The 5:2 diet was introduced by Michael Mosely on BBC Horizon on August 2012:

Basically it is 2 very low cal days ("fasts") per week - which need not be consecutive - and eat "normally" to maintain on the other 5 days.

For those who have dieted or maybe overeaten for years, eating "normally"
means roughly the number of calories your body needs to maintain - NOT reduce - its weight (see TDEE calculator below).

IMPORTANT
If you have had past diagnosed Eating Disorders or serious MH problems you should NOT do 5:2 or any other kind of fasting

ACRONYMS

16:8 is a different type of fasting, which can be combined with 5:2.
Daily zero-cal fast for 16 hours and eat within an 8 hour window. To lose weight, this needs a weekly calorie deficit as well

4:3 = fast on 3 non-consecutive days per week

ADF (Alternate-Day Fasting) = fast every other day

b2b (optional) back-to-back / consecutive fast days, each with an increased allowance of 650 calories instead of 500

BMI (Body Mass Index) healthy range is 18.5 - 24.9 for Caucasians. Upper limit may be 22 for some of Asian origin.

FD = single Fast Day: aim for 500 calories (600 for men or 25% TDEE whichever is higher) or 1000 cals for BF
No alcohol or junk on FDs
Even if you exercise strenuously, do NOT increase FD cals to allow for exercise

MFP = My Fitness Pal, a useful App or website to track food & drink calories

miniFD = MiniFD, 850- 1000 calories, no alcohol or junk

NFD = Non-Fast Day, averages around TDEE

NSV / LSV = Non Scale Victory / LifeStyle (change) Victory, e.g. compliment, smaller waist, clothes size

SV = Scale Victory

TDEE = Total Daily Energy Expenditure, the average number of calories you burn in a day, is calculated (see calculators below) from your current weight, height, age, activity level.
Aim to average about this for NFDs.

WOE / WOL = Way Of Eating / Way Of Life. We say this instead of "diet", to emphasise that we must make a permanent change in how we eat, to mainitain our new healthy weight longterm.

HOW TO START

. Take initial measurements: weight, waist, hips
. Use TDEE calculator below if you need a rough guide to how much to eat on NFDs
. Choose any 2 days for FDs, non-consecutive is easier.
. Before each FD: plan, shop & calorie count ALL food & drink for the day

Useful Resources & Calculators

Calorie Counter: mfp
Rough Calories for NFD: Mosely TDEE Calc (exercisers: set activity level to one below what you think)
BMI: Calc
Body Frame Size: Calc
Goal Weight For BodyFrame
Calc
Body Fat: BFat Calc
Choose / Visualise Goal Weight:
3D BMI body types ripped to normal
Bod Vis Measurements & 3D rotate]]

Safe Alcohol Calc: Calc Units Cals

FD Recipes:
Mosely LowCarb , low carb Diet Doc
BBC Good Food 52 , BBC Good Food 500 cal meals ,
Good2Know , Foodie Under 200 Cals
Vegetarian ,

FD Ready Meals, Fast Food

Any Day:
Meal Planner

FAQs / Tips

  • WATER: Start each day with a glass of water; and drink plenty during the day.
  • HOT DRINKS: No limits on tea or coffee, but on FDs count any milk / sugar calories.
  • SLEEP: Try to get enough sleep, or it may slow weight loss.
  • EXERCISE: is healthy & can help weight loss - BUT only if you do NOT eat back less than you burn. Fasted training can burn more fat.
HIIT and resistance training both work well with 5:2/IF.
  • FDs: If possible, choose days when you are busy, but not preparing meals for others.
Concentrate on protein & veg; avoid sugar or fruit juice. e.g. Stir-fries, soups & stews. Ready meals are OK.
  • BFers: start with 1000-cal FDs, optionally reduce to 700 cals gradually.
You can return to 1000 if growth spurts or sleep-deprivation require more fuel.
  • NFDs: No rules, but to improve health, try to cut down on added sugar & junk food, keep alcohol within safe limits. A few treats per week are fine.
  • Do NOT fast: if you've ever had EDs, or if pregnant, under 21, over-stressed, fever, stomach bug, even a bad cold.
  • CHECK with your Doctor: if you have diabetes, any other endocrine condition, any serious past or present medical condition, or if taking ANY prescribed medication (fasting may affect absorption rate)

Scientific Evidence for Fasting & Health

BBC article on the original Horizon program

Telegraph comments on 5:2 and gives a brief overview by Dr Mosley, useful for newbies.

This InterviewPart1 and InterviewPart2 with leading ADF researcher Dr Varady explains why fasting helps you to lose weight AND improves some health markers.

Fasting boosts "autophagy" = recycling of old cells
Yoshinori Ohsumi won the 2016 Nobel prize for Medicine for research into autophagy
NOBEL Lecture “Autophagy – An Intracellular Recycling System”

Prof. R Taylor (Newcastle Uni) won the 2013 Diabetes UK Banting Prize for his Twin Cycle Hypothesis re the cause of type 2 diabetes: Twin Cycle Hypothesis T2
and showed a fasting diet could reverse T2

Dr Michelle Harvie (funded by cancer charities) showed possible benefits of intermittent fasting compared to standard daily calorie reduction in her trials (consecutive FDs) with women at high risk of breast cancer: ComparingDiets , EarlierResearch52

Dr Johnson showed intermittent fasting helped Asthma

HORMESIS & Why Intermittent Fasting Works: Mattson , BlackSwan and Hormesis

Molecular Mechanisms and Clinical Applications: J CellMetabolism
Recent research into the health benefits of fasting: e.g. by world-respected neuroscientist Dr MarkMattson (Mosely referred to his research) showed:

. Improved glucose regulation
. Loss of abdominal fat with maintenance of muscle mass
. Reduced blood pressure and heart rate
. Improved learning and memory and motor function
. Protection of neurons in the brain against dysfunction and degeneration in animal models of Alzheimer’s disease, Parkinson’s disease, stroke and Huntington’s disease.

Brain metabolism in health, aging, andneurodegeneration :
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

He compared 5:2 to ordinary daily diets on overweight women with family history of breast cancer.
Fasting group lost more belly fat, retained more muscle & had slightly better blood sugar regulation.

More of his research is in HealthyAging , Health , AvoidParkinsonsDisease

His article in J Aging Mech Disease 2015 explains the health benefits of intermittent fasting in great scientific detail.

Why intermittent fasting and stopping snacking can lower your risk of serious diseases:
Meal frequency and timing in health and disease

Fasting can help maintain brain health during aging:
emboj.embopress.org/content/36/11/1474
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

This interview with leading researchers into fasting in combination with standard cancer treatment: ScientificDiscussion MoselyMattsonLongo and a LongoInterview

NY Times Fasting Overview

Research by other US and European scientists in this DailyTelegraph Article about the medicinal uses of fasting, for many serious conditions & diseases.

Recent trials with Type 2 diabetics and those at risk of having it used a form of daily fasting - skipping supper.
Their conclusions: eating 1-2 meals per day is better than several small meals for losing weight and controlling insulin levels, see Type2Paper

OP posts:
Thread gallery
13
KylieKoKo · 29/09/2020 20:37

Thanks @BigChocFrenzy

I do tend to reward myself with food and wine but that's something I need to stop doing.

MadauntofA · 29/09/2020 21:58

Well done Kylie!
Closed the kitchen earlier on 750, so managed a b2b. Not as bad as o thought it would be, so more flexibility for those crazy week. Really looking forward to breakfast TomorrowGrin

FlyingByTheSeatof · 29/09/2020 22:07

Well done @KylieKoKo

BigChocFrenzy · 29/09/2020 23:05

Well done on nailing your 1st b2b, MadAunt
Most people can't do them, good for you
They do add more options

OP posts:
Beautiful3 · 30/09/2020 10:37

Hi everyone, I've delayed my fast days because I've been hit with a stinking cold! As a result I haven't been eating properly. Eek! Today I feel alot better so will attempt a fast day. Good luck Wednesday fasters!

BigChocFrenzy · 30/09/2020 10:49

I'm glad your nasty cold is better, beaut
Good luck today
Allow yourself 800 cals if you feel the need for an extra soup to soothe your throat, or just because of extra hunger due to recovery

OP posts:
Beautiful3 · 30/09/2020 18:04

Thanks Bigchoc. Kitchen closed at 546.

BigChocFrenzy · 30/09/2020 23:35

Well done on nailing your FD, Beaut

OP posts:
FlyingByTheSeatof · 01/10/2020 09:01

Well done @Beautiful3

I've had a couple of NFD and yesterday I had my first pizza in months. I was a bit excited about getting some good news. I refrained from any alcohol though because otherwise my food choices would been all over the shop.

So today will be a FD.

I tell you what though I don't cringe in horror now when I catch myself in the mirror when I'm out and about which is really nice

ilovebagpuss · 01/10/2020 09:53

Morning all Thursday fasting ready to go with some homemade soup and maybe some noodles and veg later.
It’s quite hard fasting while working from home I am usually out and about so can take my mind off rumblings.
I’m impressed at the B2b fasting @MadauntofA.
I know what you mean about mirrors @FlyingByTheSeatof congrats on your change - I have to go in a lift at work some days and it’s fully mirrored I hate looking at myself.

Beautiful3 · 01/10/2020 10:50

Thanks BigChoc and Flying. Trying to do another one today, I usually do 3 back to back. Although I have a feeling that I'm going to go over today ,as I may want extra drinks and soup. Well done Flying, all your hard works paying off. It's a nice feeling to see your body slim down.

Waspie · 01/10/2020 10:51

I'm joining you FlyingByTheSeatof and ilovebagpuss in a fast day today. Black coffee and water for me so far. I won't have time for lunch so I'm planning to have a single meal late afternoon/early evening instead.

Good luck fellow fasters Flowers

BigChocFrenzy · 01/10/2020 11:59

Good luck today, Flying, bagpuss, beaut, Waspie

PLEASE don't be ashamed when you look in the mirror
Your weight says absolutely nothing about your worth

If you need an encouraging 5:2 mantra for mirrors:

"This is the bad ass that is rocking to goal"

OP posts:
BigChocFrenzy · 01/10/2020 12:00

and do avoid the spiteful fat-hating threads
They are not started by nice people you'd want to meet

OP posts:
Beautiful3 · 01/10/2020 12:24

Well said BigChoc Smile

UntilYourNextHairBrainedScheme · 01/10/2020 13:25

Hello!
Can I join you please? Ive been doing intermittent fasting (time limited eating/ fasting) since the middle of July using 16:8/ 18:6/ 20/4 (so a certain number of fasted/ eating hours per day) and have lost 27 lb so far (I am in the obese category to start to put that into context!).

My weight loss is slowing (as expected obviously) and I only lost 2lb over the last two weeks. Additionally I've just got blood test results back indicating fatty liver so the pressure to lose weight for health is really on!

As a conequence of those two things I'm going to add 5:2 into the 16:8/ 18:6 mix. Hopefully they'll complement each other and get things ticking along again - because my start weight is high I really want to be averaging around a 2lb a week loss!

No time like the present so I'm starting today - I've had 2 black coffees, a ginger tea and lots of water. I'll have a big jacket potato with tuna and sweetcorn mayonnaise for my 500 calorie dinner. Yesterday was DH's birthday and we both had the day off and celebrated with cooked breakfast/ brunch and a big dinner with cake in between, so today is a good day to start!

I've just been reading the most recent posts and it sounds as though you're all doing really well! Glad to read people do back to back fast days as I work varied shift patterns which will often make back to back the only practical option.

FlyingByTheSeatof · 01/10/2020 16:09

Good luck fellow fasters today.

Yes @ilovebagpuss it was the bloody mirrors in the lift I was force to look at myself, also work related.

@Beautiful3 three b2b that's dedication but also I think easier to focus on.

Thanks @BigChocFrenzy we need to remind ourselves of that sometimes

I had a bit of a long catch up nap today so I havent actually had anything yet other than tea and coffee. I've baked some veggies and chicken in the oven though for when I'm hungry and ready to eat later. Not hungry at all yet, still full of last nights food I guess.

So the good news is I'll be working where I have decided I now want to be. I've had some time off as lots of us have I guess of late. I'll be on my feet a lot more soon so losing weight now will help with that and also the extra exercise should help move excess weight quicker and I'll be able to function on my new WOE / WOL.

BigChocFrenzy · 01/10/2020 19:08

Welcome, Until 🙂
and congratulations on your SV with IF so far

5:2 works well with 16:8 and the calories deficit of the 2 FDs should give the weight loss boost you want,
while allowing you to relax around TDEE on the 5 NFDs
The higher cal NFDs and the contrast to the FDs helps keep your metabolic rate revved up

Main tip:
No snacking between meals

That's excellent news about work, Flying that should make your life easier

OP posts:
Bottl · 01/10/2020 19:33

Hello everyone,
I've been on and off these threads for years (recently name changed). I had great success on 5:2 5 years ago but for various reasons all the weight has crept back on.
Life is a bit calmer now and it's time to take back some control and get back on the 5:2 wagon.
Tomorrow will be my first FD

Beautiful3 · 01/10/2020 20:34

Welcome Until and Bottl. Well done flying, sounds like a good day today. Kitchen closed at 693. Went over because I seemed to need extra warm drinks. Going to try a third fast day tomorrow. Well done Thursday fasters and good luck Friday fasters!

FlyingByTheSeatof · 01/10/2020 23:16

Welcome newbies :)

Kitchen closed at 465.

FlyingByTheSeatof · 01/10/2020 23:18

@Beautiful3 I'll be joining you to attempt another FD tomorrow

FlyingByTheSeatof · 01/10/2020 23:19

Ooops kitchen closed at 490 forgot to add 5 florets of broccoli :)

BigChocFrenzy · 01/10/2020 23:47

Welcome back, Bottl

Well done on your FD, Flying, Beaut

OP posts:
MadauntofA · 02/10/2020 08:57

Hi Until and Bottl, it's a good supportive group here with quite a few of us doing well on this WOL and the fabulous Bigchoc guiding us along.
I agree that mirrors can be evil - one positive about this current situation is that changing rooms are closed!!

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