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Fasting / 5:2 diet

Talk about intermittent fasting and 5:2, including what’s worked for others. Mumsnet hasn't checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. You may wish to speak to a medical professional before starting any diet.

5:2 Thread number 92: Don’t train to be skinny Train to be a lean bad ass. Come join the bad asses

999 replies

BigChocFrenzy · 06/08/2020 15:19

Welcome to the continuing thread for those following 5:2 or other forms of IF (Intermittent Fasting) such as 4:3, ADF, or daily 16:8 Smile

The 5:2 diet was introduced by Michael Mosely on BBC Horizon on August 2012:

Basically it is 2 very low cal days ("fasts") per week - which need not be consecutive - and eat "normally" to maintain on the other 5 days.

For those who have dieted or maybe overeaten for years, eating "normally"
means roughly the number of calories your body needs to maintain - NOT reduce - its weight (see TDEE calculator below).

IMPORTANT
If you have had past diagnosed Eating Disorders or serious MH problems you should NOT do 5:2 or any other kind of fasting

ACRONYMS

16:8 is a different type of fasting, which can be combined with 5:2.
Daily zero-cal fast for 16 hours and eat within an 8 hour window. To lose weight, this needs a weekly calorie deficit as well

4:3 = fast on 3 non-consecutive days per week

ADF (Alternate-Day Fasting) = fast every other day

b2b (optional) back-to-back / consecutive fast days, each with an increased allowance of 650 calories instead of 500

BMI (Body Mass Index) healthy range is 18.5 - 24.9 for Caucasians. Upper limit may be 22 for some of Asian origin.

FD = single Fast Day: aim for 500 calories (600 for men or 25% TDEE whichever is higher) or 1000 cals for BF
No alcohol or junk on FDs
Even if you exercise strenuously, do NOT increase FD cals to allow for exercise

MFP = My Fitness Pal, a useful App or website to track food & drink calories

miniFD = MiniFD, 850- 1000 calories, no alcohol or junk

NFD = Non-Fast Day, averages around TDEE

NSV / LSV = Non Scale Victory / LifeStyle (change) Victory, e.g. compliment, smaller waist, clothes size

SV = Scale Victory

TDEE = Total Daily Energy Expenditure, the average number of calories you burn in a day, is calculated (see calculators below) from your current weight, height, age, activity level.
Aim to average about this for NFDs.

WOE / WOL = Way Of Eating / Way Of Life. We say this instead of "diet", to emphasise that we must make a permanent change in how we eat, to mainitain our new healthy weight longterm.

HOW TO START

. Take initial measurements: weight, waist, hips
. Use TDEE calculator below if you need a rough guide to how much to eat on NFDs
. Choose any 2 days for FDs, non-consecutive is easier.
. Before each FD: plan, shop & calorie count ALL food & drink for the day

Useful Resources & Calculators

Calorie Counter: mfp
Rough Calories for NFD: Mosely TDEE Calc (exercisers: set activity level to one below what you think)
BMI: Calc
Body Frame Size: Calc
Goal Weight For BodyFrame
Calc
Body Fat: BFat Calc
Choose / Visualise Goal Weight:
3D BMI body types ripped to normal
Bod Vis Measurements & 3D rotate]]

Safe Alcohol Calc: Calc Units Cals

FD Recipes:
Mosely LowCarb , low carb Diet Doc
BBC Good Food 52 , BBC Good Food 500 cal meals ,
Good2Know , Foodie Under 200 Cals
Vegetarian ,

FD Ready Meals, Fast Food

Any Day:
Meal Planner

FAQs / Tips

  • WATER: Start each day with a glass of water; and drink plenty during the day.
  • HOT DRINKS: No limits on tea or coffee, but on FDs count any milk / sugar calories.
  • SLEEP: Try to get enough sleep, or it may slow weight loss.
  • EXERCISE: is healthy & can help weight loss - BUT only if you do NOT eat back less than you burn. Fasted training can burn more fat.
HIIT and resistance training both work well with 5:2/IF.
  • FDs: If possible, choose days when you are busy, but not preparing meals for others.
Concentrate on protein & veg; avoid sugar or fruit juice. e.g. Stir-fries, soups & stews. Ready meals are OK.
  • BFers: start with 1000-cal FDs, optionally reduce to 700 cals gradually.
You can return to 1000 if growth spurts or sleep-deprivation require more fuel.
  • NFDs: No rules, but to improve health, try to cut down on added sugar & junk food, keep alcohol within safe limits. A few treats per week are fine.
  • Do NOT fast: if you've ever had EDs, or if pregnant, under 21, over-stressed, fever, stomach bug, even a bad cold.
  • CHECK with your Doctor: if you have diabetes, any other endocrine condition, any serious past or present medical condition, or if taking ANY prescribed medication (fasting may affect absorption rate)

Scientific Evidence for Fasting & Health

BBC article on the original Horizon program

Telegraph comments on 5:2 and gives a brief overview by Dr Mosley, useful for newbies.

This InterviewPart1 and InterviewPart2 with leading ADF researcher Dr Varady explains why fasting helps you to lose weight AND improves some health markers.

Fasting boosts "autophagy" = recycling of old cells
Yoshinori Ohsumi won the 2016 Nobel prize for Medicine for research into autophagy
NOBEL Lecture “Autophagy – An Intracellular Recycling System”

Prof. R Taylor (Newcastle Uni) won the 2013 Diabetes UK Banting Prize for his Twin Cycle Hypothesis re the cause of type 2 diabetes: Twin Cycle Hypothesis T2
and showed a fasting diet could reverse T2

Dr Michelle Harvie (funded by cancer charities) showed possible benefits of intermittent fasting compared to standard daily calorie reduction in her trials (consecutive FDs) with women at high risk of breast cancer: ComparingDiets , EarlierResearch52

Dr Johnson showed intermittent fasting helped Asthma

HORMESIS & Why Intermittent Fasting Works: Mattson , BlackSwan and Hormesis

Molecular Mechanisms and Clinical Applications: J CellMetabolism
Recent research into the health benefits of fasting: e.g. by world-respected neuroscientist Dr MarkMattson (Mosely referred to his research) showed:

. Improved glucose regulation
. Loss of abdominal fat with maintenance of muscle mass
. Reduced blood pressure and heart rate
. Improved learning and memory and motor function
. Protection of neurons in the brain against dysfunction and degeneration in animal models of Alzheimer’s disease, Parkinson’s disease, stroke and Huntington’s disease.

Brain metabolism in health, aging, andneurodegeneration :
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

He compared 5:2 to ordinary daily diets on overweight women with family history of breast cancer.
Fasting group lost more belly fat, retained more muscle & had slightly better blood sugar regulation.

More of his research is in HealthyAging , Health , AvoidParkinsonsDisease

His article in J Aging Mech Disease 2015 explains the health benefits of intermittent fasting in great scientific detail.

Why intermittent fasting and stopping snacking can lower your risk of serious diseases:
Meal frequency and timing in health and disease

Fasting can help maintain brain health during aging:
emboj.embopress.org/content/36/11/1474
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

This interview with leading researchers into fasting in combination with standard cancer treatment: ScientificDiscussion MoselyMattsonLongo and a LongoInterview

NY Times Fasting Overview

Research by other US and European scientists in this DailyTelegraph Article about the medicinal uses of fasting, for many serious conditions & diseases.

Recent trials with Type 2 diabetics and those at risk of having it used a form of daily fasting - skipping supper.
Their conclusions: eating 1-2 meals per day is better than several small meals for losing weight and controlling insulin levels, see Type2Paper

OP posts:
Thread gallery
13
BigChocFrenzy · 27/09/2020 16:54

Kylie Some people on 5:2 prefer b2b (what we call back to back FDs) fasting to get it out of the way at the beginning of the week;
others find it impossible.

What helps: you get a higher calorie allowance, of 1300 cals for the 2 days,
which can be either 650 per day,
or have more on the 2nd day (because you start FD2 already fasted)
e.g. FD1 = 500 cals + FD2 = 800 cals

I suggest you try:
So Monday on 500 or 650 cals, but if Tuesday gets too tough, then don't worry:
just segue into a healthy miniFD (800-1000 cals) or NFD, i.e. no junk or booze

Weight loss is a process over several weeks;
in the long run, one week with only 1 FD will not be noticeable later on

OP posts:
KylieKoKo · 27/09/2020 18:32

Thanks @bigchocfrenzy

I'll definitely fast tomorrow and see how I feel on Tuesday.

FlyingByTheSeatof · 27/09/2020 18:35

Just do the best you can @KylieKoKo but make sure you enjoy the time with your family foremost.

KylieKoKo · 27/09/2020 19:36

Thanks @FlyingByTheSeatof

MadauntofA · 27/09/2020 21:21

I'm fasting tomorrow, and might join you for a 800 day Tuesday Kylie. Not done a b2b properly before so will see how I go as it adds more flexibility for those busy weeks if I don't find it too bad.

BigChocFrenzy · 28/09/2020 08:36

Good luck on your FD today, MadAunt, Kylie and any other Monday fasters

I'm fasting today too, a maintenance miniFD
I've had my morning black coffee and I'm off shortly (well-wrapped up) for my usual Rhine walk; it's sunny but nippy too
Double spin classes this evening, so I'll make a late lunch my main meal

OP posts:
FlyingByTheSeatof · 28/09/2020 08:49

Good luck @KylieKoKo @MadauntofA and @BigChocFrenzy on your FD today which I'll be joining you on. Just having my first cup of tea of the day. I've been drinking a lot of Jasmine tea recently which requires no milk as you know.
I'll be eating one of my small but perfectly formed apples from my tree later. I've had a mini harvest of them which has given me great joy.

KylieKoKo · 28/09/2020 10:07

Thanks all. I've had my black coffee and will have miso soup and salad at some point this afternoon.

I also have a HIIT class later on.

FlyingByTheSeatof · 28/09/2020 11:13

I'm currently having a 2 slice bacon 2 egg omelette and coffee.

BigChocFrenzy · 28/09/2020 12:22

Good luck, Flying
Food you've grown yourself is especially to be savoured

OP posts:
MadauntofA · 28/09/2020 12:40

I absolutely love apples Flying, and homegrown ones are especially good!
We have blueberry bushes, and they taste much better than any shop bought ones.
For those who love miso soup, has anyone tried this one - it is absolutely delicious, with a hint of peanut flavouring, and a good chilli kick to warm you up in the winter!

5:2 Thread number 92: Don’t train to be skinny Train to be a lean bad ass. Come join the bad asses
FlyingByTheSeatof · 28/09/2020 13:01

Love that you have blueberry bushes @MadauntofA Everything I try to grow on or in the ground gets eaten by wildlife of some sort.

The miso looks good. I just have a pot of it and use a teaspoon or so of paste at a time.

KylieKoKo · 28/09/2020 18:22

I'd love some bacon right now @flyingbytheseatof

But spicy prawn and Pak choi soup for me.

I've decided against back to back fasting as I'm due on my period and have been pretty hungry today. I don't think I can face doing it again tomorrow!

FlyingByTheSeatof · 28/09/2020 18:28

I derailed earlier but am still under 800 so I'll take that.

MadauntofA · 28/09/2020 18:37

Well done Kylie and Flying. I'm done here at 540, and will see how I get on tomorrow as should have about 740 to make it a b2b.

Coffeeandcookies · 28/09/2020 18:42

I'm with you Flying, started well with my FD today, but a late change of plan for dinner has resulted in me ending up on 780 calories rather than the 540 I had planned.

Nevertheless, positives are that I'm still under 800 calories and I have logged everything I had so haven't tried to hide any calories and pretend they didn't count!

And another positive is that I've managed to get all birthday cake and birthday treats eaten by other people in my house, so no temptation remains! Grin

ilovebagpuss · 28/09/2020 19:32

Hello Monday fasters very greedy weekend here as an old friend came to visit. With more and more restrictions it could be the last visit for a while so we did enjoy it. She is also a faster so we both agreed even if we don’t loose this week we won’t gain anything fingers crossed.
Thin bagel for lunch and field mushrooms on a slice of toast for dinner. Nice and simple.
I have never tried miso soup @MadauntofA will have to buy some and give it a go.

BigChocFrenzy · 28/09/2020 21:26

Well done, kylie, flying, bagpuss, MadAunt, Coffee

That's handy you have a fasting friend, bagpuss

OP posts:
ilovebagpuss · 29/09/2020 08:15

@BigChocFrenzy morning! Yes it’s nice to have someone I know and can also text during the day for solidarity Grin
Hope the Tuesday fasters have a good day.

MadauntofA · 29/09/2020 08:26

I'm on 2nd day b2b, surprisingly full of energy! Who's joining me today?

moonlight1705 · 29/09/2020 09:58

Morning, I'm joining in today. Got a busy day at work so it should take my mind off food nicely although tea will be consumed by the bucket.

I've got blueberries too madaunt and it is lovely to pick them fresh we also have strawberries and raspberries, my DD was most unhappy when we cut down the canes as she has learnt how to pick them. Not sure she gets the concept of next year yet.

BigChocFrenzy · 29/09/2020 10:52

Good luck, MadAunt, Moonlight and any other Tuesday fasters
Your very own fresh blueberries - sounds amazing

OP posts:
KylieKoKo · 29/09/2020 11:14

I have exciting news!

When I weighed myself this morning I had broken the 170 llb barrier and was a svelte 169.2 llb. Still not great at 5 foot 3 and a half but going in the right direction - I was 174.4llb when I started.

My first goal is to get down to 160 llbs, which is what I was in March before I spent 5 months being completely sedentary and eating vast amounts of crap. I was quite shocked to gain so much in such a short time!

BigChocFrenzy · 29/09/2020 18:49

Congratulations on your SV, Kylie and smashing your 1st milestone

It helps to divide up your end goal into several minigoals of 5lb, 5kg, 1 stone etc
with non-food rewards at each - new lipstick, nails, music, film etc - and something special when you drop into a lower BMI class

OP posts:
BigChocFrenzy · 29/09/2020 18:50

Many 5:2ers find when they reach their initial goal that they can comfortably go further towards where they would really like to be, but had thought no longer feasible.

OP posts: