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Fasting / 5:2 diet

Talk about intermittent fasting and 5:2, including what’s worked for others. Mumsnet hasn't checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. You may wish to speak to a medical professional before starting any diet.

5:2 Thread number 92: Don’t train to be skinny Train to be a lean bad ass. Come join the bad asses

999 replies

BigChocFrenzy · 06/08/2020 15:19

Welcome to the continuing thread for those following 5:2 or other forms of IF (Intermittent Fasting) such as 4:3, ADF, or daily 16:8 Smile

The 5:2 diet was introduced by Michael Mosely on BBC Horizon on August 2012:

Basically it is 2 very low cal days ("fasts") per week - which need not be consecutive - and eat "normally" to maintain on the other 5 days.

For those who have dieted or maybe overeaten for years, eating "normally"
means roughly the number of calories your body needs to maintain - NOT reduce - its weight (see TDEE calculator below).

IMPORTANT
If you have had past diagnosed Eating Disorders or serious MH problems you should NOT do 5:2 or any other kind of fasting

ACRONYMS

16:8 is a different type of fasting, which can be combined with 5:2.
Daily zero-cal fast for 16 hours and eat within an 8 hour window. To lose weight, this needs a weekly calorie deficit as well

4:3 = fast on 3 non-consecutive days per week

ADF (Alternate-Day Fasting) = fast every other day

b2b (optional) back-to-back / consecutive fast days, each with an increased allowance of 650 calories instead of 500

BMI (Body Mass Index) healthy range is 18.5 - 24.9 for Caucasians. Upper limit may be 22 for some of Asian origin.

FD = single Fast Day: aim for 500 calories (600 for men or 25% TDEE whichever is higher) or 1000 cals for BF
No alcohol or junk on FDs
Even if you exercise strenuously, do NOT increase FD cals to allow for exercise

MFP = My Fitness Pal, a useful App or website to track food & drink calories

miniFD = MiniFD, 850- 1000 calories, no alcohol or junk

NFD = Non-Fast Day, averages around TDEE

NSV / LSV = Non Scale Victory / LifeStyle (change) Victory, e.g. compliment, smaller waist, clothes size

SV = Scale Victory

TDEE = Total Daily Energy Expenditure, the average number of calories you burn in a day, is calculated (see calculators below) from your current weight, height, age, activity level.
Aim to average about this for NFDs.

WOE / WOL = Way Of Eating / Way Of Life. We say this instead of "diet", to emphasise that we must make a permanent change in how we eat, to mainitain our new healthy weight longterm.

HOW TO START

. Take initial measurements: weight, waist, hips
. Use TDEE calculator below if you need a rough guide to how much to eat on NFDs
. Choose any 2 days for FDs, non-consecutive is easier.
. Before each FD: plan, shop & calorie count ALL food & drink for the day

Useful Resources & Calculators

Calorie Counter: mfp
Rough Calories for NFD: Mosely TDEE Calc (exercisers: set activity level to one below what you think)
BMI: Calc
Body Frame Size: Calc
Goal Weight For BodyFrame
Calc
Body Fat: BFat Calc
Choose / Visualise Goal Weight:
3D BMI body types ripped to normal
Bod Vis Measurements & 3D rotate]]

Safe Alcohol Calc: Calc Units Cals

FD Recipes:
Mosely LowCarb , low carb Diet Doc
BBC Good Food 52 , BBC Good Food 500 cal meals ,
Good2Know , Foodie Under 200 Cals
Vegetarian ,

FD Ready Meals, Fast Food

Any Day:
Meal Planner

FAQs / Tips

  • WATER: Start each day with a glass of water; and drink plenty during the day.
  • HOT DRINKS: No limits on tea or coffee, but on FDs count any milk / sugar calories.
  • SLEEP: Try to get enough sleep, or it may slow weight loss.
  • EXERCISE: is healthy & can help weight loss - BUT only if you do NOT eat back less than you burn. Fasted training can burn more fat.
HIIT and resistance training both work well with 5:2/IF.
  • FDs: If possible, choose days when you are busy, but not preparing meals for others.
Concentrate on protein & veg; avoid sugar or fruit juice. e.g. Stir-fries, soups & stews. Ready meals are OK.
  • BFers: start with 1000-cal FDs, optionally reduce to 700 cals gradually.
You can return to 1000 if growth spurts or sleep-deprivation require more fuel.
  • NFDs: No rules, but to improve health, try to cut down on added sugar & junk food, keep alcohol within safe limits. A few treats per week are fine.
  • Do NOT fast: if you've ever had EDs, or if pregnant, under 21, over-stressed, fever, stomach bug, even a bad cold.
  • CHECK with your Doctor: if you have diabetes, any other endocrine condition, any serious past or present medical condition, or if taking ANY prescribed medication (fasting may affect absorption rate)

Scientific Evidence for Fasting & Health

BBC article on the original Horizon program

Telegraph comments on 5:2 and gives a brief overview by Dr Mosley, useful for newbies.

This InterviewPart1 and InterviewPart2 with leading ADF researcher Dr Varady explains why fasting helps you to lose weight AND improves some health markers.

Fasting boosts "autophagy" = recycling of old cells
Yoshinori Ohsumi won the 2016 Nobel prize for Medicine for research into autophagy
NOBEL Lecture “Autophagy – An Intracellular Recycling System”

Prof. R Taylor (Newcastle Uni) won the 2013 Diabetes UK Banting Prize for his Twin Cycle Hypothesis re the cause of type 2 diabetes: Twin Cycle Hypothesis T2
and showed a fasting diet could reverse T2

Dr Michelle Harvie (funded by cancer charities) showed possible benefits of intermittent fasting compared to standard daily calorie reduction in her trials (consecutive FDs) with women at high risk of breast cancer: ComparingDiets , EarlierResearch52

Dr Johnson showed intermittent fasting helped Asthma

HORMESIS & Why Intermittent Fasting Works: Mattson , BlackSwan and Hormesis

Molecular Mechanisms and Clinical Applications: J CellMetabolism
Recent research into the health benefits of fasting: e.g. by world-respected neuroscientist Dr MarkMattson (Mosely referred to his research) showed:

. Improved glucose regulation
. Loss of abdominal fat with maintenance of muscle mass
. Reduced blood pressure and heart rate
. Improved learning and memory and motor function
. Protection of neurons in the brain against dysfunction and degeneration in animal models of Alzheimer’s disease, Parkinson’s disease, stroke and Huntington’s disease.

Brain metabolism in health, aging, andneurodegeneration :
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

He compared 5:2 to ordinary daily diets on overweight women with family history of breast cancer.
Fasting group lost more belly fat, retained more muscle & had slightly better blood sugar regulation.

More of his research is in HealthyAging , Health , AvoidParkinsonsDisease

His article in J Aging Mech Disease 2015 explains the health benefits of intermittent fasting in great scientific detail.

Why intermittent fasting and stopping snacking can lower your risk of serious diseases:
Meal frequency and timing in health and disease

Fasting can help maintain brain health during aging:
emboj.embopress.org/content/36/11/1474
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

This interview with leading researchers into fasting in combination with standard cancer treatment: ScientificDiscussion MoselyMattsonLongo and a LongoInterview

NY Times Fasting Overview

Research by other US and European scientists in this DailyTelegraph Article about the medicinal uses of fasting, for many serious conditions & diseases.

Recent trials with Type 2 diabetics and those at risk of having it used a form of daily fasting - skipping supper.
Their conclusions: eating 1-2 meals per day is better than several small meals for losing weight and controlling insulin levels, see Type2Paper

OP posts:
Thread gallery
13
KylieKoKo · 25/09/2020 09:46

I had my third post fast weigh in and am now 4.2 llbs down from when I started!

BigChocFrenzy · 25/09/2020 12:01

Congratulations on your SV, Kylie
Good start

That's excellent news you are fit again, Moonlight and also had a healthy TLC week
Good luck on your FD today

OP posts:
FlyingByTheSeatof · 25/09/2020 15:05

Well done at @KylieKoKo and glad you're feeling better @moonlight1705

Whattodowithaminute · 25/09/2020 17:30

Well done bagpuss and kylie and glad you’re feeling better moonlight, 3rd FD here this week but might just be a mini after dinner calories tonight... feeling energised and positive

moonlight1705 · 25/09/2020 19:34

Well it ended up being more of a mini (813).

My daughter's nursery phoned and said she had a temperature so I had to quickly go off work and pick her up. We've now got to go and get a test tomorrow before the doctor will check if she's got something much more likely such as an ear infection.

Wish us luck holding down a very strong 19 month old. Confused

BigChocFrenzy · 25/09/2020 21:28

Well done, moonlight
on a very stressful day for you
I hope all goes well tomorrow

OP posts:
MadauntofA · 26/09/2020 07:30

I hope minimoon is ok and you don't have to trek too far for a test

Coffeeandcookies · 26/09/2020 09:18

Sorry to hear your daughter is poorly moonlight, good luck with the test today.

Coffeeandcookies · 26/09/2020 09:25

Had a FD which ended up being a mini-FD on Thursday, blaming it on the arrival of my period and the associated munchies. Stayed below 800 calories though, so want a wipeout.

Challenging weekend ahead in Casa Coffee - two birthdays to celebrate, going for lunch out with friends today and a group of young people coming for a pizza party this evening. Did extra training yesterday to try to offset some of the calories.

I solemnly do swear to all my fasting colleagues in this lovely thread that I am only permitting myself one small slice of one of the birthday cakes and will limit my pizza intake - I promise!

BigChocFrenzy · 26/09/2020 10:13

Well done on keeping to your FD, Coffee

  • up to 800 cals counts as an FD on MM's gentler scheme and I think we can regard them as totm FDs Wink
MiniFDs are 800-1000 cals

Your pizza promises have been noted down and we will all expect a report by Monday morning Grin
The 5:2 spy drone will be hovering over you to observe ! 🛰
Enjoy your weekend, sounds lovely

Autumn weather abruptly began yesterday with a temperature drop of 10C and the forecast is for 2 weeks plus of well below 20C with only occasional sun < shivers >
so I've been digging out all my trousers & long sleeves

OP posts:
Waspie · 26/09/2020 11:13

I hope your daughter is feeling better soon moonlight.

It's getting chilly here too BCF. Autumn has certainly landed with a bump!

I've been keeping up with my usual Monday and Thursday FDs and I have news: I weighted myself this morning and I have lost a total of 15.4kg since I begin 7 months ago Grin 15KG was my original target when I first started so I'm really happy to have got there. I'm not stopping and I've set another target of 7Kg.

Good luck to those fasting this weekend Brew

Waspie · 26/09/2020 11:14

begin = began (apologies for my awful typing)

MadauntofA · 26/09/2020 11:35

That's fantastic progress Waspie! Onwards and downwards Grin

moonlight1705 · 26/09/2020 11:49

Wow waspie that is so good. Well done.

I weighed after two weeks and have lost 1kg in that time. I'm still within the centre kg that I bounce around so I will see how the next two weeks go.

Minimoon did well at the test, since she is young then we didn't have to do a throat swab, just in the nose. She's still got a fever though so back to the doctor to see if they will finally diagnose her.

BigChocFrenzy · 26/09/2020 11:49

Congratulations on your SV, Waspie and on exceeding your original target
Fab achievement, shows how it all adds up when you are patient and settle in for the long haul
Many 5:2ers find at their original goal that they can comfortably move to an even more ambitious one

OP posts:
BigChocFrenzy · 26/09/2020 11:53

Well done on your SV too, moonlight

Oscillating over the same kg are the classic signs of eating back the FD deficit on the NFDs,

so I recommend you monitor those
and make sure you don't snack between meals; also review the portion & frequency of treats you have as part of meals

You don't have to mfp if that bothers you, but note down everything you eat or drink - before you consume it, because monitoring in itself helps modify NFD habits

OP posts:
FlyingByTheSeatof · 26/09/2020 13:25

Well done @Waspie that's brilliant
Hope minimoon gets better soon @moonlight1705

I had 2 mini fast days Thursday and Friday brought up to 1000 by sweet treats Hmm
My food shops been delivered so I'm roasting some veggies. I need to make up for last weekends blowout which spiralled slightly into the rest of the week so I need to get a grip before I next weigh myself next week

Waspie · 26/09/2020 13:32

Thank you all, especially you BCF. The advice and support received on these threads has been so helpful over these months Flowers

MadauntofA GrinGrinGrin

I hope your daughter's fever comes down and she recovers quickly moonlight.

Now I'm going to take the dog to the woods for a lovely long walk and a swim in the lake (for the dog, not for me!)

FlyingByTheSeatof · 26/09/2020 13:36

@BigChocFrenzy I can definitely feel the chill especially now there is less padding as it were.

@Coffeeandcookies that was me last weekend with wine and chips of which I enjoyed and savoured every bit.

Whattodowithaminute · 26/09/2020 16:53

Amazing waspie well done you! Hope you have a good non food reward planned?!! MrD used to be the master of these-is she still about?!!

CrunchyNutNC · 26/09/2020 17:06

Hello everyone, please can I join you?

I'm 22:2 or OMAD most days again, trying to lose about 7lb (put on during lockdown - too many carbs/too much home baking plus much less fasting) and have been IF for a few years with good effect.

Low carb (but not religiously), lots of good fats, colour and variety. I'm in peri-menopause and find hormone fluctuations can be a big challenge.

BigChocFrenzy · 26/09/2020 21:21

Welcome, Crunchy 🙂

I recommend you have 2-3 meals per NFD rather than one
Also try 5:2 so that the FDs provide the calorie deficit - it's fine on an FD just to have one meal, because the calories are so low

OMAD, especially for women, tends not to have good longterm results:

  • It gets people in the habit of much larger meals, which then affects "normal" eating in maintenance and tends to cause quick regain
    Successful longterm weight management is about setting up good habits and retraining bad habits

  • Human studies show that OMAD leads to higher risk of high BP, CVD and other health issues
    This is especially when the single large meal is in the evening, which it nearly always is

  • Male weightlifters may have TDEE of 3000-4000, so one meal gives a huge deficit and rapid loss, hence a much shorter time on OMD
    In contrast, a short woman / with not much to lose may eat her entire TDEE in one meal

OP posts:
Coffeeandcookies · 26/09/2020 22:06

Waspie, fantastic progress, well done!!

Had a lovely day celebrating the first of our two household birthdays this weekend - did keep my promise to you all and only took one small slice of cake (partly because we were eating outside in the garden due to Covid restrictions and I was aware of BigChoc's drone above me!) The good news is that I was able to share all the cake out, so no leftovers to tempt me later.

Another birthday to celebrate tomorrow, so if you don't mind charging the battery on that drone tonight please BigChoc, just to keep me on the straight and narrow! Grin

BigChocFrenzy · 26/09/2020 23:15

Coffee 🛰 It's solar-powered and it is watching you .... 😂
Enjoy the party

OP posts:
KylieKoKo · 27/09/2020 16:43

This week I'm visiting family so I can only fast on Monday and Tuesday. I'm a bit apprehensive about back to back fasting though. Does anyone here do it? If so do you feel ok on it?