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Fasting / 5:2 diet

Talk about intermittent fasting and 5:2, including what’s worked for others. Mumsnet hasn't checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. You may wish to speak to a medical professional before starting any diet.

5:2 Thread number 92: Don’t train to be skinny Train to be a lean bad ass. Come join the bad asses

999 replies

BigChocFrenzy · 06/08/2020 15:19

Welcome to the continuing thread for those following 5:2 or other forms of IF (Intermittent Fasting) such as 4:3, ADF, or daily 16:8 Smile

The 5:2 diet was introduced by Michael Mosely on BBC Horizon on August 2012:

Basically it is 2 very low cal days ("fasts") per week - which need not be consecutive - and eat "normally" to maintain on the other 5 days.

For those who have dieted or maybe overeaten for years, eating "normally"
means roughly the number of calories your body needs to maintain - NOT reduce - its weight (see TDEE calculator below).

IMPORTANT
If you have had past diagnosed Eating Disorders or serious MH problems you should NOT do 5:2 or any other kind of fasting

ACRONYMS

16:8 is a different type of fasting, which can be combined with 5:2.
Daily zero-cal fast for 16 hours and eat within an 8 hour window. To lose weight, this needs a weekly calorie deficit as well

4:3 = fast on 3 non-consecutive days per week

ADF (Alternate-Day Fasting) = fast every other day

b2b (optional) back-to-back / consecutive fast days, each with an increased allowance of 650 calories instead of 500

BMI (Body Mass Index) healthy range is 18.5 - 24.9 for Caucasians. Upper limit may be 22 for some of Asian origin.

FD = single Fast Day: aim for 500 calories (600 for men or 25% TDEE whichever is higher) or 1000 cals for BF
No alcohol or junk on FDs
Even if you exercise strenuously, do NOT increase FD cals to allow for exercise

MFP = My Fitness Pal, a useful App or website to track food & drink calories

miniFD = MiniFD, 850- 1000 calories, no alcohol or junk

NFD = Non-Fast Day, averages around TDEE

NSV / LSV = Non Scale Victory / LifeStyle (change) Victory, e.g. compliment, smaller waist, clothes size

SV = Scale Victory

TDEE = Total Daily Energy Expenditure, the average number of calories you burn in a day, is calculated (see calculators below) from your current weight, height, age, activity level.
Aim to average about this for NFDs.

WOE / WOL = Way Of Eating / Way Of Life. We say this instead of "diet", to emphasise that we must make a permanent change in how we eat, to mainitain our new healthy weight longterm.

HOW TO START

. Take initial measurements: weight, waist, hips
. Use TDEE calculator below if you need a rough guide to how much to eat on NFDs
. Choose any 2 days for FDs, non-consecutive is easier.
. Before each FD: plan, shop & calorie count ALL food & drink for the day

Useful Resources & Calculators

Calorie Counter: mfp
Rough Calories for NFD: Mosely TDEE Calc (exercisers: set activity level to one below what you think)
BMI: Calc
Body Frame Size: Calc
Goal Weight For BodyFrame
Calc
Body Fat: BFat Calc
Choose / Visualise Goal Weight:
3D BMI body types ripped to normal
Bod Vis Measurements & 3D rotate]]

Safe Alcohol Calc: Calc Units Cals

FD Recipes:
Mosely LowCarb , low carb Diet Doc
BBC Good Food 52 , BBC Good Food 500 cal meals ,
Good2Know , Foodie Under 200 Cals
Vegetarian ,

FD Ready Meals, Fast Food

Any Day:
Meal Planner

FAQs / Tips

  • WATER: Start each day with a glass of water; and drink plenty during the day.
  • HOT DRINKS: No limits on tea or coffee, but on FDs count any milk / sugar calories.
  • SLEEP: Try to get enough sleep, or it may slow weight loss.
  • EXERCISE: is healthy & can help weight loss - BUT only if you do NOT eat back less than you burn. Fasted training can burn more fat.
HIIT and resistance training both work well with 5:2/IF.
  • FDs: If possible, choose days when you are busy, but not preparing meals for others.
Concentrate on protein & veg; avoid sugar or fruit juice. e.g. Stir-fries, soups & stews. Ready meals are OK.
  • BFers: start with 1000-cal FDs, optionally reduce to 700 cals gradually.
You can return to 1000 if growth spurts or sleep-deprivation require more fuel.
  • NFDs: No rules, but to improve health, try to cut down on added sugar & junk food, keep alcohol within safe limits. A few treats per week are fine.
  • Do NOT fast: if you've ever had EDs, or if pregnant, under 21, over-stressed, fever, stomach bug, even a bad cold.
  • CHECK with your Doctor: if you have diabetes, any other endocrine condition, any serious past or present medical condition, or if taking ANY prescribed medication (fasting may affect absorption rate)

Scientific Evidence for Fasting & Health

BBC article on the original Horizon program

Telegraph comments on 5:2 and gives a brief overview by Dr Mosley, useful for newbies.

This InterviewPart1 and InterviewPart2 with leading ADF researcher Dr Varady explains why fasting helps you to lose weight AND improves some health markers.

Fasting boosts "autophagy" = recycling of old cells
Yoshinori Ohsumi won the 2016 Nobel prize for Medicine for research into autophagy
NOBEL Lecture “Autophagy – An Intracellular Recycling System”

Prof. R Taylor (Newcastle Uni) won the 2013 Diabetes UK Banting Prize for his Twin Cycle Hypothesis re the cause of type 2 diabetes: Twin Cycle Hypothesis T2
and showed a fasting diet could reverse T2

Dr Michelle Harvie (funded by cancer charities) showed possible benefits of intermittent fasting compared to standard daily calorie reduction in her trials (consecutive FDs) with women at high risk of breast cancer: ComparingDiets , EarlierResearch52

Dr Johnson showed intermittent fasting helped Asthma

HORMESIS & Why Intermittent Fasting Works: Mattson , BlackSwan and Hormesis

Molecular Mechanisms and Clinical Applications: J CellMetabolism
Recent research into the health benefits of fasting: e.g. by world-respected neuroscientist Dr MarkMattson (Mosely referred to his research) showed:

. Improved glucose regulation
. Loss of abdominal fat with maintenance of muscle mass
. Reduced blood pressure and heart rate
. Improved learning and memory and motor function
. Protection of neurons in the brain against dysfunction and degeneration in animal models of Alzheimer’s disease, Parkinson’s disease, stroke and Huntington’s disease.

Brain metabolism in health, aging, andneurodegeneration :
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

He compared 5:2 to ordinary daily diets on overweight women with family history of breast cancer.
Fasting group lost more belly fat, retained more muscle & had slightly better blood sugar regulation.

More of his research is in HealthyAging , Health , AvoidParkinsonsDisease

His article in J Aging Mech Disease 2015 explains the health benefits of intermittent fasting in great scientific detail.

Why intermittent fasting and stopping snacking can lower your risk of serious diseases:
Meal frequency and timing in health and disease

Fasting can help maintain brain health during aging:
emboj.embopress.org/content/36/11/1474
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

This interview with leading researchers into fasting in combination with standard cancer treatment: ScientificDiscussion MoselyMattsonLongo and a LongoInterview

NY Times Fasting Overview

Research by other US and European scientists in this DailyTelegraph Article about the medicinal uses of fasting, for many serious conditions & diseases.

Recent trials with Type 2 diabetics and those at risk of having it used a form of daily fasting - skipping supper.
Their conclusions: eating 1-2 meals per day is better than several small meals for losing weight and controlling insulin levels, see Type2Paper

OP posts:
Thread gallery
13
BigChocFrenzy · 23/09/2020 20:15

Well done on your FDs, MadAunt, Flying, Beaut

Kylie Most people adapt to fasting within 2-3 weeks
Is there anything in particular worrying you about the next FD ?
Or just getting used to feeling peckish during the day but not eating much? - Hunger does no harm just for a day

OP posts:
FlyingByTheSeatof · 23/09/2020 20:43

@Beautiful3 @MadauntofA well done today
@KylieKoKo good luck tomorrow
Thanks @BigChocFrenzy

Kitchen closed at 577.

lightlypoached · 23/09/2020 20:49

@Beautiful3 that's a devilish number Grin

My lovely lunch was lovely. With a glass of wine, overlooking the river with a lovely friend. So, loveliness all round. Managed to finish the day on 1000 cals, and squeezed in an hour long hard yoga class, which is not bad for a naughty day.

Weighed in at 60.2 this morning so heading in the right direction.

You lot are making good progress, it's god to hear your stories

KylieKoKo · 23/09/2020 20:51

@BigChocFrenzy
I think I just dislike calorie counting and the need to weigh food. I've already weighed everything out and it's in Tupperware ready for tomorrow. It's just a bit miserable.

Although one of the things I like about 5 2 is that I only have to do it twice a week.

BigChocFrenzy · 24/09/2020 00:14

Congratulations on your SV, Poached

Kylie On FDs I tend to have a limited number of meals - with varying tweaks - I rinse and repeat, so I never counted after the first few weeks

The FD aim for quick loss is about ¼ TDEE (= roughly 500 cal for women) with no junk or alcohol
with about ½ to ⅓ TDEE (roughly 800 cals) for slightly gentler / slower loss

So one soon gets a feel for an approx fit; 400 one FD, 650 the next - doesn't matter over a period of weks

OP posts:
BigChocFrenzy · 24/09/2020 00:16

Or just take the easy route and have a readymade soup and a readymade low cal meal, maybe with extra veg

OP posts:
BigChocFrenzy · 24/09/2020 00:18

"a devilish number"

I hadn't noticed, poached Shock Grin

OP posts:
KylieKoKo · 24/09/2020 10:00

Hi everyone I'm fasting today. Who else is?

Beautiful3 · 24/09/2020 10:17

@lightlypoached, I'm glad you had an enjoyable day, the view sounds lovely.

BigChocFrenzy · 24/09/2020 10:43

Good luck on your FD, kylie
Any more Thursday fasters ?

OP posts:
KylieKoKo · 24/09/2020 11:11

DP just looked at me and spontaneously said "your tummy looks smaller".

I am taking that as a NSV!

BigChocFrenzy · 24/09/2020 14:26

That's an encouraging compliments NSV, Kylie

OP posts:
ilovebagpuss · 24/09/2020 15:29

Hi@KylieKoKo I am a Mon / Thursday faster hope your day is going ok?
I’ve been slightly de-railed as I was leading some training at work and had taken some lovely biscuits which I had to have one as everyone was being too polite! So I fell on my sword and tucked in so they would join in.
I’m still carrying on though and will just have some homemade soup for dinner.
My trousers look a bit baggy in the leg today and I’m taking that as a positive as they are an 18 and I used to be 16 before Covid comfort additional eating!

BigChocFrenzy · 24/09/2020 16:49

Well done on your trousers NSV, Bagpuss
Just don't trouser any more biscuits and you'll nail today's FD Grin

OP posts:
FlyingByTheSeatof · 24/09/2020 17:20

I forgot to check the carb content of aubergines, it's quite high. I've just eaten some baked aubergine. Very delicious but I need to tweek the recipe so it's more as I expected it to be. I had that with some pork. I've pretty much hit 800 cals but I've left half an aubergine in the oven which I've turned off to see if it gets mushier in the residual heat.
Well done on your shrinking tummy NSV @KylieKoKo and your trousers @ilovebagpuss

MadauntofA · 24/09/2020 17:32

Sone great progress here! I have a number of trousers in varying sizes/ shapes- I'm currently in no 3 down from my biggest onesGrin. Anyone else keep a stash of clothing for when they have previously lost/ gained?

BigChocFrenzy · 24/09/2020 17:34

Flying Aubergines are nutritious, pretty low carb and are among the allowed veg on Fast800 / BSD
No need to be so strict about veg, don't worry about it

Mosely just says cut out starches - potato, parsnip, grains etc - and added sugars;
he doesn't give a carb limit, but on the MN Webchat years ago agreed that 70g carbs per day was a good estimate

OP posts:
BigChocFrenzy · 24/09/2020 17:36

Well done on your Number 3 NSV , MadAunt
< now anyone skim-reading will wonder what is happening in your loo ! Grin >

OP posts:
KylieKoKo · 24/09/2020 18:40

I just had my evening meal of a cottage cheese, spinach, tomato and mushroom omelette with a side of steamed broccoli (cooked in olive oil spray). I feel surprisingly satisfied.

I have a cup a soup and bit more cottage cheese to eat if I'm too hungry to sleep.

I'm looking forward to eating more tomorrow. Dp is talking of getting a chippy which I can join in with guilt free as long as I don't go mad and stuff myself!

@flyingbytheseatof on my last fast day I had aubergine roasted in olive oil spray and lots of salt and pepper and it was delicious!

How are all the other Thursday fasters doing?

@ilovebagpuss don't beat yourself up. Sometimes things are too delicious to pass up!

BigChocFrenzy · 24/09/2020 19:07

Well done on your FD, Kylie
A good healthy menu which was filling

OP posts:
MadauntofA · 24/09/2020 19:29

Bigchoc Grin

ilovebagpuss · 24/09/2020 20:25

Grin no more biscuits trousered today. Kitchen closed on about 600. @MadauntofA I have a few pairs of work trousers in different sizes I have kept a lovely pair of size 14 black wide leg that were very flattering.
One day I hope to wear them. I don’t keep too many smaller sizes or it could make me despondent but there’s no harm in keeping a few favourites like jeans etc.

Beautiful3 · 24/09/2020 20:53

Well done kylie!

BigChocFrenzy · 24/09/2020 22:38

Well done on your FD, Bagpuss
You've got a good target with those favourite black trousers

Warning though: Grin
5:2ers before have rejoiced that they've got back into their old favourites .... then after a couple of months progress find they are too baggy !
So, once they fit, wear them as often as possible, before you get the Trousers Falling Down NSV

OP posts:
moonlight1705 · 25/09/2020 08:02

Morning all, I have finally shifted that cold a bit and am no longer mainlining lemsip Grin

I thought I would end the week on a FD. The other days this week have not quite been a mini but certainly healthy.

I'm now wanting aubergine slices roasted but instead have a green bean and lentil salad for lunch.