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Fasting / 5:2 diet

Talk about intermittent fasting and 5:2, including what’s worked for others. Mumsnet hasn't checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. You may wish to speak to a medical professional before starting any diet.

5:2 Thread number 92: Don’t train to be skinny Train to be a lean bad ass. Come join the bad asses

999 replies

BigChocFrenzy · 06/08/2020 15:19

Welcome to the continuing thread for those following 5:2 or other forms of IF (Intermittent Fasting) such as 4:3, ADF, or daily 16:8 Smile

The 5:2 diet was introduced by Michael Mosely on BBC Horizon on August 2012:

Basically it is 2 very low cal days ("fasts") per week - which need not be consecutive - and eat "normally" to maintain on the other 5 days.

For those who have dieted or maybe overeaten for years, eating "normally"
means roughly the number of calories your body needs to maintain - NOT reduce - its weight (see TDEE calculator below).

IMPORTANT
If you have had past diagnosed Eating Disorders or serious MH problems you should NOT do 5:2 or any other kind of fasting

ACRONYMS

16:8 is a different type of fasting, which can be combined with 5:2.
Daily zero-cal fast for 16 hours and eat within an 8 hour window. To lose weight, this needs a weekly calorie deficit as well

4:3 = fast on 3 non-consecutive days per week

ADF (Alternate-Day Fasting) = fast every other day

b2b (optional) back-to-back / consecutive fast days, each with an increased allowance of 650 calories instead of 500

BMI (Body Mass Index) healthy range is 18.5 - 24.9 for Caucasians. Upper limit may be 22 for some of Asian origin.

FD = single Fast Day: aim for 500 calories (600 for men or 25% TDEE whichever is higher) or 1000 cals for BF
No alcohol or junk on FDs
Even if you exercise strenuously, do NOT increase FD cals to allow for exercise

MFP = My Fitness Pal, a useful App or website to track food & drink calories

miniFD = MiniFD, 850- 1000 calories, no alcohol or junk

NFD = Non-Fast Day, averages around TDEE

NSV / LSV = Non Scale Victory / LifeStyle (change) Victory, e.g. compliment, smaller waist, clothes size

SV = Scale Victory

TDEE = Total Daily Energy Expenditure, the average number of calories you burn in a day, is calculated (see calculators below) from your current weight, height, age, activity level.
Aim to average about this for NFDs.

WOE / WOL = Way Of Eating / Way Of Life. We say this instead of "diet", to emphasise that we must make a permanent change in how we eat, to mainitain our new healthy weight longterm.

HOW TO START

. Take initial measurements: weight, waist, hips
. Use TDEE calculator below if you need a rough guide to how much to eat on NFDs
. Choose any 2 days for FDs, non-consecutive is easier.
. Before each FD: plan, shop & calorie count ALL food & drink for the day

Useful Resources & Calculators

Calorie Counter: mfp
Rough Calories for NFD: Mosely TDEE Calc (exercisers: set activity level to one below what you think)
BMI: Calc
Body Frame Size: Calc
Goal Weight For BodyFrame
Calc
Body Fat: BFat Calc
Choose / Visualise Goal Weight:
3D BMI body types ripped to normal
Bod Vis Measurements & 3D rotate]]

Safe Alcohol Calc: Calc Units Cals

FD Recipes:
Mosely LowCarb , low carb Diet Doc
BBC Good Food 52 , BBC Good Food 500 cal meals ,
Good2Know , Foodie Under 200 Cals
Vegetarian ,

FD Ready Meals, Fast Food

Any Day:
Meal Planner

FAQs / Tips

  • WATER: Start each day with a glass of water; and drink plenty during the day.
  • HOT DRINKS: No limits on tea or coffee, but on FDs count any milk / sugar calories.
  • SLEEP: Try to get enough sleep, or it may slow weight loss.
  • EXERCISE: is healthy & can help weight loss - BUT only if you do NOT eat back less than you burn. Fasted training can burn more fat.
HIIT and resistance training both work well with 5:2/IF.
  • FDs: If possible, choose days when you are busy, but not preparing meals for others.
Concentrate on protein & veg; avoid sugar or fruit juice. e.g. Stir-fries, soups & stews. Ready meals are OK.
  • BFers: start with 1000-cal FDs, optionally reduce to 700 cals gradually.
You can return to 1000 if growth spurts or sleep-deprivation require more fuel.
  • NFDs: No rules, but to improve health, try to cut down on added sugar & junk food, keep alcohol within safe limits. A few treats per week are fine.
  • Do NOT fast: if you've ever had EDs, or if pregnant, under 21, over-stressed, fever, stomach bug, even a bad cold.
  • CHECK with your Doctor: if you have diabetes, any other endocrine condition, any serious past or present medical condition, or if taking ANY prescribed medication (fasting may affect absorption rate)

Scientific Evidence for Fasting & Health

BBC article on the original Horizon program

Telegraph comments on 5:2 and gives a brief overview by Dr Mosley, useful for newbies.

This InterviewPart1 and InterviewPart2 with leading ADF researcher Dr Varady explains why fasting helps you to lose weight AND improves some health markers.

Fasting boosts "autophagy" = recycling of old cells
Yoshinori Ohsumi won the 2016 Nobel prize for Medicine for research into autophagy
NOBEL Lecture “Autophagy – An Intracellular Recycling System”

Prof. R Taylor (Newcastle Uni) won the 2013 Diabetes UK Banting Prize for his Twin Cycle Hypothesis re the cause of type 2 diabetes: Twin Cycle Hypothesis T2
and showed a fasting diet could reverse T2

Dr Michelle Harvie (funded by cancer charities) showed possible benefits of intermittent fasting compared to standard daily calorie reduction in her trials (consecutive FDs) with women at high risk of breast cancer: ComparingDiets , EarlierResearch52

Dr Johnson showed intermittent fasting helped Asthma

HORMESIS & Why Intermittent Fasting Works: Mattson , BlackSwan and Hormesis

Molecular Mechanisms and Clinical Applications: J CellMetabolism
Recent research into the health benefits of fasting: e.g. by world-respected neuroscientist Dr MarkMattson (Mosely referred to his research) showed:

. Improved glucose regulation
. Loss of abdominal fat with maintenance of muscle mass
. Reduced blood pressure and heart rate
. Improved learning and memory and motor function
. Protection of neurons in the brain against dysfunction and degeneration in animal models of Alzheimer’s disease, Parkinson’s disease, stroke and Huntington’s disease.

Brain metabolism in health, aging, andneurodegeneration :
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

He compared 5:2 to ordinary daily diets on overweight women with family history of breast cancer.
Fasting group lost more belly fat, retained more muscle & had slightly better blood sugar regulation.

More of his research is in HealthyAging , Health , AvoidParkinsonsDisease

His article in J Aging Mech Disease 2015 explains the health benefits of intermittent fasting in great scientific detail.

Why intermittent fasting and stopping snacking can lower your risk of serious diseases:
Meal frequency and timing in health and disease

Fasting can help maintain brain health during aging:
emboj.embopress.org/content/36/11/1474
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

This interview with leading researchers into fasting in combination with standard cancer treatment: ScientificDiscussion MoselyMattsonLongo and a LongoInterview

NY Times Fasting Overview

Research by other US and European scientists in this DailyTelegraph Article about the medicinal uses of fasting, for many serious conditions & diseases.

Recent trials with Type 2 diabetics and those at risk of having it used a form of daily fasting - skipping supper.
Their conclusions: eating 1-2 meals per day is better than several small meals for losing weight and controlling insulin levels, see Type2Paper

OP posts:
Thread gallery
13
Beautiful3 · 22/09/2020 17:19

Your walk sounds lovely, and warm BigChoc. It's been 21 degrees here in the UK. I've walked the dog for an hour and walked home from school. I'm trying to become more active outdoors, especially when the weather's delightful.

BigChocFrenzy · 22/09/2020 17:40

Let's make the most of the last bit of summer, Beaut

Walking outside is good for the "executive functions" of the brain,
as well as cardio benefits and lowering stress

A dog is a great companion to make you walk regularly and make it enjoyable too
I often see and play with my NDN's dog - all the fun, none of the responsibility of ownership Grin

OP posts:
Whattodowithaminute · 22/09/2020 18:29

Well done on a good day beaut How is your day going kylie?
Hope you feel better soon moonlight!
Good FD here, have had 200 for soup and a chicken salad for dinner will close kitchen on 650 which makes it a solid B2B. I forgot how much I have to get up at night to for a wee after FD!

KylieKoKo · 22/09/2020 19:43

@Whattodowithaminute

Not too bad.

I had miso soup, salad and blueberries for lunch then a small piece of cod with butternut squash and aubergine roasted in olive oil spray with a tiny bit of feta on the butternut squash.

I have a diet cup a soup and an egg for before bed so I'm not too hungry to sleep.

I'm not feeling too hungry today although I'm jealous of DP's dinner.

Oh well, I can eat heartily tomorrow!

KylieKoKo · 22/09/2020 19:43

Also did a HIIT class at lunchtime.

BigChocFrenzy · 22/09/2020 20:24

Excellent FDs there, what, Kylie

I recommend you drink some water, then clean your teeth
Psychologically the fresh feel and minty taste reduces the temptation to consume any more

Also, an early night boosts the fasting benefits

OP posts:
lightlypoached · 22/09/2020 22:13

Hello everyone. A manic couple of days, yoga every morning and dance lesson tonight. Managed 800 cals yesterday and 640 today, which is just as well because tomorrow.........I'm going out for lunch. In central london with a friend/colleague. I live in zone 4 but have not ventured into town for months. So I'll need to wear proper clothes. And makeup , and shoes. And a bra  oooh. How very exciting.

Weighing in at 60.7 today.

All this FD and non fast day stop starting will slow progress for weight loss but at least I won't be adding to my hips.

Get well soon @Moon there's lots of nasty bugs about.

BigChocFrenzy · 23/09/2020 00:13

Well done on your b2b, poached
Enjoy your lunch out tomorrow

OP posts:
Whattodowithaminute · 23/09/2020 08:04

2lb down is a good kick off and back into the swing of 5:2. Good luck Wednesday fasters.

MadauntofA · 23/09/2020 08:26

FD here. Had dinner with my friend yesterday- delicious but more than I would usually have, so FD is definitely welcomed!
Good luck fellow Wednesday fasters!

BigChocFrenzy · 23/09/2020 09:06

Congratulations on your SV, What
Good start

Good luck today, MadAUnt and any other Wednesday fasters

This evening I have the Evil Norman in the gym;
currently deciding between his standing spin and / or advanced lifting class
The sun is beckoning me, so I'll think while I walk

OP posts:
FlyingByTheSeatof · 23/09/2020 10:11

FD for me today. Just weighed myself and lost 1kg / 2lb this week which is ok but I'd like more off for next week so need to be stricter.

KylieKoKo · 23/09/2020 11:33

Well done @FlyingByTheSeatof

NFD for me today. I really enjoyed my breakfast omelette after fasting yesterday.

I'm going to the gym at lunchtime for strength and conditioning then off to the supermarket to get some low calorie food for tomorrow.

FlyingByTheSeatof · 23/09/2020 12:16

Thanks @KylieKoKo I have at least 20 kg I want to lose >>sigh

Coffeeandcookies · 23/09/2020 14:52

Any weight loss is progress in the right direction Flying, well done for what you have achieved and remember you're in this for the long-game.

BigChocFrenzy · 23/09/2020 14:54

Sounds a good plan, kylie

Congratulations on your SV, Flying
That is a decent rate of loss at this stage - Fast800/BSD slows down a bit after the initial burst

Be patient and keep this WOE sustainable for the next few months
That weight took a lot longer than a few weeks to go on, so it will take a while to come off

I suggest you keep your NFDs > 1200 to provide a contrast and keep your metabolism revved up,
but avoid starchy carbs and alcohol

OP posts:
FlyingByTheSeatof · 23/09/2020 15:21

Thanks @Coffeeandcookies and @BigChocFrenzy

I can and will do this. So far I've eaten nothing yet today but I haven't really moved much either. I stuck some swede in my slow cooker to see how it turns out compared to in the oven. Later I'll eat pork and swede and yoghurt and berries.

BigChocFrenzy · 23/09/2020 15:24

Sounds a very healthy low carb menu
A short walk outside would be good, too

OP posts:
FlyingByTheSeatof · 23/09/2020 15:33

Yes you're right @BigChocFrenzy I'm just feeling a bit blah, which is of course another reason to go for that walk.

FlyingByTheSeatof · 23/09/2020 15:40

Actually it's 1.2 kg which is 2.6 lbs Grin

KylieKoKo · 23/09/2020 16:16

@FlyingByTheSeatof I'd be delighted to lose that in a week!

Beautiful3 · 23/09/2020 16:57

Kitchen closed at 666! Well done Wednesday fasters. That's my 3 back to back fast days done for this week. Saved a cookie for tomorrow, Im really looking forward to it!

KylieKoKo · 23/09/2020 19:11

I have a weird sense of dread about my fast day tomorrow even though it has been fine in the past.

MadauntofA · 23/09/2020 19:22

Well done Flying, Beaut and any other Wednesday fasters.
Kitchen closed here at 540. Weight loss v slow and steady, I feel like I'm in a good routine!
I'm sure you will be fine tomorrow Kylie!

Beautiful3 · 23/09/2020 19:32

Thanks @MadauntofA. Well done on your fast today, too.

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