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Fasting / 5:2 diet

Talk about intermittent fasting and 5:2, including what’s worked for others. Mumsnet hasn't checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. You may wish to speak to a medical professional before starting any diet.

5:2 Thread number 92: Don’t train to be skinny Train to be a lean bad ass. Come join the bad asses

999 replies

BigChocFrenzy · 06/08/2020 15:19

Welcome to the continuing thread for those following 5:2 or other forms of IF (Intermittent Fasting) such as 4:3, ADF, or daily 16:8 Smile

The 5:2 diet was introduced by Michael Mosely on BBC Horizon on August 2012:

Basically it is 2 very low cal days ("fasts") per week - which need not be consecutive - and eat "normally" to maintain on the other 5 days.

For those who have dieted or maybe overeaten for years, eating "normally"
means roughly the number of calories your body needs to maintain - NOT reduce - its weight (see TDEE calculator below).

IMPORTANT
If you have had past diagnosed Eating Disorders or serious MH problems you should NOT do 5:2 or any other kind of fasting

ACRONYMS

16:8 is a different type of fasting, which can be combined with 5:2.
Daily zero-cal fast for 16 hours and eat within an 8 hour window. To lose weight, this needs a weekly calorie deficit as well

4:3 = fast on 3 non-consecutive days per week

ADF (Alternate-Day Fasting) = fast every other day

b2b (optional) back-to-back / consecutive fast days, each with an increased allowance of 650 calories instead of 500

BMI (Body Mass Index) healthy range is 18.5 - 24.9 for Caucasians. Upper limit may be 22 for some of Asian origin.

FD = single Fast Day: aim for 500 calories (600 for men or 25% TDEE whichever is higher) or 1000 cals for BF
No alcohol or junk on FDs
Even if you exercise strenuously, do NOT increase FD cals to allow for exercise

MFP = My Fitness Pal, a useful App or website to track food & drink calories

miniFD = MiniFD, 850- 1000 calories, no alcohol or junk

NFD = Non-Fast Day, averages around TDEE

NSV / LSV = Non Scale Victory / LifeStyle (change) Victory, e.g. compliment, smaller waist, clothes size

SV = Scale Victory

TDEE = Total Daily Energy Expenditure, the average number of calories you burn in a day, is calculated (see calculators below) from your current weight, height, age, activity level.
Aim to average about this for NFDs.

WOE / WOL = Way Of Eating / Way Of Life. We say this instead of "diet", to emphasise that we must make a permanent change in how we eat, to mainitain our new healthy weight longterm.

HOW TO START

. Take initial measurements: weight, waist, hips
. Use TDEE calculator below if you need a rough guide to how much to eat on NFDs
. Choose any 2 days for FDs, non-consecutive is easier.
. Before each FD: plan, shop & calorie count ALL food & drink for the day

Useful Resources & Calculators

Calorie Counter: mfp
Rough Calories for NFD: Mosely TDEE Calc (exercisers: set activity level to one below what you think)
BMI: Calc
Body Frame Size: Calc
Goal Weight For BodyFrame
Calc
Body Fat: BFat Calc
Choose / Visualise Goal Weight:
3D BMI body types ripped to normal
Bod Vis Measurements & 3D rotate]]

Safe Alcohol Calc: Calc Units Cals

FD Recipes:
Mosely LowCarb , low carb Diet Doc
BBC Good Food 52 , BBC Good Food 500 cal meals ,
Good2Know , Foodie Under 200 Cals
Vegetarian ,

FD Ready Meals, Fast Food

Any Day:
Meal Planner

FAQs / Tips

  • WATER: Start each day with a glass of water; and drink plenty during the day.
  • HOT DRINKS: No limits on tea or coffee, but on FDs count any milk / sugar calories.
  • SLEEP: Try to get enough sleep, or it may slow weight loss.
  • EXERCISE: is healthy & can help weight loss - BUT only if you do NOT eat back less than you burn. Fasted training can burn more fat.
HIIT and resistance training both work well with 5:2/IF.
  • FDs: If possible, choose days when you are busy, but not preparing meals for others.
Concentrate on protein & veg; avoid sugar or fruit juice. e.g. Stir-fries, soups & stews. Ready meals are OK.
  • BFers: start with 1000-cal FDs, optionally reduce to 700 cals gradually.
You can return to 1000 if growth spurts or sleep-deprivation require more fuel.
  • NFDs: No rules, but to improve health, try to cut down on added sugar & junk food, keep alcohol within safe limits. A few treats per week are fine.
  • Do NOT fast: if you've ever had EDs, or if pregnant, under 21, over-stressed, fever, stomach bug, even a bad cold.
  • CHECK with your Doctor: if you have diabetes, any other endocrine condition, any serious past or present medical condition, or if taking ANY prescribed medication (fasting may affect absorption rate)

Scientific Evidence for Fasting & Health

BBC article on the original Horizon program

Telegraph comments on 5:2 and gives a brief overview by Dr Mosley, useful for newbies.

This InterviewPart1 and InterviewPart2 with leading ADF researcher Dr Varady explains why fasting helps you to lose weight AND improves some health markers.

Fasting boosts "autophagy" = recycling of old cells
Yoshinori Ohsumi won the 2016 Nobel prize for Medicine for research into autophagy
NOBEL Lecture “Autophagy – An Intracellular Recycling System”

Prof. R Taylor (Newcastle Uni) won the 2013 Diabetes UK Banting Prize for his Twin Cycle Hypothesis re the cause of type 2 diabetes: Twin Cycle Hypothesis T2
and showed a fasting diet could reverse T2

Dr Michelle Harvie (funded by cancer charities) showed possible benefits of intermittent fasting compared to standard daily calorie reduction in her trials (consecutive FDs) with women at high risk of breast cancer: ComparingDiets , EarlierResearch52

Dr Johnson showed intermittent fasting helped Asthma

HORMESIS & Why Intermittent Fasting Works: Mattson , BlackSwan and Hormesis

Molecular Mechanisms and Clinical Applications: J CellMetabolism
Recent research into the health benefits of fasting: e.g. by world-respected neuroscientist Dr MarkMattson (Mosely referred to his research) showed:

. Improved glucose regulation
. Loss of abdominal fat with maintenance of muscle mass
. Reduced blood pressure and heart rate
. Improved learning and memory and motor function
. Protection of neurons in the brain against dysfunction and degeneration in animal models of Alzheimer’s disease, Parkinson’s disease, stroke and Huntington’s disease.

Brain metabolism in health, aging, andneurodegeneration :
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

He compared 5:2 to ordinary daily diets on overweight women with family history of breast cancer.
Fasting group lost more belly fat, retained more muscle & had slightly better blood sugar regulation.

More of his research is in HealthyAging , Health , AvoidParkinsonsDisease

His article in J Aging Mech Disease 2015 explains the health benefits of intermittent fasting in great scientific detail.

Why intermittent fasting and stopping snacking can lower your risk of serious diseases:
Meal frequency and timing in health and disease

Fasting can help maintain brain health during aging:
emboj.embopress.org/content/36/11/1474
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

This interview with leading researchers into fasting in combination with standard cancer treatment: ScientificDiscussion MoselyMattsonLongo and a LongoInterview

NY Times Fasting Overview

Research by other US and European scientists in this DailyTelegraph Article about the medicinal uses of fasting, for many serious conditions & diseases.

Recent trials with Type 2 diabetics and those at risk of having it used a form of daily fasting - skipping supper.
Their conclusions: eating 1-2 meals per day is better than several small meals for losing weight and controlling insulin levels, see Type2Paper

OP posts:
Thread gallery
13
lightlypoached · 21/09/2020 06:51

@flying @mad that's good going for a Sunday.

I overindulged all weekend, but knowingly. One of the things I'd really been missing was wine. I drank wine this weekend and find that it makes me sleep very, very badly -as in tossing and turning and waking up at 3am for anything between 1 and 3 hours. . So I guess a good by-product of this process is helping me to long-term significantly cut down my drinking, which is good.

Next 3 days are fast days with max 800 plus exercise and a full work days as well,

Good luck everyone  and thanks to @BigChocFrenzy for keeping us on the case and advising on the approach.

FlyingByTheSeatof · 21/09/2020 08:49

Yup totally with you on that one @lightlypoached wine had me tossing and turning in a hot sweat all of Saturday night. Sunday I surprisingly didn't have a hangover but felt delicate.
I'm looking forward to garlic mushrooms later.

ilovebagpuss · 21/09/2020 08:55

Morning! Lovely autumnal mists here today sun just peeping through I love autumn.
Monday fasting here working from home so will have to ignore the siren call from the fridge Grin
Good luck to any other Monday fasters.

Beautiful3 · 21/09/2020 10:10

Morning everyone. Ate over my calories a couple of fnd unfortunately, due to time of the month. Hoping I can repair it with a fast today and tomorrow!

BigChocFrenzy · 21/09/2020 12:45

Good luck to all the Monday fasters

Yes, some people find their tolerance to alcohol on NFDs reduces
Also, an FD with a hangover from the night before is reportedly rather hard Grin

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FlyingByTheSeatof · 21/09/2020 15:09

Morning @ilovebagpuss @Beautiful3 @BigChocFrenzy

I could definitely feel that autumnal chill this morning, it's now warm and sunny. And yes it was hard, I'll pre plan the getting home and next day food better next time.

I've roasted a random mix of veg in a tiny bit of oil infused with garlic and rosemary. I want them cold as a salad with pork later.

Has anyone tried out those Heinz spray salad dressings at all? I quite fancy the idea of them for a light dusting of flavour.

Whattodowithaminute · 21/09/2020 16:26

Hope all Monday fasters are staying strong! I weighed in this morning at 12st 7, that’s 16lb over where I was at the beginning of lockdown. Today has started well though, black coffee, water, a late Thai squash soup and pepper pasta for dinner will bring me in at 835 today-a bit over but getting back on the wagon... Will be B2B tomorrow as going to do FD on all 3 of my working days.

ilovebagpuss · 21/09/2020 16:46

Hello @FlyingByTheSeatof and @Whattodowithaminute and any other Monday fasters. I have never tried those spray Salad dressings Flying I would think making a little bit of olive oil vinigrette would be ok for a fast meal if you don’t go overboard.
I have randomly been cooking all afternoon which is not as hard as I thought it would be on a fast day! I’ve made a parsnip carrot and random bits of veg soup, some roast chicken breasts with tomatoes and chilli flakes and a massive pan of bolognaise.
Hoping I can keep strong and not fall headfirst into the bolognaise.

Beautiful3 · 21/09/2020 18:50

Well done Monday fasters! Kitchen closed at 580. Better brush my teeth quick!

Beautiful3 · 21/09/2020 18:52

@BigChocFrenzy
ooh those Heinz sprays sounds yummy! Never tried one but will add one to my shop!

Coffeeandcookies · 21/09/2020 21:21

Evening all, well done to the Monday fasters, great way to start the week!

Tomorrow is a FD for me, am just planning my menu. Am at work so going to have a small lunch of fruit with Greek yoghurt, then planning a tortilla wrap pizza for dinner in the evening. If I stick to that I'll be on 595 calories tomorrow.

Weighed myself this morning and have just dropped into the normal BMI range, which I'm delighted about! I know my weight will seesaw up and down by a few pounds over the next week or two before I settle consistently into the normal range, but it was really encouraging to see those figures on the scales for the first time in a long time.

Hopefully it will help any of you who need the encouragement that this works!! Keep going!!

Beautiful3 · 21/09/2020 21:43

Sorry my previous post was meant for @FlyingByTheSeatof!

Whattodowithaminute · 21/09/2020 21:45

Well done on that milestone @Coffeeandcookies, great achievement and motivation. Kitchen closed on plan for me. I normally hate B2B so will see how I fare tomorrow!

BigChocFrenzy · 21/09/2020 22:03

Congratulations on your SV, Coffee
Getting back into healthy BMI is a really important milestone

That's fine on your 1st FD back, What
and a you 4:3 plan should give you a quick start - with reasonably sensible NFDs

Well done on a good FD, Beaut

Have you closed the klitchen, Flying, bagpuss ?
You both have delic menus

That's tough temptation, Bagpuss I'd be avoiding breathing in the chicken aroma Grin
On FDs I only ever get tempted by savoury things, not sweet ones

Salad dressing :
I often have balsamic vinegar, cider vingar or lemon juice without any oil
If the protein or additional veg has been fried /roasted, then that usually works for me
If not, then a (measured) teasp olive oil mixed with the vinegar

OP posts:
FlyingByTheSeatof · 21/09/2020 23:45

Kitchen closed at 568 because I just lost my appetite after my roasted veggies hours ago which I ate still warm with a bit of pork about half a chop kind of amount. My internet keeps going down.

FlyingByTheSeatof · 21/09/2020 23:55

that is apart from a packet of fruit pastilles

BigChocFrenzy · 22/09/2020 00:42

Well done on your FD, flying

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moonlight1705 · 22/09/2020 07:55

Morning all, what a great achievement Coffee well done.

I was meant to be doing a FD today but I have got the world's worst cold right now and feel I need the energy. I do have healthy low calories planned for meals so it may turn into a mini. I suppose I could do three minis instead or just leave it a week and start again when I feel better.

FlyingByTheSeatof · 22/09/2020 09:00

@Coffeeandcookies that's something to celebrate this is what it's all about, well done.

NFD today but always have 800 cals in mind if I can as still have a way to go yet.

FlyingByTheSeatof · 22/09/2020 09:14

Thanks @BigChocFrenzy it does get easier this WOE and I can't imagine eating any other way now.

KylieKoKo · 22/09/2020 09:19

It's a fast day for me today. Is anyone else fasting today?

BigChocFrenzy · 22/09/2020 09:20

Don't fast if you don't feel well enough, Moonlight
You could try 2-3 miniFDs, but let them segue into healthy NFDs if it feels tough

Alternatively, just go for a healthy TLC week:
nutritious meals, no snacks between - no junky treats, no alcohol
so that you sts and also support your immune system to basb that bug asap

I hope you feel better soon 💐

Flying Transitioning from Fast800/ BSD, I recommend you keep the lower carb on NFDs, but allow yourself plenty more calories, up to TDEE
An NFD by definition has > 1000 calories, or it is a miniFD or FD

The issue with low carb is that if you break it some days, then it takes 48 hours to get back into ketosis,
so you reduce fat-burning on FDs too

Good luck Tuesday fasters

OP posts:
BigChocFrenzy · 22/09/2020 09:28

Good luck on your FD, Kylie

OP posts:
Beautiful3 · 22/09/2020 17:10

If you're not feeling well @moonlight1705 then I wouldn't fast. Just move it to another day. Hope you feel better soon.

Kitchen closed at 520. Hopefully I'll do the same tomorrow. Well done Tuesday fasters.

BigChocFrenzy · 22/09/2020 17:15

Well done, beaut and good luck tomorrow

Tuesday is my training restday, so enjoyed a lazy Rhine walk, to soak up the last of the sunshine
It's chilly enough for long sleeves early morning and late evening, but during the day it's still T and shorts, up to 27C today

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