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Fasting / 5:2 diet

Talk about intermittent fasting and 5:2, including what’s worked for others. Mumsnet hasn't checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. You may wish to speak to a medical professional before starting any diet.

5:2 Thread number 92: Don’t train to be skinny Train to be a lean bad ass. Come join the bad asses

999 replies

BigChocFrenzy · 06/08/2020 15:19

Welcome to the continuing thread for those following 5:2 or other forms of IF (Intermittent Fasting) such as 4:3, ADF, or daily 16:8 Smile

The 5:2 diet was introduced by Michael Mosely on BBC Horizon on August 2012:

Basically it is 2 very low cal days ("fasts") per week - which need not be consecutive - and eat "normally" to maintain on the other 5 days.

For those who have dieted or maybe overeaten for years, eating "normally"
means roughly the number of calories your body needs to maintain - NOT reduce - its weight (see TDEE calculator below).

IMPORTANT
If you have had past diagnosed Eating Disorders or serious MH problems you should NOT do 5:2 or any other kind of fasting

ACRONYMS

16:8 is a different type of fasting, which can be combined with 5:2.
Daily zero-cal fast for 16 hours and eat within an 8 hour window. To lose weight, this needs a weekly calorie deficit as well

4:3 = fast on 3 non-consecutive days per week

ADF (Alternate-Day Fasting) = fast every other day

b2b (optional) back-to-back / consecutive fast days, each with an increased allowance of 650 calories instead of 500

BMI (Body Mass Index) healthy range is 18.5 - 24.9 for Caucasians. Upper limit may be 22 for some of Asian origin.

FD = single Fast Day: aim for 500 calories (600 for men or 25% TDEE whichever is higher) or 1000 cals for BF
No alcohol or junk on FDs
Even if you exercise strenuously, do NOT increase FD cals to allow for exercise

MFP = My Fitness Pal, a useful App or website to track food & drink calories

miniFD = MiniFD, 850- 1000 calories, no alcohol or junk

NFD = Non-Fast Day, averages around TDEE

NSV / LSV = Non Scale Victory / LifeStyle (change) Victory, e.g. compliment, smaller waist, clothes size

SV = Scale Victory

TDEE = Total Daily Energy Expenditure, the average number of calories you burn in a day, is calculated (see calculators below) from your current weight, height, age, activity level.
Aim to average about this for NFDs.

WOE / WOL = Way Of Eating / Way Of Life. We say this instead of "diet", to emphasise that we must make a permanent change in how we eat, to mainitain our new healthy weight longterm.

HOW TO START

. Take initial measurements: weight, waist, hips
. Use TDEE calculator below if you need a rough guide to how much to eat on NFDs
. Choose any 2 days for FDs, non-consecutive is easier.
. Before each FD: plan, shop & calorie count ALL food & drink for the day

Useful Resources & Calculators

Calorie Counter: mfp
Rough Calories for NFD: Mosely TDEE Calc (exercisers: set activity level to one below what you think)
BMI: Calc
Body Frame Size: Calc
Goal Weight For BodyFrame
Calc
Body Fat: BFat Calc
Choose / Visualise Goal Weight:
3D BMI body types ripped to normal
Bod Vis Measurements & 3D rotate]]

Safe Alcohol Calc: Calc Units Cals

FD Recipes:
Mosely LowCarb , low carb Diet Doc
BBC Good Food 52 , BBC Good Food 500 cal meals ,
Good2Know , Foodie Under 200 Cals
Vegetarian ,

FD Ready Meals, Fast Food

Any Day:
Meal Planner

FAQs / Tips

  • WATER: Start each day with a glass of water; and drink plenty during the day.
  • HOT DRINKS: No limits on tea or coffee, but on FDs count any milk / sugar calories.
  • SLEEP: Try to get enough sleep, or it may slow weight loss.
  • EXERCISE: is healthy & can help weight loss - BUT only if you do NOT eat back less than you burn. Fasted training can burn more fat.
HIIT and resistance training both work well with 5:2/IF.
  • FDs: If possible, choose days when you are busy, but not preparing meals for others.
Concentrate on protein & veg; avoid sugar or fruit juice. e.g. Stir-fries, soups & stews. Ready meals are OK.
  • BFers: start with 1000-cal FDs, optionally reduce to 700 cals gradually.
You can return to 1000 if growth spurts or sleep-deprivation require more fuel.
  • NFDs: No rules, but to improve health, try to cut down on added sugar & junk food, keep alcohol within safe limits. A few treats per week are fine.
  • Do NOT fast: if you've ever had EDs, or if pregnant, under 21, over-stressed, fever, stomach bug, even a bad cold.
  • CHECK with your Doctor: if you have diabetes, any other endocrine condition, any serious past or present medical condition, or if taking ANY prescribed medication (fasting may affect absorption rate)

Scientific Evidence for Fasting & Health

BBC article on the original Horizon program

Telegraph comments on 5:2 and gives a brief overview by Dr Mosley, useful for newbies.

This InterviewPart1 and InterviewPart2 with leading ADF researcher Dr Varady explains why fasting helps you to lose weight AND improves some health markers.

Fasting boosts "autophagy" = recycling of old cells
Yoshinori Ohsumi won the 2016 Nobel prize for Medicine for research into autophagy
NOBEL Lecture “Autophagy – An Intracellular Recycling System”

Prof. R Taylor (Newcastle Uni) won the 2013 Diabetes UK Banting Prize for his Twin Cycle Hypothesis re the cause of type 2 diabetes: Twin Cycle Hypothesis T2
and showed a fasting diet could reverse T2

Dr Michelle Harvie (funded by cancer charities) showed possible benefits of intermittent fasting compared to standard daily calorie reduction in her trials (consecutive FDs) with women at high risk of breast cancer: ComparingDiets , EarlierResearch52

Dr Johnson showed intermittent fasting helped Asthma

HORMESIS & Why Intermittent Fasting Works: Mattson , BlackSwan and Hormesis

Molecular Mechanisms and Clinical Applications: J CellMetabolism
Recent research into the health benefits of fasting: e.g. by world-respected neuroscientist Dr MarkMattson (Mosely referred to his research) showed:

. Improved glucose regulation
. Loss of abdominal fat with maintenance of muscle mass
. Reduced blood pressure and heart rate
. Improved learning and memory and motor function
. Protection of neurons in the brain against dysfunction and degeneration in animal models of Alzheimer’s disease, Parkinson’s disease, stroke and Huntington’s disease.

Brain metabolism in health, aging, andneurodegeneration :
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

He compared 5:2 to ordinary daily diets on overweight women with family history of breast cancer.
Fasting group lost more belly fat, retained more muscle & had slightly better blood sugar regulation.

More of his research is in HealthyAging , Health , AvoidParkinsonsDisease

His article in J Aging Mech Disease 2015 explains the health benefits of intermittent fasting in great scientific detail.

Why intermittent fasting and stopping snacking can lower your risk of serious diseases:
Meal frequency and timing in health and disease

Fasting can help maintain brain health during aging:
emboj.embopress.org/content/36/11/1474
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

This interview with leading researchers into fasting in combination with standard cancer treatment: ScientificDiscussion MoselyMattsonLongo and a LongoInterview

NY Times Fasting Overview

Research by other US and European scientists in this DailyTelegraph Article about the medicinal uses of fasting, for many serious conditions & diseases.

Recent trials with Type 2 diabetics and those at risk of having it used a form of daily fasting - skipping supper.
Their conclusions: eating 1-2 meals per day is better than several small meals for losing weight and controlling insulin levels, see Type2Paper

OP posts:
Thread gallery
13
FlyingByTheSeatof · 18/09/2020 08:55

Well done @moonlight1705 - I couldn't resist a couple myself but held off on more so I'm really pleased with that

FlyingByTheSeatof · 18/09/2020 08:56

Good luck @Coffeeandcookies sounds like you have it all deliciously planned out.
I'm not sure what I'm going to have later yet.

KylieKoKo · 18/09/2020 10:53

Good luck @Coffeeandcookies

lightlypoached · 18/09/2020 13:26

Impressed with all this fasting. I managed to fall off the wagon into a bottle of Chablis last night Blush
Which rapidly escalated into some cheese and biscuits. It's been a busy work week so I needed a break.

Today:
B eggs and avo with a big handful of cherry toms harvested from the garden
L miso noodle soup with chilli, ginger, spinnach, peas, tofu, and carrot
D prawn curry and cauliflower rice.

Was going to do a big walk after work but someone put a 6.30pm call in with one of the board so now I can't Sad

Anyway will do a big walk tomorrow instead Smile

Weighed in at 60.7 this morning so the yo yo I got continues. Grin

Is anyone fasting over the weekend ?

BigChocFrenzy · 18/09/2020 20:50

Well done on yesterday's FD, Flying, moonlight

How is today going, coffee, poached

Poached yo-yo is typically because of eating back the FD deficit on NFDs, so I suggest examining these.

If you have recently lost a fair amount, you'll need to adjust down what you used to consume, in order to fit the needs of your smaller bod

Also, aim for a sensible weekend - usually where most of the damage happens -
especially no snacking and no exceeding of NHS alcohol limits

OP posts:
W989 · 18/09/2020 21:04

I'm weighing in at 10st7. Don't want to lose much more. Fasting is nice though.

Coffeeandcookies · 18/09/2020 22:01

Kitchen closed, 614, so slightly more than intended. It was due to a couple of extra coffees that I hadn't added into my total when planning the day and am happy with the total as I played a 70 minute sports match this evening and haven't eaten those calories back. Looking forward to my porridge in the morning!!

BigChocFrenzy · 18/09/2020 23:10

Well done, Coffee

You are near goal, W989 Have you already lost some weight ?
Good to hear you like fasting

OP posts:
BigChocFrenzy · 19/09/2020 09:36

I'm having a maintenance miniFD today
Anyone else ?

HIIT class this afternoon, followed by spin
and definitely a Rhine walk - still enjoying the summer here, 25C today going up to 27C next week

OP posts:
FlyingByTheSeatof · 19/09/2020 10:17

Kitchen closed yesterday at 692. Today is a NFD but I'm still keeping an eye on things to keep it cal and carb low if I can whilst I'm out with friends.

BigChocFrenzy · 19/09/2020 11:42

Well done on your FD, Flying

I suggest on NFDs concentrating on keeping carbs low, but allowing yourself up to TDEE calories,
as Mosely suggests for gradual transition out of Fast800 / BSD

OP posts:
BigChocFrenzy · 19/09/2020 11:43

e.g. A generous plate of protein & veg, maybe a side salad starter too, but have black coffee for pud
and stick to 1 glass wine

OP posts:
ilovebagpuss · 19/09/2020 12:32

Down 1.5lb again so 3lb total so far quite happy with that. Trying to focus again on not over eating this weekend and no snacking. Hope everyone has a good weekend.

BigChocFrenzy · 19/09/2020 13:08

Congratulations on your SV, Bagpuss
That's a good weekend plan

OP posts:
FlyingByTheSeatof · 19/09/2020 13:42

@BigChocFrenzy I've factored in 4 glasses of Prosecco and a burger minus bun with the salady bits not sure they have a huge menu where we're going. my plans will probably go tits up. So far I've eaten yogurt and berries along with tea and coffee. I'll eat a simple salad before I go.

lightlypoached · 19/09/2020 15:35

Excellent work @ilovebagpuss

I'm on a trying-not-to-eat-too-much day today.

B:tomatoes,avo and eggs with rye bread
L:small bowl of very nutty Dorset cereals muesli (craving)
D sourdough pizza with salad and a glass of red

Way too many carbs but feel like I need them.

Back on it proper on Monday. Will start to introduce 16:8 800 on 4 days.

MadauntofA · 20/09/2020 07:54

Morning all! Lots of great IF going on in this group.
FD here - not usual for me, but the only FD I can do next week is Wednesday, so doing today. Miso soup for lunch then baked salmon and vegetables tonight.

FlyingByTheSeatof · 20/09/2020 11:30

Morning everyone FD today
I've had my tea Brew and my coffee is brewing. I've had a matchbox piece of cheddar. Lots of wine was consumed yesterday. I prepped my tummy with a bacon omelette before I went and had a few shared chips. When I got home though I just wanted to stuff my face with toast, which I didn't, but I tried grapes which didn't hit the spot at all so I raided DS snack stash (DC snacks, all snacks, are out of my sight so I'm not tempted) and ate some Doritos Hmm
Happily though my clothes hung beautifully imho yesterday so I felt positive, comfortable and had a great time because of it.

BigChocFrenzy · 20/09/2020 13:39

Good luck today, MadAUnt, Flying

OP posts:
MadauntofA · 20/09/2020 17:24

How are you getting on Flying? Finished here at 540. Good luck Monday fasters

BigChocFrenzy · 20/09/2020 20:19

Well done on another good FD, MadAunt

OP posts:
BigChocFrenzy · 20/09/2020 20:20

I've had spin class, 45 minutes lifting weights and my usual 10k steps (I only measure outdoors)

OP posts:
FlyingByTheSeatof · 20/09/2020 21:35

807 cals today and 40 carbs. Ate some cheese when I woke up followed later by yogurt and berries. Had some lovely pork and veg for late lunch haven't eaten since then because I needed to eat till I was stuffed. No exercise today but did walk a good few miles yesterday to and fro.

BigChocFrenzy · 20/09/2020 23:09

Well done on a successful FD, flying

OP posts:
FlyingByTheSeatof · 20/09/2020 23:11

Thanks @BigChocFrenzy it took a lot of effort to avoid certain items.

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