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Fasting / 5:2 diet

Talk about intermittent fasting and 5:2, including what’s worked for others. Mumsnet hasn't checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. You may wish to speak to a medical professional before starting any diet.

5:2 Thread number 92: Don’t train to be skinny Train to be a lean bad ass. Come join the bad asses

999 replies

BigChocFrenzy · 06/08/2020 15:19

Welcome to the continuing thread for those following 5:2 or other forms of IF (Intermittent Fasting) such as 4:3, ADF, or daily 16:8 Smile

The 5:2 diet was introduced by Michael Mosely on BBC Horizon on August 2012:

Basically it is 2 very low cal days ("fasts") per week - which need not be consecutive - and eat "normally" to maintain on the other 5 days.

For those who have dieted or maybe overeaten for years, eating "normally"
means roughly the number of calories your body needs to maintain - NOT reduce - its weight (see TDEE calculator below).

IMPORTANT
If you have had past diagnosed Eating Disorders or serious MH problems you should NOT do 5:2 or any other kind of fasting

ACRONYMS

16:8 is a different type of fasting, which can be combined with 5:2.
Daily zero-cal fast for 16 hours and eat within an 8 hour window. To lose weight, this needs a weekly calorie deficit as well

4:3 = fast on 3 non-consecutive days per week

ADF (Alternate-Day Fasting) = fast every other day

b2b (optional) back-to-back / consecutive fast days, each with an increased allowance of 650 calories instead of 500

BMI (Body Mass Index) healthy range is 18.5 - 24.9 for Caucasians. Upper limit may be 22 for some of Asian origin.

FD = single Fast Day: aim for 500 calories (600 for men or 25% TDEE whichever is higher) or 1000 cals for BF
No alcohol or junk on FDs
Even if you exercise strenuously, do NOT increase FD cals to allow for exercise

MFP = My Fitness Pal, a useful App or website to track food & drink calories

miniFD = MiniFD, 850- 1000 calories, no alcohol or junk

NFD = Non-Fast Day, averages around TDEE

NSV / LSV = Non Scale Victory / LifeStyle (change) Victory, e.g. compliment, smaller waist, clothes size

SV = Scale Victory

TDEE = Total Daily Energy Expenditure, the average number of calories you burn in a day, is calculated (see calculators below) from your current weight, height, age, activity level.
Aim to average about this for NFDs.

WOE / WOL = Way Of Eating / Way Of Life. We say this instead of "diet", to emphasise that we must make a permanent change in how we eat, to mainitain our new healthy weight longterm.

HOW TO START

. Take initial measurements: weight, waist, hips
. Use TDEE calculator below if you need a rough guide to how much to eat on NFDs
. Choose any 2 days for FDs, non-consecutive is easier.
. Before each FD: plan, shop & calorie count ALL food & drink for the day

Useful Resources & Calculators

Calorie Counter: mfp
Rough Calories for NFD: Mosely TDEE Calc (exercisers: set activity level to one below what you think)
BMI: Calc
Body Frame Size: Calc
Goal Weight For BodyFrame
Calc
Body Fat: BFat Calc
Choose / Visualise Goal Weight:
3D BMI body types ripped to normal
Bod Vis Measurements & 3D rotate]]

Safe Alcohol Calc: Calc Units Cals

FD Recipes:
Mosely LowCarb , low carb Diet Doc
BBC Good Food 52 , BBC Good Food 500 cal meals ,
Good2Know , Foodie Under 200 Cals
Vegetarian ,

FD Ready Meals, Fast Food

Any Day:
Meal Planner

FAQs / Tips

  • WATER: Start each day with a glass of water; and drink plenty during the day.
  • HOT DRINKS: No limits on tea or coffee, but on FDs count any milk / sugar calories.
  • SLEEP: Try to get enough sleep, or it may slow weight loss.
  • EXERCISE: is healthy & can help weight loss - BUT only if you do NOT eat back less than you burn. Fasted training can burn more fat.
HIIT and resistance training both work well with 5:2/IF.
  • FDs: If possible, choose days when you are busy, but not preparing meals for others.
Concentrate on protein & veg; avoid sugar or fruit juice. e.g. Stir-fries, soups & stews. Ready meals are OK.
  • BFers: start with 1000-cal FDs, optionally reduce to 700 cals gradually.
You can return to 1000 if growth spurts or sleep-deprivation require more fuel.
  • NFDs: No rules, but to improve health, try to cut down on added sugar & junk food, keep alcohol within safe limits. A few treats per week are fine.
  • Do NOT fast: if you've ever had EDs, or if pregnant, under 21, over-stressed, fever, stomach bug, even a bad cold.
  • CHECK with your Doctor: if you have diabetes, any other endocrine condition, any serious past or present medical condition, or if taking ANY prescribed medication (fasting may affect absorption rate)

Scientific Evidence for Fasting & Health

BBC article on the original Horizon program

Telegraph comments on 5:2 and gives a brief overview by Dr Mosley, useful for newbies.

This InterviewPart1 and InterviewPart2 with leading ADF researcher Dr Varady explains why fasting helps you to lose weight AND improves some health markers.

Fasting boosts "autophagy" = recycling of old cells
Yoshinori Ohsumi won the 2016 Nobel prize for Medicine for research into autophagy
NOBEL Lecture “Autophagy – An Intracellular Recycling System”

Prof. R Taylor (Newcastle Uni) won the 2013 Diabetes UK Banting Prize for his Twin Cycle Hypothesis re the cause of type 2 diabetes: Twin Cycle Hypothesis T2
and showed a fasting diet could reverse T2

Dr Michelle Harvie (funded by cancer charities) showed possible benefits of intermittent fasting compared to standard daily calorie reduction in her trials (consecutive FDs) with women at high risk of breast cancer: ComparingDiets , EarlierResearch52

Dr Johnson showed intermittent fasting helped Asthma

HORMESIS & Why Intermittent Fasting Works: Mattson , BlackSwan and Hormesis

Molecular Mechanisms and Clinical Applications: J CellMetabolism
Recent research into the health benefits of fasting: e.g. by world-respected neuroscientist Dr MarkMattson (Mosely referred to his research) showed:

. Improved glucose regulation
. Loss of abdominal fat with maintenance of muscle mass
. Reduced blood pressure and heart rate
. Improved learning and memory and motor function
. Protection of neurons in the brain against dysfunction and degeneration in animal models of Alzheimer’s disease, Parkinson’s disease, stroke and Huntington’s disease.

Brain metabolism in health, aging, andneurodegeneration :
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

He compared 5:2 to ordinary daily diets on overweight women with family history of breast cancer.
Fasting group lost more belly fat, retained more muscle & had slightly better blood sugar regulation.

More of his research is in HealthyAging , Health , AvoidParkinsonsDisease

His article in J Aging Mech Disease 2015 explains the health benefits of intermittent fasting in great scientific detail.

Why intermittent fasting and stopping snacking can lower your risk of serious diseases:
Meal frequency and timing in health and disease

Fasting can help maintain brain health during aging:
emboj.embopress.org/content/36/11/1474
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

This interview with leading researchers into fasting in combination with standard cancer treatment: ScientificDiscussion MoselyMattsonLongo and a LongoInterview

NY Times Fasting Overview

Research by other US and European scientists in this DailyTelegraph Article about the medicinal uses of fasting, for many serious conditions & diseases.

Recent trials with Type 2 diabetics and those at risk of having it used a form of daily fasting - skipping supper.
Their conclusions: eating 1-2 meals per day is better than several small meals for losing weight and controlling insulin levels, see Type2Paper

OP posts:
Thread gallery
13
FlyingByTheSeatof · 15/09/2020 11:11

So far today I've just had tea and coffee. Later I'll have yogurt and berries. Dinner will be the same as yesterday as I have all the ingredients but I'll add spinach and won't be having prawn crackers. In fact I'll grate some cauliflower now so it an dry out a bit

BigChocFrenzy · 15/09/2020 20:51

How are you doing, What, Moonlight, Flying

OP posts:
Beautiful3 · 15/09/2020 21:24

Hi guys! Kitchen closed at 479. Who's with me tomorrow?

moonlight1705 · 15/09/2020 21:33

Kitchen closed on 639 and really feeling the hunger today. Off to bed soon!

FlyingByTheSeatof · 15/09/2020 21:35

Doing well at 763 cals BigChocFrenzy and still feeling full after dinner ages ago which was similar to yesterday, chicken and veg with cauliflower rice but I changed it up a bit flavour wise. I'm enjoying cooking for this WOE now that I've got used to it more. My carbs are high though today but that's because I made a lemon drizzle cake for the DC and had a small slice.

How are you doing? What did you have for dinner tonight?

Cornishbelle · 15/09/2020 21:41

Can I please join? I definitely need this, bordering on prediabetes so planning 5:2 to shift some weight fast that has not disappeared since dd born 2 years ago!

Coffeeandcookies · 15/09/2020 23:21

FD done, 603 calories. Fantastic progress being made by so many people on this thread, well done for all the SV and NSVs! Great encouragement and advice as well, fabulous support for us all to keep going!!

BigChocFrenzy · 15/09/2020 23:55

Well done, Beaut, moonlight, flying, coffee

Welcome, Cornish 🙂
Intermittent fasting is a good way to tackle pre-T2

When is your 1st FD ?

It helps to plan your FD menu for the day in advance
Also, glug a level teasp Marmite (10 cals) mid-morning and / or afternoon, to help avoid headaches while adjusting to fasting - it replenshes minerals that may be low on FDs until your body adapts

Lots of info in the OP,
but the main tip is never snack between meals on NFDs - have any NFD "treat" as part of a meal

OP posts:
BigChocFrenzy · 16/09/2020 00:01

Flying My NFD supper was mackerel with mustard dressing, broccoli rice, tomato, leek, peppers, aubergine, zucchini
plus pud - a low carb tortilla wrap with Manuka honey, grated cheese, walnuts

OP posts:
MadauntofA · 16/09/2020 07:21

Welcome Cornish!
FD here, who's joining me?

lightlypoached · 16/09/2020 07:55

@Beautiful3 I'm on a Fast800 again today so I'm with you.

Breakfast : homemade spicy beans.
Lunch: tuna salad nicoise
Dinner: . TBC

Did 750 cals yesterday, 30 mins of yoga and 1 hour of fast cha cha cha practice and a full day of work, so went to bed at 9.30and slept for 8 and a half hours. Smile

Weight this morning : 60.9kg, target 59kg

Anyone else find they sleep lots on fast days?

MadauntofA · 16/09/2020 09:06

Sounds like a busy day Lightly! I find I still don't sleep properly on FDs, though it is getting better as my body adapts - combination of bladder being full and hunger setting in wakes me at 5am next day! Strangely after my black coffee the morning after, I don't feel so hungry.

Cornishbelle · 16/09/2020 09:30

Thank you, brill tip about the marmite! Going to spend the next few days reducing carbs in general and plan first fd tues next week when got an easyish day at work I think.

Good luck to everyone fd today

FlyingByTheSeatof · 16/09/2020 09:31

Fast 800 today too. @lightlypoached sounds like you'll hit your target weight in no time.
I made chicken stock overnight in my crockpot so I'll be using that today. I might make a ramen with what I've got in the fridge - eggs, courgette, red pepper and cabbage. I'll bake some swede with the stock too.
I think maybe I've not fried the cauliflower rice long enough because I've had heartburn for 2 days now on and off. I might microwave it first ?!? It's the only thing I can think is causing it.

Whattodowithaminute · 16/09/2020 10:13

Great work on the FD all round and some good menu inspiration too. I made some Thai butternut Squash soup yesterday in preparation for lunches to start on Monday. Meal planning for the week too. When I was doing 5:2 before I did my FD when DH was out in the evenings-he’s at home all the time now so I’ll need much more resilience to avoid temptations.... Trying to avoid snacking this week so it isn’t as much of a shock next week! It’s been so easy to slip into bad habits during lockdown...

FlyingByTheSeatof · 16/09/2020 10:37

Yes snacking is a tricky one @Whattodowithaminute. I find with most things I can look at it and think I'll have it later and end up forgetting about it yet occasionally before I know it I've popped it straight into my mouth. We had a tub of heroes which has very small chocs wrapped up so one of those felt like a big deal but was actually quite low in calories. It was for the DC so I made myself feel like I was stealing from them if I had one or two or three. I ended up dividing them all between them so they could squirrel them away in their room from me, but they thought from each other.

KylieKoKo · 16/09/2020 10:45

I am fasting today too.

On the menu is

Meal 1 Miso soup, spinach, tomato, red cabbage, clemetime

Meal 2: Cod (Young's cod fillets are only 67 cals), steamed brocolli, sugar snap peas & red cabbage. Handful of raw baby spinach

Snacks if I need them in the evening: Boiled egg, low cal tomato and basil cupasoup

Along with black coffee and gallons of herbal teal

BigChocFrenzy · 16/09/2020 11:02

Good luck today, Madaunt, Poached, Flying, Kylie

Snacking - even "healthy snacks like fruit or nuts - is a habit that tends to cause weight gain , as it keeps your insulin levels high all day
This increases overall hunger and hinders fat-burning

It's almost impossible to snack sometimes and not others
So aim for zero tolerance on NFDs, on weekends too and even on holiday

If you are absolutely desperate to chew something, sugar-free gum helps,
or even allow yourself Raw veg, no dip or sauce, nothing else

Absolutely fine to have treats on NFDs - wine choc, cake, biscuits, crisps, fancy lattes etc - but just save them to have as part of a meal, as a side or pud

That's an evening minimeal, Kylie not a snack, so don't worry

OP posts:
KylieKoKo · 16/09/2020 11:29

Thanks @BigChocFrenzy - I find that I can't sleep if I am hungry so I save a few calories for the evening so I don't end up lying in bed dreaming of burgers until I raid the fridge at 2am.

FlyingByTheSeatof · 16/09/2020 11:42

Here's a photo of my very filling, easy and quick to make Ramen type soup. It's just stock boiled up for a few minutes with thinly sliced veg in this case white cabbage, courgette and red peppers. Topped with 2 eggs. Could be ham, chicken or bacon etc. I added soy sauce and lemon juice to give it a lovely oriental flavour, fish sauce would be a great addition too. It came to 244 calories and was super filling.

5:2 Thread number 92: Don’t train to be skinny Train to be a lean bad ass. Come join the bad asses
KylieKoKo · 16/09/2020 12:23

@FlyingByTheSeatof that looks lovely.

I make something similar but add chillis for spice and have prawns as my protein. Using miso as the broth makes it super filling as well.

BigChocFrenzy · 16/09/2020 12:28

That looks gorgeous, Flying

I do a Mediteranean soup with the same idea:

A base of butternut squash soup
add boiled egg yolks / prawns / tinned tuna (in brine, not oil)
plus cherry tomatoes, dried Mediteranean veg, garlic, lemon, sprinkling of flaked almonds

On NFDs, I add a tbsp of organic fish oil, to make it really lush and have it with rye bread

OP posts:
FlyingByTheSeatof · 16/09/2020 12:53

@KylieKoKo and @BigChocFrenzy

Yes chilli, miso and garlic are also great to add flavour. I use those in most dishes too. I'm a big fan of paprika which also goes in a lot of my dishes.

KylieKoKo · 16/09/2020 14:16

As we're sharing food pictures, all of this is less than 90 calories! And it's very tasty and crunchy.

5:2 Thread number 92: Don’t train to be skinny Train to be a lean bad ass. Come join the bad asses
BigChocFrenzy · 16/09/2020 14:49

That's brilliant for 90, Kylie

OP posts: