Meet the Other Phone. Child-safe in minutes.

Meet the Other Phone.
Child-safe in minutes.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Fasting / 5:2 diet

Talk about intermittent fasting and 5:2, including what’s worked for others. Mumsnet hasn't checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. You may wish to speak to a medical professional before starting any diet.

5:2 Thread number 92: Don’t train to be skinny Train to be a lean bad ass. Come join the bad asses

999 replies

BigChocFrenzy · 06/08/2020 15:19

Welcome to the continuing thread for those following 5:2 or other forms of IF (Intermittent Fasting) such as 4:3, ADF, or daily 16:8 Smile

The 5:2 diet was introduced by Michael Mosely on BBC Horizon on August 2012:

Basically it is 2 very low cal days ("fasts") per week - which need not be consecutive - and eat "normally" to maintain on the other 5 days.

For those who have dieted or maybe overeaten for years, eating "normally"
means roughly the number of calories your body needs to maintain - NOT reduce - its weight (see TDEE calculator below).

IMPORTANT
If you have had past diagnosed Eating Disorders or serious MH problems you should NOT do 5:2 or any other kind of fasting

ACRONYMS

16:8 is a different type of fasting, which can be combined with 5:2.
Daily zero-cal fast for 16 hours and eat within an 8 hour window. To lose weight, this needs a weekly calorie deficit as well

4:3 = fast on 3 non-consecutive days per week

ADF (Alternate-Day Fasting) = fast every other day

b2b (optional) back-to-back / consecutive fast days, each with an increased allowance of 650 calories instead of 500

BMI (Body Mass Index) healthy range is 18.5 - 24.9 for Caucasians. Upper limit may be 22 for some of Asian origin.

FD = single Fast Day: aim for 500 calories (600 for men or 25% TDEE whichever is higher) or 1000 cals for BF
No alcohol or junk on FDs
Even if you exercise strenuously, do NOT increase FD cals to allow for exercise

MFP = My Fitness Pal, a useful App or website to track food & drink calories

miniFD = MiniFD, 850- 1000 calories, no alcohol or junk

NFD = Non-Fast Day, averages around TDEE

NSV / LSV = Non Scale Victory / LifeStyle (change) Victory, e.g. compliment, smaller waist, clothes size

SV = Scale Victory

TDEE = Total Daily Energy Expenditure, the average number of calories you burn in a day, is calculated (see calculators below) from your current weight, height, age, activity level.
Aim to average about this for NFDs.

WOE / WOL = Way Of Eating / Way Of Life. We say this instead of "diet", to emphasise that we must make a permanent change in how we eat, to mainitain our new healthy weight longterm.

HOW TO START

. Take initial measurements: weight, waist, hips
. Use TDEE calculator below if you need a rough guide to how much to eat on NFDs
. Choose any 2 days for FDs, non-consecutive is easier.
. Before each FD: plan, shop & calorie count ALL food & drink for the day

Useful Resources & Calculators

Calorie Counter: mfp
Rough Calories for NFD: Mosely TDEE Calc (exercisers: set activity level to one below what you think)
BMI: Calc
Body Frame Size: Calc
Goal Weight For BodyFrame
Calc
Body Fat: BFat Calc
Choose / Visualise Goal Weight:
3D BMI body types ripped to normal
Bod Vis Measurements & 3D rotate]]

Safe Alcohol Calc: Calc Units Cals

FD Recipes:
Mosely LowCarb , low carb Diet Doc
BBC Good Food 52 , BBC Good Food 500 cal meals ,
Good2Know , Foodie Under 200 Cals
Vegetarian ,

FD Ready Meals, Fast Food

Any Day:
Meal Planner

FAQs / Tips

  • WATER: Start each day with a glass of water; and drink plenty during the day.
  • HOT DRINKS: No limits on tea or coffee, but on FDs count any milk / sugar calories.
  • SLEEP: Try to get enough sleep, or it may slow weight loss.
  • EXERCISE: is healthy & can help weight loss - BUT only if you do NOT eat back less than you burn. Fasted training can burn more fat.
HIIT and resistance training both work well with 5:2/IF.
  • FDs: If possible, choose days when you are busy, but not preparing meals for others.
Concentrate on protein & veg; avoid sugar or fruit juice. e.g. Stir-fries, soups & stews. Ready meals are OK.
  • BFers: start with 1000-cal FDs, optionally reduce to 700 cals gradually.
You can return to 1000 if growth spurts or sleep-deprivation require more fuel.
  • NFDs: No rules, but to improve health, try to cut down on added sugar & junk food, keep alcohol within safe limits. A few treats per week are fine.
  • Do NOT fast: if you've ever had EDs, or if pregnant, under 21, over-stressed, fever, stomach bug, even a bad cold.
  • CHECK with your Doctor: if you have diabetes, any other endocrine condition, any serious past or present medical condition, or if taking ANY prescribed medication (fasting may affect absorption rate)

Scientific Evidence for Fasting & Health

BBC article on the original Horizon program

Telegraph comments on 5:2 and gives a brief overview by Dr Mosley, useful for newbies.

This InterviewPart1 and InterviewPart2 with leading ADF researcher Dr Varady explains why fasting helps you to lose weight AND improves some health markers.

Fasting boosts "autophagy" = recycling of old cells
Yoshinori Ohsumi won the 2016 Nobel prize for Medicine for research into autophagy
NOBEL Lecture “Autophagy – An Intracellular Recycling System”

Prof. R Taylor (Newcastle Uni) won the 2013 Diabetes UK Banting Prize for his Twin Cycle Hypothesis re the cause of type 2 diabetes: Twin Cycle Hypothesis T2
and showed a fasting diet could reverse T2

Dr Michelle Harvie (funded by cancer charities) showed possible benefits of intermittent fasting compared to standard daily calorie reduction in her trials (consecutive FDs) with women at high risk of breast cancer: ComparingDiets , EarlierResearch52

Dr Johnson showed intermittent fasting helped Asthma

HORMESIS & Why Intermittent Fasting Works: Mattson , BlackSwan and Hormesis

Molecular Mechanisms and Clinical Applications: J CellMetabolism
Recent research into the health benefits of fasting: e.g. by world-respected neuroscientist Dr MarkMattson (Mosely referred to his research) showed:

. Improved glucose regulation
. Loss of abdominal fat with maintenance of muscle mass
. Reduced blood pressure and heart rate
. Improved learning and memory and motor function
. Protection of neurons in the brain against dysfunction and degeneration in animal models of Alzheimer’s disease, Parkinson’s disease, stroke and Huntington’s disease.

Brain metabolism in health, aging, andneurodegeneration :
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

He compared 5:2 to ordinary daily diets on overweight women with family history of breast cancer.
Fasting group lost more belly fat, retained more muscle & had slightly better blood sugar regulation.

More of his research is in HealthyAging , Health , AvoidParkinsonsDisease

His article in J Aging Mech Disease 2015 explains the health benefits of intermittent fasting in great scientific detail.

Why intermittent fasting and stopping snacking can lower your risk of serious diseases:
Meal frequency and timing in health and disease

Fasting can help maintain brain health during aging:
emboj.embopress.org/content/36/11/1474
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

This interview with leading researchers into fasting in combination with standard cancer treatment: ScientificDiscussion MoselyMattsonLongo and a LongoInterview

NY Times Fasting Overview

Research by other US and European scientists in this DailyTelegraph Article about the medicinal uses of fasting, for many serious conditions & diseases.

Recent trials with Type 2 diabetics and those at risk of having it used a form of daily fasting - skipping supper.
Their conclusions: eating 1-2 meals per day is better than several small meals for losing weight and controlling insulin levels, see Type2Paper

OP posts:
Thread gallery
13
moonlight1705 · 09/09/2020 08:41

Morning everyone, sounds like you have all had a busy few days.

I am starting day 1 of my b2b FDs so have got a green bean and lentil salad following by sesame salmon and broccoli for dinner.

I had a bit of a blow out yesterday which I am feeling slightly bad about, however, my new non judgemental brain is saying that it was only one day and get back on the 5:2 WOL.

KylieKoKo · 09/09/2020 10:09

My second fast day is today. I am making myself a black coffee at the moment to start off the day.

On the menu is

Miso soup, an egg, strawberries, roast courgette, tomato, mushroom and aubergine (with olive oil spray) and spicy prawn soup with loads of veg.

Having learned a lesson from last time I will be having a mug of miso soup just before bed so I don't go to bed starving hungry

Then I am done for my first week.

BigChocFrenzy · 09/09/2020 10:46

Well done on your FDs yesterday, Poached, coffee

Good luck today, Kylie, moonlight

Sounds a good healthy menu, Kylie
Best to have the strawberries with one of your meals, not on their own - always have some protein with fruit

Just move on, moonlight
We don't do guilt about food here and one day means nothing in a longterm WOL

That's good the WOE suits you, MadAunt, beaut
Many women peri / post-meno have found that 5:2 works when other weight loss methods no longer do

OP posts:
KylieKoKo · 09/09/2020 11:08

@BigChocFrenz I have a lunch time spin class so was going to have the strawberries before I will also have a miso to add some protein

Beautiful3 · 09/09/2020 13:58

Hi lightly poached, welcome to the group.🤗

Beautiful3 · 09/09/2020 16:59

Kitchen closed at 620.

moonlight1705 · 09/09/2020 19:53

Kitchen closed on 710 today, slightly over what I wanted but had a banana for breakfast.

KylieKoKo · 09/09/2020 19:54

I'm all done for today (apart from a mug of Miso before bed if I'm feeling too hungry to sleep) at 524 calories.

Not feeling too bad but I'm glad I don't have to think about it again til next week

lightlypoached · 09/09/2020 20:20

@Beautiful3 thanks Smile

You've all done incredibly well with the low calories. It's a slog but worth it.

I was meant to be on an 800 day but work was so busy I missed luncheon only 600 today.
B: porridge with water, banana and peanut butter
D:small bowl of leftover ratatouille and melted mozzarella (for the protein Grin)

Followed by 1 hour of very vigorous cha cha cha in my dance lesson.

Weighed in just before dancing at 60.8.

Target for Friday is 60kg

Total loss on veryfast so far (day 19) is 3.7kg That's equivalent to nearly 15 blocks of butter ShockConfused FIFTEEN!!!!

When's weigh in for everyone else?

lightlypoached · 09/09/2020 20:22

* 'missed lunch so* ' not 'luncheon !! I'm not that posh Grin

KylieKoKo · 09/09/2020 20:34

"D"P is currently cooking himself a delicious meal. It smells amazing. Bastard.

I'm going to get in the bath to distract myself.

KylieKoKo · 09/09/2020 20:38

@lightlypoached well done on your weight loss!

How often are you guys weighing yourselves? I was thinking of doing it on the morning of my first fasting day each week and the morning after my last.

PersisFord · 09/09/2020 20:46

I weigh on Thursday mornings and fast Monday and Wednesday. I reckon that’s my lightest day of the week! More than once a week winds me up.

Well done everyone, a very impressive start to the week. Excellent SV lightly

I’ve just done a 30 minute High Intensity spin class. It’s more than 24 hours since I ate and when I exercise fasted it makes me all giggly and silly. Veg soup heating up then options salted caramel and early night!

Weigh in tomorrow. After my bad week last week I’m hoping for a steady state....

BigChocFrenzy · 09/09/2020 21:22

When weighing,
it's important to do so under consistent conditions
Most reliable to document weight trend
Weigh naked in the morning after FD2, first thing after loo, but before you eat or drink anything

Well done on your FD, Beaut, moonlight, poached, Kylie, Persis

OP posts:
MadauntofA · 09/09/2020 21:26

Well done a Wednesday fasters! Mini for me tomorrow. That's a great loss lightly!
I tend to weigh on a Monday morning before my 1st FD of the week, any more than that and I go a bit bonkers seeing the inevitable ups and downs of the week! Some weeks I haven't lost anything, but Bigchoc has given me the reassurance that plateaus happen and if you carry on, it does start going down again. Last time I tried this a couple of years ago, I lost weight initially then stalled for a few weeks and so gave up. I think reframing this as a WOL that you adjust to how much you want to lose weight compared to doing it for the health benefits is helping me.

KylieKoKo · 10/09/2020 09:57

I just weighed myself after my second fast day and I'm 1.6 pounds less than I was before my first fast day. I'm sure some of it will go back on over the weekend though.

Waspie · 10/09/2020 10:45

Well done lightly, great SV! And you too Kylie, well done.

I'm fasting today, anyone else?

I had a plateau of almost a month Madaunt, it was really making me question my resolve. Instead of stopping 5:2 I stopped weighing myself and just went by how my clothes felt. When I knew my clothes were baggier I got back on the scales and had lost weight. Now I just weigh myself if I want to and only about once a month. I find it less stressful. I know I'm getting thinner because my clothes are loser and my silhouette is less Alfred Hitchcock these days Grin

So, my usual boring FD menu of back coffee and long walk with the dog for breakfast, chicken noodle soup for lunch and mushroom omelette and salad for supper.

Well done those of you who fasted yesterday and good luck Thursday fasters Flowers

BigChocFrenzy · 10/09/2020 12:07

Good SVs, Poached, Kylie

Kylie When I started, it took me a while to realise that I had to make my weekends sensible and not eat back the FD deficit
Now on longterm maintenance, I can eat back the deficit Smile

Good luck on your FD / mini today, MadAunt, Waspie and any other Thursday fasters

MadAunt Going by clothes fit is a good system if you get discouraged / stressed by scales

OP posts:
lightlypoached · 10/09/2020 13:26

@BigChocFrenzy @Waspie @mad I'm on a fast day today so you are not alone!

B was poached eggs, avo and tomatoes from the garden.
L is very late as I'm stuck on back to back conference calls (desperately need a wee).
D more of that lovely ratatouille maybe with a chicken thigh today.

My DH has been doing this too and weighed himself for the first time today 9kg lost in 20 days!!!! Amazing.

I'm so excited about weighing and measuring myself tomorrow on day 21. Does anyone want to take bets on how many cm I've lost off wait, bum hips?

BigChocFrenzy · 10/09/2020 15:04

Good luck, poached
and congratulations to MrPoached on his SV
It is much easier when your OH joins in

OP posts:
KylieKoKo · 10/09/2020 15:14

Warning - I am about to be very nerdy.

I have set up a spreadsheet to track my weight and I am tracking morning of first fast day and the morning after the last one. I am then plotting this on to a double line graph so I can compare weight taken at the two different times easily and I can see what damage my weekend does (or doesn't) do and adjust my diet accordingly.

Is anyone else like this or I am the only data geek here?

moonlight1705 · 10/09/2020 16:03

That is a great idea kylie, I have got a spreadsheet of plain weight loss and graph but have not thought to use it to see the weekend put on.

MadauntofA · 10/09/2020 16:09

That is very geeky but I love it Kylie!
How's everyone doing today? I'm looking forward to a fish soup later

EssentialHummus · 10/09/2020 16:18

kylie not as sophisticated but I have a list and add my current weight to the bottom each week when I weigh in, with an asterisk for TOTM or a note if I’ve been on holiday or whatever else. Useful to see trends over time.

ilovebagpuss · 10/09/2020 17:00

2nd fast day of the week I really struggled on Monday and think I waited too long for evening meal.
Today has been a Diet Coke and small packet of crisps (I know terrible) but I was training someone and had no chance of a proper break. Dinner is better salmon on a bed of stir fry veggies and possibly an options hot choc in reserve.
Hope the rest of the Thursday fasters are doing ok.