Blood sugar diet and fast800 thread 20

[thenewaveragebear1983]

Thread 20, can you believe it?

Wow, the recipes on here are amazing!

Have to say, I'm really bored by food at the moment, at least for myself.

We're going to the Highlands in a couple of weeks and DH sent a few places where he is thinking of making reservations. Mostly pasta/pizza places. Need to think of a strategy being away from home where I am mostly in control of the food.

Down to 9st 9lbs this morning.

@ilovemydogandMrObama I think it's the variety of food that keeps me going to be honest. A lot of recipe books can be adapted to suit as well. I love Jamie Oliver but I often don't use his full recipe, I use his marinades and seasoning but adapt for BSD. Check out the recipe thread (linked in the opening post) and please everyone feel free to add your own favourites to there!

@Kimlek it's just a local boating lake/sailing club we're going to, never been before but we thought it sounded fun. I have real 'sea envy' at the moment, I just want to be by water!

Also @ilovemydogandMrObama I often find in pizza/pasta places that the starters are better than the mains. 2 starters maybe, with salad rather than pasta or pizza?

Thinking of the quick broccoli and bacon fry up from Blood Sugar Diet Recipe Book for lunch today. Tend to use halloumi instead of bacon. Delicious. Also very filling and sustaining. Dinner not decided.

Down another lb today! Thrilled but slightly jealous of those losing 2 at a time, those days seem long gone!

Made this pork, apple & leek dish last night from the BSD cookbook and it was delicious! I just had it with stir-fry greens!

I've decided I don't think I'm going to do much running between now & holiday. I always list best without running but with getting my 10k steps in, the running makes me ravenous, so will tackle that when we get home!

Really interesting reading about trytophan/serotonin and the link with foods, particularly explaining why simple carbs are so addictive. My DC (and DH) are all white carb fiends - pasta, rice, bread, potatoes etc. I now see it as my personal mission - duty even - to wean them off it. (Problem is, I think brown bread and brown pasta taste like shit - though I do like bulghar wheat, lentils and quinoa).

Have you read the thread on AIBU and whether being fat is a choice? I have to say, even in the short few weeks I've been on this group, my attitude has changed totally (particularly to myself), and I think @outwest described it very eloquently. For many people, myself included, I think being overweight has been a result of choices that I've made, but not always conscious choices. I didn't realise that I was addicted to white carbs, or to sugar, or to the magic carbs 2: fat 1 ratio.

@ilovemydogandmrobama2 - can you be a bit more assertive about where you eat? Pizza and pasta places are the worst, and i'm sure the highlands have a much better range of eateries...

Damage from the w/e has been undone - with a massive whoosh overnight. I am now just 2lbs off 12stone.... so close, I can almost smell it.

I also did my first 16:8 TRE yesterday - it was fine till I ate, and then it just pissed off my hunger and I ate 3/4 of my calorie allowance in one go.

@PhoenixMama totally agree, the running vs dieting balance is so hard to get right isn't it? I also have that pork and apple on my menu this week!

@WhatWillSantaBring unfortunately there's very little difference in glycemic load between brown and white varieties anyway. The 'wholegrain' 'whole meal' labelling has no legal status (a bit like 'light' as opposed to 'low fat', which does) therefore provided a product has some wholegrain in it, even if that's then pulverised and milled, they can claim it.

I have read that thread you mention and i tend to agree, being overweight is a series of choices we make. What I might say is that sometimes we don't actually have agency over our choices, through poverty, ignorance or circumstances, but it is still a choice of sorts, and we also carry the load of our parents/carers choices because of our early diets. Insulin control starts in the womb so lack of education about the real impact of sugar is really a key factor in obesity. It's such a tragedy actually that we have this situation but people seem terribly cautious about really being honest about the impact of sugar and people fiercely defend their sugar consumption as part of 'a balanced diet'; you see it on here all the time. My mum used to give me a slice of white bread if I was hungry even as a small child, I'd eat loads of it and lots of sweets/biscuits - basically because we were skint and they were exhausted! Cue years of metabolic turmoil, gestational diabetes (making my dc more prone to T2 and obesity...)- it's a vicious circle isn't it?

"Have you read the thread on AIBU and whether being fat is a choice?"

Yes . So much denial/anger. As one poster observed, issue is simple (excess calories); doesn't mean doing right thing (eating less, eating better) is easy. But it is a choice.

Ten years ago worked with friend who was much leaner than me. Accused him of "fast metabolism". No, he was just eating less, especially at home. Now realise I was wrong (in denial), but easy to get into mindset that different outcomes must be result of special circumstances, not primarily food choices.

Most people aren't special. Most don't have "fast metabolism" to allow them to "cheat" their way to being slim. Most don't have genuine medical conditions to make them fat. Most overweight people have made wrong choices in small ways over days, months, or longer. Tiny calorific excess translates to several stone over period of years. Reverse also holds, of course. Just hard to engineer consistent deficit.

But redemption always possible. Always a second, or third act. Blood Sugar Diet in short term and 5:2 fasting longer term might be way forward. Have bought Jason Fung "Complete Guide to Fasting". Will read.

Sorry, come over all loquacious.

Oh obama you’ve done so well. Can’t possibly ruin it with pizza & pasta places. Jump on tripadvisor for some better ideas. Book in advance etc.

@outwest yes, most people eat themselves to overweight. But it's not always a tremendous amount. We realise very quickly on this plan that it's what you eat that matters most.

In that vein, Here's a little game I like to play (you need a piece of paper and a calculator if you want to work yours out!) - so...

I'm 37 (next week) and say 3 years ago I was 3 stone heavier than I am now, so 42 lbs overweight. So from the age of 18-34 I gained 42lbs.
That's 42lb in 192 months
Now assume a lb of fat = 3500 cals (accepted wisdom) so that's 147,000 cals over 192 months - which works out at less than 800 additional/ unburned calories a month. That's basically a bottle of wine. It's certainly not a Mac Donald's or chippie takeaway.
The difference between being overweight and normal Weight is basically zero. It defies belief that anyone is actually not overweight. Unless we tap into the homeostatic, chemical balance of our bodies it is virtually
Impossible to gauge out calories in/calories out to that fine a margin. There is something chemically different in naturally thin people to overweight people (either nature or nurture or both) because I promise you, my thin friends do not count calories to that detail. (They eat. They stop). I guarantee that Fitbit and other trackers have a margin of error greater than 800 calories over a month. So it must, must, must be more than just calories in- calories out. Put very simply, sugar (fructose) switches off your body's control panel so it stops listening to those calories. This diet, or any low carb diet, switches us back on.

I know that's a very simplistic example but to me it really hits home what a tightrope we walk and it opened my eyes to this new way of thinking when I switched from traditional dieting to this new fangled 'crash diet' (3 years ago it was a lot less accepted than it is now!). I will add, I never post this sort of stuff on those types of threads because quite frankly people don't want to hear it. But we know the secret!

Can someone please help me?!

I have been sticking to 800 calories, low carb (no more than 35g per day) and 18hr fast for 2 weeks today. I have lost 9lbs in total but the scales have not moved in the last 4 days 😢 I tried other diets/ healthy eating previously this year and this is the weight I get stuck at.. its like my scales are broken and won't go below! I did have some birthday cake last week but did 24hr fast after to try and clear sugar.

I know it won't be linear but just to stall 2 weeks in? Can't be physically possible with what I'm eating can it?

Ok Bear - I'm playing your game.

I'm 45 but last year I was my highest and at 28 I was my lowest so I worked it out over 16 years as well. In those 16 years I gained 95lbs or 2.02lbs a month and was 332,500 calories.

I also worked it out as 16 years = 5840 days so it works out to roughly 57cals a day.

But I also know that's not the truth because I gained the majority of my weight very quickly from medication (after pregnancy) and not from directly eating extra calls per se...

"I promise you, my thin friends do not count calories to that detail. (They eat. They stop)."
Wife is same. Knows how far to go, stops. Some people have good intuitive grasp of what and how much to eat and drink. But still think most overweight people not edge cases, just eating too much and too much of wrong things.

Case in point: wife (not white, British or European) discovered baking in summer 2018. Made me fab Eton Mess several times (!) a week. Enjoyed seeing me enjoy it. Weight rose by 5kg in 6 weeks. Nothing subtle about that. Not edge case. Many others surely in same boat. Hyperbolic discounting issue - prioritise short-term reward, de-emphasise longer term consequences. Humans are not rational.

But as more general point agree CICO and "eat less move more" unhelpful & reductive. Replace with "Eat better, eat less, eat less often"?

"So it must, must, must be more than just calories in- calories out."

Seems to be nascent consensus in non-mainstream nutrition that insulin-leptin-ghrelin chain disruption is culprit, driven by massive increase in HFCS use, emergence of "must never feel hungry" dogma, rise of snacking, growth in portion size? Would explain why 40 years ago obesity simply not an issue, but is now.

mswibblewobble our bodies definitely do have a ‘set weight’ and it’s really normal to lose then stall. Everyone has a different theory to what might budge the stall. Some say going off plan for a day. Others say adding some extra exercise, particularly resistance.

I think you could do something extreme like a 36 hour fast but you will ping back up again after breaking it. So my advice would be consistency and not getting bogged down by the scale. Just keep doing what you’re doing and it will no doubt move down again in time.

@mswibblewobble It's totally normal to stall a bit two weeks in - I think most of us have. It's just a plateau and you just have to stick to the plan and eventually you will have your whoosh. Are you getting enough water (3+Ls) and enough salt? I've found that upping my salt can help move things along...

Am on the fence about the strict calorie in/calorie out.

Was always fairly slim, never needed to think about weight, cycled most places.

Factor in 3 pregnancies, less activity, working from home, etc am/was 2 stone heavier, which obviously by limiting calories is resulting in the scales going downward, there is a cumulative effect from the last 10 years.

About Scotland - they are opening up restaurants now, so fingers crossed there will be more variety. Once we get to the cottage in the Scottish Islands, won't be a problem as we have a self catering cottage, just the overnight stay mid way which may be slightly problematic, but trying not to make it as issue.

Its funny how something so simple (calories in > calories out = weight gain) can be so complicated, and I think that is the point that the never-overweight don't realise. There is something about them which means that it is not a difficult balance, because I also know that many of my healthy weight friends "do not count calories to that detail" - they can do it naturally and without thinking. Although I also know know of some friends with beautiful figures who do have to work at it Every. Single. Day. which is also important to remember, as it's knowing that the changes I'm making have to be for life.

@outwest in that summer that you gained 5kg in 6 weeks (ha ha, I could gain 5kg in one week, very easily), did your wife gain weight? If so, what is it about her (her metabolism, her subconscious, her conscious) that stopped her? [That's a rhetorical/general question, not asking for specifics about your wife].

Sooooo, thinking ahead. When I get to a healthy weight (i.e. BMI of 25 which for me is 11st 11) at the end of this month My happy weight is 11 st 3. I'll have already lost 3st in five months doing 800 cals a day (mostly). I can't decide whether to try to stabilise at the 11.11 mark and do a 5:2/Mediterranean diet for a few months, or to push on. I am very concerned about gaining weight again as I know that my self-control is still not hard-wired in, so I wonder if trying to work on stabilising would be better for me long term.

@PhoenixMama but that's exactly my point. You Weight gain was due to your chemistry, and not your consumption. If you gained X pounds in a short time during that 16 years , you must have had significant periods of time when you were actually in deficit, but overall the result was weight gain. I don't like to shine a spotlight on you particularly as an example, but something during that period of medication changed your chemistry, you certainly didn't gain weight eating an average of 57 additional calories a day.

Consider how steroids make us gain weight, or SSRI's, or insulin injections, or the contraceptive pill... (or the implant which I know is an absolute killer for weight gain), or the menopause...it's all chemicals, causing insulin resistance, causing weight gain. I have PCOS which is a known cause of weight gain, but scratch the surface and it's insulin resistance, caused by ovarian cysts increasing testosterone. Traditional low fat high carb diets do not work because they do not deal with the insulin resistance.

So going way back to the concept of the obesogenic environment, the chemicals in our modern food are designed, dare I say it, engineered, to promote weight gain and override our control panel. "Once you pop, you can't stop! "
Fructose, in everything. Stripping of fibre. Removal of natural healthy fat. Huge portions. And just sugar sugar sugar everywhere. It really is no wonder that we (society) are in this condition and it's actually shocking that there isn't more being done to halt it. Although I do believe the tides are turning a bit, more and more people are switching to lower carb and shops are responding with better food options so hopefully it will continue.

I’m thinking about doing the 5:2 forever - I find 800 cals relatively doable and the recipes are yummy, I think I could manage it okay.
I’m not entirely sure how I put my weight on really, I’ve always been slim and eaten whatever I wanted and drank quite a lot, but suddenly over the past year I’ve gained a stone and a half, and until I started this WOE it was pretty stubbornly sticking to me despite calorie counting and exercise.
Giving up smoking seems to have been a big factor even though I don’t think I ate any more!

@mswibblewobble See attached "warts and all" chart. Shows my weight from early May to this morning. Grey is individual daily values, red is trend (smoothed version). Have stuck rigidly to diet, but still not at all straight line! Note little plateaux, reversals. All annoying, but short-lived. Patience only option.

@WhatWillSantaBring To answer rhetorical question re wife stopping, not sure if it is even conscious process with her. If I asked her, probably could not articulate. Re maintenance, after 5 months, perhaps time you had short "rest" while taking care not to go crazy. 5:2 looks structurally promising, use two days to reel yourself back in?

@Plancina I think that's dr Moseley's own method, doesn't he say he does one or 2 fast days every week to maintain his weight loss (but I think more specifically its to keep his blood sugars in check)

@Plancina Smoking was the killer for me! I gave up beginning of October and have steadily put weight on since regardless of what I eat. I have been tempted on more than one occasion to go back to smoking just for the weight loss 😂

I have been taking probiotics for last couple of months too. I dont know if really making any difference but I did read there was some research about gut health after quitting so thought was worth a go, plus supposed to help with fast800 too i believe?

Thanks to those who commented about the plateaus.. I am just getting impatient! Was hoping would reach 1stone in 2 weeks but stalled at 9lbs so just frustration I think!

@mswibblewobble it’s crazy isn’t it! I’m sure I don’t eat more than I used to, especially in the last 10 weeks before I started this diet when I was counting calories and eating 1700 a day (too high to lose on, it turns out but could probably maintain around there). I wonder if smoking sped up my metabolism?
I feel rubbish today after fish and chips (greasy and disappointing) and too much booze but I had a fun hen night. It was so nice to see everyone despite the cold sitting outside all evening.
Food today:
Buckets of coffee
Poached eggs, bacon, sourdough
Chilli and garlic prawns with ratatouille
Chicken and veg stir fry
Cals will be around 1250 but I need food to stop me doing the hangover binge 🤪
That fat thread is horrible - just sat and read it all.

@outwest - Looks like you have Chris Whitty's graphs of Covid 19

@ilovemydogandMrObama Rumbled!