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Fasting / 5:2 diet

Talk about intermittent fasting and 5:2, including what’s worked for others. Mumsnet hasn't checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. You may wish to speak to a medical professional before starting any diet.

5:2 Thread number 91: Keep calm and carry on to goal with our friendly support group

963 replies

BigChocFrenzy · 12/06/2020 22:41

Welcome to the continuing thread for those following 5:2 or other forms of IF (Intermittent Fasting) such as 4:3, ADF, or daily 16:8 Smile

The 5:2 diet was introduced by Michael Mosely on BBC Horizon on August 2012:

Basically it is 2 very low cal days ("fasts") per week - which need not be consecutive - and eat "normally" to maintain on the other 5 days.

For those who have dieted or maybe overeaten for years, eating "normally"
means roughly the number of calories your body needs to maintain - NOT reduce - its weight (see TDEE calculator below).

IMPORTANT
If you have had past diagnosed Eating Disorders or serious MH problems you should NOT do 5:2 or any other kind of fasting

ACRONYMS

16:8 is a different type of fasting, which can be combined with 5:2.
Daily zero-cal fast for 16 hours and eat within an 8 hour window. To lose weight, this needs a weekly calorie deficit as well

4:3 = fast on 3 non-consecutive days per week

ADF (Alternate-Day Fasting) = fast every other day

b2b (optional) back-to-back / consecutive fast days, each with an increased allowance of 650 calories instead of 500

BMI (Body Mass Index) healthy range is 18.5 - 24.9 for Caucasians. Upper limit may be 22 for some of Asian origin.

FD = single Fast Day: aim for 500 calories (600 for men or 25% TDEE whichever is higher) or 1000 cals for BF
No alcohol or junk on FDs
Even if you exercise strenuously, do NOT increase FD cals to allow for exercise

MFP = My Fitness Pal, a useful App or website to track food & drink calories

miniFD = MiniFD, 850- 1000 calories, no alcohol or junk

NFD = Non-Fast Day, averages around TDEE

NSV / LSV = Non Scale Victory / LifeStyle (change) Victory, e.g. compliment, smaller waist, clothes size

SV = Scale Victory

TDEE = Total Daily Energy Expenditure, the average number of calories you burn in a day, is calculated (see calculators below) from your current weight, height, age, activity level.
Aim to average about this for NFDs.

WOE / WOL = Way Of Eating / Way Of Life. We say this instead of "diet", to emphasise that we must make a permanent change in how we eat, to mainitain our new healthy weight longterm.

HOW TO START

. Take initial measurements: weight, waist, hips
. Use TDEE calculator below if you need a rough guide to how much to eat on NFDs
. Choose any 2 days for FDs, non-consecutive is easier.
. Before each FD: plan, shop & calorie count ALL food & drink for the day

Useful Resources & Calculators

Calorie Counter: mfp
Rough Calories for NFD: Mosely TDEE Calc (exercisers: set activity level to one below what you think)
BMI: Calc
Body Frame Size: Calc
Goal Weight For BodyFrame
Calc
Body Fat: BFat Calc
Choose / Visualise Goal Weight:
3D BMI body types ripped to normal
Bod Vis Measurements & 3D rotate]]

Safe Alcohol Calc: Calc Units Cals

FD Recipes:
Mosely LowCarb , low carb Diet Doc
BBC Good Food 52 , BBC Good Food 500 cal meals ,
Good2Know , Foodie Under 200 Cals
Vegetarian ,

FD Ready Meals, Fast Food

Any Day:
Meal Planner

FAQs / Tips

  • WATER: Start each day with a glass of water; and drink plenty during the day.
  • HOT DRINKS: No limits on tea or coffee, but on FDs count any milk / sugar calories.
  • SLEEP: Try to get enough sleep, or it may slow weight loss.
  • EXERCISE: is healthy & can help weight loss - BUT only if you do NOT eat back less than you burn. Fasted training can burn more fat.
HIIT and resistance training both work well with 5:2/IF.
  • FDs: If possible, choose days when you are busy, but not preparing meals for others.
Concentrate on protein & veg; avoid sugar or fruit juice. e.g. Stir-fries, soups & stews. Ready meals are OK.
  • BFers: start with 1000-cal FDs, optionally reduce to 700 cals gradually.
You can return to 1000 if growth spurts or sleep-deprivation require more fuel.
  • NFDs: No rules, but to improve health, try to cut down on added sugar & junk food, keep alcohol within safe limits. A few treats per week are fine.
  • Do NOT fast: if you've ever had EDs, or if pregnant, under 21, over-stressed, fever, stomach bug, even a bad cold.
  • CHECK with your Doctor: if you have diabetes, any other endocrine condition, any serious past or present medical condition, or if taking ANY prescribed medication (fasting may affect absorption rate)

Scientific Evidence for Fasting & Health

BBC article on the original Horizon program

Telegraph comments on 5:2 and gives a brief overview by Dr Mosley, useful for newbies.

This InterviewPart1 and InterviewPart2 with leading ADF researcher Dr Varady explains why fasting helps you to lose weight AND improves some health markers.

Fasting boosts "autophagy" = recycling of old cells
Yoshinori Ohsumi won the 2016 Nobel prize for Medicine for research into autophagy
NOBEL Lecture “Autophagy – An Intracellular Recycling System”

Prof. R Taylor (Newcastle Uni) won the 2013 Diabetes UK Banting Prize for his Twin Cycle Hypothesis re the cause of type 2 diabetes: Twin Cycle Hypothesis T2
and showed a fasting diet could reverse T2

Dr Michelle Harvie (funded by cancer charities) showed possible benefits of intermittent fasting compared to standard daily calorie reduction in her trials (consecutive FDs) with women at high risk of breast cancer: ComparingDiets , EarlierResearch52

Dr Johnson showed intermittent fasting helped Asthma

HORMESIS & Why Intermittent Fasting Works: Mattson , BlackSwan and Hormesis

Molecular Mechanisms and Clinical Applications: J CellMetabolism
Recent research into the health benefits of fasting: e.g. by world-respected neuroscientist Dr MarkMattson (Mosely referred to his research) showed:

. Improved glucose regulation
. Loss of abdominal fat with maintenance of muscle mass
. Reduced blood pressure and heart rate
. Improved learning and memory and motor function
. Protection of neurons in the brain against dysfunction and degeneration in animal models of Alzheimer’s disease, Parkinson’s disease, stroke and Huntington’s disease.

Brain metabolism in health, aging, andneurodegeneration :
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

He compared 5:2 to ordinary daily diets on overweight women with family history of breast cancer.
Fasting group lost more belly fat, retained more muscle & had slightly better blood sugar regulation.

More of his research is in HealthyAging , Health , AvoidParkinsonsDisease

His article in J Aging Mech Disease 2015 explains the health benefits of intermittent fasting in great scientific detail.

Why intermittent fasting and stopping snacking can lower your risk of serious diseases:
Meal frequency and timing in health and disease

Fasting can help maintain brain health during aging:
emboj.embopress.org/content/36/11/1474
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

This interview with leading researchers into fasting in combination with standard cancer treatment: ScientificDiscussion MoselyMattsonLongo and a LongoInterview

NY Times Fasting Overview

Research by other US and European scientists in this DailyTelegraph Article about the medicinal uses of fasting, for many serious conditions & diseases.

Recent trials with Type 2 diabetics and those at risk of having it used a form of daily fasting - skipping supper.
Their conclusions: eating 1-2 meals per day is better than several small meals for losing weight and controlling insulin levels, see Type2Paper

OP posts:
Thread gallery
9
FaintlyMacabre · 03/07/2020 16:06

Thanks, I know you’re right, was hoping to only calorie count 2 days a week as it’s so time consuming! But I would really like to weigh less so it will have to be done Grin

Waspie · 03/07/2020 16:53

Rushing in painfully late (apologies) to wish @BigChocFrenzy a wonderful birthday FlowersFlowersFlowers

Hope you are having a lovely day!

BigChocFrenzy · 03/07/2020 17:36

Thanks again for all the birthday wishes, you lovely lot Smile

How are the fasters doing ?

Faintly You probably only need to do it that one week to identify the issue if any

  • but not the week with the toothache !
OP posts:
robertsmithscorpsebride · 03/07/2020 18:13

Did you have a lovely lunch bigchoc 😁 hope it involved some Cake

Fd finished on 507 cals, cup of tea later if fancy it.

Not looking forward to weighing in with DH tomorrow, I'm expecting a huge loss for him!!

Beautiful3 · 03/07/2020 18:16

Finished on 494 which is good for me! Always seems to be around. That's 3 fds done this week. Glad you're having a nice day @BigChocFrenzy 😘

Beautiful3 · 03/07/2020 18:17

Always seems to be around 600, that should have said!

BigChocFrenzy · 03/07/2020 18:52

Well done on your FD, Robert, Beaut

Birthday tea included a big double choc cookie from the local Rhine cafe, made by the patisserie masterchef who owns it
and a glass of strawberry wine from the farm shop around the corner,
made from their own strawberries and trodden with their own feet Smile

OP posts:
Beautiful3 · 03/07/2020 19:36

Yummy, the cookie and strawberry wine sounds absolutely delicious 🍪🍷

robertsmithscorpsebride · 03/07/2020 19:54

Ooh that sounds delicious 😋😋😋

Fizzysours · 03/07/2020 20:33

Hi all...today was my fourth fast day and I actually enyoyed it rather than willing the day to end! I started with an apple and a white coffee at 6.30am (I know fruit is not ideal on its own) and then just black tea until 6... 400 cals spare for chicken breast, small spoon of rice and salad. Honestly...previous strategy of three tiny meals left me feeling awful from about 2pm on. Today I felt great and like this is something I can easily do!! Hope everyone else had a good day!!!

Fizzysours · 03/07/2020 20:36

And happy birthday @BigChocFrenzy 😁😁😁😁

inthethickofit19 · 03/07/2020 20:44

Happy birthday@BigChocFrenzy!! Sounds like a lovely day!

Thanks for the tips. Especially getting active after brushing teeth. Now that I'm cycling (albeit a short time, managed 5.5mins today) I can do some of that (without overdoing it and going into a full fibromyalgia flare). Or read a book. I've got this. I used to eat a lot less but since being with dh my appetite has increased/ I've been overeating so just need to rein it back in.

I also need to do something about my v loose abdominal muscles (major surgery with scar all the way across plus 2 sections, both large babies, has done it no favours). But slow and steady wins the race.

DietChic · 03/07/2020 20:57

539 for me! The chocolate cookie and strawberry wine sounds SO GOOD I could weep!

I’m pleased I squeezed in a third FD but DH has work tomorrow and the majority of Sunday so I will eat less than I thought I would. I’d forgotten he was out! I hope Monday’s weigh in will be rewarding anyhow.

Have good weekends, all!

emcla · 03/07/2020 21:00

Yum bigchoc. Sounds lovely

I went slightly over but that’s fine. Back to it on mon. Have a good weekend everyone.

BigChocFrenzy · 03/07/2020 23:03

Well done on your FD, Chic, emcla, Fizzy

That's good you are developing a system that suits you, Fizzy
3 tiny meals tends to make most people hungrier than 1-2 meals

Most folk on 500 cal FDs skip breakfast - just black coffee - to save up calories for later.
Some have several teas & coffee during the day with a drizzle of skimmed milk

OP posts:
Waspie · 03/07/2020 23:06

That sounds lovely @BigChocFrenzy Strawberry wine sounds particularly yummy Wine

Well done Friday fasters!

Have a great weekend everyone 🙂

BigChocFrenzy · 03/07/2020 23:12

That's good you are progressing carefully with cycling, inthethick
and you sound positive
Before you do any specific abs exercise, I recommend checking with your doctor first
If you get the all-clear, I can suggest some routines

Many women put on weight when they move in with a male OH,
because he will usually have a much higher TDEE and hence eat more
so the woman unconsciously increases her portions, or joins the snacking

Remember - male & female 5:2ers: no snacking, ever !

OP posts:
BigChocFrenzy · 03/07/2020 23:13

Enjoy your weekend, Waspie

OP posts:
MadauntofA · 04/07/2020 07:45

Morning everyone!
I know you say don't every snack - I'm fine in the morning, and once I have had dinner, but I have a danger zone at around 5.30 when I get in from work. I generally have dinner at 6.30, any earlier and I'll be really hungry at night. I have a good lunch of soup +toast and an apple, but I raid the fridge when I get in - lots of bits which probably up my calorie intake. I think some of it is habit, but I do feel hungry. I can't move my lunch later- usually at 1. Any tips?

robertsmithscorpsebride · 04/07/2020 08:57

Well.... that didn't go as I thought it would! First week weigh in for me and dh and he lost 6lbs Shock and I lost 8lbs Shock WTF

Technically it's our first weeks (I was starting again after my blip) so water weight and we did our initial weigh in on a sunday evening on fancy pants brand new scales so my starting weight was at least 3lbs heavier than I have weighed in for a while, but even so, 8 bloody pounds! Eek!!!!

Maybe having a fasting buddy is a good thing 😁 I'm not getting carried away, let's see what next week brings!!

Have a great weekend everyone

robertsmithscorpsebride · 04/07/2020 08:58

mad could you have 4 smaller meals a day and have something quick like eggs at 5.30pm?

MazDazzle · 04/07/2020 09:01

Sounds delicious BC. Glad to hear you had a lovely day. Happy belated birthday! CakeWine

I’m now officially on holiday. Hip, hip hooray! DH has been away for nearly two months now. Juggling 3 (very messy) DC with wfh has been tough at times and my house is an absolute tip. Think ‘Extreme Hoarders’ combined with ‘How Clean is Your House’. It’s so bad I daren’t let anyone over the front door. Today, the big clean begins!

And since I’ll be busy sorting and tidying I figured it’s the perfect day for a FD. Here’s hoping I can nail it first time!

MadauntofA · 04/07/2020 09:09

That's a fantastic start Robert! I think I need to put more planning into it rather than a mad raid of the fridge - just so easy to pick at bits, but then easily converted to the scales!!

MadauntofA · 04/07/2020 09:10

Good luck Max, sounds like a big job! Having a big clean here today as we are in desperate need too.

BigChocFrenzy · 04/07/2020 09:51

Brilliant SV and start, Robert for you and MrRobert

Some people do lose a lot of water weight initially - which is good, because e.g. having a lot of retained water usually raises BP

MadAUnt As pp advised, plan 4 meals, with the after-work meal being something easy to grab - so you don't go astray - but reasonably nourishing

e.g. have a pita ready to warm up and some protein to put in - boiled egg / smoked salmon & Philly / hummus & veg / .....

Good luck on your de-hoarding FD, Maz
I'm having my usual Saturday miniFD

I started today by cleaning out a giant set of spider webs that appeared during the last week over my mosquito shields outside the windows Confused
It was alarming how quickly they were expanding - several sq ft - so I had to dismantle the shields and scrub away before they eneveloped the whole flat Shock (preparing to eat me ?!)

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