Blood sugar diet and fast800 thread 19

[thenewaveragebear1983]

Here’s the new thread for the BSD followers, plus those following the Fast800 plan. Everyone is welcome to join us. Here’s a quick recap!

The BSD/fast 800 is a low carb, Mediterranean style way of eating, with the primary aim of stabilising your insulin response when you eat. You achieve this by: eating fewer carbs, cutting out sugar and sweet tasting foods including most fruit, and by following a low calorie plan that reduces your visceral fat meaning that everything functions more effectively. Less insulin means less fat storage (in a nutshell, although more info can be found on this online). The diet was designed to reduce T2 diabetes symptoms (or even reverse it entirely) but can also be used for weightloss.

Eat:
Meats and fish
Oils
Eggs
Full fat dairy products
Nuts, seeds
Pulses/ beans
Veg that grows above ground
Limit fruit: apples, pears, berries- in moderation, with meals, with fats

Occasional alcoholic drinks allowed (spirits, red wine are preferable to beer, lager, etc)
Tea and coffee, herbal tea etc.
And water- drink lots of water!

Avoid
sugar, sweets, and ‘naturally occurring sugars’ such as fructose, maltose, honey, agave, puréed dates etc....

Potatoes of any variety
Pasta
Rice
Breakfast cereals (occasional steel cut oats are ok)
Breads/ flour based products

Exercise:
Michael Moseley recommends HIIT workouts to increase calorie burn and help to tone up, and recommends walking more (increasing your steps weekly until you hit around 10000 a day)

Mindfulness
MM also suggests a programme of mindfulness, meditation, practised for a few minutes each day.

How to follow the plan:
Fast800: follow the plan above, sticking to 800 calories every day for 2 weeks. Ideal to give your weightloss a real kick start, plus improve your insulin function and reduce your sugar cravings.
8 weeks BSD- 8 weeks, follow the guidelines above- 800 calories a day. You don’t need to count carbs grams because the diet is naturally self limiting.
BSD 5:2- for a more leisurely weightloss journey, or as maintenance, or once you’ve done an 8 week stint or 2 weeks of Fast800, you can play around with a combination of increased calorie count, ‘free eating’ and fasting days (800 cals) until you achieve your goals. Many of our long standing members now follow this approach.

You can stop 800 calorie days at any time once you achieve your goal. It’s advised to limit yourself to 12 weeks maximum at 800 calorie days, but you should get excellent results in 8 weeks. Depending on your weightloss goals, you can do further ‘rounds’ of either the 8 week BSD or the Fast800.

Time restricted eating/TRE :
In addition to the fast800/ BSD plan you can incorporate a strategy of time restricted eating. Put simply, this means only eating between certain times each day to maximise your fasting time. TRE has shown to have positive results for weightloss, even if there is no calorie restriction, and increases insulin sensitivity/reduces insulin resistance. At first, try for a clear 12 hours without food each 24 hours, increasing to 16:8 as you get more adept at fasting.

Some useful links

Meal planning ideas thread
Blood sugar diet recipe thread and menu planner meal planning thread

<a class="break-all" href="http://go.mumsnet.com/?xs=1&id=470X1554755&url=healthyeater.com/important-tool-weight-loss" target="_blank">TDEE calculator to calculate your daily calorie requirement

information about the ‘whoosh’ phenomenon

@fufulina @Bestbees @Kimlek @thenewaveragebear1983 a big thank you to all of you for the sage advice and you're all absolutely correct, of course. I'm not even hungry in the morning especially to be honest. I just kind of miss, eating more if that makes sense? I know that sounds so basic, but what I mean is that while I'm rarely hungry as such on this, I do sometimes juuuust kinda miss food and sometimes feel a bit 'empty'. Yes, @thenewaveragebear1983 I agree, some of that has got to be emotionally motivated for sure.

I don't think it helps with the whole sense of monotony of life in general at the moment you know? I'm not used to wfh and I'm not enjoying it at all much. I feel guilty about my children experience of lockdown while I am working and I'm really desperate for this WOE to work for me too and it seems to be moving so slowly...

Fasted till 12 ish, had a few strawberries then lunch of romaine, cottage cheese, tomato, slice of ham and a cheddar slice.

Snaffled a few mixed nuts and a sliver of brie while cooking dinner (not quite the idea but I was a bit hungry by then), then dinner of baked salmon with pesto, peas, tomato, and a smidge of grated cheese. Slightly odd food day and I've probably gone a bit over my calories because by tea time I just couldn't be arsed to stick it in MFP. Reckon I didn't do too badly though and weirdly really enjoyed a glass of tonic water (no gin!) just for a change of flavours. Was an elderflower, slimline one so no carbs or cals!

I did not have breakfast.

@agteacht I will get those ingredients in for that porridge, thank you it sounds right up my street. I only have the almond milk bit in the house currently and shopping day was yesterday, gah! Thanks though, sounds nuttily delicious

@Justasecondnow thanks, I think I will need to do a bit of that maybe ease up a tad while sticking tight to the principles. I think if the pounds were falling off me I'd be over the moon with how I'm managing eating wise if that makes sense. With the scales not moving again this morning it seems to make it harder. I guess where I've never been able to keep my daily calorie intake this low for this long, I thought I would see faster results, even though in reality this is the first thing that's had any results for a long time. I really need to keep that in mind..

If you have a bit of carbs, is the withdrawal as bad as when you're first cutting them out do you guys find?

@Postmanbear I don’t think you ever go much over 800 cals, which is some tough going! You can definitely afford a cup of tea if it helps keep your sanity!
Errr, @cream123 you’ve kept the 1st stone off! And just lost 4lb this week!!! That’s great progress. I’m chuffed to bits that I’ve maintained so you definitely should be! Looks like we’ll both be 10.9 soon & with the same goal!
Kitchen closed (rather late) 830kcal & 34 carbs

@mumoflittlemice If you have a bit of carbs, is the withdrawal as bad as when you're first cutting them out do you guys find? I think it probably depends how many carbs and what types you eat prior. If it’s all cereal & toast for bfast; sarnies for lunch and pasta for dinner then the initial withdrawal is going to be tough and unlikely you’ll feel that bad again unless you go crazy. But I wonder if it’s a lot to do with sugar carbs more than the white stuff. I certainly don’t seem to have a problem with the odd sarnie (1 in 6 months) or a couple of potatoes from the roast. There’s still good carbs (veg etc) so I think it’ll depend what carbs you’re thinking of, how many, what type (processed, sugary, veg) and for how long. I expect. Why? What are you pondering?

Morning all.

@mumoflittlemice I definitely hear you on the emotional eating. Some days I'll feel it the whole day, constantly being drawn to eat rubbish then stopping myself, then being drawn again - and quite frankly it's exhausting and eventually I find myself saying I can't take the emotional rollercoaster of saying no all the time; I end up having something and hopping on the familiar old rollercoaster I know, which is the "I've ended up eating biscuits, i always do this" one. My food issues are deeply entrenched. I will say though, stripping away the safety net of carbs (especially at worrying stressful times like this) really makes me feel quite raw and exposed and provided I actually reflect on it and have the tools to work through it it can be a positive experience, even if I do 'crack'. The beauty of cutting out the carbs is that you really don't want them so often, but the hard bit for me is that unless I actually deal with the emotional need for them, I'm sort of left adrift without my safety net when the emotions rise to the surface.

I'm 2lbs down this week, not brilliant, but probably fair considering what I've eaten and the cake! I'd like to maintain that over the weekend so I can start Sunday morning bright eyed and bushy tailed. Next week will be my optimum weight loss week, ruled as I am by hormones, so I want everything in place to really capitalise on that.

Today: just having a coffee then I'm heading out for a longish run (12km hopefully). Tonight's dinner will be steak and salad, 2 glasses of wine are budgeted for ( although I actually said to dh I may not drink tonight so might not have them)! I will most likely go over 800 cals though especially if I do run long because I'll need some additional protein to see me through the afternoon - eggs for lunch, or maybe the sardines in roasted pepper from the book.

Have a great Friday folks

@Kimlek that makes sense and is where my thinking is going. I’m not pondering much, but for example I’d love a couple of multigrain crackers with any hummus I’m eating or the occasional slice of buttered, seeded bread toast if I have bacon and eggs. I’m ok without of course but I just wondered how bad the withdrawal would be if you had a small portion of decent quality (whole grain etc) carb once in a while. If it’s as bad as that at the start I’d really not risk it as I found that awful!! But I suppose I’m thinking that at some point I’ll want to add a little in here and there and I’m curious as to people experiences flipping in and out of strict BSD type WOE. In the BSD recipe book it says something along the lines of the above, but it didn’t mention what the after effects might be like...

@thenewaveragebear1983 thanks for that, yes it definitely feels like that ‘comfort’ element is removed which is odd because I’ve genuinely been loving what I’m eating on this. But there’s no doubt our brains are programmed to seek that dopamine hit that sugar/ carbs give, especially if we feel under threat. Personally our lockdown story has involved a lot of stress as I’ve no doubt it has for many or most people so for the first half of it I really was eating so much more crappy, carby, cakey food . Coming away from that horrible habit has felt like liberation and when I think back to it it was such a vicious circle where I wanted more and more (instead of now where I tend to not really be a slave to that same sort of ‘want’ at all).

Thanks for giving me your viewpoint on it and sharing your experience. It really does help, all of you do and being on this thread.

I am so in awe of your running!! I am horribly unfit these days and is something I really need to attend to...

ARG I posted last night but it didn't up load!

Lots of great discussion about emotional eating. I have really noticed how I really want to eat if I am angry!

Plan today is:
2 poached eggs and asparagus for lunch with a bit of butter
Dinner meatballs and courgetti

Going to have a bit of the sangria thing tonight, but will be sensible and treat that at my weekly treat. I don't have any other social things that mean I am tempted to eat more at the moment!!

I have been listening to lots of podcasts on fasting and they often recommend fat first so I guess breaking fast with cheese/olive/nut/avo. It was interesting and reminded me to keep fat up like butter or oil on veg (counted of course). Might be helpful for those struggling to focus on having maybe a piece of cheese or nuts rather than fruit or something for a snack.

Advice please: I appear to be putting on weight after an initial mega loss! See here:

Start weight 10.6 1/2
Day 2 10.3 1/2
Day 3 10.4 3/4
Day 4 10.5

Do I just Koko and hope that it's the randomness of water retention and their will be a whoosh? Should I start countin carbs already?

Arrrgh, scales have not budged 3rd in a row 10.13! So frustrating, not one ounce!!

What’s a whoosh? Am I going to get a whoosh? How do I get a whoosh? I neeeeeed a whoosh!!!

Ahem apologies, aaand breathe

@mumoflittlemice seems we are in the same predicament!

@mumoflittlemice I don’t think you’ll get the withdrawal symptoms unless you return to your old way of eating but it could slow down your weight loss. I think some people find that when they eat carbs they crave more. I think it upsets the insulin & increases insulin resistance etc. I don’t think you’ll suffer too much with a couple of crackers every now and then especially once you’re maintaining. In the fast800 recipe book I was surprised to see a few carbs in there. It seems more focused on 5:2 style than the original BSD 8 week recipe book or the paperback. bear is good with nutritional science and will probably know. Are you close to your goal weight?

@mumoflittlemice I never did any exercise at all and then in 2018 I decided to do one more round of bsd and give it a fighting chance by using our treadmill for 10 minutes a day and......here we are! Something just clicked for me somehow.
With regard to the emotional eating, I have had various hypnotherapy sessions over the years because of my very warped relationship with food (in fact, anything addictive; I used to be a very heavy smoker for example) and I have picked up lots of things along the way. For example, Shoving food in your mouth can be a metaphor for almost gagging yourself, in situations where you feel you cannot speak up. It's hard to speak when your mouth is stuffed with biscuits, after all. I've been brought up to not speak out and this has been reinforced all my life. Once I freed myself from that (with my notebook, I write down all the things I can't say) I felt much more able to cope with it without food. It does involve some, often painful, looking inside yourself though and you do need to do it from a place of 'self care' rather than 'self criticism'. A lot of people do notice when they remove their emotional crutch (sugar) they are left with quite raw emotions just kind of dangling there so if you feel that it's happening to you, I really do recommend doing the mindfulness Michael recommends or getting yourself a journal or diary to work through some of it.

@Bestbees your little blip could be just that, you may find it's just water retention after your initial whoosh. Drink plenty today!

I’ve never had a whoosh!! What calorie counter are you using as MFP and fat secret both tell you your carbs. If you’re keeping to 800 cals your carbs should be low. My weight loss was horrificly slow. I really examined the macros and although I was sticking to under 900 cals my protein & fats were low & most of calories coming from carbs. I don’t plan macros but I do keep an eye. It’s helpful to put food into a counter in the am before you eat it so you can add more protein, fats etc. I aim for less than 40g carbs and around 70g protein. If I have a pear with cottage cheese and later an apple with peanut butter the two fruits are carby. Healthy but carby and definitely better than peanut butter in toast but good to be aware.
I’m static at 10.9.4 today

@thenewaveragebear1983 how do I save recipes in fat secret please? And find them again. I entered foods under dinner yesterday and clicked ‘save meal’ entered it as Mediterranean fish bake but now can’t find it. Also can you add your own recipes to the recipe section? Huge thanks!!

@thenewaveragebear1983 ignore me!! I’ve found it. Sorry everyone. Please carry on. 🤗

0.5 off
So tmrw should be back to where I left off I hope!
Today
Almond porridge with few rasberries
2 eggs and spinach
Home Made chicken curry with cauliflower rice

Should be 860 and 16 carbs ( don’t usually get this low)

I am just counting calories with the help of the internet and a pen. I am not counting carbs at all as trying to ease myself in. Might not be working though!
I am not counting green veg and am having big bowls of spinach and cabbage etc. But I think these are good for us so if it makes it sustainable then I prefer that route. However if after a week my weight isn't going down I will switch it up.

So yesterday was lunch of big plate of lettuce and spinach uncounted but topped with omlette, avo and dressing all counted followed by a counted pear
Dinner was half a gammon steak (inno processed but using what we have in freezer) and white bean mash counted plus uncounted cabbage drizzled with counted oil. Followed by Yog and berries.
I had a piece of cheese in the evening.

Is this too carby?

@kimlek I have to say I've never managed to do that, I've entered recipes before but never managed to retrieve them!

Yay 2lb off. But I’m a terribly impatient person as even though it’s dreaded week 3 and I went over 800 cals a few times (stuck to low carb and had none of the big 5 - ok one bite of cake and one dough ball!) I still wanted to lose more! I think because this is the strictest diet I’ve ever stuck too. But have to remind myself not to be a dope - I’m getting good results.

Start 11’1
Week 1: 10’9 (6lb off)
Week 2 :10’7 (2lb off) - but was shorter week to lose as changed weigh in day.
Week 3: 10’5 (2lb off)

I’ve recorded it like this as I like it when other people do it too!

Going to have a relaxed day today - making crispy cakes with kids and will have one. And takeaway later but will avoid rice/naan etc. Then will mostly carry on as is. Except a bit more exercise this week & will meal plan 2 days before weigh in to be bang on 800 and low carb. Trying to dodge that plateau agteach !

For those not losing/losing slowly are you weighing every day. Is it still working weekly maybe? Isn’t there a good app for smoothing out blips? Someone will know! Can you check your measurements? Try on some clothes to see? Hoping for wooshes as you all deserve them. Keeping on with this without the encouragement of lbs down must be so hard. But it will work! I’m certain.

All out the window today .
Will have to behave tmrw. Lockdown boredom ugh!

Week 3 is tough @Justasecondnow! Now I'm past it I can see how non linear the loss is... hopefully my screenshot of my loss attached helps, left hand column is weight, right hand column is pounds lost.

So you can see in the later weeks some weeks it averages two pounds a week over two weeks

I’ve had a much better day today. Went for a picnic where everyone was eating sandwiches and I honestly didn’t want one.
I’ve upped the amount of veg I’ve eaten and had lamb Ragu with courgetti for dinner. I’m on 814 and 25g of carbs but if I want a snack later I’m going to have one.

Well done @Justasecondnow I would be chuffed with a 2lb loss!

bear so to retrieve the recipe, go to the usual entry page and at the top it says ‘search’, ‘recently eaten’, ‘most eaten’ and then ‘saved meals’ - I had to scroll across but they’re all there! You then click ‘eat’ and it adds each ingredient to lunch/dinner etc. You can then change ingredient if you did a slightly different recipe which is fab as that was an issue with me for MFP. Must say I LOVE fat secret!! Tons of info.
I’m well over today. 1100kcals!! A bit annoyed as wasn’t going to drink but sunny evening called for a fire pit & vino and then DH got the lemoncello out! 🙄🙄🙄 Had a lovely chicken tagine from the recipe book.
DH working from home is a bit of an issue as I’d normally eat with my 3 girls around 6/7pm and close the kitchen shortly after. he’d eat later when he came in from work (9/10pm) or he’d be out. Now we are waiting for him (or at least I am) to finish calls and ‘relax’ before eating dinner around 9pm. Im peckish around 6pm but I end up joining him in the garden, whilst he’s finishing off calls, having a glass of wine etc. It’s become a real habit. I’ve tried taking water out but it’s unfair if he’s having a glass I want one too. The alcohol really messes up my macros though!!! Grrrr!

The app that ‘smooths out’ weight is Happy Scale - I really like it.