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Fasting / 5:2 diet

Talk about intermittent fasting and 5:2, including what’s worked for others. Mumsnet hasn't checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. You may wish to speak to a medical professional before starting any diet.

Blood sugar diet and fast800 thread 19

999 replies

thenewaveragebear1983 · 10/05/2020 22:25

Here’s the new thread for the BSD followers, plus those following the Fast800 plan. Everyone is welcome to join us. Here’s a quick recap!

The BSD/fast 800 is a low carb, Mediterranean style way of eating, with the primary aim of stabilising your insulin response when you eat. You achieve this by: eating fewer carbs, cutting out sugar and sweet tasting foods including most fruit, and by following a low calorie plan that reduces your visceral fat meaning that everything functions more effectively. Less insulin means less fat storage (in a nutshell, although more info can be found on this online). The diet was designed to reduce T2 diabetes symptoms (or even reverse it entirely) but can also be used for weightloss.

Eat:
Meats and fish
Oils
Eggs
Full fat dairy products
Nuts, seeds
Pulses/ beans
Veg that grows above ground
Limit fruit: apples, pears, berries- in moderation, with meals, with fats

Occasional alcoholic drinks allowed (spirits, red wine are preferable to beer, lager, etc)
Tea and coffee, herbal tea etc.
And water- drink lots of water!

Avoid
sugar, sweets, and ‘naturally occurring sugars’ such as fructose, maltose, honey, agave, puréed dates etc....

Potatoes of any variety
Pasta
Rice
Breakfast cereals (occasional steel cut oats are ok)
Breads/ flour based products

Exercise:
Michael Moseley recommends HIIT workouts to increase calorie burn and help to tone up, and recommends walking more (increasing your steps weekly until you hit around 10000 a day)

Mindfulness
MM also suggests a programme of mindfulness, meditation, practised for a few minutes each day.

How to follow the plan:
Fast800: follow the plan above, sticking to 800 calories every day for 2 weeks. Ideal to give your weightloss a real kick start, plus improve your insulin function and reduce your sugar cravings.
8 weeks BSD- 8 weeks, follow the guidelines above- 800 calories a day. You don’t need to count carbs grams because the diet is naturally self limiting.
BSD 5:2- for a more leisurely weightloss journey, or as maintenance, or once you’ve done an 8 week stint or 2 weeks of Fast800, you can play around with a combination of increased calorie count, ‘free eating’ and fasting days (800 cals) until you achieve your goals. Many of our long standing members now follow this approach.

You can stop 800 calorie days at any time once you achieve your goal. It’s advised to limit yourself to 12 weeks maximum at 800 calorie days, but you should get excellent results in 8 weeks. Depending on your weightloss goals, you can do further ‘rounds’ of either the 8 week BSD or the Fast800.

Time restricted eating/TRE :
In addition to the fast800/ BSD plan you can incorporate a strategy of time restricted eating. Put simply, this means only eating between certain times each day to maximise your fasting time. TRE has shown to have positive results for weightloss, even if there is no calorie restriction, and increases insulin sensitivity/reduces insulin resistance. At first, try for a clear 12 hours without food each 24 hours, increasing to 16:8 as you get more adept at fasting.

Some useful links

Meal planning ideas thread
Blood sugar diet recipe thread and menu planner meal planning thread

<a class="break-all" href="http://go.mumsnet.com/?xs=1&id=470X1554755&url=healthyeater.com/important-tool-weight-loss" target="_blank">TDEE calculator to calculate your daily calorie requirement

information about the ‘whoosh’ phenomenon

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Thread gallery
35
thenewaveragebear1983 · 28/05/2020 19:12

@RedLipsAndRosyCheeks I know it just feels crappy doesn't it? I'm really not "on it" at all at the moment and I feel like there's always a reason. Excuse. Just had quite a heart to heart with dh to say I cannot eat and drink like this Indefinitely, I just can't. I need him to be helping me by not being so quick to buy treats and alcohol. I basically pointed out that I've gained 7lbs eating the same food and he's actually lost weight because he's not eating from petrol stations any more.
Although, even saying it to him I know it's slightly disingenuous. I eat a lot more than dh, he doesn't eat sweet food and he doesn't graze whereas I do. I've been really good on sugar recently, had none for about a week until today, but I have some days where I graze constantly. That's got to stop.

Anyway. Enough dwelling. I'll hopefully come on tomorrow and feel a lot less hormonal and grumpy!

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Lostmyunicorn · 28/05/2020 19:49

I’m eating late tonight but have worked out cals (assuming I don’t eat anything extra) as 600 although I may add some yoghurt and berries. Need to get out for a run tomorrow morning early as today has been rubbish in terms of steps / activity (I mean I’ve done loads of stuff but not of the variety that gets me a good exercise count!)

Kimlek · 28/05/2020 22:52

Oh me and you both bear. I had great plans to get back on it today. Started well but the damn pizza oven is a curse!!

Whattheladybirdsaidnext · 28/05/2020 22:52

Helloooo... I broke the diet enough that I’m quite drunk. To that point when I’m making serious decisions.

I was paying attention with the 2 weeks on and 2 weeks off thing. I dont really want to do that, but I have proved to myself that 8 weeks... or 12 weeks JUST ISNT HAPPENING!!!! I have been screwing this up for the last 9 days, or from 5.5 weeks. And as today shows, I can’t be trusted to be left to my own devices, because that’s how all the toast gets eaten. And the wine.

So. I reckon, 3 weeks on, 1 week off... whatdoyathink?! I will have to work quite hard on that 1 week off to do something vaguely sensible. But also I suspect that does mean I’m less limited by the max number of weeks thing. Unless anyone knows something specific? I do need to keep going because for all the weight I lost (12 kg... I can wave that goodbye.... maybe 9 now?) I have another 24 to loose maybe. So I have to be in this for the long haul and so I need to be more realistic as I apparently can’t just stick to it.

Anyway... regarding right now. I do plan to clamber ungainly back on the wagon tomorrow. I am going to make a drunken promise now... I will report back on my calories and carbs for the next week, along with whether I managed to go for a walk or do any other exercise. In the name of accountability.

I will hold off weighing myself till next Friday- which is technically week 7. I don’t really want to know how much I screwed up anyway! And I will officially report back (because... just because.)

And we will see what happens. I am hoping having a set limit means that I can stick to it. And I will have to learn how to manage myself so as to not destroy all the hard work.

Any thoughts to this ramble would be appreciated....

Hic....Wine

Kimlek · 28/05/2020 22:57

Oh bird I read that in a ‘pissed’ voice. And I’m sorry but it did make me smile. Seriously. Of course 3 weeks on 1 off is fine. We each have to find what works for us don’t we. And everything is worth a try. Let’s brush ourselves down and start tomorrow!!

Whattheladybirdsaidnext · 28/05/2020 23:11

That’s ok, it was written in a pissed voice.

I have poured the rest of the wine down the sink though....

RedLipsAndRosyCheeks · 29/05/2020 06:18

I think 3 weeks on and 1 off sounds good @Whattheladybirdsaidnext . Anything that helps you stay on plan. Just be careful you don't completely loose the plot on the week off. Which I'm fully aware is easier said than done.

thenewaveragebear1983 · 29/05/2020 07:18

Well I had a crappy day yesterday, I didn't even attempt bsd I just ate sugary rubbish and bread . Blame hormones! (And I'm just so fed up of lockdown now. Is anyone else finding the constant changes and daily updates just very unsettling? )

Anyway, it's me, so obviously today is back on plan! Going for a run this morning (aiming for a 10km or longer if I can muster the energy) I have a chicken breast wrapped in ham for lunch left from yesterday's dinner, but I actually aim to fast all through if I can. There will be drinks tonight; dh is on holiday, it's Friday, it's gloriously sunny- I would be a fool to think that there wouldn't. So I don't think this weekend I will be counting calories, but I will be eating only bsd foods and generally just not being a glutton. That's the best I can aim for right now.

I will then resume my plan on Monday! (It is ds's birthday on Wednesday though, which will be another bump in the road....but will cross that bridge when I come to it)

You lot that are doing well during this carnage, I honestly salute you! You're amazing and inspirational StarStarHalo

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fufulina · 29/05/2020 08:02

Hello 👋 Delurking again as I near the end of week 4. You lot are part of my new ‘Fast800 religious practice’ (I’m an atheist). Every morning I write my weight, BMI and how I’m feeling on a single index card. It’s mindfulness, I suppose. Then I have a read of the book, this thread, take my blood sugar with the fancy monitor I bought (best lockdown purchase). Plan my food. Drink my black coffee and fybogel (ahem), and get my head straight for the day.

I’ve also read the Jason Fung Fasting book and am totally sold on fasting and it gives me a glimmer of hope that that may be my key to maintenance, which is always where I fall down. I’ve done various low carb for years, and I like getting under the skin of the science. Although seemingly knowing the science hasn’t stopped me regaining all the weight I originally lost post DD2 8 years ago!

So this is Week 4, Day 5 and I am 6.7kg down. Another 15kg to go - to be bang in the middle of a healthy weight.

I’ve flirted with one meal a day, and a couple of 24 hr fasts. I’m signing up for another two weeks of 800 calls and will see where I get to. I cannot look 12 weeks in the eye. So agreeing with myself I will do two weeks and review seems to be working right now.

I love reading this thread. Thank you.

thenewaveragebear1983 · 29/05/2020 08:46

@Whattheladybirdsaidnext I suppose the only issue with that is, like with 5:2, you would still have to be mindful of what you eat on the week off or you could end up regaining all/most of what you lose in the weeks on. Because of the way bsd flushes water out, as soon as you reintroduce carbs you can find you gain several pounds of water weight so that could skew your results after your week off as well.

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thenewaveragebear1983 · 29/05/2020 08:47

But certainly, having occasional 'no count' days can help; so eg, stick to 800 during the week but maybe not count cals at weekends but stick to the right foods. Or have as you suggested 3 weeks on 800 and then do a no count week?

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Kimlek · 29/05/2020 09:44

Where are you ladies buying ‘lo dough’ from please? Given we’ve got a pizza oven I really need to source either a low carb pizza dough recipe (which is proving tricky) or try the lo dough bases. Thank you!

Postmanbear · 29/05/2020 09:48

@fufulina that’s a great loss, well done!

thenewaveragebear1983 · 29/05/2020 10:20

@Kimlek I got them on amazon. They were very expensive though and to be honest not especially nice other than that they formed a carb free vehicle upon which to put pizza toppings. They have no taste or texture of their own really.
Other pizza options are a 'meatza' either with a minced chicken base and topping, or just pizza topped steak/turkey/chicken/portabelli mushroom, or look up the 'fathead' pizza, made with cauliflower and mozzarella cheese base. I have a recipe in a book for that if you want one.

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thenewaveragebear1983 · 29/05/2020 10:22

www.carbmanager.com/recipe/low-carb-fathead-dough

Sorry, got confused. Fat head has no cauliflower!

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thenewaveragebear1983 · 29/05/2020 10:25

detoxinista.com/the-secret-to-perfect-cauliflower-pizza-crust/

Cauliflower crust. I have seen it with mozzarella as well. The trick is to squeeze all the water out. Wrap it in a clean tea towel and properly wring all the water out really well.

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NathanNathan · 29/05/2020 10:29

I have a question bear about the carb water weight thing, so is it inevitable that when you go to whatever form of maintainable you decide on some after weight will be regained?

Postmanbear · 29/05/2020 11:52

I’ve done the cauliflower pizza before and it is a lot of effort for a not great result tbh. Could you use a small whole meal wrap? Not sure on carbs though

Postmanbear · 29/05/2020 11:54

I have that question about water weight tool surely after a certain amount of time your body will have rehydrated. I always thought that’s why your weight loss slowed down but I have no evidence to support that!

thenewaveragebear1983 · 29/05/2020 12:58

It's to do with glycogen depletion in muscles as opposed to dehydration. Every molecule of stored muscle glycogen holds 2-3 molecules of water, so when you are glycogen depleted you will also shed that water. When you eat carbs again you will replenish glycogen stores and the water it holds. You can store a surprising amount as well, especially if you are muscular. It's not the same as dehydration, which yes you will eventually become rehydrated.

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NathanNathan · 29/05/2020 13:06

So are we destined to gain some weight on maintenance? It seems yes? I guess that creates the general 2 or 3 lbs weight fluctuation of life?

ilovemydogandmrobama2 · 29/05/2020 13:24

Think I've hit a plateau - week 2 and stuck on 10 st 4 lbs.

Have today off and will go for a walk with the DCs, enjoy the lovely weather and not try to stress too much..

Hope everyone else is having a good day.

@fufulina - I need to do one day at a time. Every. Single. Day. Although I do have 2 major milestones that I am aiming to achieve: 10 st 1lb which will take me into not overweight, so just another 3 pounds to go.

Then there's 9st 5lbs, and then 9 st - 8st 5lbs. Much also depends on regaining fitness which went out the window last summer after spinal surgery and drinking too much wine

thenewaveragebear1983 · 29/05/2020 13:57

@NathanNathan I think 'maintenance' isn't ever expected to be a static number though is it? Even slimming world allow you 3lbs above and below your target weight to be 'at target'. So yes, you'd get to your target weight but you shouldn't expect up stay exactly that weight for ever. I reached 10.3 and then just could not lose any more. My body just refused. I stayed on plan for 6 months and did not lose a single gram more, although dropped another dress size. I have obviously regained a few more pounds since then, but even when I was "10.3" my weight would bounce around to 10.5 / 10.6, especially after weekends and then during the week would drop back down. I suppose the only way to counter that would be to go below what your target is, eg 3lbs under, and then allow yourself up bob about up to that target weight. I think I'd go insane trying to maintain to within 1lb. I can barely manage half a stone Grin

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NathanNathan · 29/05/2020 14:27

That makes sense @thenewaveragebear1983! I guess I was worried that eating any small amount of carbs would cause a bigger issue than that fluctuation. Thank you Smile

thenewaveragebear1983 · 29/05/2020 17:30

@NathanNathan my only advice is , as a serial maintainer: get a number in your head that's your absolute max. I suppose a good rule of thumb is 'target +one good strict week' so fir me, 10.7 was my max I would fluctuate to. I will be very honest and say that if you freely introduce carbs, over time you will regain your lost weight.

The more shrewd among us will note that I am currently 10.8/9 so clearly am no longer successfully maintaining but am now actively dieting to get back to 10.3. Bloody lockdown heatwave hormones Grin

I have been quite good today though. Had my chicken breast with nothing for lunch, and this afternoon have had a small piece of cheese to take the edge off. Currently rereading the fast800 book and I think I might try the recipes and menu plan this week as I actually never have done this I've always cooked my own.

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