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Fasting / 5:2 diet

Talk about intermittent fasting and 5:2, including what’s worked for others. Mumsnet hasn't checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. You may wish to speak to a medical professional before starting any diet.

5:2 Thread number 90: In these tough times, our friendly support group supports you in your weight & healthy goals

972 replies

BigChocFrenzy · 15/04/2020 22:43

Welcome to the continuing thread for those following 5:2 or other forms of IF (Intermittent Fasting) such as 4:3, ADF, or daily 16:8 Smile

The 5:2 diet was introduced by Michael Mosely on BBC Horizon on August 2012:

Basically it is 2 very low cal days ("fasts") per week - which need not be consecutive - and eat "normally" to maintain on the other 5 days.

For those who have dieted or maybe overeaten for years, eating "normally"
means roughly the number of calories your body needs to maintain - NOT reduce - its weight (see TDEE calculator below).

IMPORTANT
If you have had past diagnosed Eating Disorders or serious MH problems you should NOT do 5:2 or any other kind of fasting

ACRONYMS

16:8 is a different type of fasting, which can be combined with 5:2.
Daily zero-cal fast for 16 hours and eat within an 8 hour window. To lose weight, this needs a weekly calorie deficit as well

4:3 = fast on 3 non-consecutive days per week

ADF (Alternate-Day Fasting) = fast every other day

b2b (optional) back-to-back / consecutive fast days, each with an increased allowance of 650 calories instead of 500

BMI (Body Mass Index) healthy range is 18.5 - 24.9 for Caucasians. Upper limit may be 22 for some of Asian origin.

FD = single Fast Day: aim for 500 calories (600 for men or 25% TDEE whichever is higher) or 1000 cals for BF
No alcohol or junk on FDs
Even if you exercise strenuously, do NOT increase FD cals to allow for exercise

MFP = My Fitness Pal, a useful App or website to track food & drink calories

miniFD = MiniFD, 850- 1000 calories, no alcohol or junk

NFD = Non-Fast Day, averages around TDEE

NSV / LSV = Non Scale Victory / LifeStyle (change) Victory, e.g. compliment, smaller waist, clothes size

SV = Scale Victory

TDEE = Total Daily Energy Expenditure, the average number of calories you burn in a day, is calculated (see calculators below) from your current weight, height, age, activity level.
Aim to average about this for NFDs.

WOE / WOL = Way Of Eating / Way Of Life. We say this instead of "diet", to emphasise that we must make a permanent change in how we eat, to mainitain our new healthy weight longterm.

HOW TO START

. Take initial measurements: weight, waist, hips
. Use TDEE calculator below if you need a rough guide to how much to eat on NFDs
. Choose any 2 days for FDs, non-consecutive is easier.
. Before each FD: plan, shop & calorie count ALL food & drink for the day

Useful Resources & Calculators

Calorie Counter: mfp
Rough Calories for NFD: Mosely TDEE Calc (exercisers: set activity level to one below what you think)
BMI: Calc
Ideal Weight & Body Frame Size: Calc Wt Frame
Body Fat: BFat Calc
Choose / Visualise Goal Weight:
3D BMI body types ripped to normal
Bod Vis Measurements & 3D rotate]]

Safe Alcohol Calc: Calc Units Cals

FD Recipes:
Mosely LowCarb , low carb Diet Doc
BBC Good Food 52 , BBC Good Food 500 cal meals ,
Good2Know , Foodie Under 200 Cals
Vegetarian ,

FD Ready Meals, Fast Food

Any Day:
Meal Planner

FAQs / Tips

  • WATER: Start each day with a glass of water; and drink plenty during the day.
  • HOT DRINKS: No limits on tea or coffee, but on FDs count any milk / sugar calories.
  • SLEEP: Try to get enough sleep, or it may slow weight loss.
  • EXERCISE: is healthy & can help weight loss - BUT only if you do NOT eat back less than you burn. Fasted training can burn more fat.
HIIT and resistance training both work well with 5:2/IF.
  • FDs: If possible, choose days when you are busy, but not preparing meals for others.
Concentrate on protein & veg; avoid sugar or fruit juice. e.g. Stir-fries, soups & stews. Ready meals are OK.
  • BFers: start with 1000-cal FDs, optionally reduce to 700 cals gradually.
You can return to 1000 if growth spurts or sleep-deprivation require more fuel.
  • NFDs: No rules, but to improve health, try to cut down on added sugar & junk food, keep alcohol within safe limits. A few treats per week are fine.
  • Do NOT fast: if you've ever had EDs, or if pregnant, under 21, over-stressed, fever, stomach bug, even a bad cold.
  • CHECK with your Doctor: if you have diabetes, any other endocrine condition, any serious past or present medical condition, or if taking ANY prescribed medication (fasting may affect absorption rate)

Scientific Evidence for Fasting & Health

BBC article on the original Horizon program

Telegraph comments on 5:2 and gives a brief overview by Dr Mosley, useful for newbies.

This InterviewPart1 and InterviewPart2 with leading ADF researcher Dr Varady explains why fasting helps you to lose weight AND improves some health markers.

Fasting boosts "autophagy" = recycling of old cells
Yoshinori Ohsumi won the 2016 Nobel prize for Medicine for research into autophagy
NOBEL Lecture “Autophagy – An Intracellular Recycling System”

Prof. R Taylor (Newcastle Uni) won the 2013 Diabetes UK Banting Prize for his Twin Cycle Hypothesis re the cause of type 2 diabetes: Twin Cycle Hypothesis T2
and showed a fasting diet could reverse T2

Dr Michelle Harvie (funded by cancer charities) showed possible benefits of intermittent fasting compared to standard daily calorie reduction in her trials (consecutive FDs) with women at high risk of breast cancer: ComparingDiets , EarlierResearch52

Dr Johnson showed intermittent fasting helped Asthma

HORMESIS & Why Intermittent Fasting Works: Mattson , BlackSwan and Hormesis

Molecular Mechanisms and Clinical Applications: J CellMetabolism
Recent research into the health benefits of fasting: e.g. by world-respected neuroscientist Dr MarkMattson (Mosely referred to his research) showed:

. Improved glucose regulation
. Loss of abdominal fat with maintenance of muscle mass
. Reduced blood pressure and heart rate
. Improved learning and memory and motor function
. Protection of neurons in the brain against dysfunction and degeneration in animal models of Alzheimer’s disease, Parkinson’s disease, stroke and Huntington’s disease.

Brain metabolism in health, aging, andneurodegeneration :
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

He compared 5:2 to ordinary daily diets on overweight women with family history of breast cancer.
Fasting group lost more belly fat, retained more muscle & had slightly better blood sugar regulation.

More of his research is in HealthyAging , Health , AvoidParkinsonsDisease

His article in J Aging Mech Disease 2015 explains the health benefits of intermittent fasting in great scientific detail.

Why intermittent fasting and stopping snacking can lower your risk of serious diseases:
Meal frequency and timing in health and disease

Fasting can help maintain brain health during aging:
emboj.embopress.org/content/36/11/1474
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

This interview with leading researchers into fasting in combination with standard cancer treatment: ScientificDiscussion MoselyMattsonLongo and a LongoInterview

NY Times Fasting Overview

Research by other US and European scientists in this DailyTelegraph Article about the medicinal uses of fasting, for many serious conditions & diseases.

Recent trials with Type 2 diabetics and those at risk of having it used a form of daily fasting - skipping supper.
Their conclusions: eating 1-2 meals per day is better than several small meals for losing weight and controlling insulin levels, see Type2Paper

OP posts:
Thread gallery
10
SausageCrush · 18/05/2020 12:04

Thanks for the advise BigChocFrenzy.
I'm feeling very positive again after several rather half hearted attempts to get my eating back on track Blush

harriethoyle · 18/05/2020 12:15

Hi Monday fasters, I'm tardily joining your slender crew Grin Doing a back to back so aiming for 650 per day. Good luck all!

emcla · 18/05/2020 13:13

Hi Harriet. Good luck today.

Just had a veg soup and a vit c drink.
Omelette and salad for dinner. Contemplating a b2b.

Waspie · 18/05/2020 13:26

Well done on your SV moan Smile

Good luck Harriet! I couldn't do a B2B; those who do have my utmost respect Smile

Hi Sausage - good luck!

I've had my chicken noodle cup-a-soup and multi vitamin tablet lunch with a half litre of water as dessert Grin Thai fishcake and salad planned for dinner.

homeschoolhell · 18/05/2020 14:04

afternoon everyone, good luck to all the monday fasters, there's a bunch of you Grin

well done on your SVs wine and moan fantastic results!

Happy birthday for yesterday moon and what a lovely surprise to have cake on your door step Cake

NFD today, I normally skip breakfast but had 1 piece of crumpet bread this morning with coffee as I needed to take painkillers (as TOTM came early - rude!) had leftover cauliflower cheese and some turkey slices with a small slice of focaccia for lunch followed by a small handful of berries and yogurt. Dinner is a fishcake with a mound of salad and maybe the last slice of my birthday cake (but I fear this might be too much for today) I am not calorie counting on NFDs, just not snacking at all. FD planned for tomorrow and friday this week

Upsidedownrightnow · 18/05/2020 14:09

@Winecheesesleep well done you must be so happy Smile

I am terrible on non fast days I ate so much yesterday Sad I really feel like I'm Letting myself down as I managed 3 fast days last week as I was busy painting so it was easy.

I will maybe aim for 3 fd again this week.

I'm fasting today and just about to go for a bike ride.

I'm nearly a stone heavier than I want to be an than I was last summer and I've just put shorts on which are much tighter!

Im not prepared to buy new clothes as I like the ones I have so I need to actually loose weight.

Iamblossom · 18/05/2020 15:12

Afternoon all.

Haven't been here for a while, oh no sirree, I got it all sussed, don't even need to fast anymore, I know what I need to eat and what I don't to stay at the weight I achieved with 5:2, job's a goodun. Confused

Except then lockdown happened. Sad

Despite running 30km a week I have gained about 5 pounds and need it gone.

Wine every night, more crisps than I would normally eat, loads more bread than I would normally eat (damn you DH with your homemade loaves), and snacking. Lots and lots of snacking.

Today is the first FD in ages. 0% Greek yoghurt so far and a 10km fasted run.

Planning eggs tuna and salad later.

It will also be my first booze free night in months.

MazDazzle · 18/05/2020 15:14

Checking in for a FD. First one in aaaages. I am the size of a house. Been skiving for far too long. It’s time to knuckle down!

Off to scroll back through the thread for some much needed inspiration. Smile

BigChocFrenzy · 18/05/2020 17:25

Congratulations on your SV, wine
Good start and the start of good habits too Smile

Well done on your SV too, moan
Good steady progress
Your knees NSV is very encouraging; fasting can help reduce inflammation - several MNers have reported improvements in joints, even before the reduced weight would be likely to have any effect.

No snacking is an excellent NSV, homeschool
Most folk who manage that don't have to calorie count NFDs

Well done, spatchcock
700 cals is fine

Good luck, MrD, drifter, Harriet, emcla and all the other Monday fasters

Welcome back, blossom and good luck
You know the good NFD habits you need to return to
especially avoiding late night booze and bread !

Welcome back too, Maz
All the old gang back Grin and all know their weaknesses to tackle

I had a heavy weights session at the gym, so glad it's open again (Germany, don't get excited !)
and a lovely sunny walk there & back, along the Rhine and fields

Outdoor restaurants open again tomorrow too,
so I'll see if they are serving actual meals - their salads are much better than mine - or just cake & ice cream, which I won't have

OP posts:
BigChocFrenzy · 18/05/2020 17:30

Upside Tackle one NFD problem at a time

A common problem that needs to be zapped is snacking - no snacking between meals EVER
It just keeps insulin raised and leads to a spiral of more eating and more hunger

If you are eating proper meals, then you know you can safely wait until the next meal.
I suggest 4 meals per day, 4 hours apart, e.g. 8 am, 12pm, 4pm, 8pm (preferably a small meal)
and keep drinking lots of water, still or sparkling, not junky fizz

OP posts:
OohMrDarcy · 18/05/2020 18:19

Evening all

Kitchen closed on 509 and 2 litres of water down. Going to have a mint tea later and then pamper / early night I think.

Welcome back blossom and maz, you'll be in the swing again in no time!

devildeepbluesea · 18/05/2020 18:38

Evening everyone.

My FD was a bit up and down, I was doing ok until I had to endure the most interminable Zoom meeting in the history of mankind, it very nearly sent me screaming for the wine and crisps.
Finally logged off at 3.50 and went for a huge long, exploratory walk.
I will confess to going 1 punnet of raspberries over my 500 but after a dog walk, combat and then 2 hours very brisk walking I'm going to make peace with that. Just tucking into lentil soup then bed.

Hope everyone has a good evening.

emcla · 18/05/2020 18:39

Fd completed. Off for a walk then a big treat of a cup of tea and a pint of water.

Winecheesesleep · 18/05/2020 19:50

Thanks for the congrats all and I hope you've all had a good FD if it is today. This is a friendly group Smile

I had eggs, asparagus and ham for lunch and just finished some homemade veg soup for dinner. I had 80 calories to spare so grated some Parmesan in and it was lovely.

BigChocFrenzy · 18/05/2020 20:11

Well done, MrD, devil, emcla, wine

Now, drink some water and clean your teeth to avoid temptation.
I suggest relaxing and planning an early night

OP posts:
ginsparkles · 18/05/2020 21:32

Evening all! Congratulations to those with SV's and well done to all today's fasters!

Finished up on 499 today. Was feeling glum today but am glad I stuck at it.

I'm another one that needs to heed the no snacking mantra. I rarely do it when I'm at work but being at home is so hard.

Teeth cleaned and off to bed. "See" you all tomorrow

OohMrDarcy · 19/05/2020 08:31

Morning all

Well done to all yesterdays fasters!

NFD today here and just planning meals for the week as kids due back shortly. Next FD is Thursday here.

Lunch today I'm going to have some more stir fry I think - loved that yesterday!

moonlight1705 · 19/05/2020 08:44

Morning, on a full FD today and have got soup then fishcakes for dinner. Really trying to not think about food until lunchtime.

harriethoyle · 19/05/2020 09:02

@moonlight1705 we're FD twins! That's what's on my menu today. Going to have a piece of toast this morning seeing I'm b2b so have extra calories. I'm already STARVING Confused

emcla · 19/05/2020 09:07

Well done gin

Good luck moonlight and Harriet. I’m fasting too. Harriet try a mini if you are struggling. Or drink lots of water or sparkling water and have a coffee. It works for me. I have homemade carrot and lentil soup for lunch and chicken fillet salad and a whole meal pitta for dinner.

Waspie · 19/05/2020 09:31

Welcome back Maz and blossom

Yay to the gyms and open air restaurants opening for you BCF. Hope you enjoy your weights sessions.

Fasted yesterday finishing on 460. Another planned for Thursday. Weather is forecast to be hot today and even hotter tomorrow Grin

Good luck to emcla, harriet, moonlight and everyone else
fasting today Flowers

Iamblossom · 19/05/2020 09:44

Morning. 2 pounds off from very successful first FD for a long time. Feel in the zone.

Going for a mini today.

0% yog with blueberries for breakfast.

Planning prawn omelette with salad for tea.

Will have a protein based lunch.

The trick will be to lay off the wine particularly as there is a bottle of white and a bottle of red open. Confused

Iamblossom · 19/05/2020 09:45

Thankyou for all the "welcome back" s. 😊

homeschoolhell · 19/05/2020 09:59

welcome back iam and maz lockdown seems to be having that effect on so many people.... I am definitely wanting to drink more since lockdown Shock

Well done to all the successful fasters yesterday

oh bigchoc enjoy being able to go to the restaurants Envy

well done on your SV iam Grin

FD today although still bleeding quite heavily with TOTM (urgh!) so will see how I get on, planning to have chicken and scrambled eggs for lunch, will see how I feel for dinner, maybe a salad or some soup.

emcla · 19/05/2020 10:24

Well done waspie on a successful fd.

Congratulations lamb. That’s a great start.

Good luck homeschool.