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Fasting / 5:2 diet

Talk about intermittent fasting and 5:2, including what’s worked for others. Mumsnet hasn't checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. You may wish to speak to a medical professional before starting any diet.

Blood sugar diet and fast800 support thread #18

998 replies

thenewaveragebear1983 · 10/03/2020 17:03

Here’s the new thread for the BSD followers, plus those following the Fast800 plan. Everyone is welcome to join us. Here’s a quick recap!

The BSD/fast 800 is a low carb, Mediterranean style way of eating, with the primary aim of stabilising your insulin response when you eat. You achieve this by: eating fewer carbs, cutting out sugar and sweet tasting foods including most fruit, and by following a low calorie plan that reduces your visceral fat meaning that everything functions more effectively. Less insulin means less fat storage (in a nutshell, although more info can be found on this online). The diet was designed to reduce T2 diabetes symptoms (or even reverse it entirely) but can also be used for weightloss.

Eat:
Meats and fish
Oils
Eggs
Full fat dairy products
Nuts, seeds
Pulses/ beans
Veg that grows above ground
Limit fruit: apples, pears, berries- in moderation, with meals, with fats

Occasional alcoholic drinks allowed (spirits, red wine are preferable to beer, lager, etc)
Tea and coffee, herbal tea etc.
And water- drink lots of water!

Avoid
sugar, sweets, and ‘naturally occurring sugars’ such as fructose, maltose, honey, agave, puréed dates etc....

Potatoes of any variety
Pasta
Rice
Breakfast cereals (occasional steel cut oats are ok)
Breads/ flour based products

Exercise:
Michael Moseley recommends HIIT workouts to increase calorie burn and help to tone up, and recommends walking more (increasing your steps weekly until you hit around 10000 a day)

Mindfulness
MM also suggests a programme of mindfulness, meditation, practised for a few minutes each day.

How to follow the plan:
Fast800: follow the plan above, sticking to 800 calories every day for 2 weeks. Ideal to give your weightloss a real kick start, plus improve your insulin function and reduce your sugar cravings.
8 weeks BSD- 8 weeks, follow the guidelines above- 800 calories a day. You don’t need to count carbs grams because the diet is naturally self limiting.
BSD 5:2- for a more leisurely weightloss journey, or as maintenance, or once you’ve done an 8 week stint or 2 weeks of Fast800, you can play around with a combination of increased calorie count, ‘free eating’ and fasting days (800 cals) until you achieve your goals. Many of our long standing members now follow this approach.

You can stop 800 calorie days at any time once you achieve your goal. It’s advised to limit yourself to 12 weeks maximum at 800 calorie days, but you should get excellent results in 8 weeks. Depending on your weightloss goals, you can do further ‘rounds’ of either the 8 week BSD or the Fast800.

Time restricted eating/TRE :
In addition to the fast800/ BSD plan you can incorporate a strategy of time restricted eating. Put simply, this means only eating between certain times each day to maximise your fasting time. TRE has shown to have positive results for weightloss, even if there is no calorie restriction, and increases insulin sensitivity/reduces insulin resistance. At first, try for a clear 12 hours without food each 24 hours, increasing to 16:8 as you get more adept at fasting.

Some useful links:
BSD and Fast800 support thread #17
http://www.mumsnet.com/Talk/fasting_diet/3787860-bsd-and-fast800-support-thread-17

Previous thread

Meal planning ideas thread
Blood sugar diet recipe thread and menu planner meal planning thread

<a class="break-all" href="http://go.mumsnet.com/?xs=1&id=470X1554755&url=healthyeater.com/important-tool-weight-loss" target="_blank">TDEE calculator to calculate your daily calorie requirement

information about the ‘whoosh’ phenomenon

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31
agteacht · 27/03/2020 07:12

@CiorstanMI day 18, can I ask what your weight loss has been?

@Cream123 you still sound focused to me, it may not be as bad as you think!

@thenewaveragebear1983 thank you that's reassuring!

Am I following the right rule of thumb that ideally carbs should be under 50g (and as low as possible)? Do people manage losses on higher?

CiorstanMI · 27/03/2020 07:24

@Cream123 it's very kind of you to say so but I'm only on day 18 (and I do have serious doubts about how long my willpower will hold out) and I'm also v. vain so for me, making myself report my cals and carbs every evening to the rest of you is a major motivator. Who knew vanity could ever be a useful trait 😄.

@agteacht I lost 8lbs in week 1 and then 1.5lbs in week 2 and the scales are just wobbling backwards and forwards this week so it's hard to tell if I'm losing anything at the moment, which is a bit disheartening. I'm hoping for an encouraging whoosh soon.🤞

thenewaveragebear1983 · 27/03/2020 19:25

I've had a good (ish) day. I ran a nice 10km this morning but then gave been rather sedentary the rest of the day totalling 13k including my run! Lots of work meetings, trying out Zoom with family and baking with Ds. Busy but sedentary.

Foods been ok. I had broth at about 12 then a bit of antipasto, Stilton and lettuce which sounds weird but was yummy. I decided that dairy free wasn't possible right now, partly because of cost and also because DF is only eaten by me and stock control means I can only get 2 of certain things. And also because cheese is bloody yummy and no one's going to see my hideous rosacea face for a few weeks anyway

Dinner tonight will be sausages in some context. They have been cooked but not eaten yet as waiting til dc go to bed.

I am worrying myself doolally as I have a tight sore throat today. I know I'm Being anxious for probably no reason but I am having moments of sheer terror and I have had to drink wine to take the edge off my nerves. Medicinal...

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CiorstanMI · 27/03/2020 20:22

Day 18, 862 cals & 36g carbs. Terrible craving for chocolate this evening but I drank green tea, which I don't like very much but does seem to stop me being snacky.

agteacht · 27/03/2020 23:05

@CiorstanMI 9.5lb in 2 weeks is amazing! Look forward to hearing about the whoosh!

@thenewaveragebear1983 wine sounds great - my anxiety equivalent was a large gin!

Well day 3 here and a sneaky look suggests the scales have ever so slightly edged downwards, which helped me through the hunger today. I feel fine now but I struggle from mid morning through to dinner. Again I couldn't hit 800 cal and came in at 970 and 66g carbs.

Here's what I had in case of any tips or feedback!

Breakfast: 2 eggs, bacon, tomatoes, coffee - 269 cals, 9.3g carb (6.3g was the milk...)

Lunch: chicken slices, rocket, cherry tomatoes, 300g soup - 209 cals, 18.3g carbs (14g was the soup...)

Dinner: turkey mince, veg, 30g rice - 394 cals, 33g carbs (14g was the rice and 6g was from peppers??!)

Snacks: 1 G&T; Propercorn popcorn 10g pack (42 cals and 5.4g carbs in this)

So the obvious things to cut out are:
Coffee (can't!)
Soup (needed it for hunger)
Rice from dinner (again, needed it for hunger)
Peppers (can't believe the carbs! But low cal. What a shame)
Snacks (noooo...)

I can see where I could have made cuts but not sure what I would have instead to keep me on track.

Tomorrow's looking a bit better as I managed to buy prawns today which will help with the lunchtime count. But I'm out of bacon and eggs... I was going to have an oats so simple sachet but now see it has 24g carbs. So I'm going to have it with water instead of milk as it reduces calories from 180 to 100 and carbs from 24 to 16g. Still a lot more than I'd like but not sure what else to have other than eggs which are like gold-dust here at the moment!

Wishing you all a good day tomorrow!

CiorstanMI · 28/03/2020 00:16

Hi @agteacht. I keep a stock of mini babybels in case I need a snack. They're full of protein and no carbs at all so I find them really useful. I also tend to have greek yoghurt for breakfast for the same reasons. Like you I've found that soup is surprisingly carby so I only have it a couple of times a week and pick the lowest carb option I can find.

I struggled to keep my carbs below 50g at first too but a bit of experimentation and adaptation and I'm finding it easier now. Good luck.

CiorstanMI · 28/03/2020 00:20

Ooh forgot to mention also quinoa is a good swap for rice and, believe it or not I was looking for courgetti in Tesco's and couldn't find any but found something called 'swoodles' instead (yes, noodles made of swede). Was dubious but had them with Quorn Bolognese instead of spaghetti and it was actually quite nice.

thenewaveragebear1983 · 28/03/2020 08:39

@agteacht , good start. You don't need to give up coffee!
Here's my tips: Ditch the rice, ASAP. Peppers are fine. the fibre in the skins helps slow down the absorption. They are technically fruit so higher in fructose than some veg, but they are ok.

G& slimline is ok, obviously mind the cals and the sweetener, but it's zero carbs and needs must at the moment. Ditch the popcorn, even salted.
Any snacks play havoc with your insulin, and reduce your 'fasting time' so cutting down your eating occasions will always help even if the total calories consumed are the same. As your insulin control improves then you'll probably notice you don't need snacks so much anyway.
If you are really wanting to get below 800 have you considered just not having breakfast? You might be surprised at how quickly you begin to manage without it, you increase your fasting window, and obviously it's one less meal then. I find I am significantly less 'snacky' during the day if I delay eating longer.

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thenewaveragebear1983 · 28/03/2020 08:52

Also: I weighed in today at 10.4 which I wasn't expecting as it's a maintain and quite near my lowest weight which under the circumstances is a bloody miracle. I did do a long run yesterday but did very little else. I do have an amazing capacity to retain water before and during my period so perhaps this is actually weightloss from last week finally showing now I'm not so bloated. Anyway, I won't complain!

Going to be a weird weekend. No bootcamp this morning but I am going to do a hiit workout in the garden when I muster up the energy. I'll have a salad lunch and I have my soup/broth, and then dinner will be a roast chicken which I'm hoping to get two meals worth of meat from, maybe a curry tonight and a casserole tomorrow.

Anyway, have a good day everyone. I'm trying to take a social media break this weekend as I am frazzled with the constant information and I think due to being trapped in and bored I am going a bit square eyed!

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bluepixie · 28/03/2020 15:27

I’ll be back tmrw rearing to go (I saw as I eat some mini eggs).

I also use baby bel for a snacK! No ur doing great @CiorstanMI who cares what reason is! I’m hoping ur daily updates will keep me on track for tmrw. Just planning my meals right now...

@agteacht I did 1000 cals for first week then 900 and then got into swing of 850....I found changing my milk coffee to one with just 15ml if whole milk and taking out my dark choc and rice meant 850 was doable and actually u feel more full of u change the rice for veg and some good fat (like Avacado nuts etc)....

agteacht · 28/03/2020 15:56

Thanks for all the tips everyone. Next time I'm in the shops I will definitely buy babybel - great idea for a snack!

Also great to hear you scaled up Cream123 as that's what I'm starting to think will be easiest.

Will ditch the rice though...

I just went back through MyFitnessPal and found entries from a couple of months back when I was tracking and sticking to 1200cals but not really losing. I wasn't looking at carbs at all. You will be horrified to know that I ranged between 120g and 180g a day!! So even getting to 60g the last few days is a significant improvement thank god.

Bear - I remember being 10.4 once, congrats!!
I remember being 9.5 too... just... doubt that's realistic again!!

thenewaveragebear1983 · 28/03/2020 16:03

@agteacht I remember being 9.5 once too...and dieting all summer to be 9.2 because I wanted to get rid of my non existent chub. Oh if I only I was as thin as when I first thought i was fat....Grin

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agteacht · 28/03/2020 16:45

@thenewaveragebear1983 if only 😂

CiorstanMI · 28/03/2020 21:08

Day 20, 783 calories and 21g carbs. Kitchen closed.

agteacht · 28/03/2020 22:06

@CiorstanMI what dies a 21g carb day look like if you don't mind me asking?

Tomorrow I'm going to focus on drinking more water to help with this initial hunger and because I should be drinking more in any case.

bluepixie · 29/03/2020 09:17

Hi girls I’m back on this today!!!

My dh made me a veg lentil tagine but hasn’t weighed it so I’m gonna have to guess! I was annoyed at him to begin with as I like to weigh it all out but then realised how lovely it was he cooked me something healthy to help me get going again!

So today
2 eggs and smoked salmon
Lentil veg stew - I’m over exag the calories and weight on this
Chicken and broccoli stir fry with soya chilli and garlic

Will be 850 cals 45g carbs which is more carbs that I do usually but got to eat this veg stew that has been lovingly made!

Going for my one excercise a day now which will be a long walk. Where I live is nice and quiet and everyone listens to the rules and stays about 6m from one another!

bluepixie · 29/03/2020 09:24

@agteacht I usually do about 25/30 carbs when I’m in the swing my day would be something like this

Boiled eggs and salmon or avacado
Coffee only 15mls whole milk in each and I have 2 of these a day
Prawn salad (home made) chicken salad or tuna salad
Chicken stir fry/turkey bolengase no pasta or rice/marinated chicken and veg/cod with chick peas (this is tasty but has more carbs in so I totally cut carbs from the rest of the day)
Snacks - babybel and nuts and if not had eggs I’ll have a boiled egg for a snack.

But don’t worry so much re carbs. Ur calorie restriction will help and this diet is about healthy eating. Lentils chick peas etc are high carbs but good for you so it’s best to stick to low/moderate carbs but eat good stuff and watch your calories over everything

I will be starving today as I’ve had a week off the diet. I’ve consumed pizza wine biscuits mini eggs bread Nutella. U name it!

My top tips for hunger

  • loads of water. Sparkling water. Still water. Flavoured teas.
  • when I’m hungry I push myself an hour. And tell myself I get to eat on a bit (I’ve wanted Brekkie since 9 but I’ll eat it at 10)
  • if I’m really starving it’s better to go over calories to 1000 and eat something healthy rather than raiding the entire cupboard of biscuits coz ur too hungry!
  • the thread! The girls are very good and I tell myself they are managing so I should too!
CiorstanMI · 29/03/2020 09:30

I don't usually manage to be quite as low carb as I was yesterday @agteacht. I missed breakfast (not my normal practice) and had a salad of avocado, tomato, Quorn ham slices and a tablespoon of pumpkin seeds for lunch. And for supper I had an adaptation of a salmon pasta Alfredo dish I usually make which meant replacing the spaghetti with slivers of courgette, and I had a large serving of broccoli with that. I also had 2 or 3 babybels.

I don't eat meat, which makes this diet a bit more challenging and I suspect I'm leaning a little too heavily on dairy products (my skin is looking a bit greasy 😫). My approach has largely been to take some of the meals I'm accustomed to make but remove any pasta or potatoes or rice, eg: veggie sausage casserole with no potatoes, spag bol with swoodles instead of spag, lentil lasagne with aubergine instead of pasta. I'm also having an omelette twice a week. And I'm batch cooking everything else 5 portions at a time so I only have to cook once a week (I hate cooking!).

As far as the hunger is concerned I find that as long as I keep the protein above 50g and the carbs below 50g it's generally not a problem at all, weirdly so.

Just keep experimenting until you find a menu that works for you.

agteacht · 29/03/2020 09:48

Great tips thank you both makes total sense!

And very sweet of your DH to make you the tagine @Cream123 Smile

thenewaveragebear1983 · 29/03/2020 09:54

Some really good advice there!

With regards to the carbs, you will begin to find what works for you and what doesn't. I find lentils and beans just give me terrible carb cravings, far more than bread for example (so if I had eg. A slice of toast one day in an emergency I'd probably be ok, but lentil soup would have me in the biscuits...)
I'm finding since reintroducing dairy I am craving carbs more overall. It may be coincidental I don't know, coupled with the fact that there are carbs in the house that we wouldn't normally have. But I'm definitely noticing that I am eating more carbs.

To be fair though this week has been a rollercoaster of emotions and I am hopeful that next week I will settle back down into some sort of routine. The week after my period is usually my optimum weight loss week so I am going to embrace that and attempt to be super strict. We are ok for food currently and will need fresh stuff midweek I reckon, but it's entirely possible for me to have a really focussed and low carbs week if I actually believe that and follow the rules!

Today I'm having a brunch of veggie sausages, egg and black pudding with mushrooms. Dinner will be a gammon joint which I will serve with roast parsnips and carrots and an Eastern European hash made with celeriac and sauerkraut. I'm also pre-cooking a fish pie which will use up all the bits of frozen fish which are clogging up my freezer, which will have a cauliflower cheese and soy bean mash topping. That will be dinner tomorrow (for me and Dh)

My plan today is to run, then do these various cooking tasks, and also to tidy my toiletries cupboard (Marie kondo style) to identify what I have been inadvertently hoarding for years and actually use these products up in a bit of a 'princessing' mission (so I emerge from isolation slim, glossy and groomed like a thoroughbred pony, not the bedraggled old donkey I a currently....)

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bluepixie · 29/03/2020 12:56

Veg tagine was lovely
Hope it keeps me going till 5...the days r so long !!!!!!

Lndnmummy · 29/03/2020 14:16

Hey everyone! Well done for sticking at it in these hard times. I’m going to use this time in quarantine to really crack this eating situation. I do struggle a little as being stuck in a flat with 3 boys make me crave carbs and sugar.
Can I ask you guys how you do things these days? Tips on dealings with cravings and temptations when they are in the house?
Any mindfulness apps or anything that you have found particularly helpful?
Meal plans that keep you in the straight and narrow?

thenewaveragebear1983 · 29/03/2020 14:48

I really liked the Paul McKenna hypno for quitting sugar @Lndnmummy, have you thought of something like that? Other than that I am finding planning it out is really important, more so than ever right now. I've been through the freezer again today and planned the next few days meals.
Making my soup is helping too, because I know it's there if I feel an urge. There are more cakes and biscuits in this house right now than ever, even at Christmas because I tend to not buy them until I need them at Xmas. I have, i confess, had something each day, eg a wispa yesterday, or a biscuit or three but I am really trying to savour it and ensure that the rest of the time I am on plan as best as possible.

I was thinking today how incredibly thankful I am that I have built exercise into my life, it is literally saving me in so many ways right now: mental health, stress relief, just getting outdoors and coming home exhausted. I genuinely feel for anyone who is trapped indoors right now. A good hiit workout that leaves you breathless could help, really push yourself, open up the windows and go for it!

I felt rubbish this morning after waking early (thought 6, but then realised it was technically 5) and probably drank too much last night. That's Helped spur me on a bit too as I really don't want to feel like that for weeks on end

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thenewaveragebear1983 · 29/03/2020 14:53

Here is my fish pie with cauliflower and broad bean mash

Blood sugar diet and fast800 support thread #18
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bluepixie · 29/03/2020 15:02

Looks yum - how many cals and carbs in a portion. Share the recipie!
Am feeling fine and done 10000 steps in my one outing for the day.
Looking fwd to 5 when I can start making dinner!

I have no tips as I’ve consumed so many calories this last week. I’m back on it today and feeling focussed. It’s all in the mind isn’t it. Let’s see how long it lasts! I find this thread keeps me in line (except for last week Hmm)