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Fasting / 5:2 diet

Talk about intermittent fasting and 5:2, including what’s worked for others. Mumsnet hasn't checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. You may wish to speak to a medical professional before starting any diet.

Blood sugar diet and fast800 support thread #18

998 replies

thenewaveragebear1983 · 10/03/2020 17:03

Here’s the new thread for the BSD followers, plus those following the Fast800 plan. Everyone is welcome to join us. Here’s a quick recap!

The BSD/fast 800 is a low carb, Mediterranean style way of eating, with the primary aim of stabilising your insulin response when you eat. You achieve this by: eating fewer carbs, cutting out sugar and sweet tasting foods including most fruit, and by following a low calorie plan that reduces your visceral fat meaning that everything functions more effectively. Less insulin means less fat storage (in a nutshell, although more info can be found on this online). The diet was designed to reduce T2 diabetes symptoms (or even reverse it entirely) but can also be used for weightloss.

Eat:
Meats and fish
Oils
Eggs
Full fat dairy products
Nuts, seeds
Pulses/ beans
Veg that grows above ground
Limit fruit: apples, pears, berries- in moderation, with meals, with fats

Occasional alcoholic drinks allowed (spirits, red wine are preferable to beer, lager, etc)
Tea and coffee, herbal tea etc.
And water- drink lots of water!

Avoid
sugar, sweets, and ‘naturally occurring sugars’ such as fructose, maltose, honey, agave, puréed dates etc....

Potatoes of any variety
Pasta
Rice
Breakfast cereals (occasional steel cut oats are ok)
Breads/ flour based products

Exercise:
Michael Moseley recommends HIIT workouts to increase calorie burn and help to tone up, and recommends walking more (increasing your steps weekly until you hit around 10000 a day)

Mindfulness
MM also suggests a programme of mindfulness, meditation, practised for a few minutes each day.

How to follow the plan:
Fast800: follow the plan above, sticking to 800 calories every day for 2 weeks. Ideal to give your weightloss a real kick start, plus improve your insulin function and reduce your sugar cravings.
8 weeks BSD- 8 weeks, follow the guidelines above- 800 calories a day. You don’t need to count carbs grams because the diet is naturally self limiting.
BSD 5:2- for a more leisurely weightloss journey, or as maintenance, or once you’ve done an 8 week stint or 2 weeks of Fast800, you can play around with a combination of increased calorie count, ‘free eating’ and fasting days (800 cals) until you achieve your goals. Many of our long standing members now follow this approach.

You can stop 800 calorie days at any time once you achieve your goal. It’s advised to limit yourself to 12 weeks maximum at 800 calorie days, but you should get excellent results in 8 weeks. Depending on your weightloss goals, you can do further ‘rounds’ of either the 8 week BSD or the Fast800.

Time restricted eating/TRE :
In addition to the fast800/ BSD plan you can incorporate a strategy of time restricted eating. Put simply, this means only eating between certain times each day to maximise your fasting time. TRE has shown to have positive results for weightloss, even if there is no calorie restriction, and increases insulin sensitivity/reduces insulin resistance. At first, try for a clear 12 hours without food each 24 hours, increasing to 16:8 as you get more adept at fasting.

Some useful links:
BSD and Fast800 support thread #17
http://www.mumsnet.com/Talk/fasting_diet/3787860-bsd-and-fast800-support-thread-17

Previous thread

Meal planning ideas thread
Blood sugar diet recipe thread and menu planner meal planning thread

<a class="break-all" href="http://go.mumsnet.com/?xs=1&id=470X1554755&url=healthyeater.com/important-tool-weight-loss" target="_blank">TDEE calculator to calculate your daily calorie requirement

information about the ‘whoosh’ phenomenon

OP posts:
Thread gallery
31
thenewaveragebear1983 · 27/04/2020 14:34

@Teaismynewfriend where are you that you're Dd is going back to school? Not UK???

OP posts:
Teaismynewfriend · 27/04/2020 15:24

@Cream123
It messes with my head the losing, gaining and then losing again with an overall smaller loss!! But I can't keep this up every day and I need my weekend treats!!
@thenewaveragebear1983 I am in Switzerland. We're a little ahead of the UK in the progress of the pandemic. The lockdown is starting to ease as of today.

bluepixie · 27/04/2020 15:42

I’m same @teaismynewfriend. Absolute intent on only having one day off this weekend!!! And keeping strong the rest of the week! I’m starving. 1 hour till my dinner!

thenewaveragebear1983 · 27/04/2020 16:47

@Teaismynewfriend that's reassuring to hear that things are going to ease back to normal though. I bet your Dd is excited to see her friends.

OP posts:
bluepixie · 27/04/2020 17:31

Kitchen closed
830 and 24g carbs

IgglePiggleNotInBed · 27/04/2020 18:56

Ending today on 795 cals and 52g carbs

Whattheladybirdsaidnext · 27/04/2020 19:16

Finishing on 813 cal and 25g carbs

Itshotoday · 27/04/2020 19:31

Hi folks- I was wondering if this diet is positively , negatively or having no impact on your premenstrual tension if you suffer with it?

Thanks,

agteacht · 27/04/2020 19:42

Hi all
I have been using MFP to track but had a free trial which has ended so have moved to FatSecret because MFP no longer gives much as much granularity of macros (outside of premium).

Made Tom Kerridge's flatbread tonight and there's a big disparity between MFP and FS on the carb count.

MFP says 9g carbs, FS says 8.x but only 2g net carbs. His book says 3g carbs.
Puzzled 😂😂😂

I guess MFP is wrong which means I overcounted last time I had them, which is no big deal, but a bit strange.
They were yum btw!

Blood sugar diet and fast800 support thread #18
CiorstanMI · 27/04/2020 20:11

Kitchen closing on day 50 at 931 calories and 54g carbs (slipped up and ate 3 water biscuits - so wild 🤭)

Did my weigh in for the end of week 7 this morning and I've put on 0.2kg since last week, which is galling 😖. Suspect the universe is teaching me a lesson for being so smug about how much weight I lost in week 6 😕! So the running total is 8kg lost (17.5lb)

Hey @agteacht I've been thinking about what I'm going to do when the 8 weeks are up. I know you can do this for up to 12 weeks and I feel like I should probably keep going but I can't say I'm enthusiastic about another 4 weeks of this. I think I'll probably just do 1 week at a time and see how I feel at the end of each week before committing to another one. How are you getting on? I think you're only a couple of weeks behind me.

thenewaveragebear1983 · 27/04/2020 20:12

Is that because mfp is counting total carbs whereas FS is counting total less fibre and giving 2g net? It would figure when seeing the recipe because it looks to be high fibre. Just be mindful of Any food items where they could have been added by just anyone as the can sometimes be waaay out.

Today I have had a good day, but I imagine a little bit cal and carb heavy. However, it's been all on plan and no snacks and no sugar, so that's ok for today.
I had falafel and houmous and lettuce for lunch, and homemade pesto lamb with cheesy cauliflower mash for dinner, with 3 strawberries in alpro for pudding.

I've prepped my porridge for tomorrow, I've done it like overnight oats so added soy milk, yoghurt, frozen fruit etc and I did add 15g oats to the chia, flax and almond. I won't say it looks delicious, but it looks filling and I will enjoy it after my run tomorrow. That will be my lunch, then dinner will be cottage pie with the remains of my cauli mash from today as topping.

Today was the first time I felt like I did a "normal" shop; managed to get everything and did s full week plus restocked the store cupboard items which have become very depleted. Menu is all planned for the week now so I feel quite motivated.

OP posts:
thenewaveragebear1983 · 27/04/2020 20:18

This is what I got for your recipe as well:

Total carbs = 59, less 16g fibre so...,43g net? Divided by 6 would be 7 and a bit g net carbs?

Personally to be sure I would enter your own food item using the packaging you have, and work out from that. That's a big disparity between both sites and also from the recipe book itself. Maybe different brands of these flours/powders etc have wildly different values.

OP posts:
thenewaveragebear1983 · 27/04/2020 20:20

This would help

Blood sugar diet and fast800 support thread #18
OP posts:
agteacht · 27/04/2020 21:09

So confusing! Thanks for having a look, bear. I've inputted the exact brands and measurements I used and get 2g net carbs on FS. Well I've eaten it now anyway 😂 not ideal this tracking thing sometimes!!

The porridge overnight is a good idea. I might try that. I eat it 4 or 5 times a week so I pre-mix a load in advance and then spoon it in and add the almond milk on the day.

Glad you are feeling so much better!

agteacht · 27/04/2020 21:15

Hey @CiorstanMI sorry the scales weren't kind this week but it's a tiny fluctuation and your total loss is amazing.

I am planning 8 weeks but maybe I'll keep going, it depends on how much I lose over the next three as I'm coming to the end of week 5. But I think your one week at a time approach sounds sensible. Also I am not following it quite as strictly as you are to be honest.

I guess the bit that worries me most is, say I keep going and get to my target, which would be roughly 2 stone lost and I'm about halfway there now. I'm worried I won't be able to maintain that and that would be really negative after losing all the weight.

So I'm wondering if I should 'trial' maintenance at the end of week 8, if that makes sense. See how I can figure out a plan to maintain whatever weight I am then. And if I manage to maintain for a few weeks, then I'll restart and try to lose the rest of the weight, knowing I'm able to maintain.

That is a bit more long-winded of an approach but I will still be at a very good weight after week 8 versus where I was, I'm not seeing anyone I know during lockdown anyway, and I am on maternity leave until end of August. So I do have time. That's my musings anyway for what it's worth!

LarryUnderwood · 27/04/2020 22:23

Ok finishing for the day on 802 cals 25g carbs. That's less than I'd planned, I'd allowed for a protein shake with avocado as a snack but actually didn't need it. Also did 2.2 mile jog this am. So a very good day 1! Made the red thai curry for dinner, did 4 portions so I have ready made dinners for a few days too, which I hope will help when I'm cooking for the rest of the family. I've planned out different meals for me for this week as I just really struggle to just have what they have minus the carbs.

NathanNathan · 27/04/2020 22:52

I'm only on week 3 and I've already had a think about what to do after.

I'm very much treating this as a short sharp measure to reduce my internal fat and regulate my insulin. Then I'm going to move to 5:2 with the hope of continuing to lose, although accepting it's slower will be annoying!

I don't think is sustainable for me long term, and I don't want to undo my habits.Smile

agteacht · 27/04/2020 23:57

Sounds logical @NathanNathan. Are you planning to do the 8 weeks and then 5:2?

I need to get my head around what a 'normal' / 5 day could look like versus a 2 day. But certainly if that approach could work it feels like it would really be sustainable long-term.

NathanNathan · 27/04/2020 23:59

Yes aiming for 8 weeks. And then it may be 4:3 if needed to keep losing.

NathanNathan · 28/04/2020 00:01

Do you mean "normal" like what would you eat?

When I do 5:2/4:3 I'm still going to low carb, but probably not as low, I'll be tracking on MFP still and aiming for my TDEE of the weight I'd like to be on non fast days.

This is as much about learning new good habits for me as anything else, and I want to get into a good long term structure once I've broken the bad binge/snacking habits.

agteacht · 28/04/2020 00:38

Yes - well more specifically number of calories and carb count. If a 2 day is 800 cals and 30g carb for example, is a 5 day 1400 and 70g? Totally made those numbers up but I guess some of it will be trial and error. Think I might need to read some of the book again too.

But I'm in the sane place as you re: habits. For example I don't want to eat bread anymore so I'd like to keep away from it long-term now. I figure we have retrained our taste buds so in many ways the hard bit is done.

Kimlek · 28/04/2020 00:55

@agteacht So I'm wondering if I should 'trial' maintenance at the end of week 8, if that makes sense. See how I can figure out a plan to maintain whatever weight I am then. And if I manage to maintain for a few weeks, then I'll restart and try to lose the rest of the weight, knowing I'm able to maintain.
That’s pretty much what I thought. I started this woe after Xmas but seriously slow loss. Need 2 stone off. Got to 1 stone late February/early March and have kinda maintained since then. I was very careful at first but last few weeks I’m seriously slipping with booze, sweet treats (kids constantly baking and I eat it not them). I’ve not meal planned per se other than what I’ve always done for the family. It’s been interesting. I’ve learnt my weak spots and understand that there’s no way I could maintain and relax. I need to key my eye on the ball.
I’m now going to start meal planning again, cutting back the booze and the blinking baked goods!! Plus throw in a few fasting sessions. I know my insulin resistance will be dreadful now so it’ll be interesting to see how I go and what craving are like.

CiorstanMI · 28/04/2020 07:32

I've already worked out what I hope will be a 'normal' menu for me once I've lost all the weight I hope to lose. It's not particularly low carb, as I don't think that's sustainable for me in the long term, it should allow me a few treats at the weekends and only involves one fast day per week. However I am seeing it as a first draft and accept that it will probably need some adjustment when I finally get there.

My idea for the transition period (once the initial 12 weeks is complete) is to swap to alternating fast days with 'normal but controlled' days until I've lost the rest of the weight (hoping that will only be about 7lbs by that point). Then I plan to gradually reduce the number of fasting days per week until, with any luck, I can get down to one only. We'll see if it works ...

thenewaveragebear1983 · 28/04/2020 08:39

Morning everyone..

Maintenance is hard, and neither of the books really spells it out for you so you have to try various methods and find what works. At least there are options: more cals daily; 5:2 method; kept up time restricted eating; have "days off" and "days on" or simply just to gradually reintroduce the foods you've stopped having (don't recommend this one!Grin)

I will say now, I have struggled with maintenance. My personal strategy (I don't really recommend it) is to have some periods of being very "on plan" but my weekends go to absolute carnage. Periodically my weeks do too and I then will regain weight, and then, like now, have to return to losing rather than maintaining . It feels very chaotic sometimes. The single thing that has kept my weight down is running, and because my daily calorie burn is high I can afford to eat more at the weekends although I do kick myself because I could be very slim if I just stopped the weekend madness for a month or so!

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NathanNathan · 28/04/2020 09:09

@agteacht yes I'm not sure about the calories carbs balance you mention in your first paragraph.

I may have a look on the 5:2 threads here as well as a maintenance Facebook group and see what people recommend, but you're right, some of it will be trial and error.

I'm hoping to get about 1.5 stone off in the 8 weeks, and then I've still got at least 2.5 more to get to a good BMI.

I don't think it's practical for me to do anymore 800 cals after the first 8 weeks as I think I'll slip, undo my habits and beat myself up, and if I did manage it I think I'd then struggle to find a good way to maintain after so long at 800, I'd probably just crash back into old habits.

It's all tricky, but I'm hopeful Mosleys suggestion of how to maintain/5:2 approach will work to continue slowly losing the rest.

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