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Fasting / 5:2 diet

Talk about intermittent fasting and 5:2, including what’s worked for others. Mumsnet hasn't checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. You may wish to speak to a medical professional before starting any diet.

Blood sugar diet and fast800 support thread #18

998 replies

thenewaveragebear1983 · 10/03/2020 17:03

Here’s the new thread for the BSD followers, plus those following the Fast800 plan. Everyone is welcome to join us. Here’s a quick recap!

The BSD/fast 800 is a low carb, Mediterranean style way of eating, with the primary aim of stabilising your insulin response when you eat. You achieve this by: eating fewer carbs, cutting out sugar and sweet tasting foods including most fruit, and by following a low calorie plan that reduces your visceral fat meaning that everything functions more effectively. Less insulin means less fat storage (in a nutshell, although more info can be found on this online). The diet was designed to reduce T2 diabetes symptoms (or even reverse it entirely) but can also be used for weightloss.

Eat:
Meats and fish
Oils
Eggs
Full fat dairy products
Nuts, seeds
Pulses/ beans
Veg that grows above ground
Limit fruit: apples, pears, berries- in moderation, with meals, with fats

Occasional alcoholic drinks allowed (spirits, red wine are preferable to beer, lager, etc)
Tea and coffee, herbal tea etc.
And water- drink lots of water!

Avoid
sugar, sweets, and ‘naturally occurring sugars’ such as fructose, maltose, honey, agave, puréed dates etc....

Potatoes of any variety
Pasta
Rice
Breakfast cereals (occasional steel cut oats are ok)
Breads/ flour based products

Exercise:
Michael Moseley recommends HIIT workouts to increase calorie burn and help to tone up, and recommends walking more (increasing your steps weekly until you hit around 10000 a day)

Mindfulness
MM also suggests a programme of mindfulness, meditation, practised for a few minutes each day.

How to follow the plan:
Fast800: follow the plan above, sticking to 800 calories every day for 2 weeks. Ideal to give your weightloss a real kick start, plus improve your insulin function and reduce your sugar cravings.
8 weeks BSD- 8 weeks, follow the guidelines above- 800 calories a day. You don’t need to count carbs grams because the diet is naturally self limiting.
BSD 5:2- for a more leisurely weightloss journey, or as maintenance, or once you’ve done an 8 week stint or 2 weeks of Fast800, you can play around with a combination of increased calorie count, ‘free eating’ and fasting days (800 cals) until you achieve your goals. Many of our long standing members now follow this approach.

You can stop 800 calorie days at any time once you achieve your goal. It’s advised to limit yourself to 12 weeks maximum at 800 calorie days, but you should get excellent results in 8 weeks. Depending on your weightloss goals, you can do further ‘rounds’ of either the 8 week BSD or the Fast800.

Time restricted eating/TRE :
In addition to the fast800/ BSD plan you can incorporate a strategy of time restricted eating. Put simply, this means only eating between certain times each day to maximise your fasting time. TRE has shown to have positive results for weightloss, even if there is no calorie restriction, and increases insulin sensitivity/reduces insulin resistance. At first, try for a clear 12 hours without food each 24 hours, increasing to 16:8 as you get more adept at fasting.

Some useful links:
BSD and Fast800 support thread #17
http://www.mumsnet.com/Talk/fasting_diet/3787860-bsd-and-fast800-support-thread-17

Previous thread

Meal planning ideas thread
Blood sugar diet recipe thread and menu planner meal planning thread

<a class="break-all" href="http://go.mumsnet.com/?xs=1&id=470X1554755&url=healthyeater.com/important-tool-weight-loss" target="_blank">TDEE calculator to calculate your daily calorie requirement

information about the ‘whoosh’ phenomenon

OP posts:
Thread gallery
31
NathanNathan · 14/04/2020 10:22

Thanks @Kimlek that's super useful. Really appreciate it Daffodil

thenewaveragebear1983 · 14/04/2020 10:54

Ok so the protein thing: technically all foods cause insulin secretion, not just carbs. Carbs obviously the most, then protein, then fat (very very tiny raise in insulin levels). However, it's very hard to overeat fat. Protein, not so much (bbq anyone?) but carbs= v easy to overeat. Insulin is released as a response to various signals and only one of which is raised blood sugar. So be mindful that eating large quantities of anything, even meat, will cause insulin release and that's what we're trying to avoid here.

Jason Fung does discuss this in the Obesity code. Excessive protein in combination with depleted glycogen does cause you to 'make' glucose from amino acids (in fact that is one of the main functions of the liver and it does it on purpose to fuel the brain) but obviously in excess that glucose is stored exactly the same way any other glucose is stored.

www.ruled.me/what-is-gluconeogenesis/

All that being said: you can't get a whole lot of anything on 800 cals. Even if you ate entirely meat for a day, unless you did it over and over again, you're not going to overeat protein to the extent that it could be detrimental. If you're doing more than 800 cals then I suppose it's wholly possible. The buzzword here is Variety; if you endure your diet is varied and nutritious then you won't be eating too much of any one thing. I think this warning comes more for eg. Body builders or general gym goers who seem to think they need pints of whey protein shakes. Pure, natural, as close to unprocessed protein sources are infinitely better than powders.

There is a balance also with losing muscle tone, although as Fung also says (paraphrase) why would Mother Nature design a machine that stores energy (fat) but then burns its parts (muscles) in times of famine? That's like storing firewood for winter and then burning your furniture when it gets cold.

However, from a training point of view: you do need protein for growth and repair so especially if you are going muscle building exercise, weights, hiit, or anything which can cause muscle damage (running) then ensure sufficient protein. I definitely notice when I am training too hard and not eating enough protein because I am just insanely hungry all the time. When I say 'sufficient' protein, we're taking the upper end of that estimate, so 0.4-0.6g protein per day per pound. If you are near your goal weight use your current weight, if you have a fair amount to lose maybe use your goal weight to calculate, or something in the middle.

OP posts:
NathanNathan · 14/04/2020 11:05

Also super helpful - thanks bear!

My goal weight is five stone off so that was giving me a wide range between the two numbers, picking a weight between my goal and now gives me the same result as Kimlek's calculation.

I do run and do strength exercises (basic at the moment) so I am definitely short of protein currently!

thenewaveragebear1983 · 14/04/2020 20:40

So today has been better, infinitely better than recent days, but by no means perfect. I am ending on around 1200 cals and around 60g carbs. I did run this morning, around 6km and did a total of 15k steps and yoga.

I have realised through the medium of Fitbit data that I am due on in a few days which could go some way to explaining my insatiable carb-appetite the last few days. That makes me feel a bit better because I was concerned that I was in some way 'broken' and that I would just continue to eat and eat and eat until lockdown was over. It also explains my shitty mood and general malaise, so I actually feel quite reassured by this.

Tomorrow: run in the morning, I have found a new path through a local woods but need to go early to avoid too many people; Yoga (definitely feel better once I get into the daily habit). Food will be tuna and salad for lunch, or maybe eggs. Dinner will be a shepherds pie with half Quorn mince, and celeriac topping instead of potato mash.

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CiorstanMI · 14/04/2020 22:06

Day 37: 848 calories & 45g carbs.

Re: the protein debate that's been going on today, I try to keep my protein above 50g a day because it seems to be the magic ingredient that stops me feeling too hungry. I don't eat meat so it can be a bit of a struggle keeping the carbs up and I rely a lot on dairy products. I fear I may soon turn into a mini babybel 🧀🧀🧀

CiorstanMI · 14/04/2020 22:07

Sorry, that should read:

"...it can be a struggle keeping the protein up ..."

Long day!

agteacht · 14/04/2020 22:30

A bit late in the week for me with my weigh in tomorrow and not a great week 3 on the calories front.
But finally I hit 800 cals today (well, 810) and a miraculous only 18g carbs. Helped by having almond milk in my coffee but I'll be back on proper milk tomorrow as it was horrible 😂
Going to try lactose milk when I next get to a supermarket as that might help a bit.

agteacht · 14/04/2020 22:40

Lactose free milk I mean!

Teaismynewfriend · 15/04/2020 06:48

Morning all
I made a good start yesterday, staying within cals and sticking to the right foods. Also detoxing from too much alcohol over the last few weeks so generally feeling quite rough, dehydrated and grumpy. But I know it'll pass, it did last time I did this and after a few days I felt better than ever. It's an exercise in patience and endurance, a marathon not a sprint. A bit like lockdown!!

Plan for today is small breakfast, small lunch and 300-400 cal dinner. I am eating early, going for a 1 hour walk after dinner and going to bed early in order to close the window of temptation!

Have a good day everyone!

bluepixie · 15/04/2020 07:08

I hate almond milk in my coffee too. It’s good for porridge and cereals though (except I hardly eat them now!).
Wine was consumed yest. So expecting a gain on scales but back on it today.
Aim 10.12 by next Monday.

bluepixie · 15/04/2020 07:28

Greek yog and berries
Chicken and broccoli salad
Turkey and mushroom slow cooker thing!
830 and 19 carbs. Must stick to it after yest half a bottle of wine consumption!

thenewaveragebear1983 · 15/04/2020 08:32

I like almond milk in shakes but not in hot drinks. It makes a very nice, non BSD custard though....
What was the reasoning for having almond milk? Was it to cut carbs? I use alpro soya unsweetened and it is exactly like cow milk even in hot drinks and that is zero carbs.

I slept well last night but feel tired still today. I think it's detoxing off alcohol after the weekend! I'm heading out for a run this morning. Must remember to weigh and track all my food today as I was a bit lax yesterday.

Have a good day everyone!

OP posts:
Kimlek · 15/04/2020 08:38

@Teaismynewfriend and @cream123 I’m getting into a very very bad alcohol habit!! DH usually gets home from work around 9pm so lockdown has meant he’s free around 7pm. We’re making the most of this & sitting in the garden having lively chats but with a bottle or two!! 🙄
bear I love how you say you’ve run 6km, done 15000 steps and an hours yoga... and in the same breath feel general malaise! I’d be in an exhausted heap! It’s all relative though isn’t. Hope you feel more upbeat soon! Flowers

Kimlek · 15/04/2020 08:40

@thenewaveragebear1983 you’re already sounding upbeat! Do your kids have the alpro milk too?

thenewaveragebear1983 · 15/04/2020 09:52

@Kimlek no they have cows milk. I only gave up dairy because a friend of mine did it in June last year as a challenge and I did it with her. But then I felt so much better, my skin was clearer etc. I then did around six months with no dairy at all, but gradually have reintroduced cheese and yoghurt. My rosacea has returned as a result. I do need to do the full detox again. The alpro milk is fine though, can't tell the difference so I haven't gone Back to cows.

I guess it is all relative, running is so much a part of my lifestyle now that I feel worse when I don't do it, and trust me I was never like that until a few years ago. I was super unfit! I love the yoga but I do have to make myself do it because I never feel like it. The hiit workouts as well, now my class is closed, I have to force myself to get all the kit out and do it, but I'm always glad when it's done.

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agteacht · 15/04/2020 12:00

Oh alpro soya milk thanks for the tip! Will try that instead as yea it was just to reduce carbs

agteacht · 15/04/2020 12:06

So end of week 3 for me and not much weight loss unfortunately. I can't completely blame the week 3 stagnation that I've read can happen, as my week 3 also included some Easter egg, Prosecco and slices of pizza, as evidenced in my higher average calories from last week...

My calorie and carb counts averaged:
Week 1: 940 cals, 60g carbs
Week 2: 970 cals, 38g carbs
Week 3: 1115 cals, 44g carbs

BUT some non-scale victories... I've measured this morning and lost 2-4 inches from my arms, thighs, hips and stomach! That explains why now I'm able to get back into (the bigger of) my pre-pregnancy jeans. So still feeling positive, hopefully this week I can speed up the weight loss again!

Starting weight: 161.2lbs
Week 1 loss: 6.4lbs
Week 2 loss: 3.4lbs
Week 3 loss: 0.4lbs
Starting weight week 4: 151lbs, so 10.2lbs now lost.

Wishing everyone a great day!

CiorstanMI · 15/04/2020 12:32

Don't despair @agteacht, I seem to remember my weight loss stalling a bit round about week 3 but it picked up again after a week or so (I think it's quite common from other comments I've seen).

thenewaveragebear1983 · 15/04/2020 12:34

@agteacht well done, the inch loss is very motivating isn't it? StarStarStar

OP posts:
NathanNathan · 15/04/2020 12:54

Would people be willing to share where they are in terms of weight loss related to which week? Hearing about other people's success really motivates me!

I'm on day 6. Largely a good week with around 800 - 850 cals and 32 - 40 carbs each day, except yesterday when I got very sad about the outside world and ate a slice of banana bread.

Official weekly weigh in is tomorrow but I started at 15 stone 11, and as of this morning am 15 stone 5.4.

So not bad! Need to keep it up!

NathanNathan · 15/04/2020 12:57

Totally missed agteach's update with exactly what I just did Grin

Teaismynewfriend · 15/04/2020 13:03

Carb flu already on day 2???? Shock
Suddenly feeling terrible, after feeling good this morning! Headache, tiredness, total intolerance of other people, huge sugar cravings. How long does this last!?

thenewaveragebear1983 · 15/04/2020 13:48

@Teaismynewfriend drink lots of water and get some salt (electrolytes eg dioralyte if you have it, or just plain old salt) to help with the carb flu feeling.

@NathanNathan I've been doing this years so I'm pretty much maintenance stage now, although that does mean anywhere on a sliding scale between lowest ever 10.3 and top of limit 10.10 (which is my absolute upper limit now before I kick into to zero tolerance mode!)
I'd love to be 9.10 just for vanity sake but I've been chasing it a loooooooong time now to no avail so I'm not sure I ever will be!

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agteacht · 15/04/2020 13:53

Thanks @thenewaveragebear1983 yea the inch loss helps a lot especially when the scales aren't moving!!

Thanks @CiorstanMI hopefully you are right, I have read too that week 3 can be slow. But some of it was my own fault clearly!!!

@NathanNathan you are doing so well with your calls and carbs. You'll be in a new stone bracket before you know it!

bluepixie · 15/04/2020 14:29

Well done @agteacht U still went down! Keep going.

Been good so far today. Will continue. I have another 10 pounds to get to target. Half way only!