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Fasting / 5:2 diet

Talk about intermittent fasting and 5:2, including what’s worked for others. Mumsnet hasn't checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. You may wish to speak to a medical professional before starting any diet.

5:2 Thread number 88: Anyone trying to pull you down is beneath you - come join our friendly & knowledgeable group to BOOST you up to goal

979 replies

BigChocFrenzy · 22/11/2019 00:06

Welcome to the continuing thread for those following 5:2 or other forms of IF (Intermittent Fasting) such as 4:3, ADF, or daily 16:8 Smile

The 5:2 diet was introduced by Michael Mosely on BBC Horizon on August 2012:

Basically it is 2 very low cal days ("fasts") per week - which need not be consecutive - and eat "normally" to maintain on the other 5 days.

For those who have dieted or maybe overeaten for years, eating "normally"
means roughly the number of calories your body needs to maintain - NOT reduce - its weight (see TDEE calculator below).

IMPORTANT
If you have had past diagnosed Eating Disorders or serious MH problems you should NOT do 5:2 or any other kind of fasting

ACRONYMS

16:8 is a different type of fasting, which can be combined with 5:2.
Daily zero-cal fast for 16 hours and eat within an 8 hour window. To lose weight, this needs a weekly calorie deficit as well

4:3 = fast on 3 non-consecutive days per week

ADF (Alternate-Day Fasting) = fast every other day

b2b (optional) back-to-back / consecutive fast days, each with an increased allowance of 650 calories instead of 500

BMI (Body Mass Index) healthy range is 18.5 - 24.9 for Caucasians. Upper limit may be 22 for some of Asian origin.

FD = single Fast Day: aim for 500 calories (600 for men or 25% TDEE whichever is higher) or 1000 cals for BF
No alcohol or junk on FDs
Even if you exercise strenuously, do NOT increase FD cals to allow for exercise

MFP = My Fitness Pal, a useful App or website to track food & drink calories

miniFD = MiniFD, 850- 1000 calories, no alcohol or junk

NFD = Non-Fast Day, averages around TDEE

NSV / LSV = Non Scale Victory / LifeStyle (change) Victory, e.g. compliment, smaller waist, clothes size

SV = Scale Victory

TDEE = Total Daily Energy Expenditure, the average number of calories you burn in a day, is calculated (see calculators below) from your current weight, height, age, activity level.
Aim to average about this for NFDs.

WOE / WOL = Way Of Eating / Way Of Life. We say this instead of "diet", to emphasise that we must make a permanent change in how we eat, to mainitain our new healthy weight longterm.

HOW TO START

. Take initial measurements: weight, waist, hips
. Use TDEE calculator below if you need a rough guide to how much to eat on NFDs
. Choose any 2 days for FDs, non-consecutive is easier.
. Before each FD: plan, shop & calorie count ALL food & drink for the day

Useful Resources & Calculators

Calorie Counter: mfp
Rough Calories for NFD: Mosely TDEE Calc (exercisers: set activity level to one below what you think)
BMI: Calc
Ideal Weight & Body Frame Size: Calc Wt Frame
Body Fat: BFat Calc
Choose / Visualise Goal Weight:
3D BMI body types ripped to normal
Bod Vis Measurements & 3D rotate]]

Safe Alcohol Calc: Calc Units Cals

FD Recipes:
Mosely LowCarb , low carb Diet Doc
BBC Good Food 52 , BBC Good Food 500 cal meals ,
Good2Know , Foodie Under 200 Cals
Vegetarian ,

FD Ready Meals, Fast Food

Any Day:
Meal Planner

FAQs / Tips

  • WATER: Start each day with a glass of water; and drink plenty during the day.
  • HOT DRINKS: No limits on tea or coffee, but on FDs count any milk / sugar calories.
  • SLEEP: Try to get enough sleep, or it may slow weight loss.
  • EXERCISE: is healthy & can help weight loss - BUT only if you do NOT eat back less than you burn. Fasted training can burn more fat.
HIIT and resistance training both work well with 5:2/IF.
  • FDs: If possible, choose days when you are busy, but not preparing meals for others.
Concentrate on protein & veg; avoid sugar or fruit juice. e.g. Stir-fries, soups & stews. Ready meals are OK.
  • BFers: start with 1000-cal FDs, optionally reduce to 700 cals gradually.
You can return to 1000 if growth spurts or sleep-deprivation require more fuel.
  • NFDs: No rules, but to improve health, try to cut down on added sugar & junk food, keep alcohol within safe limits. A few treats per week are fine.
  • Do NOT fast: if you've ever had EDs, or if pregnant, under 21, over-stressed, fever, stomach bug, even a bad cold.
  • CHECK with your Doctor: if you have diabetes, any other endocrine condition, any serious past or present medical condition, or if taking ANY prescribed medication (fasting may affect absorption rate)

Scientific Evidence for Fasting & Health

BBC article on the original Horizon program

Telegraph comments on 5:2 and gives a brief overview by Dr Mosley, useful for newbies.

This InterviewPart1 and InterviewPart2 with leading ADF researcher Dr Varady explains why fasting helps you to lose weight AND improves some health markers.

Fasting boosts "autophagy" = recycling of old cells
Yoshinori Ohsumi won the 2016 Nobel prize for Medicine for research into autophagy
NOBEL Lecture “Autophagy – An Intracellular Recycling System”

Prof. R Taylor (Newcastle Uni) won the 2013 Diabetes UK Banting Prize for his Twin Cycle Hypothesis re the cause of type 2 diabetes: Twin Cycle Hypothesis T2
and showed a fasting diet could reverse T2

Dr Michelle Harvie (funded by cancer charities) showed possible benefits of intermittent fasting compared to standard daily calorie reduction in her trials (consecutive FDs) with women at high risk of breast cancer: ComparingDiets , EarlierResearch52

Dr Johnson showed intermittent fasting helped Asthma

HORMESIS & Why Intermittent Fasting Works: Mattson , BlackSwan and Hormesis

Molecular Mechanisms and Clinical Applications: J CellMetabolism
Recent research into the health benefits of fasting: e.g. by world-respected neuroscientist Dr MarkMattson (Mosely referred to his research) showed:

. Improved glucose regulation
. Loss of abdominal fat with maintenance of muscle mass
. Reduced blood pressure and heart rate
. Improved learning and memory and motor function
. Protection of neurons in the brain against dysfunction and degeneration in animal models of Alzheimer’s disease, Parkinson’s disease, stroke and Huntington’s disease.

Brain metabolism in health, aging, andneurodegeneration :
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

He compared 5:2 to ordinary daily diets on overweight women with family history of breast cancer.
Fasting group lost more belly fat, retained more muscle & had slightly better blood sugar regulation.

More of his research is in HealthyAging , Health , AvoidParkinsonsDisease

His article in J Aging Mech Disease 2015 explains the health benefits of intermittent fasting in great scientific detail.

Why intermittent fasting and stopping snacking can lower your risk of serious diseases:
Meal frequency and timing in health and disease

Fasting can help maintain brain health during aging:
emboj.embopress.org/content/36/11/1474
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

This interview with leading researchers into fasting in combination with standard cancer treatment: ScientificDiscussion MoselyMattsonLongo and a LongoInterview

NY Times Fasting Overview

Research by other US and European scientists in this DailyTelegraph Article about the medicinal uses of fasting, for many serious conditions & diseases.

Recent trials with Type 2 diabetics and those at risk of having it used a form of daily fasting - skipping supper.
Their conclusions: eating 1-2 meals per day is better than several small meals for losing weight and controlling insulin levels, see Type2Paper

OP posts:
Thread gallery
5
EssentialHummus · 03/12/2019 06:37

Welcome thermos!

Whattodowithaminute · 03/12/2019 07:44

Welcome thermos sound like you’ve had great success previously and will do well on 5:2 again, the support here is lovely.
Hope it’s warmer today 43, well done to Monday fasters-I aborted and will try for b2b Wednesday and Thursday instead as they look more realistic for success. Good luck Tuesday fasters...

TheFabulousThermos · 03/12/2019 07:50

Thanks all, and thanks very much for the advice BicChoc! It's just awful being aware of the weight creeping back on after doing so well... and it is all my own fault!

My diet is pretty good with tonnes of veg, eggs and fish (I'm pescetarian) and not too much crap... I just have a naturally huge appetite and my portions are far too big! I have a bit of an olive oil drizzling habit too which does add up... I do also drink more wine than I should... I will cut that back straight away. Will hopefully benefit my health overall as well as my waistline...

Around work and the kids I might struggle to fit much more exercise in (I genuinely do quite a lot) but totally take your point about the type. Will try to introduce even a small amount of high intensity or weights work if I can. My main problem is simply eating too much though...5:2 really helped with this last time so fingers crossed. I'm happiest around 9st 3 (anything more just goes on as wobbly bits) so fingers crossed...

Excited to be back on it- good luck to anyone else fasting today!

TheFabulousThermos · 03/12/2019 09:40

Oh, nearly forgot. Weighed in at 10st4 this morning. I'd like to lose a stone and be out of size 12/14 trousers and back to size 10/12. I'd also like to get rid of my pot belly (reducing wine will definitely help there!)

I'm planning to go for a late-ish evening swim on any evening I would usually drink wine (usually three evenings per week), as long as my husband is about to watch the kids for an hour. Then I can just have one small drink when I get home if I want one. This will keep me sober early evening (to drive to the gym!) and hopefully I will feel too virtuous to want booze when I get in :-D I do love swimming thankfully so am more than happy to use that as a distraction.

So far today I have had a few coffees (unable to quit that particular vice!) and a boiled egg. Will use the "marmite in hot water" trick mid-morning which really did help last time. And lots of water!

Calledyoulastnightfromglasgow · 03/12/2019 09:44

Welcome thermos!

I’m amazed at how easy the 5:2 is. I like that a few days a week I can still enjoy a dessert. Initially I found the fast days hard but they are a breeze now but I am about 800 calories on a fast day.

I am down to 9 stone 8. Aiming for 9 stone 4 but no more as my BMI is 20.

moonlight1705 · 03/12/2019 09:44

I'm on a FD too today, sitting with a cup of tea trying to keep myself warm in the draughty office. It feels like I am back to normal as DD is back in nursery and routine has established itself again.

Hope your DS is ok skinny

OohMrDarcy · 03/12/2019 10:16

Morning all

FD here and I have left over chilli to have with a sprinkle of grated cheese on later (no rice).

Had a busy weekend christmas shopping etc and back to normal now.

Next FD will be Thursday this week so a bit of a condensed one!

Welcome Thermos, and good luck to any fasters!

Calledyoulastnightfromglasgow · 03/12/2019 11:22

Yes I’m on a FD too. When is lunch?!

BigChocFrenzy · 03/12/2019 11:35

Congratulations on your SV, glasgow
You sound fully in the fasting swing

Good luck on your FDs, MrD, moonlight, glasgow

Good luck on your 1st FD back, thermos
Yep, keeping to no more than 1 glass on any NFD, with some dry days, will help fat loss, especially around the waist.

Your liver prioritises processing alcohol and removing the toxic byproducts, so alcohol stops your body fat-burning until this has completed.

Also, excess alcohol calories are stored preferentially around the mid-section

If you are pushed for time, Shred 1 is just 20 mins
or even shorter:

Mosely's HIIT Fat Blasts - just 2-5 mins on 3-5 days per week, at home or in the park or gym, see 5:2/IF Exercise Thread #3 OP
Research shows they** are surprisingly good at improving fitness and also correcting some insulin metabolism issues.

OP posts:
TheFabulousThermos · 03/12/2019 11:55

Time saving info always appreciated! Thanks - I will have a look.

Being back on it feels really good and positive so far. I hate that awful creeping guilty feeling when you know you are not being healthy enough and weight is creeping back on, clothes getting tight etc.

Currently enjoying some celery dipped in mustard while I get my lunch ready (tuna mixed with a few olives, a chopped onion, chilli flakes and a bit of balsamic vinegar, all wrapped in lettuce leaves). I like strong flavours and spice so anything with mustard or chilli helps me feel like I've had a decent meal...

I normally have a really good drop in the first couple of weeks but then plateau... and this is when I get frustrated and give up / try other methods (like straight calorie counting which I find so much harder to stick to). I need to stay strong this time and keep at it after any initial whoosh (please let me have a whoosh!)

Calledyoulastnightfromglasgow · 03/12/2019 14:03

You will whoosh! Honestly, a fewHIIT workouts and weights in NFD and it will really help

OohMrDarcy · 03/12/2019 16:11

Kitchen closed on 505 here today.

Everyone else doing good?

moonlight1705 · 03/12/2019 16:21

I've planned my meal for later so it will hopefully close on 618 as I ended up having one piece of fudge left in the staff kitchen with my soup lunch not together obviously as that would be disgusting

Still working on the whole not succumbing to temptation thing Blush

OohMrDarcy · 03/12/2019 17:36

Don't worry moonlight it takes perseverance and time, as long as you focus on aiming for it you will get there! 618 is fine anyway

Calledyoulastnightfromglasgow · 03/12/2019 17:48

I have not succumbed To a Lindt truffle.

Share your similar massive triumphs Grin

BigChocFrenzy · 03/12/2019 18:51

Well done on your FD, MrD, moonlight
and on your Lindt triumph, glasgow Grin

You're doing really well, Moonlight
We all work on our FDs and habits one step at a time

Thermos On most diets, there is a higher loss the first 2 weeks, because retained water is being released, as well as fat-burning happening
The average rate of loss on 5:2 after this period is about 1lb per week
(those with a lot to lose and / or high TDEE may lose a few lb per week for quite some time - we've had a few people losing a stone in 2 weeks - but 1lb is about what to expect in your case)

OP posts:
MazDazzle · 03/12/2019 23:01

I did not succumb to homemade fudge. Grin Made three batches with the kids today for a school fundraiser.

Yesterday was DH’s last day at home. He’s away working for the next three weeks. Didn’t want to spend his last day at home fasting, so postponed FD til today.

Had black coffee and water through the day. For dinner I had Thai coconut curry and an apple. I have tomorrow’s lunch and dinner planned out. Looking forward to them already!

aberjenagain · 04/12/2019 00:09

Late check-in! Fd1 done on about 600 - had a small sliver of birthday cake with evening meal, but avoided all the junk at annual work quizmas over lunch. Doing b2b.

Crazy busy here at work and home so a bit out of the loop, but welcome to the newcomers, and congrats to all on the nailed FDs Smile

Calledyoulastnightfromglasgow · 04/12/2019 05:51

FDs just now are way harder aren’t they? If you can do one whilst making fudge I reckon you have nailed it! I also have baking to do for a kids bake sale...

moonlight1705 · 04/12/2019 09:13

I'm really impressed with that dedication Maz - I have to leave baking to a non FD I think. I'm making my own mincemeat tonight but will aim not to lick the spoon too many times.

I will share my triumph though from yesterday as I did my taekwondo class and didn't come home and want to eat afterwards. Yey Smile

Skinnydreams · 04/12/2019 09:51

So fast fail Monday as minnyskinny's illness just got the better of me. Had a pre planned christmas lunch yesterday so fast day attempt here AGAIN today. Hes back at school today, fingers crossed he manages to stay as hes missing all sorts of Christmas fun stuff if not.

I got my rheumatology appt through yesterday for May so this gives me some encouragement to crack on and get some weight off. I dont want to be dismissed (again) for being too fat, I really need some long term help with my joints as my symptoms are worsening the older I get. It's an issue I have put up with since a teen and yes excess weight does not help BUT losing weight will only help, not cure so I still need proper help!!

I will catch up with a coffee later. Just wanted to post to keep me accountable. Did notice good wishes for minnyskinny - thank you for those!

Calledyoulastnightfromglasgow · 04/12/2019 12:55

Skinny it’s the same where I live. Loads of kids off with a flu/tummy thing!

Having said I don’t want to lose much more weight, we had one of those body fat analysis things at work today and I am 27 per cent! Although it’s “normal” it doesn’t really reflect my activity level. So I am totally on the 5:2 wagon to drop down and up my weights.

Skinny - I use grass fed gelatin which has collagen which is good for joints. Worth a shot?

BigChocFrenzy · 04/12/2019 13:13

Well done yesterday, Maz
especially on the fudge resistance

Well done too on your FD, aber
I find when I'm very busy that an FD gives me a bit more time, because of the time saved in meal prep / hunting

Good luck today, skinny
With 5:2, FDs are never "failed" merely postponed

That's so unfair if doctors won't help until you've lost weight
I hope at least that they review pain management and other treatment
It's worrying if patients are not taken seriously because of their weight

Well done on your TKW NSV, moonlight
Also martial arts are usually very HIIT, hence brilliant for fitness and also calorie burning

Is your baking on an FD, glasgow ?
If so, that's tough, but another of our fav mantras is:
"you can have it tomorrow"

OP posts:
BigChocFrenzy · 04/12/2019 13:17

HIIT would also help you, glasgow
Maybe swap out a long cardio session, if you do one, for extra HIIT
If your training is already weights and HIIT, then check if you can cut back on alcohol and / or added sugar, other treat carbs

OP posts:
Calledyoulastnightfromglasgow · 04/12/2019 13:34

Yep that’s a good mantra! I prefer baking on a FD as otherwise I stuff myself!

I do HItT and weights a few days a week. I might up it. Think I do have too many carbs though. It’s prob both.

What is your body fat percentage? I want to get less than 25. It looks like weight is an irrelevance!

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