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Fasting / 5:2 diet

Talk about intermittent fasting and 5:2, including what’s worked for others. Mumsnet hasn't checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. You may wish to speak to a medical professional before starting any diet.

5:2 Thread number 88: Anyone trying to pull you down is beneath you - come join our friendly & knowledgeable group to BOOST you up to goal

979 replies

BigChocFrenzy · 22/11/2019 00:06

Welcome to the continuing thread for those following 5:2 or other forms of IF (Intermittent Fasting) such as 4:3, ADF, or daily 16:8 Smile

The 5:2 diet was introduced by Michael Mosely on BBC Horizon on August 2012:

Basically it is 2 very low cal days ("fasts") per week - which need not be consecutive - and eat "normally" to maintain on the other 5 days.

For those who have dieted or maybe overeaten for years, eating "normally"
means roughly the number of calories your body needs to maintain - NOT reduce - its weight (see TDEE calculator below).

IMPORTANT
If you have had past diagnosed Eating Disorders or serious MH problems you should NOT do 5:2 or any other kind of fasting

ACRONYMS

16:8 is a different type of fasting, which can be combined with 5:2.
Daily zero-cal fast for 16 hours and eat within an 8 hour window. To lose weight, this needs a weekly calorie deficit as well

4:3 = fast on 3 non-consecutive days per week

ADF (Alternate-Day Fasting) = fast every other day

b2b (optional) back-to-back / consecutive fast days, each with an increased allowance of 650 calories instead of 500

BMI (Body Mass Index) healthy range is 18.5 - 24.9 for Caucasians. Upper limit may be 22 for some of Asian origin.

FD = single Fast Day: aim for 500 calories (600 for men or 25% TDEE whichever is higher) or 1000 cals for BF
No alcohol or junk on FDs
Even if you exercise strenuously, do NOT increase FD cals to allow for exercise

MFP = My Fitness Pal, a useful App or website to track food & drink calories

miniFD = MiniFD, 850- 1000 calories, no alcohol or junk

NFD = Non-Fast Day, averages around TDEE

NSV / LSV = Non Scale Victory / LifeStyle (change) Victory, e.g. compliment, smaller waist, clothes size

SV = Scale Victory

TDEE = Total Daily Energy Expenditure, the average number of calories you burn in a day, is calculated (see calculators below) from your current weight, height, age, activity level.
Aim to average about this for NFDs.

WOE / WOL = Way Of Eating / Way Of Life. We say this instead of "diet", to emphasise that we must make a permanent change in how we eat, to mainitain our new healthy weight longterm.

HOW TO START

. Take initial measurements: weight, waist, hips
. Use TDEE calculator below if you need a rough guide to how much to eat on NFDs
. Choose any 2 days for FDs, non-consecutive is easier.
. Before each FD: plan, shop & calorie count ALL food & drink for the day

Useful Resources & Calculators

Calorie Counter: mfp
Rough Calories for NFD: Mosely TDEE Calc (exercisers: set activity level to one below what you think)
BMI: Calc
Ideal Weight & Body Frame Size: Calc Wt Frame
Body Fat: BFat Calc
Choose / Visualise Goal Weight:
3D BMI body types ripped to normal
Bod Vis Measurements & 3D rotate]]

Safe Alcohol Calc: Calc Units Cals

FD Recipes:
Mosely LowCarb , low carb Diet Doc
BBC Good Food 52 , BBC Good Food 500 cal meals ,
Good2Know , Foodie Under 200 Cals
Vegetarian ,

FD Ready Meals, Fast Food

Any Day:
Meal Planner

FAQs / Tips

  • WATER: Start each day with a glass of water; and drink plenty during the day.
  • HOT DRINKS: No limits on tea or coffee, but on FDs count any milk / sugar calories.
  • SLEEP: Try to get enough sleep, or it may slow weight loss.
  • EXERCISE: is healthy & can help weight loss - BUT only if you do NOT eat back less than you burn. Fasted training can burn more fat.
HIIT and resistance training both work well with 5:2/IF.
  • FDs: If possible, choose days when you are busy, but not preparing meals for others.
Concentrate on protein & veg; avoid sugar or fruit juice. e.g. Stir-fries, soups & stews. Ready meals are OK.
  • BFers: start with 1000-cal FDs, optionally reduce to 700 cals gradually.
You can return to 1000 if growth spurts or sleep-deprivation require more fuel.
  • NFDs: No rules, but to improve health, try to cut down on added sugar & junk food, keep alcohol within safe limits. A few treats per week are fine.
  • Do NOT fast: if you've ever had EDs, or if pregnant, under 21, over-stressed, fever, stomach bug, even a bad cold.
  • CHECK with your Doctor: if you have diabetes, any other endocrine condition, any serious past or present medical condition, or if taking ANY prescribed medication (fasting may affect absorption rate)

Scientific Evidence for Fasting & Health

BBC article on the original Horizon program

Telegraph comments on 5:2 and gives a brief overview by Dr Mosley, useful for newbies.

This InterviewPart1 and InterviewPart2 with leading ADF researcher Dr Varady explains why fasting helps you to lose weight AND improves some health markers.

Fasting boosts "autophagy" = recycling of old cells
Yoshinori Ohsumi won the 2016 Nobel prize for Medicine for research into autophagy
NOBEL Lecture “Autophagy – An Intracellular Recycling System”

Prof. R Taylor (Newcastle Uni) won the 2013 Diabetes UK Banting Prize for his Twin Cycle Hypothesis re the cause of type 2 diabetes: Twin Cycle Hypothesis T2
and showed a fasting diet could reverse T2

Dr Michelle Harvie (funded by cancer charities) showed possible benefits of intermittent fasting compared to standard daily calorie reduction in her trials (consecutive FDs) with women at high risk of breast cancer: ComparingDiets , EarlierResearch52

Dr Johnson showed intermittent fasting helped Asthma

HORMESIS & Why Intermittent Fasting Works: Mattson , BlackSwan and Hormesis

Molecular Mechanisms and Clinical Applications: J CellMetabolism
Recent research into the health benefits of fasting: e.g. by world-respected neuroscientist Dr MarkMattson (Mosely referred to his research) showed:

. Improved glucose regulation
. Loss of abdominal fat with maintenance of muscle mass
. Reduced blood pressure and heart rate
. Improved learning and memory and motor function
. Protection of neurons in the brain against dysfunction and degeneration in animal models of Alzheimer’s disease, Parkinson’s disease, stroke and Huntington’s disease.

Brain metabolism in health, aging, andneurodegeneration :
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

He compared 5:2 to ordinary daily diets on overweight women with family history of breast cancer.
Fasting group lost more belly fat, retained more muscle & had slightly better blood sugar regulation.

More of his research is in HealthyAging , Health , AvoidParkinsonsDisease

His article in J Aging Mech Disease 2015 explains the health benefits of intermittent fasting in great scientific detail.

Why intermittent fasting and stopping snacking can lower your risk of serious diseases:
Meal frequency and timing in health and disease

Fasting can help maintain brain health during aging:
emboj.embopress.org/content/36/11/1474
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

This interview with leading researchers into fasting in combination with standard cancer treatment: ScientificDiscussion MoselyMattsonLongo and a LongoInterview

NY Times Fasting Overview

Research by other US and European scientists in this DailyTelegraph Article about the medicinal uses of fasting, for many serious conditions & diseases.

Recent trials with Type 2 diabetics and those at risk of having it used a form of daily fasting - skipping supper.
Their conclusions: eating 1-2 meals per day is better than several small meals for losing weight and controlling insulin levels, see Type2Paper

OP posts:
Thread gallery
5
80skid · 23/01/2020 14:25

That sounds like a good app ohyesiam Grin
When I lost weight on this before, I weighed every Friday and used to get quite a buzz from the falling numbers. Hopefully that will come again!
Missed my swim - recently separated friend has her 10th wedding anniversary today so a coffee and a chat took precedence. I know I'm losing weight and I know this is a healthy way of eating, so I have to accept I'm in this for the long haul!!! Happy Thursday everyone Grin

itsmeagainagain · 23/01/2020 15:10

Hello all I’m a previous poster and long time lurker and I’ve decided to join again just for this thread 😊. I’ve been dabbling with 5:2 for over a year and I know it works but when I fall off the wagon I fall in style and basically just stay under it! So..... I’m early 40’s, weight this morning 11 stone 9. Goal weight is late 9’s. I love reading your stories and successes so am hoping to join in with mine 😊

badger82 · 23/01/2020 16:21

Mmm @whattodowith maybe a banana 🍌 just before you leave for exercise? If you're like me and think "oh I'll just have something small so I have energy" but have more than 30 mins still being near to fridge, then disastrous sabotage is most likely

I've got 3 hours until dinner time 🤸‍♀️😊 feeling positive right now but am about to enter feeding time for my kids. The challenge is ON

Whattodowithaminute · 23/01/2020 16:24

@badger82 I’ve had a lucky escape-PT session cancelled and DH doesn’t want dinner-can now have omelette in half an hour and a bath once the kids are in bed. Have already done a 1km swim so all is well. Feeling good so far how is everyone else doing?

moonlight1705 · 23/01/2020 16:29

Just had my spoonful of marmite as I was getting a headache which has really helped. I've only had 110 calories today with a mug of soup so am looking forward to dinner a lot.

Well done what and badger - sounds like you are both doing so well today.

Whattodowithaminute · 23/01/2020 17:15

Kitchen closed on 440-felt easy today and feeling positive for a loss tomorrow. Hope everyone else doing ok.

Gruntysaurus · 23/01/2020 17:46

Kitchen closed at 422 for me.

EssentialHummus · 23/01/2020 17:59

Welcome itsme!

Well done grunty, what, badger, moon, nearly there! Kitchen closed here too - possibly a decaff coffee around 7pm, then brushing teeth and off to have an early night.

bigchoc are you retired yet??

BigChocFrenzy · 23/01/2020 18:45

Well done on your FD yesterday, Sydney
¼ lb is really sts, as your weight naturally varies a little from day to day and during the day

A plateau is defined as 3+ weeks sts, because the occasional week of sts is very usual

Moon It is quite usual to plateau after losing quite a bit of weight
Particularly at a "set point", which is a weight you stayed at for a long time in the past
To break a plateau takes patience and presistence, just staying focused
MrD can tell you about her plateaus - she has come through them very well

4:3 can also be useful, as a short sharp shock of 2 weeks or so to plateau-bust

Well done on your Thursday FD, Hummus, what,grunty

Not quite, Hummus
I've been chopping up things to put on cocktail sticks for tomorrow to go with the salad
All things I'm happy to eat over the WE ! Grin
The pizza party is lunchtime, so I'll report back in the afternoon, as a free woman 🤛🏼

That coaching sounds enjoyable badger
and is a good way to keep you occupied on an FD

Welcome back, itsme and good luck
I'm looking forward to hearing your stories too

It's good to hear you are settled in the fasting swing, 80s
Never beat yourself up about weight - it doesn't burn enough calories ! Grin

"the past is a foreign country; they do things differently there"
Move on, be proud of what you are doing now
Weight that took years to gain will likely take several months to lose, but that's OK:
"It's a WOL, not a race"

OP posts:
moonlight1705 · 23/01/2020 18:57

Ending the day on 553 today which am pleased about. We'll done all you Thursday fasters!

Good to know about the plateau effect BigChoc I will perhaps try a b2b plus another FD to see if it has an effect. I've stayed within 1lb now since Christmas so need to kick start again.

Hope you enjoy your freedom party Smile

BigChocFrenzy · 23/01/2020 19:09

Well done, moon
Off now to practice my (short) speech in my best German

OP posts:
Whattodowithaminute · 23/01/2020 20:33

Best of luck for tomorrow bcf enjoy celebrations and the start of your retirement!!

BigChocFrenzy · 23/01/2020 21:58

Thanks, what
I'm having an early night (1 hr ahead of GB) so night all and I'll report tomorrow afternoon

OP posts:
inthethickofit19 · 23/01/2020 22:05

FD for me tomorrow.. will check in tomorrow morn. Got a really sore throat though so will drink plenty of honey in water

MazDazzle · 23/01/2020 22:09

Good luck with the speech BC!

SydneyCarton · 23/01/2020 22:18

Thanks BigChoc, that’s helpful about a plateau being three weeks at the same weight. Had a good NFD and only 5 cals over TDEE, including homemade pizza which I haven’t done in literally years as small children got in the way. But I now have enough of them that they can entertain each other while I make the dough and the sauce 🤣. It was delicious, so much nicer than the usual supermarket ones, I must remember to do it more often.

Have a great day tomorrow!

inthethickofit19 · 23/01/2020 23:00

Enjoy your las day tomorrow BCF!

Ohyesiam · 23/01/2020 23:02

inthethickofit19
Sorry your throat is sore. I find gargling with salt water Is there best thing I know for it.

Whattodowithaminute · 24/01/2020 07:16

Hope you’re feeling better this morning inthethick
Homemade pizza sounds yum sydney reminds me to make some with DS as I think they would really enjoy that.
Stay positive and persevere moonlight you will get there.
Just over a lb off for me this morning.

badger82 · 24/01/2020 08:43

Sts this week but need to focus on zero snacking and good NFDs to make sure I don't eat back the deficit

DH helped me as I went to get M&M spread on bread last night (which would have ruined my FD) but he made me a herbal tea instead Smile

OohMrDarcy · 24/01/2020 09:38

Morning all

Checking in for my Friday FD and to say a massive congratulations on your last working day today BigChoc! Enjoy the fuss and have a lovely day

SydneyCarton · 24/01/2020 10:19

@Whattodowithaminute I can't remember how old your DS is, but it would be a great thing to do with children. I used Delia Smith's pizza dough recipe and this no cook pizza sauce. I might make some more today and freeze it Smile

noseovertail · 24/01/2020 10:32

Been super busy these last few days (I leave my current post next friday) and not managed to log on since about tues - but just quickly wanted to say Happy Last Day bcf you lucky, lucky thing Grin enjoy the celebrations!

Also, FD today so I'm your friday fasting buddy mrd

aberjenagain · 24/01/2020 11:00

Happy retirement day bcf!

Ohyesiam · 24/01/2020 11:53

On a Friday fast here. Just done a workout class and feeling good!
I could break my 16:8 now, but I know that it’s always tougher once I’ve started ( food and I have an all-or -nothing relationship!).
Have found a couple of nice sounding recipes I like, roast cauliflower soup for lunch and aubergine boats for dinner. I’ll report back.
BCF have a great day

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