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Fasting / 5:2 diet

Talk about intermittent fasting and 5:2, including what’s worked for others. Mumsnet hasn't checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. You may wish to speak to a medical professional before starting any diet.

5:2 Thread number 88: Anyone trying to pull you down is beneath you - come join our friendly & knowledgeable group to BOOST you up to goal

979 replies

BigChocFrenzy · 22/11/2019 00:06

Welcome to the continuing thread for those following 5:2 or other forms of IF (Intermittent Fasting) such as 4:3, ADF, or daily 16:8 Smile

The 5:2 diet was introduced by Michael Mosely on BBC Horizon on August 2012:

Basically it is 2 very low cal days ("fasts") per week - which need not be consecutive - and eat "normally" to maintain on the other 5 days.

For those who have dieted or maybe overeaten for years, eating "normally"
means roughly the number of calories your body needs to maintain - NOT reduce - its weight (see TDEE calculator below).

IMPORTANT
If you have had past diagnosed Eating Disorders or serious MH problems you should NOT do 5:2 or any other kind of fasting

ACRONYMS

16:8 is a different type of fasting, which can be combined with 5:2.
Daily zero-cal fast for 16 hours and eat within an 8 hour window. To lose weight, this needs a weekly calorie deficit as well

4:3 = fast on 3 non-consecutive days per week

ADF (Alternate-Day Fasting) = fast every other day

b2b (optional) back-to-back / consecutive fast days, each with an increased allowance of 650 calories instead of 500

BMI (Body Mass Index) healthy range is 18.5 - 24.9 for Caucasians. Upper limit may be 22 for some of Asian origin.

FD = single Fast Day: aim for 500 calories (600 for men or 25% TDEE whichever is higher) or 1000 cals for BF
No alcohol or junk on FDs
Even if you exercise strenuously, do NOT increase FD cals to allow for exercise

MFP = My Fitness Pal, a useful App or website to track food & drink calories

miniFD = MiniFD, 850- 1000 calories, no alcohol or junk

NFD = Non-Fast Day, averages around TDEE

NSV / LSV = Non Scale Victory / LifeStyle (change) Victory, e.g. compliment, smaller waist, clothes size

SV = Scale Victory

TDEE = Total Daily Energy Expenditure, the average number of calories you burn in a day, is calculated (see calculators below) from your current weight, height, age, activity level.
Aim to average about this for NFDs.

WOE / WOL = Way Of Eating / Way Of Life. We say this instead of "diet", to emphasise that we must make a permanent change in how we eat, to mainitain our new healthy weight longterm.

HOW TO START

. Take initial measurements: weight, waist, hips
. Use TDEE calculator below if you need a rough guide to how much to eat on NFDs
. Choose any 2 days for FDs, non-consecutive is easier.
. Before each FD: plan, shop & calorie count ALL food & drink for the day

Useful Resources & Calculators

Calorie Counter: mfp
Rough Calories for NFD: Mosely TDEE Calc (exercisers: set activity level to one below what you think)
BMI: Calc
Ideal Weight & Body Frame Size: Calc Wt Frame
Body Fat: BFat Calc
Choose / Visualise Goal Weight:
3D BMI body types ripped to normal
Bod Vis Measurements & 3D rotate]]

Safe Alcohol Calc: Calc Units Cals

FD Recipes:
Mosely LowCarb , low carb Diet Doc
BBC Good Food 52 , BBC Good Food 500 cal meals ,
Good2Know , Foodie Under 200 Cals
Vegetarian ,

FD Ready Meals, Fast Food

Any Day:
Meal Planner

FAQs / Tips

  • WATER: Start each day with a glass of water; and drink plenty during the day.
  • HOT DRINKS: No limits on tea or coffee, but on FDs count any milk / sugar calories.
  • SLEEP: Try to get enough sleep, or it may slow weight loss.
  • EXERCISE: is healthy & can help weight loss - BUT only if you do NOT eat back less than you burn. Fasted training can burn more fat.
HIIT and resistance training both work well with 5:2/IF.
  • FDs: If possible, choose days when you are busy, but not preparing meals for others.
Concentrate on protein & veg; avoid sugar or fruit juice. e.g. Stir-fries, soups & stews. Ready meals are OK.
  • BFers: start with 1000-cal FDs, optionally reduce to 700 cals gradually.
You can return to 1000 if growth spurts or sleep-deprivation require more fuel.
  • NFDs: No rules, but to improve health, try to cut down on added sugar & junk food, keep alcohol within safe limits. A few treats per week are fine.
  • Do NOT fast: if you've ever had EDs, or if pregnant, under 21, over-stressed, fever, stomach bug, even a bad cold.
  • CHECK with your Doctor: if you have diabetes, any other endocrine condition, any serious past or present medical condition, or if taking ANY prescribed medication (fasting may affect absorption rate)

Scientific Evidence for Fasting & Health

BBC article on the original Horizon program

Telegraph comments on 5:2 and gives a brief overview by Dr Mosley, useful for newbies.

This InterviewPart1 and InterviewPart2 with leading ADF researcher Dr Varady explains why fasting helps you to lose weight AND improves some health markers.

Fasting boosts "autophagy" = recycling of old cells
Yoshinori Ohsumi won the 2016 Nobel prize for Medicine for research into autophagy
NOBEL Lecture “Autophagy – An Intracellular Recycling System”

Prof. R Taylor (Newcastle Uni) won the 2013 Diabetes UK Banting Prize for his Twin Cycle Hypothesis re the cause of type 2 diabetes: Twin Cycle Hypothesis T2
and showed a fasting diet could reverse T2

Dr Michelle Harvie (funded by cancer charities) showed possible benefits of intermittent fasting compared to standard daily calorie reduction in her trials (consecutive FDs) with women at high risk of breast cancer: ComparingDiets , EarlierResearch52

Dr Johnson showed intermittent fasting helped Asthma

HORMESIS & Why Intermittent Fasting Works: Mattson , BlackSwan and Hormesis

Molecular Mechanisms and Clinical Applications: J CellMetabolism
Recent research into the health benefits of fasting: e.g. by world-respected neuroscientist Dr MarkMattson (Mosely referred to his research) showed:

. Improved glucose regulation
. Loss of abdominal fat with maintenance of muscle mass
. Reduced blood pressure and heart rate
. Improved learning and memory and motor function
. Protection of neurons in the brain against dysfunction and degeneration in animal models of Alzheimer’s disease, Parkinson’s disease, stroke and Huntington’s disease.

Brain metabolism in health, aging, andneurodegeneration :
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

He compared 5:2 to ordinary daily diets on overweight women with family history of breast cancer.
Fasting group lost more belly fat, retained more muscle & had slightly better blood sugar regulation.

More of his research is in HealthyAging , Health , AvoidParkinsonsDisease

His article in J Aging Mech Disease 2015 explains the health benefits of intermittent fasting in great scientific detail.

Why intermittent fasting and stopping snacking can lower your risk of serious diseases:
Meal frequency and timing in health and disease

Fasting can help maintain brain health during aging:
emboj.embopress.org/content/36/11/1474
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

This interview with leading researchers into fasting in combination with standard cancer treatment: ScientificDiscussion MoselyMattsonLongo and a LongoInterview

NY Times Fasting Overview

Research by other US and European scientists in this DailyTelegraph Article about the medicinal uses of fasting, for many serious conditions & diseases.

Recent trials with Type 2 diabetics and those at risk of having it used a form of daily fasting - skipping supper.
Their conclusions: eating 1-2 meals per day is better than several small meals for losing weight and controlling insulin levels, see Type2Paper

OP posts:
Thread gallery
5
aberjenagain · 20/01/2020 13:22

I’m fasting today too - trying out mon/tues this week. Good luck mrd, emcla, what, and sydney.

Staying the same through everything that’s been going on is a fab achievement lania

OohMrDarcy · 20/01/2020 16:00

Kitchen closed on 527 here. Got a jug of water next to me and I'll have a cuppa once I settle down for the evening. A good FD.

How is everyone else doing?

harriethoyle · 20/01/2020 16:41

Hi @emcla @Whattodowithaminute @oohmrd I'm also with you. Had a long work meeting which included lunch but just had 3/4 of an egg and cress sandwich and have calorie counted it akin to pret equivalent. I've been away all weekend so not sure what I have in but am pretty sure I have some fish in the freezer so will do something like that. Aiming for 600 today and a mini tomorrow...

harriethoyle · 20/01/2020 16:41

@aberjenagain and @SydneyCarton I missed you both in my solidarity fist bump!

Parsley65 · 20/01/2020 16:50

Everyone sounds very positive and cheery!
I have been fasting today and am now back on target after the festive blip Blush
I need to lose about another 20 pounds - hopefully by the summer.
Good luck all and keep up the good work.

SydneyCarton · 20/01/2020 17:29

Cheers harriet! One good thing about working in the public sector is that there’s never any money for lunch in meetings, unless we’re trying to win over some stakeholders, so there’s hardly ever any temptation Grin. Just tea and water so far and a prawn stir fry planned for later which is about 460 cals.

Well done on the completed FD MrD

aberjenagain · 20/01/2020 18:02

Well done mrd
All done on about 630 here.
Well done surviving lunch harriet
I forgot we had a team lunch meeting - it was byo but meant I had to sit there with my tummy rumbling surrounded by yummy food smells.
Well done for today parsley

Whattodowithaminute · 20/01/2020 18:34

Well done mrD, aber, Sydney, parsley, harriet sounds like a great day all round. I haven’t eaten yet-was going to have an omelette at lunch but didn’t need it so holding out for chicken noodle soup at 8ish-should be around 500 Cal’s for the day.

emcla · 20/01/2020 20:04

I’m weighing in tomorrow to see where I’m at. Might as well face the music 🎧

takingcontrol · 20/01/2020 20:05

Wow BCF retirement is not far! Enjoy your last week!

BigChocFrenzy · 20/01/2020 20:34

Well done, What, MrD, aber, Sydney, parsley, harriet

That should bring your energy back up to normal, MrD now you have caught up on your sleep

You're back in the fasting swing, Parsley Smile

Sydney I've been in private sector jobs since uni and it's been 20 years since anyone even had free biscuits or coffee in work meetings - we'd have to bring our own Grin
Maybe R&D is meaner than other sectors

Good luck tomorrow, emcla and anyone else weighing

Are you fasting tomorrow, taking ?

The computer greeted me at work by saying that I have some flexi-hours to use up, so I'll take tomorrow off 😁

OP posts:
harriethoyle · 20/01/2020 20:48

Kitchen closed on 622. Tiny bit higher than I'd planned but I can cope. A mini tomorrow I think Grin

BigChocFrenzy · 20/01/2020 22:32

Well done, Harriet That's fine

OP posts:
SydneyCarton · 20/01/2020 22:44

All done on about 520. Probably actually a little higher as I definitely had more than half the stir fry, but I’m fine with that. Well done to all the other fasters; here’s to breakfast!

80skid · 20/01/2020 23:10

Hi, I don't know if this may be slightly off topic, but someone was telling me about the use of positive affirmations the other day. Just some positive mantras to repeat to yourself a few times a day, must be worded in a positive way (ie message and wording, so no "nots" or "no's". Apparently not only does it assist your resolve, but the brain doesn't like things which aren't, ahem, true, so saying you weigh x amount or are slim/can do things you actually can't do can spur you on to make it true. Also helps with positive body image. Well something like that anyway Grin
So here's what I've come up with for me:

I make healthy choices to nourish my body well
My body is beautiful, fit, healthy and slim
I did have another (I do not snack in between meals) but in writing it down, realised it has a "not" so maybe back to the drawing board with that Blush

Does anyone do this? Do you have some snazzy mantras to share?
Thanks

BigChocFrenzy · 20/01/2020 23:12

Well done, sydney

OP posts:
harriethoyle · 21/01/2020 08:05

Another lb off this morning... but am so fricking hungry today! I may struggle with a mini but will do my best. I have to drive at 8pm so I'll have a dry day at least...

emcla · 21/01/2020 08:22

Well done Harriet. I’m down a few pounds too. Still above target but going in the right direction. I am tired today. Slept badly so need to watch the food intake as it tends to go up with tiredness for me

moonlight1705 · 21/01/2020 08:42

Morning all, I'm back on the FD today although its freezing and frosty so I think plenty of tea will be happening.

I think I've caught up with everyone but well done everyone who FD yesterday and hope you are having a nice day off BigChoc with that flexitime.

emcla · 21/01/2020 11:26

Good luck moonlight and all other Tuesday fasters.

Hope you are enjoying your day off bigchoc.

BigChocFrenzy · 21/01/2020 12:40

Well done on your SV, Harriet
You did an FD yesterday, so as you are hungry today, I recommend a healthy NFD:
no alcohol, no junk, no fizzy crap - just reasonably nutritious food and lots of water.

Good luck today, moon and any other Tuesday fasters

Lovely and sunny here again - sympathy to Moon in the frost

I did a spinal gym class this morning and I'll have a long Rhine walk; hopefully also the hairdresser can fit me in for a quick trim
I have a fascia (hard black ball) gym session this evening and then maybe yoga

OP posts:
aberjenagain · 21/01/2020 12:52

Well done Harriet and emcla

Good luck moonlight - I'm fasting with you today too.

Finding it a bit hard going due to the cold weather (but at least it is sunny! and poss coming down with my DD's cold, but am making the most of the extra cals for a b2b!

80skid I had read somthing in a similar vein. Re the no snacking, the thing I read was to make things statements rather than intentions - ie 'I don't snack' vs 'I am trying not to snack', which I thinks sort of gets roun the negative. Or the 'I make healthy choices' could encompass the no snacking.

noseovertail · 21/01/2020 12:53

afternoon everyone, never got around to logging back on yesterday so well done all the monday fasters Grin

FD today and I'm so hungry, I will battle through but i'm noticing more and more that my hormones are having much more of an effect on fasting, 2 weeks out of the month are a piece of cake, but 2 weeks are a struggle and the week before period arrives is the worst!!! I turn 46 soon so thinking its peri-menopause having an impact - any tips on how to curb the need to eat loads of carbs 2 weeks out of 4 anyone Shock

enjoy all your classes bcf how do you find the time to fit them all in!!

aberjenagain · 21/01/2020 12:56

I also have a Marie Kondo-esque one. When I am tempted by the ridiculously glut of treats at work I ask myself 'will it bring you joy?' ie. am I going to really savour and enjoy whatever it is, or is it just a crappy biscuit and I'll feel a bit rubbish afterwards and like I wasted the calories Grin

badger82 · 21/01/2020 13:42

On the fast wagon today - so far so good, just had leftover chicken for lunch with some whole meal bread - got tuna & borlotti bean salad for dinner after PT. feeling positive, love the positive self talk ideas - really critical for mental attitude