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Fasting / 5:2 diet

Talk about intermittent fasting and 5:2, including what’s worked for others. Mumsnet hasn't checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. You may wish to speak to a medical professional before starting any diet.

5:2 Thread number 88: Anyone trying to pull you down is beneath you - come join our friendly & knowledgeable group to BOOST you up to goal

979 replies

BigChocFrenzy · 22/11/2019 00:06

Welcome to the continuing thread for those following 5:2 or other forms of IF (Intermittent Fasting) such as 4:3, ADF, or daily 16:8 Smile

The 5:2 diet was introduced by Michael Mosely on BBC Horizon on August 2012:

Basically it is 2 very low cal days ("fasts") per week - which need not be consecutive - and eat "normally" to maintain on the other 5 days.

For those who have dieted or maybe overeaten for years, eating "normally"
means roughly the number of calories your body needs to maintain - NOT reduce - its weight (see TDEE calculator below).

IMPORTANT
If you have had past diagnosed Eating Disorders or serious MH problems you should NOT do 5:2 or any other kind of fasting

ACRONYMS

16:8 is a different type of fasting, which can be combined with 5:2.
Daily zero-cal fast for 16 hours and eat within an 8 hour window. To lose weight, this needs a weekly calorie deficit as well

4:3 = fast on 3 non-consecutive days per week

ADF (Alternate-Day Fasting) = fast every other day

b2b (optional) back-to-back / consecutive fast days, each with an increased allowance of 650 calories instead of 500

BMI (Body Mass Index) healthy range is 18.5 - 24.9 for Caucasians. Upper limit may be 22 for some of Asian origin.

FD = single Fast Day: aim for 500 calories (600 for men or 25% TDEE whichever is higher) or 1000 cals for BF
No alcohol or junk on FDs
Even if you exercise strenuously, do NOT increase FD cals to allow for exercise

MFP = My Fitness Pal, a useful App or website to track food & drink calories

miniFD = MiniFD, 850- 1000 calories, no alcohol or junk

NFD = Non-Fast Day, averages around TDEE

NSV / LSV = Non Scale Victory / LifeStyle (change) Victory, e.g. compliment, smaller waist, clothes size

SV = Scale Victory

TDEE = Total Daily Energy Expenditure, the average number of calories you burn in a day, is calculated (see calculators below) from your current weight, height, age, activity level.
Aim to average about this for NFDs.

WOE / WOL = Way Of Eating / Way Of Life. We say this instead of "diet", to emphasise that we must make a permanent change in how we eat, to mainitain our new healthy weight longterm.

HOW TO START

. Take initial measurements: weight, waist, hips
. Use TDEE calculator below if you need a rough guide to how much to eat on NFDs
. Choose any 2 days for FDs, non-consecutive is easier.
. Before each FD: plan, shop & calorie count ALL food & drink for the day

Useful Resources & Calculators

Calorie Counter: mfp
Rough Calories for NFD: Mosely TDEE Calc (exercisers: set activity level to one below what you think)
BMI: Calc
Ideal Weight & Body Frame Size: Calc Wt Frame
Body Fat: BFat Calc
Choose / Visualise Goal Weight:
3D BMI body types ripped to normal
Bod Vis Measurements & 3D rotate]]

Safe Alcohol Calc: Calc Units Cals

FD Recipes:
Mosely LowCarb , low carb Diet Doc
BBC Good Food 52 , BBC Good Food 500 cal meals ,
Good2Know , Foodie Under 200 Cals
Vegetarian ,

FD Ready Meals, Fast Food

Any Day:
Meal Planner

FAQs / Tips

  • WATER: Start each day with a glass of water; and drink plenty during the day.
  • HOT DRINKS: No limits on tea or coffee, but on FDs count any milk / sugar calories.
  • SLEEP: Try to get enough sleep, or it may slow weight loss.
  • EXERCISE: is healthy & can help weight loss - BUT only if you do NOT eat back less than you burn. Fasted training can burn more fat.
HIIT and resistance training both work well with 5:2/IF.
  • FDs: If possible, choose days when you are busy, but not preparing meals for others.
Concentrate on protein & veg; avoid sugar or fruit juice. e.g. Stir-fries, soups & stews. Ready meals are OK.
  • BFers: start with 1000-cal FDs, optionally reduce to 700 cals gradually.
You can return to 1000 if growth spurts or sleep-deprivation require more fuel.
  • NFDs: No rules, but to improve health, try to cut down on added sugar & junk food, keep alcohol within safe limits. A few treats per week are fine.
  • Do NOT fast: if you've ever had EDs, or if pregnant, under 21, over-stressed, fever, stomach bug, even a bad cold.
  • CHECK with your Doctor: if you have diabetes, any other endocrine condition, any serious past or present medical condition, or if taking ANY prescribed medication (fasting may affect absorption rate)

Scientific Evidence for Fasting & Health

BBC article on the original Horizon program

Telegraph comments on 5:2 and gives a brief overview by Dr Mosley, useful for newbies.

This InterviewPart1 and InterviewPart2 with leading ADF researcher Dr Varady explains why fasting helps you to lose weight AND improves some health markers.

Fasting boosts "autophagy" = recycling of old cells
Yoshinori Ohsumi won the 2016 Nobel prize for Medicine for research into autophagy
NOBEL Lecture “Autophagy – An Intracellular Recycling System”

Prof. R Taylor (Newcastle Uni) won the 2013 Diabetes UK Banting Prize for his Twin Cycle Hypothesis re the cause of type 2 diabetes: Twin Cycle Hypothesis T2
and showed a fasting diet could reverse T2

Dr Michelle Harvie (funded by cancer charities) showed possible benefits of intermittent fasting compared to standard daily calorie reduction in her trials (consecutive FDs) with women at high risk of breast cancer: ComparingDiets , EarlierResearch52

Dr Johnson showed intermittent fasting helped Asthma

HORMESIS & Why Intermittent Fasting Works: Mattson , BlackSwan and Hormesis

Molecular Mechanisms and Clinical Applications: J CellMetabolism
Recent research into the health benefits of fasting: e.g. by world-respected neuroscientist Dr MarkMattson (Mosely referred to his research) showed:

. Improved glucose regulation
. Loss of abdominal fat with maintenance of muscle mass
. Reduced blood pressure and heart rate
. Improved learning and memory and motor function
. Protection of neurons in the brain against dysfunction and degeneration in animal models of Alzheimer’s disease, Parkinson’s disease, stroke and Huntington’s disease.

Brain metabolism in health, aging, andneurodegeneration :
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

He compared 5:2 to ordinary daily diets on overweight women with family history of breast cancer.
Fasting group lost more belly fat, retained more muscle & had slightly better blood sugar regulation.

More of his research is in HealthyAging , Health , AvoidParkinsonsDisease

His article in J Aging Mech Disease 2015 explains the health benefits of intermittent fasting in great scientific detail.

Why intermittent fasting and stopping snacking can lower your risk of serious diseases:
Meal frequency and timing in health and disease

Fasting can help maintain brain health during aging:
emboj.embopress.org/content/36/11/1474
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

This interview with leading researchers into fasting in combination with standard cancer treatment: ScientificDiscussion MoselyMattsonLongo and a LongoInterview

NY Times Fasting Overview

Research by other US and European scientists in this DailyTelegraph Article about the medicinal uses of fasting, for many serious conditions & diseases.

Recent trials with Type 2 diabetics and those at risk of having it used a form of daily fasting - skipping supper.
Their conclusions: eating 1-2 meals per day is better than several small meals for losing weight and controlling insulin levels, see Type2Paper

OP posts:
Thread gallery
5
BigChocFrenzy · 18/01/2020 08:29

Congratulations on your SV, nose
Sounds a good plan

sts is ok, moon you didn't gain after a tough week
It's quite usual not to lose every single week, so look at the trend over the weeks
Stay patient & focused; don't worry about it, you'll resume losing

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inthethickofit19 · 18/01/2020 19:13

At long last I've attempted a FD today.. just need to stay strong. I feel sick and a little bit headachey. Have been massively overeating since Christmas 😳

inthethickofit19 · 18/01/2020 19:20

I weighed in today at 10st 4.4lbs. Just before christmas I had got under the 10 mark so hope I can reach that fairly quickly. Have a family wedding Coming up and I would like to be well on my way to my target.

Initial target is 9.5 stone. Then 9 stone, then 8.5. My happy weight is somewhere between 8-8.5 although I haven't been there for 9 years 😱😱😱 due to illness/ medication and then two dc. I'm only 5ft 3 so my tdee is fairly low.

BigChocFrenzy · 19/01/2020 08:46

Morning all 🙂
I'm off to spin class shortly and I'll lift some weights too
I'm fasting today
Anyone else ? Hummus ?

That's the important next step, returning to the 5:2 WOL after the vacation, inthethick
Good luck in reaching your goal
You're nearly within healthy BMI, only about 4 lb to a really encouraging milestone, then you can work towards your Happy Weight Range

How did you get on with your FD yesterday ?

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EssentialHummus · 19/01/2020 09:21

Good luck today bigchoc. No FD for me today as I’m about a kg under goal and don’t feel it’s necessary, but will have a smaller eating window to keep snacking at bay.

BigChocFrenzy · 19/01/2020 10:41

That's excellent, Hummus Smile

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Whattodowithaminute · 19/01/2020 11:09

Well done hummus hope today goes ok bigchoc
I’m Monday/Thursday FD this week and will try for a couple of lower cal days or a mini FD as was out last night with DH and was well over TDEE. Out again on Friday night with friends too...
Hope everyone else doing ok.

inthethickofit19 · 19/01/2020 13:02

Ok thanks BCF a lot of it is mind over matter, I just wanted to eat but I didn't need to. Thanks for the encouragement! It really helps.

I have a really bad headache today Sad

inthethickofit19 · 19/01/2020 13:05

Also, you may recall I've had a rough ride with LO. He's finally sleeping through 7-7 so I can't blame exhaustion for not being able to fast! Its come after a long and horrendous 9 months so I've felt like I've just wanted to binge eat in the evenings in peace 😳

EssentialHummus · 19/01/2020 13:22

inthe it took me a few months after DD’s sleep came right, to feel that I didn’t have to shovel food in at every opportunity. You’re right, it’s absolutely bingeing. Hope headache passes v soon.

BigChocFrenzy · 19/01/2020 14:50

inthethick To avoid headaches, I suggest you:

  • glug down a level teasp Marmite on FDs and at least the NFD after as well
    On NFDs, a hot Bovril drink is an alternative

  • start each day with a glass of water and keep drinking water, still or sparkling.
    Other fizzy drinks are not as good and may even cause headaches

OP posts:
BigChocFrenzy · 19/01/2020 14:54

And try to plan as much sleep as possible, now your lo has settled in a routine
Lack of sleep is a major cause of headaches

You need to give yourself some TLC after all your hard work with lo Smile

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inthethickofit19 · 19/01/2020 14:56

Thank you. I went to bed at 10pm yesterday, earlier than I have been for months and had a good sleep. But it's all about catching up with that sleep deficit now.

I can do this.

BigChocFrenzy · 19/01/2020 20:12

FD finished
L: veg soup and S: beef stew with cauliflower rice
A good hour lifting session at the gym after spin

I'll have an early night, to maximise fasting benefits
A happy Sunday: I'm looking forward to my last week at work ! Grin

It could take a good week of early bed to catch up your sleep deficit, inthethick but you'll probably have a bit more energy after that

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EssentialHummus · 19/01/2020 20:46

Ooh, your final week has come round bigchoc! Are those two parties for your teammates still on?

That sounds a good FD, well done!

Whattodowithaminute · 19/01/2020 21:10

Oh wow bigchoc how are you feeling about retirement? Hope you enjoy celebrations this week. Well done on a successful FD.

SydneyCarton · 19/01/2020 21:11

BigChoc How exciting, your last week!

inthethick The sleep deprivation is a killer, isn’t it? Mine were all rubbish sleepers until about 2, and my youngest is only 18 months and up 2-3 times a night. Only for 5-10 minutes usually but it means I never sleep for more than 3 hours at a time, and end up eating more than I should just for the energy boost.

Not a great weekend food wise, Saturday was okay but I have been under the weather today with a cold and indulged myself with treat food

SydneyCarton · 19/01/2020 21:16

Posted too soon! I don’t think I’ve gone completely overboard, lunch was homemade quiche and salad which was delicious, but I definitely feel in need of tomorrow’s FD to clear everything out and get back on track Smile

aberjenagain · 19/01/2020 22:33

Sounds a v productive fd bcf and eeek, last week of work! Hope all goes well, and enjoy being a lady of (relative!) leisure Grin

noseovertail · 20/01/2020 07:18

Ooh exciting, enjoy your last week at work bcf :-)

Nfd today, didnt track calories over the weekend and lo and behold a wee bit of snacking snuck in, so will be working hard on that this week! Meeting a friend for lunch but no clue where yet so cant plan ahead.... fd tomorrow

Good luck monday fasters Smile

emcla · 20/01/2020 08:25

Good luck to bigchoc. Last week at work , Hope you enjoy it.

Anyone else on board the fasting train with me today ??

Laniakea · 20/01/2020 08:51

I'm coming back for some accountability/motivation!

Last November I was 145 lbs

... then I hurt my hip, we went on holiday, had Christmas, loads of birthdays etc & just wanted to be 'normal for a while' so I stopped trying to lose weight & just stuck to basic rules (no snacking, not much booze, fast before or after what will be a very calorific day) & tried not to worry.

I braved the scales today .... 146 lbs!

I'm actually really pleased but still 11lbs over a healthy weight & another 10 over what I would like to be. But as of today I'm back on it - planning Tuesday, Thursday, Saturday fasts this week.

Whattodowithaminute · 20/01/2020 09:17

Well done lania sounds like you have a good new WOL established-sure the next bit of loss will come your way.
I’m fasting with you today emcla omelette for lunch, Tom
Yum soup for dinner.

OohMrDarcy · 20/01/2020 09:42

Morning all

congrats on the SVs Blodyn , nose

Big Choc - the early night definitely happened! Have had them all weekend! OMG - retirement is finally within sneezing distance for you! How exciting! Enjoy your last week Smile

emcla - I'm fasting too today
lania - brill that you were able to maintain without trying! Gave yourself a nice break and are now ready to lose some more, good luck!

BigChocFrenzy · 20/01/2020 10:27

I've been lucky to enjoy nearly all my jobs and I have lovely colleagues,
but I'm still really looking forward to freedom from having to go to work ! Grin
Even more time for gym and more Rhine walks; also I plan regular sauna sessions at the gym

Currently buying in some nice vegan food for my Friday retirement lunch, as they won't want the pizza - with 90 coming, bound to be some vegans

Welcome back, Lania
That's excellent that you can maintain, even over the holiday period
A break can be helpful, for those like you who can sts and aren't in a hurry
Now you can resume weight loss with some confidence you can avoid regain after goal

Good luck today, emcla, MrD, what, nose, Sydney and all the Monday fasting gang

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