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Fasting / 5:2 diet

Talk about intermittent fasting and 5:2, including what’s worked for others. Mumsnet hasn't checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. You may wish to speak to a medical professional before starting any diet.

5:2 Thread number 88: Anyone trying to pull you down is beneath you - come join our friendly & knowledgeable group to BOOST you up to goal

979 replies

BigChocFrenzy · 22/11/2019 00:06

Welcome to the continuing thread for those following 5:2 or other forms of IF (Intermittent Fasting) such as 4:3, ADF, or daily 16:8 Smile

The 5:2 diet was introduced by Michael Mosely on BBC Horizon on August 2012:

Basically it is 2 very low cal days ("fasts") per week - which need not be consecutive - and eat "normally" to maintain on the other 5 days.

For those who have dieted or maybe overeaten for years, eating "normally"
means roughly the number of calories your body needs to maintain - NOT reduce - its weight (see TDEE calculator below).

IMPORTANT
If you have had past diagnosed Eating Disorders or serious MH problems you should NOT do 5:2 or any other kind of fasting

ACRONYMS

16:8 is a different type of fasting, which can be combined with 5:2.
Daily zero-cal fast for 16 hours and eat within an 8 hour window. To lose weight, this needs a weekly calorie deficit as well

4:3 = fast on 3 non-consecutive days per week

ADF (Alternate-Day Fasting) = fast every other day

b2b (optional) back-to-back / consecutive fast days, each with an increased allowance of 650 calories instead of 500

BMI (Body Mass Index) healthy range is 18.5 - 24.9 for Caucasians. Upper limit may be 22 for some of Asian origin.

FD = single Fast Day: aim for 500 calories (600 for men or 25% TDEE whichever is higher) or 1000 cals for BF
No alcohol or junk on FDs
Even if you exercise strenuously, do NOT increase FD cals to allow for exercise

MFP = My Fitness Pal, a useful App or website to track food & drink calories

miniFD = MiniFD, 850- 1000 calories, no alcohol or junk

NFD = Non-Fast Day, averages around TDEE

NSV / LSV = Non Scale Victory / LifeStyle (change) Victory, e.g. compliment, smaller waist, clothes size

SV = Scale Victory

TDEE = Total Daily Energy Expenditure, the average number of calories you burn in a day, is calculated (see calculators below) from your current weight, height, age, activity level.
Aim to average about this for NFDs.

WOE / WOL = Way Of Eating / Way Of Life. We say this instead of "diet", to emphasise that we must make a permanent change in how we eat, to mainitain our new healthy weight longterm.

HOW TO START

. Take initial measurements: weight, waist, hips
. Use TDEE calculator below if you need a rough guide to how much to eat on NFDs
. Choose any 2 days for FDs, non-consecutive is easier.
. Before each FD: plan, shop & calorie count ALL food & drink for the day

Useful Resources & Calculators

Calorie Counter: mfp
Rough Calories for NFD: Mosely TDEE Calc (exercisers: set activity level to one below what you think)
BMI: Calc
Ideal Weight & Body Frame Size: Calc Wt Frame
Body Fat: BFat Calc
Choose / Visualise Goal Weight:
3D BMI body types ripped to normal
Bod Vis Measurements & 3D rotate]]

Safe Alcohol Calc: Calc Units Cals

FD Recipes:
Mosely LowCarb , low carb Diet Doc
BBC Good Food 52 , BBC Good Food 500 cal meals ,
Good2Know , Foodie Under 200 Cals
Vegetarian ,

FD Ready Meals, Fast Food

Any Day:
Meal Planner

FAQs / Tips

  • WATER: Start each day with a glass of water; and drink plenty during the day.
  • HOT DRINKS: No limits on tea or coffee, but on FDs count any milk / sugar calories.
  • SLEEP: Try to get enough sleep, or it may slow weight loss.
  • EXERCISE: is healthy & can help weight loss - BUT only if you do NOT eat back less than you burn. Fasted training can burn more fat.
HIIT and resistance training both work well with 5:2/IF.
  • FDs: If possible, choose days when you are busy, but not preparing meals for others.
Concentrate on protein & veg; avoid sugar or fruit juice. e.g. Stir-fries, soups & stews. Ready meals are OK.
  • BFers: start with 1000-cal FDs, optionally reduce to 700 cals gradually.
You can return to 1000 if growth spurts or sleep-deprivation require more fuel.
  • NFDs: No rules, but to improve health, try to cut down on added sugar & junk food, keep alcohol within safe limits. A few treats per week are fine.
  • Do NOT fast: if you've ever had EDs, or if pregnant, under 21, over-stressed, fever, stomach bug, even a bad cold.
  • CHECK with your Doctor: if you have diabetes, any other endocrine condition, any serious past or present medical condition, or if taking ANY prescribed medication (fasting may affect absorption rate)

Scientific Evidence for Fasting & Health

BBC article on the original Horizon program

Telegraph comments on 5:2 and gives a brief overview by Dr Mosley, useful for newbies.

This InterviewPart1 and InterviewPart2 with leading ADF researcher Dr Varady explains why fasting helps you to lose weight AND improves some health markers.

Fasting boosts "autophagy" = recycling of old cells
Yoshinori Ohsumi won the 2016 Nobel prize for Medicine for research into autophagy
NOBEL Lecture “Autophagy – An Intracellular Recycling System”

Prof. R Taylor (Newcastle Uni) won the 2013 Diabetes UK Banting Prize for his Twin Cycle Hypothesis re the cause of type 2 diabetes: Twin Cycle Hypothesis T2
and showed a fasting diet could reverse T2

Dr Michelle Harvie (funded by cancer charities) showed possible benefits of intermittent fasting compared to standard daily calorie reduction in her trials (consecutive FDs) with women at high risk of breast cancer: ComparingDiets , EarlierResearch52

Dr Johnson showed intermittent fasting helped Asthma

HORMESIS & Why Intermittent Fasting Works: Mattson , BlackSwan and Hormesis

Molecular Mechanisms and Clinical Applications: J CellMetabolism
Recent research into the health benefits of fasting: e.g. by world-respected neuroscientist Dr MarkMattson (Mosely referred to his research) showed:

. Improved glucose regulation
. Loss of abdominal fat with maintenance of muscle mass
. Reduced blood pressure and heart rate
. Improved learning and memory and motor function
. Protection of neurons in the brain against dysfunction and degeneration in animal models of Alzheimer’s disease, Parkinson’s disease, stroke and Huntington’s disease.

Brain metabolism in health, aging, andneurodegeneration :
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

He compared 5:2 to ordinary daily diets on overweight women with family history of breast cancer.
Fasting group lost more belly fat, retained more muscle & had slightly better blood sugar regulation.

More of his research is in HealthyAging , Health , AvoidParkinsonsDisease

His article in J Aging Mech Disease 2015 explains the health benefits of intermittent fasting in great scientific detail.

Why intermittent fasting and stopping snacking can lower your risk of serious diseases:
Meal frequency and timing in health and disease

Fasting can help maintain brain health during aging:
emboj.embopress.org/content/36/11/1474
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

This interview with leading researchers into fasting in combination with standard cancer treatment: ScientificDiscussion MoselyMattsonLongo and a LongoInterview

NY Times Fasting Overview

Research by other US and European scientists in this DailyTelegraph Article about the medicinal uses of fasting, for many serious conditions & diseases.

Recent trials with Type 2 diabetics and those at risk of having it used a form of daily fasting - skipping supper.
Their conclusions: eating 1-2 meals per day is better than several small meals for losing weight and controlling insulin levels, see Type2Paper

OP posts:
Thread gallery
5
noseovertail · 17/01/2020 08:11

cross post - but wow, excellent SV harriet

badger82 · 17/01/2020 08:53

I smashed it yesterday and rewarded with 1kg Sv this morning Smile thanks for all the encouragement. Just got to stay on track over weekend so that I can continue with success

EssentialHummus · 17/01/2020 08:56

Wow harriet and badger - amazing! Well done.

OohMrDarcy · 17/01/2020 09:03

Morning all

Congrats on the amazing SVs harriet and badger - good going!

Friday FD for me and it is going to be a tough one. Up half the night with work and the issues continue into today. Caffeine will be king in the house! I have some leftover casserole which will sort me out and I'm going to grab a pizza for the kids so I don't have to waste energy faffing!

moonlight1705 · 17/01/2020 09:04

Well done harriet and badger - what lovely SVs.

I am feeling a lot better today but am going to keep on a non FD today but am going to not have any alcohol this weekend at all.

I have decided my mini goal is to lose 6kg (or 1 stone roughly). That will mean I am under a BMI of 40 for the first time in ages - it would be nice to get that done by Easter. So fingers crossed no more sickness.

Whattodowithaminute · 17/01/2020 09:16

Wow harriet that’s a great achievement. 1lb off here so going in the right direction. Super early night last night so feeling energised this morning too.
Good luck Friday fasters.

Whattodowithaminute · 17/01/2020 09:18

Amazing badger well done!
Hope you feel better soon moonlight and the stone by easter sounds like a positive goal-good luck.

noseovertail · 17/01/2020 09:49

fantastic badger Smile and what lots of lovely SVs today!

Oh dear mrd that sounds tough, hope today gets better for you

emcla · 17/01/2020 11:46

Hi all , waves to everyone 👋
I am back after a spectacular weight gain in a month. Fd today needless to say.

BigChocFrenzy · 17/01/2020 12:03

Congratulations on your SVs, harriet, what, badger
Great to hear all the good news Smile

That sounds too stressful, MrD
Is working overnight essential to keep your job / boost career / or just you being too conscientious ?

That's good news your tum is better, moonlight
and the no-alcohol WE will help avoid a flare-up

  • alcohol is an irritant for a sensitive gut, as is fruit juice and very spicy food, so I recommend avoiding all these for the next few days

Welcome back, emcla

That's a very doable next goal, moonlight
Dropping into a lower BMI class is a major milestone

Good luck on your FDs, MrD, nose, emcla and any other Friday fasters

Are you fasting at the WE, Hummus ?

OP posts:
aberjenagain · 17/01/2020 13:02

Well done harriet. badger and what!

Good luck today mrd - hope you’re managing to get through it okay.

Good luck to you too nose and emcla

EssentialHummus · 17/01/2020 13:04

I might do Sunday bigchoc - scales were great today but tonight and tomorrow are both meals/drinks out, so we’ll see how I go.

harriethoyle · 17/01/2020 13:07

Went to get a sandwich at lunch...SO much mayonnaise in it, I couldn't eat the second half. So had 92 calorie bag of skips and a black coffee flexes resiatance muscles

BigChocFrenzy · 17/01/2020 15:40

Congrats on your SV too, Hummus

Harriet 🏋🏽‍♀️ !

With only 2.4lb to your 1st target, things may slow down a bit, aber
but be patient and you'll get there,
then you can move towards the ideal goal you want

OP posts:
noseovertail · 17/01/2020 17:32

Welcome back emcla
Envy

emcla · 17/01/2020 18:33

Finished for today bagel and tuna for dinner. Hot water from now on. Lots of catching up to do on this thread. Have a great weekend everyone.

harriethoyle · 17/01/2020 18:58

@noseovertail I love mayonnaise but I could barely find the chicken in it! YUCK

Coulddowithanap · 17/01/2020 19:08

Starting 5:2 again, put on half a stone over Christmas :(

Not a great first day back, currently on 731 calories (after dinner but I know I'll want a small snack later) Accidently had McDonald's fries for lunch, well they were free so couldn't say no Blush but not giving up on today and eating everything in sight that I would normally do, then say I'll start again tomorrow!

OohMrDarcy · 17/01/2020 19:09

Hi all

Survived the day no probs, kitchen closed on around about 500.

An on call rotation is part of my job BigChoc, 1 week in 3, and major issues only happen a few times a year at most so it's fine really.. just tiring when it does happen!

Congrats hummus

blodynmawr · 17/01/2020 19:23

2.5lb off this week. Smile
Need to keep focussed on the NFDs to keep the trend up next week.
Well done all other losers this week!

noseovertail · 17/01/2020 20:12

Fantastic sv blod
Well done emcla
could 731 is not a bad fd, can you brush your teeth, have a bath and an early night?

I've distracted myself by having a bath, face mask and painting nails, going to have an early night also. Ds sat next to me munching pringles and some choc biscuits Envy "I can have a treat tomorrow"

BigChocFrenzy · 17/01/2020 21:33

Congratulations on your SV, Blodyn
Lots of lovely SVs today Smile

Well done on your FD, nose
excellent distraction technique, especially with DS munching away beside you !

Well done, MrD
Why not have an early night and catch up on all that missed sleep^

That's a good 1st FD back, emcla

Welcome back, nap

Important tip:
No snacking / grazing ever, even at WEs
Have meals, nothing between - have any treat as part of an NFD meal, e.g. as pud

It really makes a difference

OP posts:
moonlight1705 · 18/01/2020 07:59

STS this week which is not entirely unsurprising but will have a good non snacky and non alcoholic weekend.

Good luck anyone FDing today.

noseovertail · 18/01/2020 08:20

Morning everyone, well done on sets moon if you've had a tricky week?

2lb off for me this week and even though it's only 4lb in total since 2nd Jan I feel so much less bloated around the middle (where I carry it all!)

Nfd today and having salmon and prawn pasta for tea so I will have slightly less pasta and bump it up with a side salad for me, but will enjoy a couple of glass of wine with it, mmmmm

Good luck to those fasting over the weekend Smile

noseovertail · 18/01/2020 08:21

Sets = sts