Meet the Other Phone. Child-safe in minutes.

Meet the Other Phone.
Child-safe in minutes.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Fasting / 5:2 diet

Talk about intermittent fasting and 5:2, including what’s worked for others. Mumsnet hasn't checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. You may wish to speak to a medical professional before starting any diet.

5:2 Thread number 88: Anyone trying to pull you down is beneath you - come join our friendly & knowledgeable group to BOOST you up to goal

979 replies

BigChocFrenzy · 22/11/2019 00:06

Welcome to the continuing thread for those following 5:2 or other forms of IF (Intermittent Fasting) such as 4:3, ADF, or daily 16:8 Smile

The 5:2 diet was introduced by Michael Mosely on BBC Horizon on August 2012:

Basically it is 2 very low cal days ("fasts") per week - which need not be consecutive - and eat "normally" to maintain on the other 5 days.

For those who have dieted or maybe overeaten for years, eating "normally"
means roughly the number of calories your body needs to maintain - NOT reduce - its weight (see TDEE calculator below).

IMPORTANT
If you have had past diagnosed Eating Disorders or serious MH problems you should NOT do 5:2 or any other kind of fasting

ACRONYMS

16:8 is a different type of fasting, which can be combined with 5:2.
Daily zero-cal fast for 16 hours and eat within an 8 hour window. To lose weight, this needs a weekly calorie deficit as well

4:3 = fast on 3 non-consecutive days per week

ADF (Alternate-Day Fasting) = fast every other day

b2b (optional) back-to-back / consecutive fast days, each with an increased allowance of 650 calories instead of 500

BMI (Body Mass Index) healthy range is 18.5 - 24.9 for Caucasians. Upper limit may be 22 for some of Asian origin.

FD = single Fast Day: aim for 500 calories (600 for men or 25% TDEE whichever is higher) or 1000 cals for BF
No alcohol or junk on FDs
Even if you exercise strenuously, do NOT increase FD cals to allow for exercise

MFP = My Fitness Pal, a useful App or website to track food & drink calories

miniFD = MiniFD, 850- 1000 calories, no alcohol or junk

NFD = Non-Fast Day, averages around TDEE

NSV / LSV = Non Scale Victory / LifeStyle (change) Victory, e.g. compliment, smaller waist, clothes size

SV = Scale Victory

TDEE = Total Daily Energy Expenditure, the average number of calories you burn in a day, is calculated (see calculators below) from your current weight, height, age, activity level.
Aim to average about this for NFDs.

WOE / WOL = Way Of Eating / Way Of Life. We say this instead of "diet", to emphasise that we must make a permanent change in how we eat, to mainitain our new healthy weight longterm.

HOW TO START

. Take initial measurements: weight, waist, hips
. Use TDEE calculator below if you need a rough guide to how much to eat on NFDs
. Choose any 2 days for FDs, non-consecutive is easier.
. Before each FD: plan, shop & calorie count ALL food & drink for the day

Useful Resources & Calculators

Calorie Counter: mfp
Rough Calories for NFD: Mosely TDEE Calc (exercisers: set activity level to one below what you think)
BMI: Calc
Ideal Weight & Body Frame Size: Calc Wt Frame
Body Fat: BFat Calc
Choose / Visualise Goal Weight:
3D BMI body types ripped to normal
Bod Vis Measurements & 3D rotate]]

Safe Alcohol Calc: Calc Units Cals

FD Recipes:
Mosely LowCarb , low carb Diet Doc
BBC Good Food 52 , BBC Good Food 500 cal meals ,
Good2Know , Foodie Under 200 Cals
Vegetarian ,

FD Ready Meals, Fast Food

Any Day:
Meal Planner

FAQs / Tips

  • WATER: Start each day with a glass of water; and drink plenty during the day.
  • HOT DRINKS: No limits on tea or coffee, but on FDs count any milk / sugar calories.
  • SLEEP: Try to get enough sleep, or it may slow weight loss.
  • EXERCISE: is healthy & can help weight loss - BUT only if you do NOT eat back less than you burn. Fasted training can burn more fat.
HIIT and resistance training both work well with 5:2/IF.
  • FDs: If possible, choose days when you are busy, but not preparing meals for others.
Concentrate on protein & veg; avoid sugar or fruit juice. e.g. Stir-fries, soups & stews. Ready meals are OK.
  • BFers: start with 1000-cal FDs, optionally reduce to 700 cals gradually.
You can return to 1000 if growth spurts or sleep-deprivation require more fuel.
  • NFDs: No rules, but to improve health, try to cut down on added sugar & junk food, keep alcohol within safe limits. A few treats per week are fine.
  • Do NOT fast: if you've ever had EDs, or if pregnant, under 21, over-stressed, fever, stomach bug, even a bad cold.
  • CHECK with your Doctor: if you have diabetes, any other endocrine condition, any serious past or present medical condition, or if taking ANY prescribed medication (fasting may affect absorption rate)

Scientific Evidence for Fasting & Health

BBC article on the original Horizon program

Telegraph comments on 5:2 and gives a brief overview by Dr Mosley, useful for newbies.

This InterviewPart1 and InterviewPart2 with leading ADF researcher Dr Varady explains why fasting helps you to lose weight AND improves some health markers.

Fasting boosts "autophagy" = recycling of old cells
Yoshinori Ohsumi won the 2016 Nobel prize for Medicine for research into autophagy
NOBEL Lecture “Autophagy – An Intracellular Recycling System”

Prof. R Taylor (Newcastle Uni) won the 2013 Diabetes UK Banting Prize for his Twin Cycle Hypothesis re the cause of type 2 diabetes: Twin Cycle Hypothesis T2
and showed a fasting diet could reverse T2

Dr Michelle Harvie (funded by cancer charities) showed possible benefits of intermittent fasting compared to standard daily calorie reduction in her trials (consecutive FDs) with women at high risk of breast cancer: ComparingDiets , EarlierResearch52

Dr Johnson showed intermittent fasting helped Asthma

HORMESIS & Why Intermittent Fasting Works: Mattson , BlackSwan and Hormesis

Molecular Mechanisms and Clinical Applications: J CellMetabolism
Recent research into the health benefits of fasting: e.g. by world-respected neuroscientist Dr MarkMattson (Mosely referred to his research) showed:

. Improved glucose regulation
. Loss of abdominal fat with maintenance of muscle mass
. Reduced blood pressure and heart rate
. Improved learning and memory and motor function
. Protection of neurons in the brain against dysfunction and degeneration in animal models of Alzheimer’s disease, Parkinson’s disease, stroke and Huntington’s disease.

Brain metabolism in health, aging, andneurodegeneration :
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

He compared 5:2 to ordinary daily diets on overweight women with family history of breast cancer.
Fasting group lost more belly fat, retained more muscle & had slightly better blood sugar regulation.

More of his research is in HealthyAging , Health , AvoidParkinsonsDisease

His article in J Aging Mech Disease 2015 explains the health benefits of intermittent fasting in great scientific detail.

Why intermittent fasting and stopping snacking can lower your risk of serious diseases:
Meal frequency and timing in health and disease

Fasting can help maintain brain health during aging:
emboj.embopress.org/content/36/11/1474
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

This interview with leading researchers into fasting in combination with standard cancer treatment: ScientificDiscussion MoselyMattsonLongo and a LongoInterview

NY Times Fasting Overview

Research by other US and European scientists in this DailyTelegraph Article about the medicinal uses of fasting, for many serious conditions & diseases.

Recent trials with Type 2 diabetics and those at risk of having it used a form of daily fasting - skipping supper.
Their conclusions: eating 1-2 meals per day is better than several small meals for losing weight and controlling insulin levels, see Type2Paper

OP posts:
Thread gallery
5
harriethoyle · 15/01/2020 20:50

Well done @aberjenagain and @OohMrDarcy!

Got home later than I though, decided on beans on toast, went to the cupboard NO BEANS!!

The lure of toast and butter and marmite was STRONG. But I resisted and dusted off an ancient fish pie ready meal from the freezer for 338 cals. Feeling like a hero!!

SydneyCarton · 15/01/2020 22:39

FD done on 839, so more of a mini in fact. We had impromptu fish and chips, which MFP lists as 450 for an average portion. That would have been fine, but I got ambushed by onion rings and garlic mayonnaise Blush, which added another 300 cals. I’ve kept at or under TDEE all week and the Apple Watch tells me I’m burning well over 2000 calories a day so hopefully I’ll see a loss on the scales tomorrow 🤞

harriet Well done on resisting marmite toast, I’m pretty sure I would have caved in. Now I know what to have for breakfast Grin

aberjenagain · 16/01/2020 06:57

Morning all. Super chuffed with my sv this morning - am down to 135.4 lb, so I’ve lost the Christmas gain and then some, and am now only 2.4 lb away from my top-end target SmileSmile

Good luck to today’s fasters

Whattodowithaminute · 16/01/2020 07:19

Whoop whoop well done aber! Such a great achievement and great feeling too. Do you have a non food related celebration planned?!! I’m exactly 11st10 this morning-b2b today so hoping for a sv tomorrow. First goal for me is 11st 7 which will put me at pre kids weight which I haven’t seen for over 8 years.
Next goal will be 11st which I’m hoping to achieve by the easter hols; 10 weeks away so should be achievable-might even make it into a bikini!!

Summer15coming · 16/01/2020 07:47

Well done on the FD's and SV's everyone! I'm a Thursday faster. Really feel motivated for it as even though the last two days weren't disastrous, they also weren't great. I think I may add a miniFD on Saturday.

EssentialHummus · 16/01/2020 08:28

Well done aber! Good work harriet!

Good luck summer, what, I'm with you today.

moonlight1705 · 16/01/2020 08:40

Well done aber and good luck today summer and what and hummus

I was going to join you on a FD today but last night we must have had something dodgy as both DH and I were hugging the toilet with d&v.

So I am going to be taking a rest for 5 days (as suggested by BigChoc above) and restarting my FD next Tuesday. Although to be honest I cannot get much down today anyway so may end up being a mini FD.

80skid · 16/01/2020 09:33

Hi all, thanks for the inspiration from your posts! I had a major wobble yesterday (I am not capable of having "just 1 biscuit" which is why this diet of absolutely no snacking is so good for me). FD today. I bought a quorn fish fillet for my tea - never tried it before and it looks disappointingly small. I usually stick to eggs in some form and a mountain of veg for FDs which I believe is nearing the maximum quantity of food possible for the calories Hmm
I shall try to think of yesterday as reinforcing what I already knew about no snacking and stick to drinks instead of empty calories and temptations

noseovertail · 16/01/2020 10:21

morning all, bcf hope you sorted out the curtain issue, I agree with everyone else, your view is lovely :)

well done to all the fasters, and great willpower harriet Grin

excellent SV aber that's fantastic and good luck for tomorrow what it sounds like yo will get your SV

good luck today 80s and all the other fasters.

NFD today, have no clue what I'm eating yet. FD #2 tomorrow

Have a great day everyone Smile

BigChocFrenzy · 16/01/2020 10:34

Congratulations on your SV, aber
So near to goal
That should make the FDs and sensible NFDs all worth it

Well done on nailing your b2b, aber, blodyn
and your FDs / miniFDs, harriet, Sydney

Excellent choice of fish pie, harriet
Good discipline

I hope you & MrMoonlight recover v soon, moon
Do keep drinking water, as you'll be dehydrated and your bod needs extra atm.
As always, I recommend waiting a few days after symptoms have gone before an FD

You are so near pre-kids weight, what
and a really motivating milestone

I'm pinning my hopes on WD40, nose
I suspect I have too many pleats and hooks too close together
Oh well, now everyone has seen a bit of the Choc Cave Grin

No snacking is a great help in cutting down junk and extra calories, 80s
It needs to become a permanent habit for lifelong weight management, not just part of a "diet" that you stop at goal.

With 3-4 decent meals per day, your body doesn't actually need snacks - it's usually habit, boredom etc not hunger

Noone's perfect. The important thing is not to let one slip ruin the rest of the day or even week
If you do succumb to a wobble, don't beat yourself up - that doesn't burn enough calories ! - just stop the binge or whatever and move on with the rest of your day

Good luck, hummus, summer, what and any other fasters today

OP posts:
SydneyCarton · 16/01/2020 10:52

Well done aber, that’s great! Is 133 lb 9 and a half stone? That’s my “would be great but not sure how sustainable it is” weight; at the moment my first goal is 10 stone and then 9:10, and I’ll see how I feel.

The mini FD yesterday obviously didn’t hurt as I weighed in at 10:2:6, which is over 1.5 lbs down from last week. I was aiming for 10:2 by the end of the month but I might make 10 st at this rate!

BigChocFrenzy · 16/01/2020 13:22

Congratulations on your SV, Sydney

Yep, 133lb is 9½ stone = 9 st 7 lb

Many 5:2ers have reached their original target and then have found they can comfortable progress to a new target that originally they hadn't thought feasible.

OP posts:
badger82 · 16/01/2020 14:38

Fasting today as yesterday was a total failure in the end. Hope I'll see a SV tomorrow to keep motivation up. So far so good. Having one meal this eve for 749 Smile

Whattodowithaminute · 16/01/2020 17:20

Kitchen closed bang on 650. Omelette for dinner with salad which was actually very satisfying-haven’t felt hungry really-the hard thing is breaking those bad habits of nibbling the kids dinner... I need to start cooking them things I don’t like...!

badger82 · 16/01/2020 17:28

Agreed @whattodowith the zero snacking rule helps but I find once I start I can't stop. I've not eaten anything yet today and it's easier for me than having "lunch" as once the floodgates open.....

WineGummyBear · 16/01/2020 18:43

Hi again,

I'm still reading with interest. Just finished week 2. 2 of my FDs were hideous (all hunger pangs and dreams of empty carbs). 2 went fine.

I'm finding my NFDs interesting. Definitely tempted to indulge so I'm not convinced I'm keeping within my allotted 1,700 calories.

But also find I'm looking at my food in terms of- ok so what nutrition is actually in there... I'm training my mind to look for the protein. Thinking that may help keep me on the right track.

Just like pp said above, preparing the children's tea is the hardest time of day!

I have another question. Once you get to your target weight- what are the options?

EssentialHummus · 16/01/2020 19:01

Kitchen closed here, teeth brushed. Well done what, sydney. How are you getting on badger?

wine I’m at my target weight. I now do either 6:1 or 5:2 with a higher calorie allowance, and straight back to “normal” 5:2 if I go back above my goal weight. It’s still early days for me but seems to be working.

sparkle789 · 16/01/2020 20:58

I managed to stick to my FD yesterday ended on 510.
Thank you for the support and encouragement.

aberjenagain · 16/01/2020 21:25

Thanks all!

Well done on the FDs hummus and what.

hummus great to hear maintenance is working out so well. I think i’ll aim for 5:2 with a higher NFD allowance when the time comes.

sydney I’m only 5’ 3” so 9 1/2 stone still gives me a bmi at the higher end of normal - around 23.2. Ideally I’d like to get down to 9 st, but that was the target I didn’t quite manage to reach last time I did 5:2...

Summer15coming · 16/01/2020 22:41

I've been starving all day (okay - maybe an overstatement), so I'm thrilled that I managed to stick to only 525. I'm off to bed whilst the going's good!

BigChocFrenzy · 16/01/2020 22:54

Well done on your FD, what, summer, sparkle and all the other fasters

OP posts:
BigChocFrenzy · 16/01/2020 23:01

Well done too, hummus

OP posts:
BigChocFrenzy · 16/01/2020 23:17

Maintenance
Almost everyone needs to define their maintenance plan, because .....

If you slip back to your old WOL, you'll slip back to your old waist & weight Shock

Maintenance basics

  • Keep to the 5:2 healthy habits even at weekends:

NHS alcohol limits, no snacking / grazing, sensible about treats, lots of water & veg, limit / cut out flavoured fizzy drinks

  • Daily 12:12, i.e eat only within a window of 12 hours - or less -
    e.g. start at 8 am and finish at 8 pm

  • Weigh yourself at least weekly and also the day after a vacation

  • Return to 5:2 whenever you remain 4lb above happy weight for a week (allows for temporary blips, totm)
    Also return if your waist or hips stay 1" over goal.

  • Regular exercise. Studies show most successful maintainers after any diet do this
    Even a brisk 20 mins daily walk outside helps
    If you lack time, Mosely's Fat Blasts (see OP in 5:2/IF Exercise Thread #3 )are only 2-5 minutes, on 3-5 days per week.

Possible Eating Plans:
. Keep on 5:2 and eat back the FD cals, so you can indulge more (but not madly) at weekends or social events

. Do 6:1 / 13:1, if this is sufficient - depends on how indulgent your usual NFDs become

. Daily 14:10 or 16:8

. Mosely's daily Mediteranean low-medium carb (his maintenance plan for BSD / Fast800)

....... your choice ......

OP posts:
harriethoyle · 17/01/2020 08:08

Scales show 2.6kg off this morning! Now, a lot of that will be plane bloat because I weighed myself the day we got back from holidays but I'll take it!!

Can only do 1 proper FD next week but am going to make Tuesday a mini and am driving to work dinner on Thursday so I don't drink. Every little helps!

noseovertail · 17/01/2020 08:10

morning everyone, happy friday Grin

well done to all the fasters yesterday, lots of you hummus what sparkle summer

Great SV sydney Grin

FD today to curb weekend indulgence, got a turkey salad and 2 satsumas for lunch and no clue yet for dinner, maybe omelette or soup. Anyone else fasting today??

Swipe left for the next trending thread