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Fasting / 5:2 diet

Talk about intermittent fasting and 5:2, including what’s worked for others. Mumsnet hasn't checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. You may wish to speak to a medical professional before starting any diet.

5:2 Thread number 88: Anyone trying to pull you down is beneath you - come join our friendly & knowledgeable group to BOOST you up to goal

979 replies

BigChocFrenzy · 22/11/2019 00:06

Welcome to the continuing thread for those following 5:2 or other forms of IF (Intermittent Fasting) such as 4:3, ADF, or daily 16:8 Smile

The 5:2 diet was introduced by Michael Mosely on BBC Horizon on August 2012:

Basically it is 2 very low cal days ("fasts") per week - which need not be consecutive - and eat "normally" to maintain on the other 5 days.

For those who have dieted or maybe overeaten for years, eating "normally"
means roughly the number of calories your body needs to maintain - NOT reduce - its weight (see TDEE calculator below).

IMPORTANT
If you have had past diagnosed Eating Disorders or serious MH problems you should NOT do 5:2 or any other kind of fasting

ACRONYMS

16:8 is a different type of fasting, which can be combined with 5:2.
Daily zero-cal fast for 16 hours and eat within an 8 hour window. To lose weight, this needs a weekly calorie deficit as well

4:3 = fast on 3 non-consecutive days per week

ADF (Alternate-Day Fasting) = fast every other day

b2b (optional) back-to-back / consecutive fast days, each with an increased allowance of 650 calories instead of 500

BMI (Body Mass Index) healthy range is 18.5 - 24.9 for Caucasians. Upper limit may be 22 for some of Asian origin.

FD = single Fast Day: aim for 500 calories (600 for men or 25% TDEE whichever is higher) or 1000 cals for BF
No alcohol or junk on FDs
Even if you exercise strenuously, do NOT increase FD cals to allow for exercise

MFP = My Fitness Pal, a useful App or website to track food & drink calories

miniFD = MiniFD, 850- 1000 calories, no alcohol or junk

NFD = Non-Fast Day, averages around TDEE

NSV / LSV = Non Scale Victory / LifeStyle (change) Victory, e.g. compliment, smaller waist, clothes size

SV = Scale Victory

TDEE = Total Daily Energy Expenditure, the average number of calories you burn in a day, is calculated (see calculators below) from your current weight, height, age, activity level.
Aim to average about this for NFDs.

WOE / WOL = Way Of Eating / Way Of Life. We say this instead of "diet", to emphasise that we must make a permanent change in how we eat, to mainitain our new healthy weight longterm.

HOW TO START

. Take initial measurements: weight, waist, hips
. Use TDEE calculator below if you need a rough guide to how much to eat on NFDs
. Choose any 2 days for FDs, non-consecutive is easier.
. Before each FD: plan, shop & calorie count ALL food & drink for the day

Useful Resources & Calculators

Calorie Counter: mfp
Rough Calories for NFD: Mosely TDEE Calc (exercisers: set activity level to one below what you think)
BMI: Calc
Ideal Weight & Body Frame Size: Calc Wt Frame
Body Fat: BFat Calc
Choose / Visualise Goal Weight:
3D BMI body types ripped to normal
Bod Vis Measurements & 3D rotate]]

Safe Alcohol Calc: Calc Units Cals

FD Recipes:
Mosely LowCarb , low carb Diet Doc
BBC Good Food 52 , BBC Good Food 500 cal meals ,
Good2Know , Foodie Under 200 Cals
Vegetarian ,

FD Ready Meals, Fast Food

Any Day:
Meal Planner

FAQs / Tips

  • WATER: Start each day with a glass of water; and drink plenty during the day.
  • HOT DRINKS: No limits on tea or coffee, but on FDs count any milk / sugar calories.
  • SLEEP: Try to get enough sleep, or it may slow weight loss.
  • EXERCISE: is healthy & can help weight loss - BUT only if you do NOT eat back less than you burn. Fasted training can burn more fat.
HIIT and resistance training both work well with 5:2/IF.
  • FDs: If possible, choose days when you are busy, but not preparing meals for others.
Concentrate on protein & veg; avoid sugar or fruit juice. e.g. Stir-fries, soups & stews. Ready meals are OK.
  • BFers: start with 1000-cal FDs, optionally reduce to 700 cals gradually.
You can return to 1000 if growth spurts or sleep-deprivation require more fuel.
  • NFDs: No rules, but to improve health, try to cut down on added sugar & junk food, keep alcohol within safe limits. A few treats per week are fine.
  • Do NOT fast: if you've ever had EDs, or if pregnant, under 21, over-stressed, fever, stomach bug, even a bad cold.
  • CHECK with your Doctor: if you have diabetes, any other endocrine condition, any serious past or present medical condition, or if taking ANY prescribed medication (fasting may affect absorption rate)

Scientific Evidence for Fasting & Health

BBC article on the original Horizon program

Telegraph comments on 5:2 and gives a brief overview by Dr Mosley, useful for newbies.

This InterviewPart1 and InterviewPart2 with leading ADF researcher Dr Varady explains why fasting helps you to lose weight AND improves some health markers.

Fasting boosts "autophagy" = recycling of old cells
Yoshinori Ohsumi won the 2016 Nobel prize for Medicine for research into autophagy
NOBEL Lecture “Autophagy – An Intracellular Recycling System”

Prof. R Taylor (Newcastle Uni) won the 2013 Diabetes UK Banting Prize for his Twin Cycle Hypothesis re the cause of type 2 diabetes: Twin Cycle Hypothesis T2
and showed a fasting diet could reverse T2

Dr Michelle Harvie (funded by cancer charities) showed possible benefits of intermittent fasting compared to standard daily calorie reduction in her trials (consecutive FDs) with women at high risk of breast cancer: ComparingDiets , EarlierResearch52

Dr Johnson showed intermittent fasting helped Asthma

HORMESIS & Why Intermittent Fasting Works: Mattson , BlackSwan and Hormesis

Molecular Mechanisms and Clinical Applications: J CellMetabolism
Recent research into the health benefits of fasting: e.g. by world-respected neuroscientist Dr MarkMattson (Mosely referred to his research) showed:

. Improved glucose regulation
. Loss of abdominal fat with maintenance of muscle mass
. Reduced blood pressure and heart rate
. Improved learning and memory and motor function
. Protection of neurons in the brain against dysfunction and degeneration in animal models of Alzheimer’s disease, Parkinson’s disease, stroke and Huntington’s disease.

Brain metabolism in health, aging, andneurodegeneration :
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

He compared 5:2 to ordinary daily diets on overweight women with family history of breast cancer.
Fasting group lost more belly fat, retained more muscle & had slightly better blood sugar regulation.

More of his research is in HealthyAging , Health , AvoidParkinsonsDisease

His article in J Aging Mech Disease 2015 explains the health benefits of intermittent fasting in great scientific detail.

Why intermittent fasting and stopping snacking can lower your risk of serious diseases:
Meal frequency and timing in health and disease

Fasting can help maintain brain health during aging:
emboj.embopress.org/content/36/11/1474
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

This interview with leading researchers into fasting in combination with standard cancer treatment: ScientificDiscussion MoselyMattsonLongo and a LongoInterview

NY Times Fasting Overview

Research by other US and European scientists in this DailyTelegraph Article about the medicinal uses of fasting, for many serious conditions & diseases.

Recent trials with Type 2 diabetics and those at risk of having it used a form of daily fasting - skipping supper.
Their conclusions: eating 1-2 meals per day is better than several small meals for losing weight and controlling insulin levels, see Type2Paper

OP posts:
Thread gallery
5
OohMrDarcy · 15/01/2020 09:20

Morning all

Crazy couple of days at work - fasting today. Had planned for yesterday but after a nightmare journey to head office I had bought and drunk half a costa hot chocolate before I remembered so I moved it to today.

Cottage pie for dinner so I just need to work out how to do mine, may have it with minimal mash on top for me .

noseovertail · 15/01/2020 09:58

I did moon although did not want to get up this morning, so maybe too much of a good thing? Woke up with a cracking headache too Hmm

Hope work stress eases for you mrd but that's the fab thing with 5:2, that you can move it and be so flexible Smile good luck today

NFD today, Had a latte this morning and an apple (as needed to take some painkillers) got a chicken soup thing and extra chicken and a yogurt for lunch, think we are having salmon and veg for tea (with potatoes for DH and DS)

good luck weds fasters Smile

BigChocFrenzy · 15/01/2020 10:04

Good luck, what, MrD and any other Wednesday fasters
Another lovely sunny day and I'm back from work, so off for another Rhine walk shortly.

Excuse me if I ask the brainpower here for advice on a totally unrelated issue: Blush

The janitor hung my new curtains on my 2 big lounge windows while I was out, which stops the sun dazzling me,
BUT
they are soooo stiff on the track to pull Confused
Any ideas why, or what I can do ?
Oil ? Grin

I'm worried I'll break the hooks within a few days - they are on every 3rd pleat or less, on the top row of hook pockets. Same type of hooks as on the old curtains.
Each curtain is 230cm W X H, reduced to width 100 cm by pleats before hanging.
The curtains are lined and quite heavy, but there seems friction on the track, see top of photo

5:2 Thread number 88: Anyone trying to pull you down is beneath you - come join our friendly & knowledgeable group to BOOST you up to goal
5:2 Thread number 88: Anyone trying to pull you down is beneath you - come join our friendly & knowledgeable group to BOOST you up to goal
OP posts:
moonlight1705 · 15/01/2020 10:15

BigChoc - have you been able to get up there and have a look? Do the hooks sit perfectly within the tracking or are bits of material stuck in between? Which parts in particular are stiff, the end or the whole thing?

I guess WD40 or Vaseline might help it slide a little to start.

badger82 · 15/01/2020 10:20

Thanks @moonlight think that might have worked
Just been for a very wet dog walk it's torrential here. Doing a body coach workout shortly then making lovely tomato and red lentil soup for lunch. Sausages spring greens and mushrooms later.

No idea re curtains sorry @bigchoc

Anyone drink apple cider vinegar? If so how do you take it? I necked a shot of it the other day and felt horrendous. Not advisable. Too acidic.

EssentialHummus · 15/01/2020 10:21

I think best option would be to ask the janitor, but I’d try wd40 on one side and vaseline on the other - that way if it goes wrong it’s only half the cleaning.

NFD here, though I’ve not eaten breakfast yet so it may be 16:8 at this rate Grin.

Whattodowithaminute · 15/01/2020 10:25

Gorgeous view bcf! I’m no expert on the curtains though sorry...
FD here still a bit undecided about meals which feels a little
Like dangerous territory! Good luck all other Wednesday fasters.

BigChocFrenzy · 15/01/2020 11:05

Thanks for the advice, folks
I'll climb up and see if the track needs cleaning, then try some lubricants

badger Studies indicate apple cider may slightly help weight loss, e.g. if taken an hour before bed
BUT
do not drink neat apple cider, or too much even diluted
Neat can damage your oesophagus and hurt your tum, as - like all vinegars - it is very acidic

Doseage - if you want to try

Dilute 1 tbsp apple cider vinegar in at least 200 ml water
RInse your mouth out afterwards, to protect your teeth enamel, but wait at least 20 minutes before cleaning teeth

OP posts:
BigChocFrenzy · 15/01/2020 11:06

Don't have this dose than once per day

OP posts:
OohMrDarcy · 15/01/2020 11:07

I'm with hummus on the curtains - however I am NOT GOOD at that type of thing so can't be trusted Grin

Its a gorgeous view mind!

Calledyoulastnightfromglasgow · 15/01/2020 13:28

I’m no expert but bigchoc a wee spray of WD40 is my go to for all these things. Have you got similar in Germany?

Ps nice view!

sparkle789 · 15/01/2020 13:57

Well done to all the fasters over the last few days.
After managing to stay on track Sunday the last 2 days haven’t been good food wise. I’m trying to fast today but I’m finding it really difficult. I know it’s because I’m low as I’m an emotional eater but my god it’s hard. I’m thinking it’s never going to work for me I may as well give up. Despite the fact that I’d lost 8.5lbs in 10 days. I wish I could get out of my own head today.

EssentialHummus · 15/01/2020 14:07

sparkle, drink a pint of water and brush your teeth Flowers.

badger82 · 15/01/2020 14:27

Thanks @bigchoc I'll look forward to that bedtime treat! Grin

badger82 · 15/01/2020 14:50

Struggling so having a cup of hot water and teaspoon of bovril

badger82 · 15/01/2020 16:17

Sabotaged with some cheese. Hopefully curtail the damage by owning up now and may attempt tomorrow instead as will be a semi B2B

BigChocFrenzy · 15/01/2020 16:35

badger Unless that was a huge chunk of cheese, or was accompanied by a lot of bread,
you won't have gone more than 2-300 over at most
Why not call it a decent attempt at an FD, or even a miniFD and move on to an NFD tomorrow

sparkle "lost 8.5lbs in 10 days" is brilliant,
but that rate of loss suggests that you forced yourself to eat below TDEE on NFDs
in which case, that would make you hungrier on FDs

So I recommend that on NFDs you eat up to your full TDEE, but just be sensible about treats - so work on nutritious food to support your body
If you are already doing so, then it is probably just your body trying to adapt and your head trailing behind

On FDs, keep reciting the 5:2 mantra:
"I can have it tomorrow"

OP posts:
badger82 · 15/01/2020 16:39

Yes I needed the mantra. 5 year old was having a strop so I looked to fridge for a mood boost Confused

Whattodowithaminute · 15/01/2020 18:21

Ahhh badger it’s so hard when they are testing you like that-sounds like you’ve achieved a really good miniFD in the worst case scenario.
sparkle that loss is amazing-it clearly is and can continue to work for you-be kind to yourself-it’s a marathon and all that...

Kitchen closed here on 650 for 1FD of b2b, spinach and chickpea curry for dinner tonight (with spare portions for the freezer too!) feeling surprisingly full. Heading to brush teeth, deal with kids then head for bath and early night.

Hope everyone else is doing ok.

harriethoyle · 15/01/2020 18:47

Evening fellow fast gang! Am currently on 368 for the first day of a b2b. Am either going to have a veggie burger no bun or beans on one toast for c.350 tea then have 600 cals left for tomorrow. I was properly HANGRY at 1pm Grin but ok since lunch at half 1... home by 8 I reckon and a late supper should help avoid usual fast side effect of lack of sleep. Fingers crossed!

Well done @what and @badger I think that's a good mini FD

BigChocFrenzy · 15/01/2020 19:01

Well done, what, harriet you both have a good launching pad for FD2

badger You did really well under the circs to just grab a bit of cheese
So call it a win and have your NFD tomorrow

OP posts:
OohMrDarcy · 15/01/2020 19:06

Kitchen closed on 503 tonight

well done all.

BigChocFrenzy · 15/01/2020 19:22

Well done, MrD
Enjoy your NFD tomorrow

OP posts:
aberjenagain · 15/01/2020 19:47

Evenin’ all. B2b done, about 600-650 each day.

Well done mrd, badger, what, harriet and any other fellow fasters today Smile

Hope you managed to get your curtains sorted okay bcf

I am finding FDs and sensible NFDs a struggle to get back into, and the disgusting weather is not helping. I am so over the endless grey damp days. On the plus side I finished all the Christmas chocolate earlier this week so at least it is no longer there to tempt me 🙈Grin

blodynmawr · 15/01/2020 19:58

Been away with work this week so usual routine disrupted.... Have done b2b mini fast days today and yesterday and plan usual FD tomorrow (back in office).
Well done all other Wednesday fasters and mini-fasters Smile

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