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Fasting / 5:2 diet

Talk about intermittent fasting and 5:2, including what’s worked for others. Mumsnet hasn't checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. You may wish to speak to a medical professional before starting any diet.

5:2 Thread number 88: Anyone trying to pull you down is beneath you - come join our friendly & knowledgeable group to BOOST you up to goal

979 replies

BigChocFrenzy · 22/11/2019 00:06

Welcome to the continuing thread for those following 5:2 or other forms of IF (Intermittent Fasting) such as 4:3, ADF, or daily 16:8 Smile

The 5:2 diet was introduced by Michael Mosely on BBC Horizon on August 2012:

Basically it is 2 very low cal days ("fasts") per week - which need not be consecutive - and eat "normally" to maintain on the other 5 days.

For those who have dieted or maybe overeaten for years, eating "normally"
means roughly the number of calories your body needs to maintain - NOT reduce - its weight (see TDEE calculator below).

IMPORTANT
If you have had past diagnosed Eating Disorders or serious MH problems you should NOT do 5:2 or any other kind of fasting

ACRONYMS

16:8 is a different type of fasting, which can be combined with 5:2.
Daily zero-cal fast for 16 hours and eat within an 8 hour window. To lose weight, this needs a weekly calorie deficit as well

4:3 = fast on 3 non-consecutive days per week

ADF (Alternate-Day Fasting) = fast every other day

b2b (optional) back-to-back / consecutive fast days, each with an increased allowance of 650 calories instead of 500

BMI (Body Mass Index) healthy range is 18.5 - 24.9 for Caucasians. Upper limit may be 22 for some of Asian origin.

FD = single Fast Day: aim for 500 calories (600 for men or 25% TDEE whichever is higher) or 1000 cals for BF
No alcohol or junk on FDs
Even if you exercise strenuously, do NOT increase FD cals to allow for exercise

MFP = My Fitness Pal, a useful App or website to track food & drink calories

miniFD = MiniFD, 850- 1000 calories, no alcohol or junk

NFD = Non-Fast Day, averages around TDEE

NSV / LSV = Non Scale Victory / LifeStyle (change) Victory, e.g. compliment, smaller waist, clothes size

SV = Scale Victory

TDEE = Total Daily Energy Expenditure, the average number of calories you burn in a day, is calculated (see calculators below) from your current weight, height, age, activity level.
Aim to average about this for NFDs.

WOE / WOL = Way Of Eating / Way Of Life. We say this instead of "diet", to emphasise that we must make a permanent change in how we eat, to mainitain our new healthy weight longterm.

HOW TO START

. Take initial measurements: weight, waist, hips
. Use TDEE calculator below if you need a rough guide to how much to eat on NFDs
. Choose any 2 days for FDs, non-consecutive is easier.
. Before each FD: plan, shop & calorie count ALL food & drink for the day

Useful Resources & Calculators

Calorie Counter: mfp
Rough Calories for NFD: Mosely TDEE Calc (exercisers: set activity level to one below what you think)
BMI: Calc
Ideal Weight & Body Frame Size: Calc Wt Frame
Body Fat: BFat Calc
Choose / Visualise Goal Weight:
3D BMI body types ripped to normal
Bod Vis Measurements & 3D rotate]]

Safe Alcohol Calc: Calc Units Cals

FD Recipes:
Mosely LowCarb , low carb Diet Doc
BBC Good Food 52 , BBC Good Food 500 cal meals ,
Good2Know , Foodie Under 200 Cals
Vegetarian ,

FD Ready Meals, Fast Food

Any Day:
Meal Planner

FAQs / Tips

  • WATER: Start each day with a glass of water; and drink plenty during the day.
  • HOT DRINKS: No limits on tea or coffee, but on FDs count any milk / sugar calories.
  • SLEEP: Try to get enough sleep, or it may slow weight loss.
  • EXERCISE: is healthy & can help weight loss - BUT only if you do NOT eat back less than you burn. Fasted training can burn more fat.
HIIT and resistance training both work well with 5:2/IF.
  • FDs: If possible, choose days when you are busy, but not preparing meals for others.
Concentrate on protein & veg; avoid sugar or fruit juice. e.g. Stir-fries, soups & stews. Ready meals are OK.
  • BFers: start with 1000-cal FDs, optionally reduce to 700 cals gradually.
You can return to 1000 if growth spurts or sleep-deprivation require more fuel.
  • NFDs: No rules, but to improve health, try to cut down on added sugar & junk food, keep alcohol within safe limits. A few treats per week are fine.
  • Do NOT fast: if you've ever had EDs, or if pregnant, under 21, over-stressed, fever, stomach bug, even a bad cold.
  • CHECK with your Doctor: if you have diabetes, any other endocrine condition, any serious past or present medical condition, or if taking ANY prescribed medication (fasting may affect absorption rate)

Scientific Evidence for Fasting & Health

BBC article on the original Horizon program

Telegraph comments on 5:2 and gives a brief overview by Dr Mosley, useful for newbies.

This InterviewPart1 and InterviewPart2 with leading ADF researcher Dr Varady explains why fasting helps you to lose weight AND improves some health markers.

Fasting boosts "autophagy" = recycling of old cells
Yoshinori Ohsumi won the 2016 Nobel prize for Medicine for research into autophagy
NOBEL Lecture “Autophagy – An Intracellular Recycling System”

Prof. R Taylor (Newcastle Uni) won the 2013 Diabetes UK Banting Prize for his Twin Cycle Hypothesis re the cause of type 2 diabetes: Twin Cycle Hypothesis T2
and showed a fasting diet could reverse T2

Dr Michelle Harvie (funded by cancer charities) showed possible benefits of intermittent fasting compared to standard daily calorie reduction in her trials (consecutive FDs) with women at high risk of breast cancer: ComparingDiets , EarlierResearch52

Dr Johnson showed intermittent fasting helped Asthma

HORMESIS & Why Intermittent Fasting Works: Mattson , BlackSwan and Hormesis

Molecular Mechanisms and Clinical Applications: J CellMetabolism
Recent research into the health benefits of fasting: e.g. by world-respected neuroscientist Dr MarkMattson (Mosely referred to his research) showed:

. Improved glucose regulation
. Loss of abdominal fat with maintenance of muscle mass
. Reduced blood pressure and heart rate
. Improved learning and memory and motor function
. Protection of neurons in the brain against dysfunction and degeneration in animal models of Alzheimer’s disease, Parkinson’s disease, stroke and Huntington’s disease.

Brain metabolism in health, aging, andneurodegeneration :
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

He compared 5:2 to ordinary daily diets on overweight women with family history of breast cancer.
Fasting group lost more belly fat, retained more muscle & had slightly better blood sugar regulation.

More of his research is in HealthyAging , Health , AvoidParkinsonsDisease

His article in J Aging Mech Disease 2015 explains the health benefits of intermittent fasting in great scientific detail.

Why intermittent fasting and stopping snacking can lower your risk of serious diseases:
Meal frequency and timing in health and disease

Fasting can help maintain brain health during aging:
emboj.embopress.org/content/36/11/1474
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

This interview with leading researchers into fasting in combination with standard cancer treatment: ScientificDiscussion MoselyMattsonLongo and a LongoInterview

NY Times Fasting Overview

Research by other US and European scientists in this DailyTelegraph Article about the medicinal uses of fasting, for many serious conditions & diseases.

Recent trials with Type 2 diabetics and those at risk of having it used a form of daily fasting - skipping supper.
Their conclusions: eating 1-2 meals per day is better than several small meals for losing weight and controlling insulin levels, see Type2Paper

OP posts:
Thread gallery
5
Calledyoulastnightfromglasgow · 13/01/2020 18:03

Well done Badger! An early night sounds delightful!

BigChocFrenzy · 13/01/2020 18:49

Hang on, badger !

OP posts:
SydneyCarton · 13/01/2020 22:57

FD finished on 623. A bit higher than I planned, but we had chicken kievs and homemade jam tarts that needed eating Grin. The boiling water tap in the kitchen at work was broken today and didn’t get fixed, so I didn’t drink as much tea today as I usually would.

No real hunger until about 7.30/8 pm, I almost feel I could have done a complete fast on just tea and water. I will probably do this for Good Friday this year.

Hope the other Monday fasters have all had a good day too!

BigChocFrenzy · 13/01/2020 23:11

Well done, sydney

OP posts:
badger82 · 14/01/2020 06:59

Well done Sydney. I did it too. No weight lost on the scales this morning but feel so much better, hopefully post a loss on Thursday after 2nd fast tomorrow
Good luck any Tuesday fasters, so looking forward to breakfast!!

Calledyoulastnightfromglasgow · 14/01/2020 08:10

Homemade jam tarts on a FD?! That would have destroyed me Smile

I finished my Monday fast at a rather high 1100 (aim was 900). But I had a full on active day, a little weight training and no cravings. I’m still at 9’10 so no gains which is good

Good luck Tuesday fasters!

aberjenagain · 14/01/2020 08:24

Morning all - great to see so many nailed FDs and SVs Smile

Checking in for FD1 - hoping to make it b2b, but will see how we go...

moonlight1705 · 14/01/2020 08:33

Morning all, on a FD today so am looking forward to my soup for lunch.

I'm going to do an entire week of MFP so I can check calories, yesterday was 1800 which should be well below my TDEE.

Good luck any other Tuesday fasters.

noseovertail · 14/01/2020 08:45

morning everyone, been quiet over the weekend as was offside (stomach issues) but feeling okay to attempt a FD today.

Just briefly read some posts, well done on all the SVs and NFDs and all the weekend faster Grin and bcf how exciting that you are so close to retirement Envy

Summer15coming · 14/01/2020 13:09

Well done everyone on their FD's. My plans have gone slightly astray; I was going for a B2B as my calories yesterday were 660. On arriving at the office this morning, the sight of a veritable smorgasbord of different Chinese cakes derailed me. I had one sponge cake in lieu of breakfast, so hopefully not too much damage, although too much for a FD!

BigChocFrenzy · 14/01/2020 13:37

Well done on your FD yesterday, summer
Plenty of time this week to have FD2

Well done too, badger
Sometimes the loss shows up on the scales after the 1st NFD - possibly due to slower digestion or water release

Good luck today, aber, moonlight, nose and any other Tuesday fasters

Be careful fasting after stomach problems, nose because if your gut is still sensitive, fasting can restart symptoms

My standard recommendation is to wait at least 5 days after symptoms have gone
and in the meantime do healthy TLC:
nutritious meals with plenty of veg, lots of water all day, but no alcohol or junk

OP posts:
SydneyCarton · 14/01/2020 15:18

Hi badger, I am a Monday and Wednesday faster as well - these are my days in the office so it's a lot easier to fast away from the biscuit tin at home! I'll be weighing in on Thursday as well

Glasgow I managed to stop at one Grin. MFP says they are 80 cals so not too bad - I thought the children would like them but the ungrateful little beasts have declared them "yucky" Angry

Good luck for Tuesday fasters!

PopGoesTheWeaz · 14/01/2020 15:22

day 2 of B2B. Have been mainlining white coffee today which isn't great but will fit within b2b fd allowances. Really helped yesterday that I had all the meal prep done and dusted (for tonight too) so fewer temptations / hurdles to overcome.

I'd like to batch cook some FD ready meals that I can pull out of the freezer. An old standby is a saad butternut squash and paneer curry with brown rice that I weigh out in portions and freeze. Anyone have any similiar ideas? I tend to do b2b so looking for around 450-550 calories

noseovertail · 14/01/2020 16:34

Ah okay, noted bcf I've literally not stopped all day at work and only just over 300cals so I might just carry on with fd and see how I get on. Promise to stop if I feel any discomfort/nausea Smile

Wow that's some restraint there Sydney Smile

BigChocFrenzy · 14/01/2020 16:48

Good luck with your b2b, pop

FD Recipes from the OP:

BBC Good Food 52 , BBC Good Food 500 cal meals , Good2Know

Mosely LowCarb , low carb Diet Doc

Vegetarian

OP posts:
moonlight1705 · 14/01/2020 19:48

Ended the day on 552 so am off to have a nice long shower, brush my teeth and get into pyjamas Smile

Hope you all had a good day.

noseovertail · 14/01/2020 19:52

Well done moon

Fd finished here on 530, cup if tea later but thats it.

BigChocFrenzy · 14/01/2020 19:59

Well done, moon, nose
I suggest you plan an early night, to maximise fasting benefits

OP posts:
moonlight1705 · 14/01/2020 20:04

Sounds good, might just curl up in bed with a book later and have a good sleep. I didn't know it helped fasting though! Excellent excuse Wink

BigChocFrenzy · 14/01/2020 21:15

Yep, I suggest regarding FDs as "self-care" days:

Fasting to give your tum a rest, plenty of water, no junk or booze, plus a good sleep
All enables your body to boost the process of cell regeneration and improve gut health

OP posts:
BigChocFrenzy · 14/01/2020 21:16

FDs are when I have my hair cut - also when I shave legs & pits ! Grin

OP posts:
noseovertail · 14/01/2020 21:24

Ha ha Grin I've just come up to bed, night all!!

Whattodowithaminute · 14/01/2020 21:38

Well done Tuesday fasters, sounds like a good day for you and an early night to top it off is perfect IMO-that’s what I have planned for tomorrow!
FD planned for tomorrow with b2b planned for Thursday-can’t wait for my early night. It’s really positive to think of FD as self care days bcf -I think they are the days I look after myself the most-plan meals, no alcohol, no excessive caffeine and often a bath, face mask and early night...
How is everyone else doing?

badger82 · 15/01/2020 08:32

Morning Wednesday fasters! Feeling positive about today. Thanks for the recipes sources big choc, can anyone remind me how to tag people in these posts? I can't make the names bold

moonlight1705 · 15/01/2020 09:13

To tag you can either put an @ in front of a name i.e. @badger82 or to bold you put a around a name so badger 82 without the spaces will become badger82*

Good luck today and well done nose on your FD yesterday, I had a great sleep and hope you did too Smile