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Fasting / 5:2 diet

Talk about intermittent fasting and 5:2, including what’s worked for others. Mumsnet hasn't checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. You may wish to speak to a medical professional before starting any diet.

5:2 Thread number 88: Anyone trying to pull you down is beneath you - come join our friendly & knowledgeable group to BOOST you up to goal

979 replies

BigChocFrenzy · 22/11/2019 00:06

Welcome to the continuing thread for those following 5:2 or other forms of IF (Intermittent Fasting) such as 4:3, ADF, or daily 16:8 Smile

The 5:2 diet was introduced by Michael Mosely on BBC Horizon on August 2012:

Basically it is 2 very low cal days ("fasts") per week - which need not be consecutive - and eat "normally" to maintain on the other 5 days.

For those who have dieted or maybe overeaten for years, eating "normally"
means roughly the number of calories your body needs to maintain - NOT reduce - its weight (see TDEE calculator below).

IMPORTANT
If you have had past diagnosed Eating Disorders or serious MH problems you should NOT do 5:2 or any other kind of fasting

ACRONYMS

16:8 is a different type of fasting, which can be combined with 5:2.
Daily zero-cal fast for 16 hours and eat within an 8 hour window. To lose weight, this needs a weekly calorie deficit as well

4:3 = fast on 3 non-consecutive days per week

ADF (Alternate-Day Fasting) = fast every other day

b2b (optional) back-to-back / consecutive fast days, each with an increased allowance of 650 calories instead of 500

BMI (Body Mass Index) healthy range is 18.5 - 24.9 for Caucasians. Upper limit may be 22 for some of Asian origin.

FD = single Fast Day: aim for 500 calories (600 for men or 25% TDEE whichever is higher) or 1000 cals for BF
No alcohol or junk on FDs
Even if you exercise strenuously, do NOT increase FD cals to allow for exercise

MFP = My Fitness Pal, a useful App or website to track food & drink calories

miniFD = MiniFD, 850- 1000 calories, no alcohol or junk

NFD = Non-Fast Day, averages around TDEE

NSV / LSV = Non Scale Victory / LifeStyle (change) Victory, e.g. compliment, smaller waist, clothes size

SV = Scale Victory

TDEE = Total Daily Energy Expenditure, the average number of calories you burn in a day, is calculated (see calculators below) from your current weight, height, age, activity level.
Aim to average about this for NFDs.

WOE / WOL = Way Of Eating / Way Of Life. We say this instead of "diet", to emphasise that we must make a permanent change in how we eat, to mainitain our new healthy weight longterm.

HOW TO START

. Take initial measurements: weight, waist, hips
. Use TDEE calculator below if you need a rough guide to how much to eat on NFDs
. Choose any 2 days for FDs, non-consecutive is easier.
. Before each FD: plan, shop & calorie count ALL food & drink for the day

Useful Resources & Calculators

Calorie Counter: mfp
Rough Calories for NFD: Mosely TDEE Calc (exercisers: set activity level to one below what you think)
BMI: Calc
Ideal Weight & Body Frame Size: Calc Wt Frame
Body Fat: BFat Calc
Choose / Visualise Goal Weight:
3D BMI body types ripped to normal
Bod Vis Measurements & 3D rotate]]

Safe Alcohol Calc: Calc Units Cals

FD Recipes:
Mosely LowCarb , low carb Diet Doc
BBC Good Food 52 , BBC Good Food 500 cal meals ,
Good2Know , Foodie Under 200 Cals
Vegetarian ,

FD Ready Meals, Fast Food

Any Day:
Meal Planner

FAQs / Tips

  • WATER: Start each day with a glass of water; and drink plenty during the day.
  • HOT DRINKS: No limits on tea or coffee, but on FDs count any milk / sugar calories.
  • SLEEP: Try to get enough sleep, or it may slow weight loss.
  • EXERCISE: is healthy & can help weight loss - BUT only if you do NOT eat back less than you burn. Fasted training can burn more fat.
HIIT and resistance training both work well with 5:2/IF.
  • FDs: If possible, choose days when you are busy, but not preparing meals for others.
Concentrate on protein & veg; avoid sugar or fruit juice. e.g. Stir-fries, soups & stews. Ready meals are OK.
  • BFers: start with 1000-cal FDs, optionally reduce to 700 cals gradually.
You can return to 1000 if growth spurts or sleep-deprivation require more fuel.
  • NFDs: No rules, but to improve health, try to cut down on added sugar & junk food, keep alcohol within safe limits. A few treats per week are fine.
  • Do NOT fast: if you've ever had EDs, or if pregnant, under 21, over-stressed, fever, stomach bug, even a bad cold.
  • CHECK with your Doctor: if you have diabetes, any other endocrine condition, any serious past or present medical condition, or if taking ANY prescribed medication (fasting may affect absorption rate)

Scientific Evidence for Fasting & Health

BBC article on the original Horizon program

Telegraph comments on 5:2 and gives a brief overview by Dr Mosley, useful for newbies.

This InterviewPart1 and InterviewPart2 with leading ADF researcher Dr Varady explains why fasting helps you to lose weight AND improves some health markers.

Fasting boosts "autophagy" = recycling of old cells
Yoshinori Ohsumi won the 2016 Nobel prize for Medicine for research into autophagy
NOBEL Lecture “Autophagy – An Intracellular Recycling System”

Prof. R Taylor (Newcastle Uni) won the 2013 Diabetes UK Banting Prize for his Twin Cycle Hypothesis re the cause of type 2 diabetes: Twin Cycle Hypothesis T2
and showed a fasting diet could reverse T2

Dr Michelle Harvie (funded by cancer charities) showed possible benefits of intermittent fasting compared to standard daily calorie reduction in her trials (consecutive FDs) with women at high risk of breast cancer: ComparingDiets , EarlierResearch52

Dr Johnson showed intermittent fasting helped Asthma

HORMESIS & Why Intermittent Fasting Works: Mattson , BlackSwan and Hormesis

Molecular Mechanisms and Clinical Applications: J CellMetabolism
Recent research into the health benefits of fasting: e.g. by world-respected neuroscientist Dr MarkMattson (Mosely referred to his research) showed:

. Improved glucose regulation
. Loss of abdominal fat with maintenance of muscle mass
. Reduced blood pressure and heart rate
. Improved learning and memory and motor function
. Protection of neurons in the brain against dysfunction and degeneration in animal models of Alzheimer’s disease, Parkinson’s disease, stroke and Huntington’s disease.

Brain metabolism in health, aging, andneurodegeneration :
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

He compared 5:2 to ordinary daily diets on overweight women with family history of breast cancer.
Fasting group lost more belly fat, retained more muscle & had slightly better blood sugar regulation.

More of his research is in HealthyAging , Health , AvoidParkinsonsDisease

His article in J Aging Mech Disease 2015 explains the health benefits of intermittent fasting in great scientific detail.

Why intermittent fasting and stopping snacking can lower your risk of serious diseases:
Meal frequency and timing in health and disease

Fasting can help maintain brain health during aging:
emboj.embopress.org/content/36/11/1474
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

This interview with leading researchers into fasting in combination with standard cancer treatment: ScientificDiscussion MoselyMattsonLongo and a LongoInterview

NY Times Fasting Overview

Research by other US and European scientists in this DailyTelegraph Article about the medicinal uses of fasting, for many serious conditions & diseases.

Recent trials with Type 2 diabetics and those at risk of having it used a form of daily fasting - skipping supper.
Their conclusions: eating 1-2 meals per day is better than several small meals for losing weight and controlling insulin levels, see Type2Paper

OP posts:
Thread gallery
5
BigChocFrenzy · 10/01/2020 18:59

Welcome, summer 🙂
Best wishes to your poorly DC 💐
So tough for you coping with hospitals

Well done, MrD

Glasgow I suggested you do miniFDs instead and 1000 cals would fit that Smile

OP posts:
BigChocFrenzy · 10/01/2020 19:00

Well done nose
600 cals with the chicken is fine

OP posts:
Calledyoulastnightfromglasgow · 10/01/2020 23:09

Lots of love coping with hospitals. My eldest was in and out when little and I found it highly stressful Flowers

Yes - I took your advice BigChoc and it worked the proverbial treat. So I’m sticking with two MFD a week on days I’m not doing heavy exercise. I have put on a little weight but my body feels happy with that so leaving it for now!

Good luck to those on a FD on Saturday

BigChocFrenzy · 11/01/2020 08:39

Morning all
looking down on a lovely sunny Rhine, Smile so I'm going for a walk shortly
Pump class this afternoon

I'm fasting today, might turn it into my first b2b of the year
Any other Saturday fasters ?

Sounds like you have your WOL sorted, glasgow

OP posts:
moonlight1705 · 11/01/2020 10:45

Had a very nice 1lb loss this week which am pleased with. If I lose just 1lb a week then by Easter that is a stone gone.

BigChocFrenzy · 11/01/2020 13:21

Congratulations on your SV, moonlight
That's encouraging progress for you

OP posts:
noseovertail · 11/01/2020 15:23

Hope you enjoyed your walk in the sunshine bcf grey and miserable here in the northwest

Well done on your sv moon Grin

BigChocFrenzy · 11/01/2020 21:54

I just needed a fleece, no coat
The coming week will get up to 15C Shock maybe just a long-sleeved T for my walk then

OP posts:
EssentialHummus · 12/01/2020 09:26

Signing in for a Sunday FD - will catch up with the thread later

Whattodowithaminute · 12/01/2020 12:20

Well done moonlight.

Sounds glorious bigchoc the weather is just turning nicely in time for retirement-how many more days?!!

Good luck today hummus
I ate too much yesterday-we went out for the day and ended up with a shop bought sandwich for lunch at 550 calories which was the bomb for the day. Started this morning with a swim and will try for a 1500 day which will give me a bit in the bank to adjust for yesterday.
Hope everyone ok

BigChocFrenzy · 12/01/2020 16:13

Good luck, hummus

what with leave for the last week of Jan, I've only 10 more workdays until retirement
< skips for joy ! 😁 >

I'm holding a big pizza & salad party for the whole department (90 people) at lunchtime my final workday, 24 Jan.

A week later, on my official last day, I'm treating just my team at my fav Rhine bistro, which is just 300m from my flat
Both are v lazy dos, you will note, just buying it all in for minimum effort on my side !

OP posts:
Whattodowithaminute · 12/01/2020 17:52

Wow not long until you’re on single figures bigchoc spins well deserved and buying your way to an easy life is worth it in these situations. Hope your holding up ok with the household renovations too!

harriethoyle · 12/01/2020 18:07

Hi guys! Waves @BigChocFrenzy and @EssentialHummus and all the PPs I recognise!

I'm back. I've got 7kg to lose after an amazing christmas and new year and holiday. IF tomorrow and Tuesday, B2B Wednesday and Thursday.

Bring. It. On.

(Or Off!)

Summer15coming · 12/01/2020 18:42

Wow @BigChocFrenzy - that's really exciting!

How has everyone's weekend been? I tend to do NFD over the weekend as I tend to find it hard to fast when I have time on my hands. I was pleased with a 400 deficit yesterday, but have certainly made the most of my budget today!

sparkle789 · 12/01/2020 19:05

Fd for me today. It’s been incredibly difficult I went to visit my grandad who is ill this morning, it was very upsetting and I felt quite stressed. My usual reaction is to comfort eat so I’ve had to work really hard at not doing that. So although it’s been hard I’m proud of myself for not falling into old habits.

BigChocFrenzy · 12/01/2020 19:58

You're doing really well not to comfort eat, sparkle
It's so upsetting seeing very frail and ill grandparents or parents

That sounds a good WE, summer

I'll be living with some of the boxes until early March, what when new cupboards arrive
I think they must be growing the damn trees first

Welcome back, harriet
You sound full of energy and determination

OP posts:
EssentialHummus · 12/01/2020 20:45

Hello harriet, nice to see you!

big choc those sound like lovely celebrations to mark your retirement.

sparkle and summer it sounds like you have both done well.

I brushed my teeth about an hour ago to ward off temptation. Lunch was a stir fry, dinner an egg with grilled tomato and mushrooms. And then coffee.

Wishing all Monday fasters well - I may b2b, let's see what state the scales are in tomorrow!

BigChocFrenzy · 12/01/2020 21:47

Well done on your Sunday FD, Hummus

OP posts:
SydneyCarton · 12/01/2020 23:08

Sorry about your grandad sparkle and well done for resisting the comfort eating

Very impressed by the weekend fasters. I like the idea but with three small children to wrangle at the weekend I need calories! I got an Apple Watch for Christmas and the first time I wore it on my day off with the children I broke my record for active calories burned and my step count. So much easier to fast on a relatively sedentary day in the office.

Gave myself the weekend off tracking on MFP and had a lovely Saturday meeting friends for a museum visit and shopping. Tons of walking and some very nice but non-junky food and drink (blackcurrant pavlova with homemade marshmallows, 😋) so it feels pretty balanced. Back on it tomorrow for a Monday FD

badger82 · 13/01/2020 10:45

Checking in after a LONG time away. On a fast day today. Have 9kg to lose to get to goal, 3 to get back into my healthy happy zone Smile

harriethoyle · 13/01/2020 11:19

@badger82 we are almost fast goal twins! Good luck today Grin

PopGoesTheWeaz · 13/01/2020 11:20

waiving hello as is a FD. HAven't had a chance to look into the Paul McKenna, but must say dry january is helping. Weekends look very different without long boozy lunches. Before holidays and time off fasting, I had plateaued as I was fasting two days a week, eating sensibly 3 but rules out the window on the weekend. Will need to rethink this once down to goal weight again this time as even if I don't need to lose more, I can't imagine it's very good for my health

badger82 · 13/01/2020 11:21

Thanks Harriet, I'm going to try to hold out until after school run at 4, then have salmon chickpeas and cous cous. Then I've got PT then I'll eat Thai prawn salad with husband at about 9pm.......haven't actually managed a proper fast day for months. Today IS THE DAY.

BigChocFrenzy · 13/01/2020 13:01

Welcome back, badger

Good luck on your FD, badger, pop, Sydney and any other Monday fasters
Are you fasting too, harriet ?

pop You were probably plateauing because the excess food & booze at weekends used up your calorie deficit from the 2 FDs

Particularly easy to do when you are near goal, because your TDEE automatically would be lower than before - because of the lower weight

If you had written down or mfped your WE intake, you would probably have been shocked - alcohol tends to be accompanied by nibbles and a lot of food that day and / or the next

OP posts:
badger82 · 13/01/2020 17:02

Am nearly there! Just got to fight the urges until bath/bed for kids then PT then FOOD then sleep. Might have a marmite in water