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Fasting / 5:2 diet

Talk about intermittent fasting and 5:2, including what’s worked for others. Mumsnet hasn't checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. You may wish to speak to a medical professional before starting any diet.

5:2 Thread number 88: Anyone trying to pull you down is beneath you - come join our friendly & knowledgeable group to BOOST you up to goal

979 replies

BigChocFrenzy · 22/11/2019 00:06

Welcome to the continuing thread for those following 5:2 or other forms of IF (Intermittent Fasting) such as 4:3, ADF, or daily 16:8 Smile

The 5:2 diet was introduced by Michael Mosely on BBC Horizon on August 2012:

Basically it is 2 very low cal days ("fasts") per week - which need not be consecutive - and eat "normally" to maintain on the other 5 days.

For those who have dieted or maybe overeaten for years, eating "normally"
means roughly the number of calories your body needs to maintain - NOT reduce - its weight (see TDEE calculator below).

IMPORTANT
If you have had past diagnosed Eating Disorders or serious MH problems you should NOT do 5:2 or any other kind of fasting

ACRONYMS

16:8 is a different type of fasting, which can be combined with 5:2.
Daily zero-cal fast for 16 hours and eat within an 8 hour window. To lose weight, this needs a weekly calorie deficit as well

4:3 = fast on 3 non-consecutive days per week

ADF (Alternate-Day Fasting) = fast every other day

b2b (optional) back-to-back / consecutive fast days, each with an increased allowance of 650 calories instead of 500

BMI (Body Mass Index) healthy range is 18.5 - 24.9 for Caucasians. Upper limit may be 22 for some of Asian origin.

FD = single Fast Day: aim for 500 calories (600 for men or 25% TDEE whichever is higher) or 1000 cals for BF
No alcohol or junk on FDs
Even if you exercise strenuously, do NOT increase FD cals to allow for exercise

MFP = My Fitness Pal, a useful App or website to track food & drink calories

miniFD = MiniFD, 850- 1000 calories, no alcohol or junk

NFD = Non-Fast Day, averages around TDEE

NSV / LSV = Non Scale Victory / LifeStyle (change) Victory, e.g. compliment, smaller waist, clothes size

SV = Scale Victory

TDEE = Total Daily Energy Expenditure, the average number of calories you burn in a day, is calculated (see calculators below) from your current weight, height, age, activity level.
Aim to average about this for NFDs.

WOE / WOL = Way Of Eating / Way Of Life. We say this instead of "diet", to emphasise that we must make a permanent change in how we eat, to mainitain our new healthy weight longterm.

HOW TO START

. Take initial measurements: weight, waist, hips
. Use TDEE calculator below if you need a rough guide to how much to eat on NFDs
. Choose any 2 days for FDs, non-consecutive is easier.
. Before each FD: plan, shop & calorie count ALL food & drink for the day

Useful Resources & Calculators

Calorie Counter: mfp
Rough Calories for NFD: Mosely TDEE Calc (exercisers: set activity level to one below what you think)
BMI: Calc
Ideal Weight & Body Frame Size: Calc Wt Frame
Body Fat: BFat Calc
Choose / Visualise Goal Weight:
3D BMI body types ripped to normal
Bod Vis Measurements & 3D rotate]]

Safe Alcohol Calc: Calc Units Cals

FD Recipes:
Mosely LowCarb , low carb Diet Doc
BBC Good Food 52 , BBC Good Food 500 cal meals ,
Good2Know , Foodie Under 200 Cals
Vegetarian ,

FD Ready Meals, Fast Food

Any Day:
Meal Planner

FAQs / Tips

  • WATER: Start each day with a glass of water; and drink plenty during the day.
  • HOT DRINKS: No limits on tea or coffee, but on FDs count any milk / sugar calories.
  • SLEEP: Try to get enough sleep, or it may slow weight loss.
  • EXERCISE: is healthy & can help weight loss - BUT only if you do NOT eat back less than you burn. Fasted training can burn more fat.
HIIT and resistance training both work well with 5:2/IF.
  • FDs: If possible, choose days when you are busy, but not preparing meals for others.
Concentrate on protein & veg; avoid sugar or fruit juice. e.g. Stir-fries, soups & stews. Ready meals are OK.
  • BFers: start with 1000-cal FDs, optionally reduce to 700 cals gradually.
You can return to 1000 if growth spurts or sleep-deprivation require more fuel.
  • NFDs: No rules, but to improve health, try to cut down on added sugar & junk food, keep alcohol within safe limits. A few treats per week are fine.
  • Do NOT fast: if you've ever had EDs, or if pregnant, under 21, over-stressed, fever, stomach bug, even a bad cold.
  • CHECK with your Doctor: if you have diabetes, any other endocrine condition, any serious past or present medical condition, or if taking ANY prescribed medication (fasting may affect absorption rate)

Scientific Evidence for Fasting & Health

BBC article on the original Horizon program

Telegraph comments on 5:2 and gives a brief overview by Dr Mosley, useful for newbies.

This InterviewPart1 and InterviewPart2 with leading ADF researcher Dr Varady explains why fasting helps you to lose weight AND improves some health markers.

Fasting boosts "autophagy" = recycling of old cells
Yoshinori Ohsumi won the 2016 Nobel prize for Medicine for research into autophagy
NOBEL Lecture “Autophagy – An Intracellular Recycling System”

Prof. R Taylor (Newcastle Uni) won the 2013 Diabetes UK Banting Prize for his Twin Cycle Hypothesis re the cause of type 2 diabetes: Twin Cycle Hypothesis T2
and showed a fasting diet could reverse T2

Dr Michelle Harvie (funded by cancer charities) showed possible benefits of intermittent fasting compared to standard daily calorie reduction in her trials (consecutive FDs) with women at high risk of breast cancer: ComparingDiets , EarlierResearch52

Dr Johnson showed intermittent fasting helped Asthma

HORMESIS & Why Intermittent Fasting Works: Mattson , BlackSwan and Hormesis

Molecular Mechanisms and Clinical Applications: J CellMetabolism
Recent research into the health benefits of fasting: e.g. by world-respected neuroscientist Dr MarkMattson (Mosely referred to his research) showed:

. Improved glucose regulation
. Loss of abdominal fat with maintenance of muscle mass
. Reduced blood pressure and heart rate
. Improved learning and memory and motor function
. Protection of neurons in the brain against dysfunction and degeneration in animal models of Alzheimer’s disease, Parkinson’s disease, stroke and Huntington’s disease.

Brain metabolism in health, aging, andneurodegeneration :
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

He compared 5:2 to ordinary daily diets on overweight women with family history of breast cancer.
Fasting group lost more belly fat, retained more muscle & had slightly better blood sugar regulation.

More of his research is in HealthyAging , Health , AvoidParkinsonsDisease

His article in J Aging Mech Disease 2015 explains the health benefits of intermittent fasting in great scientific detail.

Why intermittent fasting and stopping snacking can lower your risk of serious diseases:
Meal frequency and timing in health and disease

Fasting can help maintain brain health during aging:
emboj.embopress.org/content/36/11/1474
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

This interview with leading researchers into fasting in combination with standard cancer treatment: ScientificDiscussion MoselyMattsonLongo and a LongoInterview

NY Times Fasting Overview

Research by other US and European scientists in this DailyTelegraph Article about the medicinal uses of fasting, for many serious conditions & diseases.

Recent trials with Type 2 diabetics and those at risk of having it used a form of daily fasting - skipping supper.
Their conclusions: eating 1-2 meals per day is better than several small meals for losing weight and controlling insulin levels, see Type2Paper

OP posts:
Thread gallery
5
Whattodowithaminute · 09/01/2020 18:20

Gosh I don’t know how I missed your SV report this morning sydney apologies and well done you! That must feel so good.

Kitchen closed on 550 here. How are you doing hummus and moonlight?

BigChocFrenzy · 09/01/2020 20:02

Well done on your FD, what

You are nearly finished, fasters
Then why not have an early night, to maximise fasting benefits and get ready for the WE

OP posts:
blodynmawr · 09/01/2020 20:45

Thanks @BigChocFrenzy, it is the NFDs that need focus!
FD again today, approx 600 cals
Well done all other Thursday fastersSmile

EssentialHummus · 09/01/2020 20:53

Well done what, blodyn. Kitchen closed here and teeth brushed to keep me on the straight and narrow. I had a stir fry at lunch and then a scrambled egg with grilled tomato for dinner, and a few coffees here and there.

PopGoesTheWeaz · 09/01/2020 21:14

ha! thanks for the tip Hoghgyni -- I'll keep that in mind. Actually DH is finding it impossible to fall asleep lately so maybe we can kill two birds with one stone

noseovertail · 09/01/2020 21:22

Well done fasters Smile

Just got back from zumba, inhaled my chicken salad and treated myself to a toasted tea cake with butter and I still have 174cals left to bank for sat. Fd tomorrow, need to think what's on the menu though...

BigChocFrenzy · 09/01/2020 23:18

Well done, Blodyn, Hummus

OP posts:
moonlight1705 · 10/01/2020 07:16

Fell asleep before saying I finished on 594 yesterday.

Well done everyone else Smile

BigChocFrenzy · 10/01/2020 08:42

Well done, moonlight

and good luck to the Friday fasters

OP posts:
aberjenagain · 10/01/2020 08:52

Checking in for Friday FD.

Well done on yesterday’s FDs moonlight, hummus, what, and blodyn

OohMrDarcy · 10/01/2020 09:23

Morning all

checking in for my FD here, got left over chicken casserole in the fridge for later and I can't wait because it was bloody delicious. Water bottle by my side and I'm good to go.

Good luck nose and anyone else joining me!

noseovertail · 10/01/2020 09:27

morning everyone,

fd going good so far (I know its still early but I've actually been up and about since 5.30am so seems a long time for me) just coffee / tea so far. I have a turkey salad from Subway and a sugar free jelly for lunch, not sure yet re: dinner, maybe omelette or stir fry veg with a bit of chicken.......hankering after a chicken casserole now though mrd Grin

Good luck friday fasters!

OohMrDarcy · 10/01/2020 10:42

Haha sorry nose!

Summer15coming · 10/01/2020 11:22

Hi everyone. I'm an on/off 5:2'er and have had success with it in the past. I've been back to it since 1st Jan, and so far I'm feeling good!

I was wondering whether anyone has any lunch inspiration for me today? It's my second FD of the week and I haven't meal planned or eaten yet. I'm at work, so have small supermarkets (Sainsbo and M&S) and cafés, plus a microwave at my disposal. Any ideas?

Summer15coming · 10/01/2020 11:49

I just wanted to send my sympathies to you, @PanemEtCircenses. I also spend a great deal of time in and out of hospital with one of my children, and I too have noticed how difficult it is to lose or even maintain weight whilst in hospital. I don't really have any tips - it's just hard. It's all the sitting around getting bored, but you are unable to take your mind off it by getting stuck into any hobby/activity due to supporting your child, and all the medical interruptions even when they're nicely engaged in something. And the need to exist only on ready meals or what's available in the hospital concourse. I hope you and your child are doing well at the moment.

moonlight1705 · 10/01/2020 12:35

I tend to get the soups from Sainsbury Summer - the Glorious Skinny Butternut soup is only 86 calories for half a pot and its lovely.

aberjenagain · 10/01/2020 14:09

Welcome summer and sorry to hear you have such a poorly child - such a lot to contend with Flowers

On the lunch front, I’ve just made a passable hot and sour soup with bits from M&S plus kettle and sharp knife - lemongrass, chilli, ginger, veg stock cube, spring onions, mangetout, juice of half a lime (most important bit tbh!), soy sauce, a pack of cooked prawns and some straight-to-wok rice noodles. A bit excessive for an office lunch but I had a real hankering! Could be made lighter by omitting the prawns and/or noodles (I reckon it came in around 275-300 cals, of which 140 was prawns, and 100 was noodles).

I’ll end up on about 600 today - having teriyaki salmon with pak Choi for tea.

noseovertail · 10/01/2020 15:19

Welcome summer hope you managed to source something tasty for lunch.
aber that sounds delicious but very expensive Shock

Just picked up some lovely mixed exotic mushrooms from a veg stall but no idea on calories, any ideas? Also, any yummy ideas what to do with them (fd friendly) Smile

moonlight1705 · 10/01/2020 16:16

I think mushrooms are roughly the same calories no matter the type but I'm sure someone else might have a better idea. They are very good bang for your buck in terms of low calories but high nutrients.

My Dsis has married someone Chinese and his mother did an amazing mushroom dish where they were sliced and cooked into a type of stock with spring onion and chilli then drained and toasted sesame & oil and chilli flakes added after plus soy to taste. I don't think that would be too bad especially if you took out the sesame oil.

Summer15coming · 10/01/2020 16:56

Thanks for the welcome!

Soup is my go-to - I really like it and it does seem to fill me up. I will definitely be trying the butternut one. Today I had a bit of a need for something different, so ended up with a ham and egg salad accompanied by the M&S mango and mangetout little salad pot. @aberjenagain - that sounds very impressive and also delicious!

noseovertail · 10/01/2020 17:30

Ooh moon that sounds amazing.... yes, i knew mushrooms were low cal just wasnt sure about all these different ones, I might stir fry with some ginger, soy and chilli and maybe some chicken, looking forward to them!

Sounds like you made a good choice summer

I've picked up some new cleanser and face mask on way home so will occupy myself later with that whilst thinking about the wonderful veggie meze and some lovely wine I'm going to have tomorrow night Grin I'm trying to get dh and ds to eat less meat!

Happy Friday everyone Smile

Calledyoulastnightfromglasgow · 10/01/2020 18:07

Soup is my go to as well. I add extra water and it does fill me up. I have an oatcake with it.

I have had my first FD for a while today. NFD. I am prob around 1000 calories which is pathetic compared to everyone on here but just still focusing on resetting after Xmas and getting the mindful eating back.

Mushrooms are great. I have done a few lovely mushroom soups with just stock and water.

noseovertail · 10/01/2020 18:12

Mushrooms were delicious Smile I'm coming in at around 600cals, slightly more than I'd hoped but I needed some chicken with dinner.

Hope all the other fri fasters are doing well

OohMrDarcy · 10/01/2020 18:47

Kitchen closed on 514 here

80skid · 10/01/2020 18:47

Hey Friday fasters!! My day went better than I expected (I do crave bad food at that time of the month) but I have yet to eat anything. I'm thinking scrambled eggs and some sort of veggies for tea, although seeing as I didn't eat with the kids, that won't be until after 8 now.... it could be a long couple of hours. How's everyone else?

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