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Fasting / 5:2 diet

Talk about intermittent fasting and 5:2, including what’s worked for others. Mumsnet hasn't checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. You may wish to speak to a medical professional before starting any diet.

5:2 Thread number 88: Anyone trying to pull you down is beneath you - come join our friendly & knowledgeable group to BOOST you up to goal

979 replies

BigChocFrenzy · 22/11/2019 00:06

Welcome to the continuing thread for those following 5:2 or other forms of IF (Intermittent Fasting) such as 4:3, ADF, or daily 16:8 Smile

The 5:2 diet was introduced by Michael Mosely on BBC Horizon on August 2012:

Basically it is 2 very low cal days ("fasts") per week - which need not be consecutive - and eat "normally" to maintain on the other 5 days.

For those who have dieted or maybe overeaten for years, eating "normally"
means roughly the number of calories your body needs to maintain - NOT reduce - its weight (see TDEE calculator below).

IMPORTANT
If you have had past diagnosed Eating Disorders or serious MH problems you should NOT do 5:2 or any other kind of fasting

ACRONYMS

16:8 is a different type of fasting, which can be combined with 5:2.
Daily zero-cal fast for 16 hours and eat within an 8 hour window. To lose weight, this needs a weekly calorie deficit as well

4:3 = fast on 3 non-consecutive days per week

ADF (Alternate-Day Fasting) = fast every other day

b2b (optional) back-to-back / consecutive fast days, each with an increased allowance of 650 calories instead of 500

BMI (Body Mass Index) healthy range is 18.5 - 24.9 for Caucasians. Upper limit may be 22 for some of Asian origin.

FD = single Fast Day: aim for 500 calories (600 for men or 25% TDEE whichever is higher) or 1000 cals for BF
No alcohol or junk on FDs
Even if you exercise strenuously, do NOT increase FD cals to allow for exercise

MFP = My Fitness Pal, a useful App or website to track food & drink calories

miniFD = MiniFD, 850- 1000 calories, no alcohol or junk

NFD = Non-Fast Day, averages around TDEE

NSV / LSV = Non Scale Victory / LifeStyle (change) Victory, e.g. compliment, smaller waist, clothes size

SV = Scale Victory

TDEE = Total Daily Energy Expenditure, the average number of calories you burn in a day, is calculated (see calculators below) from your current weight, height, age, activity level.
Aim to average about this for NFDs.

WOE / WOL = Way Of Eating / Way Of Life. We say this instead of "diet", to emphasise that we must make a permanent change in how we eat, to mainitain our new healthy weight longterm.

HOW TO START

. Take initial measurements: weight, waist, hips
. Use TDEE calculator below if you need a rough guide to how much to eat on NFDs
. Choose any 2 days for FDs, non-consecutive is easier.
. Before each FD: plan, shop & calorie count ALL food & drink for the day

Useful Resources & Calculators

Calorie Counter: mfp
Rough Calories for NFD: Mosely TDEE Calc (exercisers: set activity level to one below what you think)
BMI: Calc
Ideal Weight & Body Frame Size: Calc Wt Frame
Body Fat: BFat Calc
Choose / Visualise Goal Weight:
3D BMI body types ripped to normal
Bod Vis Measurements & 3D rotate]]

Safe Alcohol Calc: Calc Units Cals

FD Recipes:
Mosely LowCarb , low carb Diet Doc
BBC Good Food 52 , BBC Good Food 500 cal meals ,
Good2Know , Foodie Under 200 Cals
Vegetarian ,

FD Ready Meals, Fast Food

Any Day:
Meal Planner

FAQs / Tips

  • WATER: Start each day with a glass of water; and drink plenty during the day.
  • HOT DRINKS: No limits on tea or coffee, but on FDs count any milk / sugar calories.
  • SLEEP: Try to get enough sleep, or it may slow weight loss.
  • EXERCISE: is healthy & can help weight loss - BUT only if you do NOT eat back less than you burn. Fasted training can burn more fat.
HIIT and resistance training both work well with 5:2/IF.
  • FDs: If possible, choose days when you are busy, but not preparing meals for others.
Concentrate on protein & veg; avoid sugar or fruit juice. e.g. Stir-fries, soups & stews. Ready meals are OK.
  • BFers: start with 1000-cal FDs, optionally reduce to 700 cals gradually.
You can return to 1000 if growth spurts or sleep-deprivation require more fuel.
  • NFDs: No rules, but to improve health, try to cut down on added sugar & junk food, keep alcohol within safe limits. A few treats per week are fine.
  • Do NOT fast: if you've ever had EDs, or if pregnant, under 21, over-stressed, fever, stomach bug, even a bad cold.
  • CHECK with your Doctor: if you have diabetes, any other endocrine condition, any serious past or present medical condition, or if taking ANY prescribed medication (fasting may affect absorption rate)

Scientific Evidence for Fasting & Health

BBC article on the original Horizon program

Telegraph comments on 5:2 and gives a brief overview by Dr Mosley, useful for newbies.

This InterviewPart1 and InterviewPart2 with leading ADF researcher Dr Varady explains why fasting helps you to lose weight AND improves some health markers.

Fasting boosts "autophagy" = recycling of old cells
Yoshinori Ohsumi won the 2016 Nobel prize for Medicine for research into autophagy
NOBEL Lecture “Autophagy – An Intracellular Recycling System”

Prof. R Taylor (Newcastle Uni) won the 2013 Diabetes UK Banting Prize for his Twin Cycle Hypothesis re the cause of type 2 diabetes: Twin Cycle Hypothesis T2
and showed a fasting diet could reverse T2

Dr Michelle Harvie (funded by cancer charities) showed possible benefits of intermittent fasting compared to standard daily calorie reduction in her trials (consecutive FDs) with women at high risk of breast cancer: ComparingDiets , EarlierResearch52

Dr Johnson showed intermittent fasting helped Asthma

HORMESIS & Why Intermittent Fasting Works: Mattson , BlackSwan and Hormesis

Molecular Mechanisms and Clinical Applications: J CellMetabolism
Recent research into the health benefits of fasting: e.g. by world-respected neuroscientist Dr MarkMattson (Mosely referred to his research) showed:

. Improved glucose regulation
. Loss of abdominal fat with maintenance of muscle mass
. Reduced blood pressure and heart rate
. Improved learning and memory and motor function
. Protection of neurons in the brain against dysfunction and degeneration in animal models of Alzheimer’s disease, Parkinson’s disease, stroke and Huntington’s disease.

Brain metabolism in health, aging, andneurodegeneration :
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

He compared 5:2 to ordinary daily diets on overweight women with family history of breast cancer.
Fasting group lost more belly fat, retained more muscle & had slightly better blood sugar regulation.

More of his research is in HealthyAging , Health , AvoidParkinsonsDisease

His article in J Aging Mech Disease 2015 explains the health benefits of intermittent fasting in great scientific detail.

Why intermittent fasting and stopping snacking can lower your risk of serious diseases:
Meal frequency and timing in health and disease

Fasting can help maintain brain health during aging:
emboj.embopress.org/content/36/11/1474
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

This interview with leading researchers into fasting in combination with standard cancer treatment: ScientificDiscussion MoselyMattsonLongo and a LongoInterview

NY Times Fasting Overview

Research by other US and European scientists in this DailyTelegraph Article about the medicinal uses of fasting, for many serious conditions & diseases.

Recent trials with Type 2 diabetics and those at risk of having it used a form of daily fasting - skipping supper.
Their conclusions: eating 1-2 meals per day is better than several small meals for losing weight and controlling insulin levels, see Type2Paper

OP posts:
Thread gallery
5
BigChocFrenzy · 08/01/2020 11:49

Very sorry to hear about your breakup, duck
and then going through a 2nd house move so soon, how rotten for you 💐
Vent here whenever you went

Congratulations on pre-Xmas weight, what
On to the next milestone !

Congratulations too on your SV, nose
That's good you're finding this WOL so doable

Welcome back, pop
I don't know anything about Paul McKenna, but Mosely (and we) srongly recommend
no snacking or grazing between meals,
so there would be a clash if Mckenna recommends / allows this

OP posts:
aberjenagain · 08/01/2020 13:46

Oh duck how awful, you poor thing Flowers

I've lost track of who was fasting yesterday, but well done to all! I finshed the day on 502. Debated a b2b but decided against it in the end, want a few more 'standard' FDs under my belt again first - will fast again on Friday.

Well done on the SVs what and nose

EssentialHummus · 08/01/2020 13:47

duck thinking of you and wishing you well for 2020, that sounds very challenging.

Lou0390 · 08/01/2020 14:00

Hello, I'm new to 5:2 and I'm on day 3 and so far so good, but a few headaches so
Will need to up my water.

I have also downloaded the C5K and I've maned 3 runs so far and im still feeling motivated which is a first!

@pop I am using the Paul McKenna app and it's really good and it's helping me to stay focused especially when I want to binge on snacking Blush

Whattodowithaminute · 08/01/2020 14:32

duck that sounds like you’ve had a really rough few months-welcome to the friendly and supportive crew here who are always happy to
Listen to a vent if needed...
Welcome pop and lou
Well done aber

lou a cup of bovril/marmite has always sorted out my headache issues and now I include them routinely on my FD allowance...

PopGoesTheWeaz · 08/01/2020 15:00

@Lou0390 which app are you using? There are a few and I can't really tell the difference between them.

Definitely need help with going for seconds and to a lesser degree snacks/stealth eating (like when cooking or clearing the kids plates). Calories from alcohol over december have not helped, but DH and I are doing dry January and as he's usually the drink instigator, I rely on his willpower for that and should focus my energy on fasting and re-establishing good eating habits.

Lou0390 · 08/01/2020 19:43

Thanks for the tip about Bovril and Marmite will try it out.
@PopGoesTheWeaz it was 7 days thin one. Hopefully you should find it on ITunes

BigChocFrenzy · 08/01/2020 20:46

Welcome, lou 🙂
As What said, best tip to avoid FD headaches is Marmite - glug down a level teasp mid-morning and / or mid-afternoon
It replenishes salt & minerals that can be low - the usual cause of fasting or low carb headaches - when your body is adapting to fasting

Well done on your FD, aber

pop On NFDs, I suggest the "one plate" rule
Just one plate for each course
Have a bit of everything you want, including pud, so you are not deprived
No seconds except veg (no seconds for potatoes or parsnips)

No snacking or grazing ever - eat meals, nothing between

If you allow yourself to snack occasionally, you'll never really break the habit

You should be able to last at least 4-5 hours between meals if you make sure each meal contains a decent amount of protein

Also, stop eating DC leftovers:
"There is a rubbish bin in the kitchen, which shouldn‘t be you"
You are worth more than that

OP posts:
noseovertail · 08/01/2020 21:26

Welcome lou and welcome back pop

Nfd finished here with about 350cals spare as I'd eaten loads and wasn't particularly hungry after dinner, is it okay to 'save' these for a Saturday treat?

Hoghgyni · 08/01/2020 21:40

I used to have the "I can make you thin" CD. He focuses on mindful eating, so savouring every mouthful and being very aware of the tastes and textures. I could see how it would help whilst eating something like an M&S mini meal on a fast day, as you would not be able to wolf it down in 2 minutes.

Just a warning though, do not under any circumstances listen to the app whilst driving, on the tube or in public. I find it impossible to relax, but Paul managed to knock me out within minutes.

SydneyCarton · 08/01/2020 22:16

duck That sounds like an awful thing to go through, hope you’re taking care of yourself Flowers

First FD of 2020 closed on 630. The less said about the quality of the calories the better, as DP and I had a last minute cinema trip and my food intake basically consisted of popcorn and two Percy Pigs Blush. Hey ho. Homemade veggie chilli for tomorrow to try and boost my nutrients.

Weighing in tomorrow and really no idea what the scales will say. I was 10:7.5 on New Year’s Day and it’s been dry January since then and relatively good eating with no snacks, but we have been finishing the last bits of Christmas food, so who knows. Like Scarlett O’Hara, I’ll think about it tomorrow Grin

BigChocFrenzy · 09/01/2020 08:31

Well done on your FD, Sydney

nose It's fine.
Many people like to "bank" calories during the week to be a bit more relaxed at the WE

Whenever you feel satisifed, stop eating - there is no need to eat all your NFD calories if you are not hungry some days
It usually balances out, as some days you are hungrier or have a meal out.

OP posts:
moonlight1705 · 09/01/2020 09:20

Second FD of the week for me today - I did have some lovely cassoulet cooked last night but then looked up the calories from the recipe and it was 580 for just one portion so didn't take it for left overs today. Instead I have got a banana for lunch and then a nice jacket potato for tea.

Who else is doing it today?

Sydney sounds like a perfect day out

duck sorry to hear about your relationship, I hope you are doing ok now as as everyone says, take care of yourself.

BCF I may have to use the rubbish bin one more often to myself, that's such a good point.

noseovertail · 09/01/2020 09:25

thanks bcf I was hoping you would say that Grin

oh dear sydney you must have been so hungry, but well done on keeping it as FD - good luck for your weigh in today

Good luck with your FD moon

80skid · 09/01/2020 09:25

Morning everyone. Not a fast day for me today, it had been my intention but I'm off for lunch with my mum instead. Which is a double bonus, as I eat more and drink on a Friday, so tomorrow will be a bigger bet loss than today Grin
I've had no breakfast this morning, idly thinking a 16:8 would still be beneficial. Do other people do this on normal days? I did this following my fast day too - is that ok? I tend to have milk in my coffee so not 100% calorie free until lunch.
Have a good day everyone Smile

SydneyCarton · 09/01/2020 10:06

moonlight It was nice as we don’t get to go out much with three kids, although my in-laws are brilliant for babysitting they do childcare as well so I don’t like to ask them too often. Have a great FD!

nose The popcorn was surprisingly filling (I should bloody well hope so at 450 cals for a medium box Shock) and I usually do one meal only on FDs, so it was okay.

Nice result on the scales this morning; 10:4:2, so not only am I back to pre-Christmas weight but also technically a whole 2 ounces lighter Grin. On course for 10:2 by the 31st, and hopefully 10 stone for the start of half term (17th Feb)

Have a good one Thursday fasters!

Whattodowithaminute · 09/01/2020 10:16

sydney well done on managing to stay on track for FD yesterday you must have been super hungry. Lovely to spend the evening at the cinema though-what did you watch? Any good? We haven’t been for months...

Enjoy your lunch with mum 80s
Checking in with you today moonlight fish cake and salad for dinner, soup for lunch.

Thanks bcf another one to add to the mantras

EssentialHummus · 09/01/2020 10:20

Quick FD sign in here, will catch up with you all later.

BigChocFrenzy · 09/01/2020 10:22

Congratulations on your SV, Sydney

Good luck, moonlight, what and any other Thursday fasters

what if you like our 5:2 mantras, here's another:
Don't snack because "little pickers need bigger knickers"

Many people do 16:8 or 14:10 on most NFDs, 80s, to help keep them moderate
From Mosely and other fasting experts, it's recommended to at least do adaily 12:12, i.e. an eating window of no more than 12 hours

OP posts:
Whattodowithaminute · 09/01/2020 10:29
Grin
Calledyoulastnightfromglasgow · 09/01/2020 11:50

Hello you lot! Please to read about the successes! Good luck with the FD.

I’m still lurking. I’m back to eating a tonne of veg, zero restrictions except for sugar/gluten and my craving are going and it’s all settling.

Going to give it a few more weeks before trying another FD. I think my exercise schedule is the issue. I need to do a FD on a gentler day as my body can’t cope!

Shows how individual it all is

OohMrDarcy · 09/01/2020 13:14

Afternoon all

Just checking in here, NFD for me today and a chicken casserole in the slow cooker for later with the DC.

80s - I do 16:8 probably 90% of the time... I have never really been a breakfast person so it was a natural choice for me. If I do want something I have it but it is extremely rare, more likely that I would have a brunch one day at the weekend - though that would still fit into 16:8 as it might be brunch and then a sunday roast mid afternoon.

Fasting tomorrow for me and then I shall find out how far away from pre christmas weight I am

Good luck to those fasting today!

moonlight1705 · 09/01/2020 13:51

I've been for a walk around the local bookshop in my lunch break and simply ran passed the Yo Sushi on the way back to work so I didn't crumble....why is the second FD so much harder?

noseovertail · 09/01/2020 16:53

80s I generally skip breakfast too, even after fds, I really dont miss it although if at the office I do have a skinny latte so not completely zero calories until lunch.

Good luck fasters, not long to go now.

I'm having a fd with you tomorrow mrd

Fab sv Sydney

moon recite the 5:2 mantra 'I can have it tomorrow' Grin

SydneyCarton · 09/01/2020 17:57

what We saw Star Wars at the imax in Waterloo. It’s okay, I’m not a massive fan or anything but there were some good effects that really show up in 3D on the big screen. There was a trailer for the next Bond film that looked good