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Fasting / 5:2 diet

Talk about intermittent fasting and 5:2, including what’s worked for others. Mumsnet hasn't checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. You may wish to speak to a medical professional before starting any diet.

5:2 Thread number 88: Anyone trying to pull you down is beneath you - come join our friendly & knowledgeable group to BOOST you up to goal

979 replies

BigChocFrenzy · 22/11/2019 00:06

Welcome to the continuing thread for those following 5:2 or other forms of IF (Intermittent Fasting) such as 4:3, ADF, or daily 16:8 Smile

The 5:2 diet was introduced by Michael Mosely on BBC Horizon on August 2012:

Basically it is 2 very low cal days ("fasts") per week - which need not be consecutive - and eat "normally" to maintain on the other 5 days.

For those who have dieted or maybe overeaten for years, eating "normally"
means roughly the number of calories your body needs to maintain - NOT reduce - its weight (see TDEE calculator below).

IMPORTANT
If you have had past diagnosed Eating Disorders or serious MH problems you should NOT do 5:2 or any other kind of fasting

ACRONYMS

16:8 is a different type of fasting, which can be combined with 5:2.
Daily zero-cal fast for 16 hours and eat within an 8 hour window. To lose weight, this needs a weekly calorie deficit as well

4:3 = fast on 3 non-consecutive days per week

ADF (Alternate-Day Fasting) = fast every other day

b2b (optional) back-to-back / consecutive fast days, each with an increased allowance of 650 calories instead of 500

BMI (Body Mass Index) healthy range is 18.5 - 24.9 for Caucasians. Upper limit may be 22 for some of Asian origin.

FD = single Fast Day: aim for 500 calories (600 for men or 25% TDEE whichever is higher) or 1000 cals for BF
No alcohol or junk on FDs
Even if you exercise strenuously, do NOT increase FD cals to allow for exercise

MFP = My Fitness Pal, a useful App or website to track food & drink calories

miniFD = MiniFD, 850- 1000 calories, no alcohol or junk

NFD = Non-Fast Day, averages around TDEE

NSV / LSV = Non Scale Victory / LifeStyle (change) Victory, e.g. compliment, smaller waist, clothes size

SV = Scale Victory

TDEE = Total Daily Energy Expenditure, the average number of calories you burn in a day, is calculated (see calculators below) from your current weight, height, age, activity level.
Aim to average about this for NFDs.

WOE / WOL = Way Of Eating / Way Of Life. We say this instead of "diet", to emphasise that we must make a permanent change in how we eat, to mainitain our new healthy weight longterm.

HOW TO START

. Take initial measurements: weight, waist, hips
. Use TDEE calculator below if you need a rough guide to how much to eat on NFDs
. Choose any 2 days for FDs, non-consecutive is easier.
. Before each FD: plan, shop & calorie count ALL food & drink for the day

Useful Resources & Calculators

Calorie Counter: mfp
Rough Calories for NFD: Mosely TDEE Calc (exercisers: set activity level to one below what you think)
BMI: Calc
Ideal Weight & Body Frame Size: Calc Wt Frame
Body Fat: BFat Calc
Choose / Visualise Goal Weight:
3D BMI body types ripped to normal
Bod Vis Measurements & 3D rotate]]

Safe Alcohol Calc: Calc Units Cals

FD Recipes:
Mosely LowCarb , low carb Diet Doc
BBC Good Food 52 , BBC Good Food 500 cal meals ,
Good2Know , Foodie Under 200 Cals
Vegetarian ,

FD Ready Meals, Fast Food

Any Day:
Meal Planner

FAQs / Tips

  • WATER: Start each day with a glass of water; and drink plenty during the day.
  • HOT DRINKS: No limits on tea or coffee, but on FDs count any milk / sugar calories.
  • SLEEP: Try to get enough sleep, or it may slow weight loss.
  • EXERCISE: is healthy & can help weight loss - BUT only if you do NOT eat back less than you burn. Fasted training can burn more fat.
HIIT and resistance training both work well with 5:2/IF.
  • FDs: If possible, choose days when you are busy, but not preparing meals for others.
Concentrate on protein & veg; avoid sugar or fruit juice. e.g. Stir-fries, soups & stews. Ready meals are OK.
  • BFers: start with 1000-cal FDs, optionally reduce to 700 cals gradually.
You can return to 1000 if growth spurts or sleep-deprivation require more fuel.
  • NFDs: No rules, but to improve health, try to cut down on added sugar & junk food, keep alcohol within safe limits. A few treats per week are fine.
  • Do NOT fast: if you've ever had EDs, or if pregnant, under 21, over-stressed, fever, stomach bug, even a bad cold.
  • CHECK with your Doctor: if you have diabetes, any other endocrine condition, any serious past or present medical condition, or if taking ANY prescribed medication (fasting may affect absorption rate)

Scientific Evidence for Fasting & Health

BBC article on the original Horizon program

Telegraph comments on 5:2 and gives a brief overview by Dr Mosley, useful for newbies.

This InterviewPart1 and InterviewPart2 with leading ADF researcher Dr Varady explains why fasting helps you to lose weight AND improves some health markers.

Fasting boosts "autophagy" = recycling of old cells
Yoshinori Ohsumi won the 2016 Nobel prize for Medicine for research into autophagy
NOBEL Lecture “Autophagy – An Intracellular Recycling System”

Prof. R Taylor (Newcastle Uni) won the 2013 Diabetes UK Banting Prize for his Twin Cycle Hypothesis re the cause of type 2 diabetes: Twin Cycle Hypothesis T2
and showed a fasting diet could reverse T2

Dr Michelle Harvie (funded by cancer charities) showed possible benefits of intermittent fasting compared to standard daily calorie reduction in her trials (consecutive FDs) with women at high risk of breast cancer: ComparingDiets , EarlierResearch52

Dr Johnson showed intermittent fasting helped Asthma

HORMESIS & Why Intermittent Fasting Works: Mattson , BlackSwan and Hormesis

Molecular Mechanisms and Clinical Applications: J CellMetabolism
Recent research into the health benefits of fasting: e.g. by world-respected neuroscientist Dr MarkMattson (Mosely referred to his research) showed:

. Improved glucose regulation
. Loss of abdominal fat with maintenance of muscle mass
. Reduced blood pressure and heart rate
. Improved learning and memory and motor function
. Protection of neurons in the brain against dysfunction and degeneration in animal models of Alzheimer’s disease, Parkinson’s disease, stroke and Huntington’s disease.

Brain metabolism in health, aging, andneurodegeneration :
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

He compared 5:2 to ordinary daily diets on overweight women with family history of breast cancer.
Fasting group lost more belly fat, retained more muscle & had slightly better blood sugar regulation.

More of his research is in HealthyAging , Health , AvoidParkinsonsDisease

His article in J Aging Mech Disease 2015 explains the health benefits of intermittent fasting in great scientific detail.

Why intermittent fasting and stopping snacking can lower your risk of serious diseases:
Meal frequency and timing in health and disease

Fasting can help maintain brain health during aging:
emboj.embopress.org/content/36/11/1474
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

This interview with leading researchers into fasting in combination with standard cancer treatment: ScientificDiscussion MoselyMattsonLongo and a LongoInterview

NY Times Fasting Overview

Research by other US and European scientists in this DailyTelegraph Article about the medicinal uses of fasting, for many serious conditions & diseases.

Recent trials with Type 2 diabetics and those at risk of having it used a form of daily fasting - skipping supper.
Their conclusions: eating 1-2 meals per day is better than several small meals for losing weight and controlling insulin levels, see Type2Paper

OP posts:
Thread gallery
5
BigChocFrenzy · 05/01/2020 18:58

Sounds a good plan, what
and you've already zapped nearly half your holiday regain

OP posts:
noseovertail · 05/01/2020 19:17

Welcome parsley and that 4lb gain will soon be off.

Cinema is tomorrow bcf, unfortunately ds has chosen 'spies in disguise', he really didnt fancy my choices of little women or jojo rabbit, but then he is only 8 Grin

BigChocFrenzy · 05/01/2020 20:33

oh, that would be my choice out of those 3 too !
He sounds a sensible lad

OP posts:
ZazuMoon · 06/01/2020 08:19

Hello everyone. New to fasting as an approach. Does anyone have any tips for breastfeeding and modified fasting? Baby is 5 months old and starting to wean solid foods so I’m hoping not to be breastfeeding as often. Ideally I have 1.5 stone to lose but I would settle for 10 pounds or so right now. I did lose the rest of the weight through walking everywhere and eating sensibly but have hit a plateau and would like to try a new approach.

EssentialHummus · 06/01/2020 09:03

Signing in for a Monday FD.

Welcome zazu! bigchoc will know better, but having started this woe when I was still BFing DD I’d say you probably will need a slightly higher calorie intake to compensate for what BFing uses, and lots of fluids(herbal tea, water) to avoid headaches and dehydration. Personally I found that my weight loss accelerated as I BFed less (as weaning progressed) - it was like my body was holding on to an extra few kg.

ZazuMoon · 06/01/2020 09:24

Thanks @EssentialHummus. I think you are right and my body is holding on to the weight. I had to watch what I ate and walk 30-40 miles a week to lose the weight so far so breastfeeding has not helped my weight loss at all. Looking forward to getting out of my maternity clothes this year! Good luck to everyone today.

BigChocFrenzy · 06/01/2020 13:22

Welcome, Zazu 🙂
Several BFers have done 5:2, including tandem feeders

As Hummus says, drink lots of water, including sparkling - keep water with you all day and DRINK
BUT cut right down on flavoured fizz like cola

Don't try for 500 cals
Standard recommendation is for BFers to start on 1000 cal FDs

Higher calories than normal FDs, but same rules
i.e. no booze or junk, so no chocs, donuts etc on FDs

and also no snacking between meals - even "healthy" snacks
so have say 3 or 4 small FD meals, nothing between

If you are BF but no longer EBF, then you can gradually reduce to 700 cals

  • if you feel comfortable doing so and you can alsways return to 1000 if you prefer.
OP posts:
ZazuMoon · 06/01/2020 13:58

Thank you @BigChocFrenzy. Incidentally that could have been a description of my pregnancy 😂 Your advice has highlighted how I’m not drinking enough so I’m going to work on that and try mini meals with no snacks.

SydneyCarton · 06/01/2020 14:57

My planned first FD of 2020 is off as I’ve finally succumbed to the DCs Christmas lurgy (sore throat and rasping cough, ugh) and am actually having my first sick day in about four years. I won’t lie, I am rather enjoying the rest and quiet as the DC are at nursery and my in-laws, while I am in bed drinking tea and mainlining Lockets Blush

Today’s food is planned and logged on MFP and coming in at about 450 cals under TDEE at the moment, so that’s pretty good even if it’s not a FD. Hopefully back WFH tomorrow and will try again for a FD on Wednesday when I’m back in the office

sparkle789 · 06/01/2020 15:24

Mini fast day for me as I haven’t eaten much today so I’m going to try and come in under 1000.
Lost 2.5 lbs after my last fast day taking it up to a 6.5 loss in end of December.

BigChocFrenzy · 06/01/2020 15:25

Sorry to hear about your lurgy, Sydney
Plenty of TLC and you too: drink lots of water !

OP posts:
BigChocFrenzy · 06/01/2020 15:26

Congratulations on your SV, sparkle
It's a good idea to grab a serendipitous miniFD whenever the opportunity rises.

OP posts:
Parsley65 · 06/01/2020 16:55

Thank you all for your welcome!
First fast after the holidays today so I'm keeping busy, but just can't get warm.
Dh is helpfully clearing out (aka eating) leftover Christmas goodies from the treats cupboard Grin

moonlight1705 · 06/01/2020 18:38

Quick question: can the 5:2 diet help my sister? She has a fun combination of Crohns disease plus ME/CFS but I don't know enough about the science to recommend or not.

WineGummyBear · 06/01/2020 19:54

Hi everyone!

Joining your lovely (and informative) thread.

I'm new to 5:2. Have 5kg to lose.

Just done my first FD. Had laughing cow cheese on 2 oatcakes for lunch with an apple.

Salmon and red pepper salad for dinner.

Am now satisfying my sweet tooth with a peppermint and liquorice tea.

Have to say, I'm apprehensive about tomorrow. How on earth do I make sure not to gorge?!

I've planned the day so that should help. I really like having a sweet thing after dinner in front of the TV, I thought on my non fast days I'd have a mini packet of chocolate buttons. I know we are not supposed to have junk but is a little treat permissable?

Fillybuster · 06/01/2020 19:58

Super late FD check in - not eaten all day (although I succumbed to 3 medjool dates and an Indian sweet....) & way begins on the thread....off to catch up but struggling with new (smaller) phone! Was up 5lbs this morning so really need to get back on the bus ShockGrin

OohMrDarcy · 06/01/2020 19:59

Evening all

That is the youngests birthday done, I'm now a parent of only over 10's Shock
Got a nice 6 week break before I gain a teenager now.... arghhhhhhhhhhhh

Fasting tomorrow, can't wait

EssentialHummus · 06/01/2020 20:12

Well done filly, wine, parsley nearly done. Finished here, no idea of calories but a chicken with yoghurt dish at lunch and small portion of bean stew at dinner with coffees here and there.

moonlight (re your earlier comment) - worth showing your DH the Moseley BBC documentary? It's fairly compelling.

Happy birthday miniDarcy! I only have a 2yo mid-potty training and tantrums and we're now contemplating another baby... all children over 10 sounds great from where I'm sitting Grin.

wine I often find I'm not hungry the next day, or certainly not diving for the sugar. If you are it may be worth calorie counting on NFDs so you're mindful of what you're consuming.

WineGummyBear · 06/01/2020 21:05

Thanks hummus.

Hopefully I'll be the same

Whattodowithaminute · 06/01/2020 22:38

Welcome wine

Argh MrD 10 yo and teenager?!! Lovely... I have an 8, 6 and 3 so only imagining older kids at the mo...
Well done filly, wine, hummus, parsley on a successful FD all round.

I’m joining you tomorrow MrD have it planned so hopefully should be ok, first day with big kids back at school.

PanemEtCircenses · 06/01/2020 23:04

Hello you lot, I was on a long running 5:2 thread a few years ago, when I lost my baby weight doing 4:3. After that I was doing a lot of exercise so maintained with 6.1 plus 16/8 (or less) almost every day, which helps my asthma.

Anyway, that all went to pot when one of my DC became very unwell. For the past 6 months - and at least the next 6 months - I’ve been constantly in and out of hospital, including lots of over nights. In those 6 months I’ve put on 2 stone and my asthma has flared up badly, so I need to get back on the wagon.
Anyway, do you ever discuss OMAD in this thread? That’s what I’ve started (alongside 16:8 on NFD) as I just don’t have reliable resources to count calories on FDs. For example, when DC is having an especially tough time various friends kindly make and deliver evening meals for us. Those are a Godsend and I want to be able to eat it without stressing about cals. Plan is eating a sensible evening meal plus fruit and nuts at home, or same in hospital cafe, to avoid M&S food purchases where I’m spending too much money and get too many temptations.

Any ideas or tips very welcome. Smile

aberjenagain · 07/01/2020 09:14

V quick check in for a fd. Can see lots of newcomers - welcome all! Will catch up properly later.

moonlight1705 · 07/01/2020 09:59

Checking in for a FD today as well - good luck with yours aber

Thanks hummus for the recommendation, I think I am am sowly getting through to DH that it is not quite so dramatic a lifestyle as he makes out. He is just a bit of a worrier really.

Panem - what is OMAD? It must be so stressful with your DC being ill, I hope the next 6 months goes well.

PanemEtCircenses · 07/01/2020 10:47

Oh sorry, OMAD is One Meal a Day, also known as 23:1/22:2. So a fast day where the calorie restriction happens by only eating for a short period of time, rather than by counting spread out calories. As calorie intake isn’t so necessarily so low it needs to be done more often than twice a week for weight loss I reckon.

inthethickofit19 · 07/01/2020 11:10

Waves everyone

I'm really struggling with getting back on it. My little one is doing better and I've managed to move him into his own room so I'm sleeping better.

We're stuck in this cycle of eating really unhealthy food and feeling flat.

Help!