Meet the Other Phone. Protection built in.

Meet the Other Phone.
Protection built in.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Fasting / 5:2 diet

Talk about intermittent fasting and 5:2, including what’s worked for others. Mumsnet hasn't checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. You may wish to speak to a medical professional before starting any diet.

5:2 Thread number 88: Anyone trying to pull you down is beneath you - come join our friendly & knowledgeable group to BOOST you up to goal

979 replies

BigChocFrenzy · 22/11/2019 00:06

Welcome to the continuing thread for those following 5:2 or other forms of IF (Intermittent Fasting) such as 4:3, ADF, or daily 16:8 Smile

The 5:2 diet was introduced by Michael Mosely on BBC Horizon on August 2012:

Basically it is 2 very low cal days ("fasts") per week - which need not be consecutive - and eat "normally" to maintain on the other 5 days.

For those who have dieted or maybe overeaten for years, eating "normally"
means roughly the number of calories your body needs to maintain - NOT reduce - its weight (see TDEE calculator below).

IMPORTANT
If you have had past diagnosed Eating Disorders or serious MH problems you should NOT do 5:2 or any other kind of fasting

ACRONYMS

16:8 is a different type of fasting, which can be combined with 5:2.
Daily zero-cal fast for 16 hours and eat within an 8 hour window. To lose weight, this needs a weekly calorie deficit as well

4:3 = fast on 3 non-consecutive days per week

ADF (Alternate-Day Fasting) = fast every other day

b2b (optional) back-to-back / consecutive fast days, each with an increased allowance of 650 calories instead of 500

BMI (Body Mass Index) healthy range is 18.5 - 24.9 for Caucasians. Upper limit may be 22 for some of Asian origin.

FD = single Fast Day: aim for 500 calories (600 for men or 25% TDEE whichever is higher) or 1000 cals for BF
No alcohol or junk on FDs
Even if you exercise strenuously, do NOT increase FD cals to allow for exercise

MFP = My Fitness Pal, a useful App or website to track food & drink calories

miniFD = MiniFD, 850- 1000 calories, no alcohol or junk

NFD = Non-Fast Day, averages around TDEE

NSV / LSV = Non Scale Victory / LifeStyle (change) Victory, e.g. compliment, smaller waist, clothes size

SV = Scale Victory

TDEE = Total Daily Energy Expenditure, the average number of calories you burn in a day, is calculated (see calculators below) from your current weight, height, age, activity level.
Aim to average about this for NFDs.

WOE / WOL = Way Of Eating / Way Of Life. We say this instead of "diet", to emphasise that we must make a permanent change in how we eat, to mainitain our new healthy weight longterm.

HOW TO START

. Take initial measurements: weight, waist, hips
. Use TDEE calculator below if you need a rough guide to how much to eat on NFDs
. Choose any 2 days for FDs, non-consecutive is easier.
. Before each FD: plan, shop & calorie count ALL food & drink for the day

Useful Resources & Calculators

Calorie Counter: mfp
Rough Calories for NFD: Mosely TDEE Calc (exercisers: set activity level to one below what you think)
BMI: Calc
Ideal Weight & Body Frame Size: Calc Wt Frame
Body Fat: BFat Calc
Choose / Visualise Goal Weight:
3D BMI body types ripped to normal
Bod Vis Measurements & 3D rotate]]

Safe Alcohol Calc: Calc Units Cals

FD Recipes:
Mosely LowCarb , low carb Diet Doc
BBC Good Food 52 , BBC Good Food 500 cal meals ,
Good2Know , Foodie Under 200 Cals
Vegetarian ,

FD Ready Meals, Fast Food

Any Day:
Meal Planner

FAQs / Tips

  • WATER: Start each day with a glass of water; and drink plenty during the day.
  • HOT DRINKS: No limits on tea or coffee, but on FDs count any milk / sugar calories.
  • SLEEP: Try to get enough sleep, or it may slow weight loss.
  • EXERCISE: is healthy & can help weight loss - BUT only if you do NOT eat back less than you burn. Fasted training can burn more fat.
HIIT and resistance training both work well with 5:2/IF.
  • FDs: If possible, choose days when you are busy, but not preparing meals for others.
Concentrate on protein & veg; avoid sugar or fruit juice. e.g. Stir-fries, soups & stews. Ready meals are OK.
  • BFers: start with 1000-cal FDs, optionally reduce to 700 cals gradually.
You can return to 1000 if growth spurts or sleep-deprivation require more fuel.
  • NFDs: No rules, but to improve health, try to cut down on added sugar & junk food, keep alcohol within safe limits. A few treats per week are fine.
  • Do NOT fast: if you've ever had EDs, or if pregnant, under 21, over-stressed, fever, stomach bug, even a bad cold.
  • CHECK with your Doctor: if you have diabetes, any other endocrine condition, any serious past or present medical condition, or if taking ANY prescribed medication (fasting may affect absorption rate)

Scientific Evidence for Fasting & Health

BBC article on the original Horizon program

Telegraph comments on 5:2 and gives a brief overview by Dr Mosley, useful for newbies.

This InterviewPart1 and InterviewPart2 with leading ADF researcher Dr Varady explains why fasting helps you to lose weight AND improves some health markers.

Fasting boosts "autophagy" = recycling of old cells
Yoshinori Ohsumi won the 2016 Nobel prize for Medicine for research into autophagy
NOBEL Lecture “Autophagy – An Intracellular Recycling System”

Prof. R Taylor (Newcastle Uni) won the 2013 Diabetes UK Banting Prize for his Twin Cycle Hypothesis re the cause of type 2 diabetes: Twin Cycle Hypothesis T2
and showed a fasting diet could reverse T2

Dr Michelle Harvie (funded by cancer charities) showed possible benefits of intermittent fasting compared to standard daily calorie reduction in her trials (consecutive FDs) with women at high risk of breast cancer: ComparingDiets , EarlierResearch52

Dr Johnson showed intermittent fasting helped Asthma

HORMESIS & Why Intermittent Fasting Works: Mattson , BlackSwan and Hormesis

Molecular Mechanisms and Clinical Applications: J CellMetabolism
Recent research into the health benefits of fasting: e.g. by world-respected neuroscientist Dr MarkMattson (Mosely referred to his research) showed:

. Improved glucose regulation
. Loss of abdominal fat with maintenance of muscle mass
. Reduced blood pressure and heart rate
. Improved learning and memory and motor function
. Protection of neurons in the brain against dysfunction and degeneration in animal models of Alzheimer’s disease, Parkinson’s disease, stroke and Huntington’s disease.

Brain metabolism in health, aging, andneurodegeneration :
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

He compared 5:2 to ordinary daily diets on overweight women with family history of breast cancer.
Fasting group lost more belly fat, retained more muscle & had slightly better blood sugar regulation.

More of his research is in HealthyAging , Health , AvoidParkinsonsDisease

His article in J Aging Mech Disease 2015 explains the health benefits of intermittent fasting in great scientific detail.

Why intermittent fasting and stopping snacking can lower your risk of serious diseases:
Meal frequency and timing in health and disease

Fasting can help maintain brain health during aging:
emboj.embopress.org/content/36/11/1474
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

This interview with leading researchers into fasting in combination with standard cancer treatment: ScientificDiscussion MoselyMattsonLongo and a LongoInterview

NY Times Fasting Overview

Research by other US and European scientists in this DailyTelegraph Article about the medicinal uses of fasting, for many serious conditions & diseases.

Recent trials with Type 2 diabetics and those at risk of having it used a form of daily fasting - skipping supper.
Their conclusions: eating 1-2 meals per day is better than several small meals for losing weight and controlling insulin levels, see Type2Paper

OP posts:
Thread gallery
5
sparkle789 · 02/01/2020 20:07

Kitchen closed on 520. Today was hard I’m not sure why it shouldn’t have been I woke late and was busy but I have been so hungry. Happy it’s done now and proud I didn’t go off track. Well done to the other fasters today.

BigChocFrenzy · 02/01/2020 20:45

Well done, aber, MrD, sparkle

Broccoli and baked beans sounds ok, hummus
Do you have a little cheese to grate on top ?

That's a good NFD, nose
No need to eat your full TDEE; in fact it is a good habit to stop eating whenever you feel satisfied.
Good luck tomorrow - Plan & calorie count your full FD menu today, because it will help you stay on track tomorrow

OP posts:
BigChocFrenzy · 02/01/2020 20:49

You did really well to nail a tough FD, sparkle
Occasionally FDs are very hard or very easy, without any clear reason
This is probably because our bodies have such complex systems which interact with each other and with what they experience from outside.

OP posts:
Calledyoulastnightfromglasgow · 02/01/2020 21:27

Really struggled today too sparkle. Just think I have got used to eating too much cover Xmas!

I made through wagamamas with kimchi, an egg and some miso soup. It was a struggle!

inthethickofit19 · 02/01/2020 21:29

I've really fallen off big style. Tomorrow is a new day!

BigChocFrenzy · 02/01/2020 23:00

Never mind, inthethick
Move on and plan your next FD

Well done, glasgow
Eating out on an FD is usually tough

OP posts:
EssentialHummus · 03/01/2020 06:52

I'm with you today inthe - b2b today as weight is still 2lbs past my top-end maintenance weight. Not too bad but don't want it going any higher!

Whattodowithaminute · 03/01/2020 07:33

With you today nose and hummus

Impressed with you eating out on a FD glasgow- and sound like you managed it well.

Calledyoulastnightfromglasgow · 03/01/2020 07:51

Good luck of your FD today

I’m on a NFD but trying to stick to the rules of no snacks and also no crap even with meals.

aberjenagain · 03/01/2020 08:07

Good luck today hummus, thickofit, whattodo and nose.

2.2 lb down this morning Smile Next few days are about getting back into healthy habits (no snacking, sensible alcohol, treats as treats not meals(!) etc), before next fd on tues. Not quite ready for b2bs again just yet!

Whattodowithaminute · 03/01/2020 08:50

Well done aber

noseovertail · 03/01/2020 08:53

Morning everyone, feeling good about my first fd in a long time, hope I can get through it unscathed..... of course ds wanted pancakes for breakfast Envy they smell amazing, but I'm resisting! Going to just have tea until lunch which I think will be a subway salad, dinner will be mushroom omelette and salad I think, possibly with a sugar free jelly for pud. Going to aim for 500 but if I'm closer to 600 today then I'm not going to sweat it!

Good luck hummus thickofit whattodo and fab SV aber Smile

OohMrDarcy · 03/01/2020 09:58

Morning all

Feeling good and back in my groove after yesterdays FD. Thinking I'll fast again tomorrow as its DS birthday coming up - sunday party / monday birthday... gotta stay ahead of the game.

Well done all - lots of positive posts so it sounds like everyone is getting back in the swing nicely!

BigChocFrenzy · 03/01/2020 13:57

Congratulations on your SV, aber
That holiday regain is disappearing very quickly

Good luck on your FD, hummus, inthethick, what, MrD
and especially on your 1st FD for a while, nose - you sound very positive Smile

OP posts:
CeciledeVolanges · 03/01/2020 15:19

Placemarking, sorry - I’ll be back when I have something positive to report! Congratulations everyone who has got back on the wagon so quickly after Christmas (I’m back after about two years away Xmas Blush)

Whattodowithaminute · 03/01/2020 15:25

How are my fellow FDers doing? I’ve had a long swim, a lot of water and some bovril so far. Won’t eat until 8ish tonight as planning to eat with DH-he’s cooking so hoping for something light and tasty (he’s great cook and loves Asian flavours so should be ok!)

noseovertail · 03/01/2020 16:46

Welcome back cecil I'm also back after a break and a 19lb gain so dont fret, you are not alone!

Ooh what let us know what you end up having, I love Asian flavours too but not great at them so a fd based asian meal would go down a treat. I ended up having soup and some chicken for lunch as was freezing, still planning omelette and salad for dinner. Been keeping v v busy taking all the xmas decs down, plus a walk into town to get a few bits and 2 dog walks with ds in tow. How is everyone else getting on?

noseovertail · 03/01/2020 16:47

Thanks bcf yes, hoping the positivity sticks around for a lot longer this time Grin

Whattodowithaminute · 03/01/2020 17:05

Ahhh nose no light and Asian here tonight-he’s planned lamb cutlets, mash and carrots. I can drop the mash and go light on the lamb or turn today into a mini and eat the lot... decisions... I didn’t think I’d manage a FD until next week so maybe a mini wouldn’t be so bad...

BigChocFrenzy · 03/01/2020 18:01

Welcome back cecile
Have you resumed FDs yet ?

Remember probably the most useful tips for NFDs:

  • No grazing / snacking - even "healthy" snacks - between meals
  • Keep to NHS alcohol limits
  • Drink lots of water, FDs & NFDs
  • Eat more veg

What The FD - without mash - would be easier if he can whip up another veg side without cream or oil.
Maybe you can warn him for future FDs that you need something light ?

You're doing very well on your first FD back, nose
Not long to go

OP posts:
sparkle789 · 03/01/2020 18:07

Unplanned fast day for me. I’ve had some pizza and that’s it today by time I’ll be able to eat it’ll be about 8pm so I may as well make it a fd. I’ve had 460 calories so might have something tiny later.

Whattodowithaminute · 03/01/2020 18:14

BCF I know it’s very annoying-he knew I was fasting today as I declined going out for lunch with him and the DC. Sabotage..! I can happily go without the mash, go large on carrots, and will give him the bigger cutlets, trim off any fat...
Will do my best!

noseovertail · 03/01/2020 18:20

Ah nevermind what hope you enjoy your lamb and carrots Smile

Fd done on 574 so slightly more than it should be but for my first one in ages I'm happy with that!! Will have a cuppa later once ds in bed.

Hope everyone else is managing well?

mollysfolly · 03/01/2020 18:25

Hello everyone. Another oldie rejoining the group after 7 years! I got down to my goal weight of 8st 12lbs beginning of 2013, having lost 16lbs since The Programme in August 2012.
Why oh why have I not stuck to the plan? I am now 10st 13lbs and, at just 5ft tall, nudging into 'obese'Confused. Time for action!!
Well done bcf on all your efforts to keep these threads going. Good to see some familiar names - is breadandwine still active here?

BigChocFrenzy · 03/01/2020 20:04

Well done on an excellent 1st FD back, nose
Have an early night if you can, to maximise fasting benefits and reduce temptation

Good luck, sparkle, what

Welcome back, molly
Don't worry, this time when you reach goal you know you need a defined maintenance plan - almost everyone does -
so you never again have to lose more than a little holiday regain.

Breadandwine hasn't been on MN for a couple of years now; I think he's too busy with his vegan blog etc
He was very successful reaching goal, building up fitness and maintaining both, probably our most senior 5:2er in his late 70s

OP posts: