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Fasting / 5:2 diet

Talk about intermittent fasting and 5:2, including what’s worked for others. Mumsnet hasn't checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. You may wish to speak to a medical professional before starting any diet.

5:2 Thread number 88: Anyone trying to pull you down is beneath you - come join our friendly & knowledgeable group to BOOST you up to goal

979 replies

BigChocFrenzy · 22/11/2019 00:06

Welcome to the continuing thread for those following 5:2 or other forms of IF (Intermittent Fasting) such as 4:3, ADF, or daily 16:8 Smile

The 5:2 diet was introduced by Michael Mosely on BBC Horizon on August 2012:

Basically it is 2 very low cal days ("fasts") per week - which need not be consecutive - and eat "normally" to maintain on the other 5 days.

For those who have dieted or maybe overeaten for years, eating "normally"
means roughly the number of calories your body needs to maintain - NOT reduce - its weight (see TDEE calculator below).

IMPORTANT
If you have had past diagnosed Eating Disorders or serious MH problems you should NOT do 5:2 or any other kind of fasting

ACRONYMS

16:8 is a different type of fasting, which can be combined with 5:2.
Daily zero-cal fast for 16 hours and eat within an 8 hour window. To lose weight, this needs a weekly calorie deficit as well

4:3 = fast on 3 non-consecutive days per week

ADF (Alternate-Day Fasting) = fast every other day

b2b (optional) back-to-back / consecutive fast days, each with an increased allowance of 650 calories instead of 500

BMI (Body Mass Index) healthy range is 18.5 - 24.9 for Caucasians. Upper limit may be 22 for some of Asian origin.

FD = single Fast Day: aim for 500 calories (600 for men or 25% TDEE whichever is higher) or 1000 cals for BF
No alcohol or junk on FDs
Even if you exercise strenuously, do NOT increase FD cals to allow for exercise

MFP = My Fitness Pal, a useful App or website to track food & drink calories

miniFD = MiniFD, 850- 1000 calories, no alcohol or junk

NFD = Non-Fast Day, averages around TDEE

NSV / LSV = Non Scale Victory / LifeStyle (change) Victory, e.g. compliment, smaller waist, clothes size

SV = Scale Victory

TDEE = Total Daily Energy Expenditure, the average number of calories you burn in a day, is calculated (see calculators below) from your current weight, height, age, activity level.
Aim to average about this for NFDs.

WOE / WOL = Way Of Eating / Way Of Life. We say this instead of "diet", to emphasise that we must make a permanent change in how we eat, to mainitain our new healthy weight longterm.

HOW TO START

. Take initial measurements: weight, waist, hips
. Use TDEE calculator below if you need a rough guide to how much to eat on NFDs
. Choose any 2 days for FDs, non-consecutive is easier.
. Before each FD: plan, shop & calorie count ALL food & drink for the day

Useful Resources & Calculators

Calorie Counter: mfp
Rough Calories for NFD: Mosely TDEE Calc (exercisers: set activity level to one below what you think)
BMI: Calc
Ideal Weight & Body Frame Size: Calc Wt Frame
Body Fat: BFat Calc
Choose / Visualise Goal Weight:
3D BMI body types ripped to normal
Bod Vis Measurements & 3D rotate]]

Safe Alcohol Calc: Calc Units Cals

FD Recipes:
Mosely LowCarb , low carb Diet Doc
BBC Good Food 52 , BBC Good Food 500 cal meals ,
Good2Know , Foodie Under 200 Cals
Vegetarian ,

FD Ready Meals, Fast Food

Any Day:
Meal Planner

FAQs / Tips

  • WATER: Start each day with a glass of water; and drink plenty during the day.
  • HOT DRINKS: No limits on tea or coffee, but on FDs count any milk / sugar calories.
  • SLEEP: Try to get enough sleep, or it may slow weight loss.
  • EXERCISE: is healthy & can help weight loss - BUT only if you do NOT eat back less than you burn. Fasted training can burn more fat.
HIIT and resistance training both work well with 5:2/IF.
  • FDs: If possible, choose days when you are busy, but not preparing meals for others.
Concentrate on protein & veg; avoid sugar or fruit juice. e.g. Stir-fries, soups & stews. Ready meals are OK.
  • BFers: start with 1000-cal FDs, optionally reduce to 700 cals gradually.
You can return to 1000 if growth spurts or sleep-deprivation require more fuel.
  • NFDs: No rules, but to improve health, try to cut down on added sugar & junk food, keep alcohol within safe limits. A few treats per week are fine.
  • Do NOT fast: if you've ever had EDs, or if pregnant, under 21, over-stressed, fever, stomach bug, even a bad cold.
  • CHECK with your Doctor: if you have diabetes, any other endocrine condition, any serious past or present medical condition, or if taking ANY prescribed medication (fasting may affect absorption rate)

Scientific Evidence for Fasting & Health

BBC article on the original Horizon program

Telegraph comments on 5:2 and gives a brief overview by Dr Mosley, useful for newbies.

This InterviewPart1 and InterviewPart2 with leading ADF researcher Dr Varady explains why fasting helps you to lose weight AND improves some health markers.

Fasting boosts "autophagy" = recycling of old cells
Yoshinori Ohsumi won the 2016 Nobel prize for Medicine for research into autophagy
NOBEL Lecture “Autophagy – An Intracellular Recycling System”

Prof. R Taylor (Newcastle Uni) won the 2013 Diabetes UK Banting Prize for his Twin Cycle Hypothesis re the cause of type 2 diabetes: Twin Cycle Hypothesis T2
and showed a fasting diet could reverse T2

Dr Michelle Harvie (funded by cancer charities) showed possible benefits of intermittent fasting compared to standard daily calorie reduction in her trials (consecutive FDs) with women at high risk of breast cancer: ComparingDiets , EarlierResearch52

Dr Johnson showed intermittent fasting helped Asthma

HORMESIS & Why Intermittent Fasting Works: Mattson , BlackSwan and Hormesis

Molecular Mechanisms and Clinical Applications: J CellMetabolism
Recent research into the health benefits of fasting: e.g. by world-respected neuroscientist Dr MarkMattson (Mosely referred to his research) showed:

. Improved glucose regulation
. Loss of abdominal fat with maintenance of muscle mass
. Reduced blood pressure and heart rate
. Improved learning and memory and motor function
. Protection of neurons in the brain against dysfunction and degeneration in animal models of Alzheimer’s disease, Parkinson’s disease, stroke and Huntington’s disease.

Brain metabolism in health, aging, andneurodegeneration :
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

He compared 5:2 to ordinary daily diets on overweight women with family history of breast cancer.
Fasting group lost more belly fat, retained more muscle & had slightly better blood sugar regulation.

More of his research is in HealthyAging , Health , AvoidParkinsonsDisease

His article in J Aging Mech Disease 2015 explains the health benefits of intermittent fasting in great scientific detail.

Why intermittent fasting and stopping snacking can lower your risk of serious diseases:
Meal frequency and timing in health and disease

Fasting can help maintain brain health during aging:
emboj.embopress.org/content/36/11/1474
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

This interview with leading researchers into fasting in combination with standard cancer treatment: ScientificDiscussion MoselyMattsonLongo and a LongoInterview

NY Times Fasting Overview

Research by other US and European scientists in this DailyTelegraph Article about the medicinal uses of fasting, for many serious conditions & diseases.

Recent trials with Type 2 diabetics and those at risk of having it used a form of daily fasting - skipping supper.
Their conclusions: eating 1-2 meals per day is better than several small meals for losing weight and controlling insulin levels, see Type2Paper

OP posts:
Thread gallery
5
Clutterfreeintraining · 30/12/2019 20:59

Hi everyone!
It's been a while but I am, once again, attempting to get back on the wagon.
I'm starting with 16:8 this week to ease myself back in and then once school/work is back to normal I will fully embrace 5:2.
My first goal is to try and get into the 13st zone by the end of Feb...currently 14st 11lbs.
I hope everyone has had a good Christmas and managed to recharge the batteries a little.

BigChocFrenzy · 31/12/2019 09:24

Welcome back and good luck, clutter
Sounds a good plan to have this week

OP posts:
sparkle789 · 31/12/2019 18:06

Weighed in this morning and I’ve lost 4lbs since Friday woohoo!

BigChocFrenzy · 31/12/2019 18:21

Congratulations on your SV, Sparkle
Amazing at this time of year

OP posts:
BigChocFrenzy · 31/12/2019 23:56

I've been watching the fireworks along the Rhine

Happy 2020, 5:2ers !

OP posts:
Whattodowithaminute · 01/01/2020 10:02

Happy new year all. Congratulations on a great SV sparkle
I dread to think what the scales would say today so I’m not going to look until after 2nd FD next week-don’t want to be disheartened. Will get back on MFP from today for good quality NFD.

SydneyCarton · 01/01/2020 17:47

Brilliant SV sparkle, you must have a will of iron!

Weighed in this morning at 10:7:8, which means I’ve put on 3 pounds, probably more like 2 if some of that is water weight and undigested food. I’m okay with that and will get back to fasting and MFP on the 6th.

No alcohol for January except social occasions, and I only have one of those lined up, and no crisps/nuts/snacks once the Christmas ones are gone. I think my goal for this month will be 10 st 2 by the 31st, which is about a pound a week so fairly doable

Happy New Year everyone!

BigChocFrenzy · 01/01/2020 17:51

On my NYD walk, I saw one guy in his swimming trunks dive in Xmas Shock - it's been a warm Christmas & NY but not that warm

And one of the lads who were standing and paddling on boards decided to jump in too - fully clothed
He was fine too and paddled back to shore

I stayed dry !

OP posts:
Fillybuster · 01/01/2020 21:23

BCF - glad you stayed dry Grin I was watching the swimmers on Hampstead heath thinking “not on your nelly!!!” (although I love it in summer!).

Sparkle hugs congrats on your SV. How the heck did you manage that?! Shock

Whattodo, like you I’m up a bit (about 4-5lbs in my case I think) but pretty sure it will budge fairly fast once I get back into things. Managed to squeeze in a FD on Monday and a mini today but I don’t think that’s going to offset all the socialising...

Welcome / welcome back everyone and Happy New Year!!! A whole new decade - wow! GlitterballFlowersGrin

EssentialHummus · 02/01/2020 07:50

Hello all, signing in for my first 2020 FD. We’re driving home today so hopefully not much to tempt me.

bigchoc and filly we went to the Dutch coast yesterday to see hundreds of swimmers dipping in the water. Not for me (though I had to collar the toddler before she went in after them!).

aberjenagain · 02/01/2020 08:34

Morning all - happy new year!

Congrats on the sv sparkle!

I’m fasting with you today hummus. First day back at work here. Am about 5 lb up vs pre-Christmas, currently on 142 lb. hoping to shift it fairly quickly then get back to ‘proper’ loss again.

noseovertail · 02/01/2020 09:09

Morning everyone, wow sparkle a loss over the festive period is amazing...

So here starts my 5:2 attempt no.2 I just weighed in at 182lbs Blush although I was 196lbs when I first started this about 3 years ago (although I had got down to 162 lbs!) Sad hey ho, I cant focus on that now, hopefully I will be back there again in 2020.

Going to have an nfd today then fd planned for tomorrow

Good luck to anyone fasting today Smile

OohMrDarcy · 02/01/2020 10:32

Good morning all and a very happy 2020 to you!

I had planned to not weigh in until at least 2 FDs down in the new year but curiosity got the better of me and its not good news Blush

ho hum, its not the end of the world and I suspect will be gone again in a couple of weeks. It did represent me fully shutting off from the world and enjoying the period. I suspect it relates to some serious grazing I did and drinking more in the couple of weeks than I had in the previous 6 months.... just to clarify I didn't drink much at all, I just rarely drink now! Got through a bottle of prosecco, one of champagne and one of bucks fizz lol. Oh I also appear to have forgotten what water is.

Anyway - new year, fresh start and all that. I'm fasting today and just had water so far. About to stick a chilli in the slow cooker to have later which I'm looking forward to already!

loving seeing xmas SVs and better eating NSVs

Big choc - your turn for renovations I see! Glad your floor is done and fingers crossed the rest isn't too painful!

Today means I've kept going with 5:2 for a year, am so blinking proud of myself for that. It just feels part of my normal routine nowadays. Here's to 2020 bringing me a healthy BMI at some point!

BigChocFrenzy · 02/01/2020 11:13

Morning everyone, it's time to get back into the fasting swing for the new decade ! 🙂

Congratulations on your 5:2 anniversary, MrD 👏🏼 🤛🏼
You have achieved so much already and more milestones to come soon, I'm sure.

Good luck nose and any other returnees who've been absent a while
No beating yourself up - it just gives bruises; Move on, this is your shiny new start 🙂

Don't worry, MrD, filly, what and anyone else with a bit of holiday regain
If you tackle it quickly, then it goes quickly

A couple of kg can be undigested food and retained water due to excess carbs
Also if there was snacking between meals, then that will have stopped the usual NFD fat-burning that helps maintenance.

So, back to 5:2 healthy habits, especially
No snacking &
Drink water throughout the day

After all the feasting, try to give your tum a break this month from such social events

Filly, Hummus I concur with the "Not on your nelly !" re the hardcore NYD swimmers

Good luck nose, MrD, hummus, aber and any other fasters today

OP posts:
CheekyFucker · 02/01/2020 11:17

Hi there, hoping to join you for the first time although I have fasted previously with good results.

I will read through the thread and start in a couple of days once my head is in the right place.

Calledyoulastnightfromglasgow · 02/01/2020 11:36

Love your enthusiasm!

That’s me on a FD and I’m struggling already! Cold and irritable. I think it’s the sugar come down. Taking kids to cinema and Wagamamas later so I will have kimchi and green tea for dinner!

Good luck to everyone else on a FD today. This is as bad as it gets, right?!

Welcome cheekyfucker. I need more cheeky fuckers in my life Grin

sparkle789 · 02/01/2020 11:50

To be honest I’d binged so much in the lead up to Christmas that once Xmas day was done I just wanted to eat better and not feel sick constantly!
Fd today. I wasn’t planning on it but a few bad nights sleep meant I didn’t get up until 10.30 so as I’ll have a shorter day figured it made sense to fast. I’ll have soup for tea which I’m really looking forward to. I’ve got a couple of hours at work and then the opticians so as I’m busy it shouldn’t be to hard today.

Dh is going to start the 5:2 so it’ll be nice to have the support of doing it together. Is it 800cals for men on fds?

SydneyCarton · 02/01/2020 13:07

I think it’s 600 cals for men and 500 for women, but I don’t think 800 would hurt if he’s just starting off Smile

BigChocFrenzy · 02/01/2020 13:24

Welcome, cheeky 🙂 and good luck
Lots of useful info in the OP; especially check out the intro and "How to Start" sections

Good luck, glasgow, sparkle

sparkle The original 5:2 had 600 cals for men, but Mosely's new 5:2 found 800 works very well too and is easier, more sustainable
BUT
imo although 800 cal FDs usually bring a good rate of loss for men,
women usually need 500 cal FDs unless they either do 3 weekly 800 FDs,
or have a very high (for a woman) TDEE of 2400+, i.e. quite a lot to lose / very tall / very active & young

OP posts:
sparkle789 · 02/01/2020 13:35

Thank you, I’ll suggest he starts on 800 as he has a lot to lose then can always lower it in the future if needed.

aberjenagain · 02/01/2020 17:44

All done on about 550/600. The girls were at home today with DH and had made biscuits especially for me. They were super proud of themselves, so I couldn’t really say no!

Welcome cheeky!

OohMrDarcy · 02/01/2020 18:00

Kitchen closed on 511

EssentialHummus · 02/01/2020 18:15

Back in the UK and still haven’t eaten anything, from lack of organisation more than anything. Based on what we have in the cupboards it’ll be a FD meal of baked beans and broccoli. Not winning prizes today! Hope everyone else got on well.

Whattodowithaminute · 02/01/2020 18:44

Well done aber, MrD and hummus I caved and weighed-5lbs up-yuk...
DH has said he will take the kids out tomorrow for the day so I might get a FD or mini and a long swim in tomorrow.

noseovertail · 02/01/2020 19:12

Well done darcy and aber on your fds
Oh dear hummus hope you manage to rustle something up....

Successful Nfd here, my tdee is 1800 and I'm currently on 1600, feel like I have eaten loads so just going to forget that 200 and just have a cuppa once ds in bed.

Fd#1 tomorrow and dh back at work so just me and ds, hopefully we can go for a nice walk if weather improves and keep my mind of things! Probably check in here too for encouragement Grin anyone else fasting tomorrow?