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Fasting / 5:2 diet

Talk about intermittent fasting and 5:2, including what’s worked for others. Mumsnet hasn't checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. You may wish to speak to a medical professional before starting any diet.

5:2 Thread number 88: Anyone trying to pull you down is beneath you - come join our friendly & knowledgeable group to BOOST you up to goal

979 replies

BigChocFrenzy · 22/11/2019 00:06

Welcome to the continuing thread for those following 5:2 or other forms of IF (Intermittent Fasting) such as 4:3, ADF, or daily 16:8 Smile

The 5:2 diet was introduced by Michael Mosely on BBC Horizon on August 2012:

Basically it is 2 very low cal days ("fasts") per week - which need not be consecutive - and eat "normally" to maintain on the other 5 days.

For those who have dieted or maybe overeaten for years, eating "normally"
means roughly the number of calories your body needs to maintain - NOT reduce - its weight (see TDEE calculator below).

IMPORTANT
If you have had past diagnosed Eating Disorders or serious MH problems you should NOT do 5:2 or any other kind of fasting

ACRONYMS

16:8 is a different type of fasting, which can be combined with 5:2.
Daily zero-cal fast for 16 hours and eat within an 8 hour window. To lose weight, this needs a weekly calorie deficit as well

4:3 = fast on 3 non-consecutive days per week

ADF (Alternate-Day Fasting) = fast every other day

b2b (optional) back-to-back / consecutive fast days, each with an increased allowance of 650 calories instead of 500

BMI (Body Mass Index) healthy range is 18.5 - 24.9 for Caucasians. Upper limit may be 22 for some of Asian origin.

FD = single Fast Day: aim for 500 calories (600 for men or 25% TDEE whichever is higher) or 1000 cals for BF
No alcohol or junk on FDs
Even if you exercise strenuously, do NOT increase FD cals to allow for exercise

MFP = My Fitness Pal, a useful App or website to track food & drink calories

miniFD = MiniFD, 850- 1000 calories, no alcohol or junk

NFD = Non-Fast Day, averages around TDEE

NSV / LSV = Non Scale Victory / LifeStyle (change) Victory, e.g. compliment, smaller waist, clothes size

SV = Scale Victory

TDEE = Total Daily Energy Expenditure, the average number of calories you burn in a day, is calculated (see calculators below) from your current weight, height, age, activity level.
Aim to average about this for NFDs.

WOE / WOL = Way Of Eating / Way Of Life. We say this instead of "diet", to emphasise that we must make a permanent change in how we eat, to mainitain our new healthy weight longterm.

HOW TO START

. Take initial measurements: weight, waist, hips
. Use TDEE calculator below if you need a rough guide to how much to eat on NFDs
. Choose any 2 days for FDs, non-consecutive is easier.
. Before each FD: plan, shop & calorie count ALL food & drink for the day

Useful Resources & Calculators

Calorie Counter: mfp
Rough Calories for NFD: Mosely TDEE Calc (exercisers: set activity level to one below what you think)
BMI: Calc
Ideal Weight & Body Frame Size: Calc Wt Frame
Body Fat: BFat Calc
Choose / Visualise Goal Weight:
3D BMI body types ripped to normal
Bod Vis Measurements & 3D rotate]]

Safe Alcohol Calc: Calc Units Cals

FD Recipes:
Mosely LowCarb , low carb Diet Doc
BBC Good Food 52 , BBC Good Food 500 cal meals ,
Good2Know , Foodie Under 200 Cals
Vegetarian ,

FD Ready Meals, Fast Food

Any Day:
Meal Planner

FAQs / Tips

  • WATER: Start each day with a glass of water; and drink plenty during the day.
  • HOT DRINKS: No limits on tea or coffee, but on FDs count any milk / sugar calories.
  • SLEEP: Try to get enough sleep, or it may slow weight loss.
  • EXERCISE: is healthy & can help weight loss - BUT only if you do NOT eat back less than you burn. Fasted training can burn more fat.
HIIT and resistance training both work well with 5:2/IF.
  • FDs: If possible, choose days when you are busy, but not preparing meals for others.
Concentrate on protein & veg; avoid sugar or fruit juice. e.g. Stir-fries, soups & stews. Ready meals are OK.
  • BFers: start with 1000-cal FDs, optionally reduce to 700 cals gradually.
You can return to 1000 if growth spurts or sleep-deprivation require more fuel.
  • NFDs: No rules, but to improve health, try to cut down on added sugar & junk food, keep alcohol within safe limits. A few treats per week are fine.
  • Do NOT fast: if you've ever had EDs, or if pregnant, under 21, over-stressed, fever, stomach bug, even a bad cold.
  • CHECK with your Doctor: if you have diabetes, any other endocrine condition, any serious past or present medical condition, or if taking ANY prescribed medication (fasting may affect absorption rate)

Scientific Evidence for Fasting & Health

BBC article on the original Horizon program

Telegraph comments on 5:2 and gives a brief overview by Dr Mosley, useful for newbies.

This InterviewPart1 and InterviewPart2 with leading ADF researcher Dr Varady explains why fasting helps you to lose weight AND improves some health markers.

Fasting boosts "autophagy" = recycling of old cells
Yoshinori Ohsumi won the 2016 Nobel prize for Medicine for research into autophagy
NOBEL Lecture “Autophagy – An Intracellular Recycling System”

Prof. R Taylor (Newcastle Uni) won the 2013 Diabetes UK Banting Prize for his Twin Cycle Hypothesis re the cause of type 2 diabetes: Twin Cycle Hypothesis T2
and showed a fasting diet could reverse T2

Dr Michelle Harvie (funded by cancer charities) showed possible benefits of intermittent fasting compared to standard daily calorie reduction in her trials (consecutive FDs) with women at high risk of breast cancer: ComparingDiets , EarlierResearch52

Dr Johnson showed intermittent fasting helped Asthma

HORMESIS & Why Intermittent Fasting Works: Mattson , BlackSwan and Hormesis

Molecular Mechanisms and Clinical Applications: J CellMetabolism
Recent research into the health benefits of fasting: e.g. by world-respected neuroscientist Dr MarkMattson (Mosely referred to his research) showed:

. Improved glucose regulation
. Loss of abdominal fat with maintenance of muscle mass
. Reduced blood pressure and heart rate
. Improved learning and memory and motor function
. Protection of neurons in the brain against dysfunction and degeneration in animal models of Alzheimer’s disease, Parkinson’s disease, stroke and Huntington’s disease.

Brain metabolism in health, aging, andneurodegeneration :
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

He compared 5:2 to ordinary daily diets on overweight women with family history of breast cancer.
Fasting group lost more belly fat, retained more muscle & had slightly better blood sugar regulation.

More of his research is in HealthyAging , Health , AvoidParkinsonsDisease

His article in J Aging Mech Disease 2015 explains the health benefits of intermittent fasting in great scientific detail.

Why intermittent fasting and stopping snacking can lower your risk of serious diseases:
Meal frequency and timing in health and disease

Fasting can help maintain brain health during aging:
emboj.embopress.org/content/36/11/1474
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

This interview with leading researchers into fasting in combination with standard cancer treatment: ScientificDiscussion MoselyMattsonLongo and a LongoInterview

NY Times Fasting Overview

Research by other US and European scientists in this DailyTelegraph Article about the medicinal uses of fasting, for many serious conditions & diseases.

Recent trials with Type 2 diabetics and those at risk of having it used a form of daily fasting - skipping supper.
Their conclusions: eating 1-2 meals per day is better than several small meals for losing weight and controlling insulin levels, see Type2Paper

OP posts:
Thread gallery
5
moonlight1705 · 24/12/2019 22:32

Happy Christmas to you all, hope everyone has a lovely holidays.

Really pleased to be starting this Christmas at less than 19st given I was 21st last year. Next Christmas will be even better!

SydneyCarton · 24/12/2019 23:00

Finished yesterday’s mini on just over 1000 cals. Weighed myself this morning and have stayed the same as Thursday (10 st 4) despite a rather indulgent weekend. No more fasting or logging on MFP now until I’m back at work on the 6th but will take the chance to do a mini or two if possible. Happy holidays to everyone Xmas Smile

BigChocFrenzy · 24/12/2019 23:16

Congratulations on your SVs, Moonlight, 3kids
You'll start the NY in a good position to resume losing

Well done on your FD, aber and your mini FD, Sydney

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inthethickofit19 · 27/12/2019 08:45

Will catch up tonight (going on a long journey) but just wanted to say hope everyone had a lovely few days.

I last weighed in at 10stone 0.9lbs which I was pleased with but really need to get back on it properly in order to meet a mini goal for a family wedding

inthethickofit19 · 27/12/2019 08:45

In April!

Didn't mean to post so quick.

Grin
BigChocFrenzy · 27/12/2019 11:57

Well done, inthethick
So near to the milestone of 9 stone something

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inthethickofit19 · 27/12/2019 18:58

Thanks BCF!

moonlight1705 · 28/12/2019 08:56

I weighed this morning and after a week which has included Christmas then I have stayed exactly the same Grin, not ever happened before.

Hope you are all having a lovely holiday. Xmas Smile

BigChocFrenzy · 28/12/2019 15:23

sts is brilliant after Christmas, moonlight Xmas Smile

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sparkle789 · 28/12/2019 19:47

Hi all.
I joined in on the last thread but then ended up with a cold that lingered for 3 weeks and then with the run up to Christmas I couldn’t get in the right frame of mind. I’m back in now though.
First fast day today and I’ve ended on 489 cals. The next few days are going to be difficult food wise as we have a few birthdays and party’s but I’ll do what I can, and try to be mindful of what I’m eating.

BigChocFrenzy · 28/12/2019 22:21

Well done on your FD, sparkle
It's good you've got rid of that persistent cold, so you can properly enjoy the hols

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Calledyoulastnightfromglasgow · 29/12/2019 18:32

Well done sparkle. Hard to fast when you are run down.

I have had some fairly full on days over Xmas. I can tell without weighing myself I have put on weight. So done a MFD today doing a full FD tomorrow before New Year’s Eve.

So annoyed that I can’t stop eating the chocolates I have been given on NFD. I have to get them out the house I think!!

Hope everyone else doing ok?

BigChocFrenzy · 29/12/2019 23:30

Don't worry, glasgow
Everyone is usually back around 2 January to quickly zap the regain and then resume loss

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Calledyoulastnightfromglasgow · 30/12/2019 07:48

Thanks bigchoc have gained three pounds which given I have s

Calledyoulastnightfromglasgow · 30/12/2019 07:49

Still exercised throughout highlights my gluttony Grin

Whattodowithaminute · 30/12/2019 07:56

I’m sure I’ve gained too glasgow it doesn’t feel good at all. Much respect to anyone who has managed FD over the last week.
I’ve just downloaded the olio app to (hopefully) get rid of the Christmas cake, mince pies, and everything else which is around the house-I don’t even like these things but hate wasting food so end up popping them in my mouth...
NYE is going to be quite full on as we have guests but should be ready to be back on MFP by NYD with first FD of 2020 when kids are back at school on the 7th....

Hope everyone has had a good break and the apartment is coming back together BCF

Calledyoulastnightfromglasgow · 30/12/2019 08:00

My downfall is the homemade food bizarrely. I hate wasting special food. So homemade mince pies or cakes with double cream - and boom - three pounds up!

I have been given a lot of chocolate - amazing chocolate - and I am not a “just a one” person!!! Hoping to take it on new year for others to devour!

moonlight1705 · 30/12/2019 08:19

I had the best way of getting rid of food, I made a trifle for Christmas Day and had a portion. We went to have some on 27th and the cream had gone off so had to chuck the whole lot Sad

Christmas cake is nearly finished and barely any chocolates in the house now so ready for a 7th Jan FD. Might have a mini one on 4th to ease me back in.

BigChocFrenzy · 30/12/2019 09:42

Over Christmas I had to cope with:
No hot water and
Hob electrics not connected
Xmas Grin !

Also, I'll still have 8 big boxes stacked in a corner until early March - which is when the cupboards I have ordered will be ready !

So, a work in progress, but mostly done

OP posts:
BigChocFrenzy · 30/12/2019 09:56

Don't worry if you've gained a few lb
Some will be undigested food plus retained water due to excess carbs

If tackled promptly - preferably within 2 weeks of the gain - most folk find that holiday gain can be zapped v quickly
The key is to not let your body get used to it - or to add more over January

If you've time for a quick FD, then this plus a good dump & a few wees can easily get rid of a kg or more.

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EssentialHummus · 30/12/2019 09:59

bigchoc glad the end is in sight for all that, these sorts of renovations can be so disruptive even without throwing xmas into the mix.

We're on holiday in Europe until the 2nd. I'm not fasting but going with "I'll eat something unhealthy if I actually want it, not just because it's there". May fast on the drive back, too.

Calledyoulastnightfromglasgow · 30/12/2019 10:37

Gosh - that is very disruptive over Xmas although maybe good if you can just shut the door on it all?

Another mini FD for me today as working. Meeting someone for lunch and plan to order a salas...

noseovertail · 30/12/2019 15:17

Afternoon everyone.... just logging on to mark my territory (so to speak) I did 5:2 fairly successfully over 18 months ago, there are some names on this thread that I recall from then (I have namechanged though so no-one will recognize me and I didn't post very much anyhow), the last 9 months have been super stressful and I am an emotional eater, so unfortunately, some (but hopefully not all) of the weight is back on. Going to start on the 2nd Jan so will know then what the damage is....

Anyway, looking forward to starting afresh, happy new year to everyone Grin

Fillybuster · 30/12/2019 17:05

Crikey BCF, that doesn’t sound like a relaxing Christmas! Are you ok?

Squeezing in a desperately needed FD before the NYE shenanigans....have gone from 9.7 after a b2b on 23/24th and somehow up to 9.12 Shock today....no gym, lots of meals with extended family and way way too much cheese!

Off for an hour long Pump class then veg tagine for supper. Feeling better already Smile

Happy new year everyone!

BigChocFrenzy · 30/12/2019 20:35

Welcome back in January, nose
and good luck Xmas Smile

How did your mini go, glasgow ?

Well done on your FD and exercise, filly
As posted, don't worry about a bit of holiday gain - it'll go quickly if you resume the full WOE promptly in the NY

I'm fine, thx Xmas Smile
tbh the Christmas "challenges" really didn't bother me; I'm just happy the floor is finished and my furniture is out of storage

Now I just have to be patient with boxes until early March when my extra cupboards come ....
I'll be retired then, so I'll have no excuse to delay sorting out all the STUFF I've somehow accumulated over the last decade Blush

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