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Fasting / 5:2 diet

Talk about intermittent fasting and 5:2, including what’s worked for others. Mumsnet hasn't checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. You may wish to speak to a medical professional before starting any diet.

5:2 Thread number 88: Anyone trying to pull you down is beneath you - come join our friendly & knowledgeable group to BOOST you up to goal

979 replies

BigChocFrenzy · 22/11/2019 00:06

Welcome to the continuing thread for those following 5:2 or other forms of IF (Intermittent Fasting) such as 4:3, ADF, or daily 16:8 Smile

The 5:2 diet was introduced by Michael Mosely on BBC Horizon on August 2012:

Basically it is 2 very low cal days ("fasts") per week - which need not be consecutive - and eat "normally" to maintain on the other 5 days.

For those who have dieted or maybe overeaten for years, eating "normally"
means roughly the number of calories your body needs to maintain - NOT reduce - its weight (see TDEE calculator below).

IMPORTANT
If you have had past diagnosed Eating Disorders or serious MH problems you should NOT do 5:2 or any other kind of fasting

ACRONYMS

16:8 is a different type of fasting, which can be combined with 5:2.
Daily zero-cal fast for 16 hours and eat within an 8 hour window. To lose weight, this needs a weekly calorie deficit as well

4:3 = fast on 3 non-consecutive days per week

ADF (Alternate-Day Fasting) = fast every other day

b2b (optional) back-to-back / consecutive fast days, each with an increased allowance of 650 calories instead of 500

BMI (Body Mass Index) healthy range is 18.5 - 24.9 for Caucasians. Upper limit may be 22 for some of Asian origin.

FD = single Fast Day: aim for 500 calories (600 for men or 25% TDEE whichever is higher) or 1000 cals for BF
No alcohol or junk on FDs
Even if you exercise strenuously, do NOT increase FD cals to allow for exercise

MFP = My Fitness Pal, a useful App or website to track food & drink calories

miniFD = MiniFD, 850- 1000 calories, no alcohol or junk

NFD = Non-Fast Day, averages around TDEE

NSV / LSV = Non Scale Victory / LifeStyle (change) Victory, e.g. compliment, smaller waist, clothes size

SV = Scale Victory

TDEE = Total Daily Energy Expenditure, the average number of calories you burn in a day, is calculated (see calculators below) from your current weight, height, age, activity level.
Aim to average about this for NFDs.

WOE / WOL = Way Of Eating / Way Of Life. We say this instead of "diet", to emphasise that we must make a permanent change in how we eat, to mainitain our new healthy weight longterm.

HOW TO START

. Take initial measurements: weight, waist, hips
. Use TDEE calculator below if you need a rough guide to how much to eat on NFDs
. Choose any 2 days for FDs, non-consecutive is easier.
. Before each FD: plan, shop & calorie count ALL food & drink for the day

Useful Resources & Calculators

Calorie Counter: mfp
Rough Calories for NFD: Mosely TDEE Calc (exercisers: set activity level to one below what you think)
BMI: Calc
Ideal Weight & Body Frame Size: Calc Wt Frame
Body Fat: BFat Calc
Choose / Visualise Goal Weight:
3D BMI body types ripped to normal
Bod Vis Measurements & 3D rotate]]

Safe Alcohol Calc: Calc Units Cals

FD Recipes:
Mosely LowCarb , low carb Diet Doc
BBC Good Food 52 , BBC Good Food 500 cal meals ,
Good2Know , Foodie Under 200 Cals
Vegetarian ,

FD Ready Meals, Fast Food

Any Day:
Meal Planner

FAQs / Tips

  • WATER: Start each day with a glass of water; and drink plenty during the day.
  • HOT DRINKS: No limits on tea or coffee, but on FDs count any milk / sugar calories.
  • SLEEP: Try to get enough sleep, or it may slow weight loss.
  • EXERCISE: is healthy & can help weight loss - BUT only if you do NOT eat back less than you burn. Fasted training can burn more fat.
HIIT and resistance training both work well with 5:2/IF.
  • FDs: If possible, choose days when you are busy, but not preparing meals for others.
Concentrate on protein & veg; avoid sugar or fruit juice. e.g. Stir-fries, soups & stews. Ready meals are OK.
  • BFers: start with 1000-cal FDs, optionally reduce to 700 cals gradually.
You can return to 1000 if growth spurts or sleep-deprivation require more fuel.
  • NFDs: No rules, but to improve health, try to cut down on added sugar & junk food, keep alcohol within safe limits. A few treats per week are fine.
  • Do NOT fast: if you've ever had EDs, or if pregnant, under 21, over-stressed, fever, stomach bug, even a bad cold.
  • CHECK with your Doctor: if you have diabetes, any other endocrine condition, any serious past or present medical condition, or if taking ANY prescribed medication (fasting may affect absorption rate)

Scientific Evidence for Fasting & Health

BBC article on the original Horizon program

Telegraph comments on 5:2 and gives a brief overview by Dr Mosley, useful for newbies.

This InterviewPart1 and InterviewPart2 with leading ADF researcher Dr Varady explains why fasting helps you to lose weight AND improves some health markers.

Fasting boosts "autophagy" = recycling of old cells
Yoshinori Ohsumi won the 2016 Nobel prize for Medicine for research into autophagy
NOBEL Lecture “Autophagy – An Intracellular Recycling System”

Prof. R Taylor (Newcastle Uni) won the 2013 Diabetes UK Banting Prize for his Twin Cycle Hypothesis re the cause of type 2 diabetes: Twin Cycle Hypothesis T2
and showed a fasting diet could reverse T2

Dr Michelle Harvie (funded by cancer charities) showed possible benefits of intermittent fasting compared to standard daily calorie reduction in her trials (consecutive FDs) with women at high risk of breast cancer: ComparingDiets , EarlierResearch52

Dr Johnson showed intermittent fasting helped Asthma

HORMESIS & Why Intermittent Fasting Works: Mattson , BlackSwan and Hormesis

Molecular Mechanisms and Clinical Applications: J CellMetabolism
Recent research into the health benefits of fasting: e.g. by world-respected neuroscientist Dr MarkMattson (Mosely referred to his research) showed:

. Improved glucose regulation
. Loss of abdominal fat with maintenance of muscle mass
. Reduced blood pressure and heart rate
. Improved learning and memory and motor function
. Protection of neurons in the brain against dysfunction and degeneration in animal models of Alzheimer’s disease, Parkinson’s disease, stroke and Huntington’s disease.

Brain metabolism in health, aging, andneurodegeneration :
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

He compared 5:2 to ordinary daily diets on overweight women with family history of breast cancer.
Fasting group lost more belly fat, retained more muscle & had slightly better blood sugar regulation.

More of his research is in HealthyAging , Health , AvoidParkinsonsDisease

His article in J Aging Mech Disease 2015 explains the health benefits of intermittent fasting in great scientific detail.

Why intermittent fasting and stopping snacking can lower your risk of serious diseases:
Meal frequency and timing in health and disease

Fasting can help maintain brain health during aging:
emboj.embopress.org/content/36/11/1474
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

This interview with leading researchers into fasting in combination with standard cancer treatment: ScientificDiscussion MoselyMattsonLongo and a LongoInterview

NY Times Fasting Overview

Research by other US and European scientists in this DailyTelegraph Article about the medicinal uses of fasting, for many serious conditions & diseases.

Recent trials with Type 2 diabetics and those at risk of having it used a form of daily fasting - skipping supper.
Their conclusions: eating 1-2 meals per day is better than several small meals for losing weight and controlling insulin levels, see Type2Paper

OP posts:
Thread gallery
5
BigChocFrenzy · 22/12/2019 08:14

Well done, Hummus

Welcome, frederica 🙂
and congratulations on your SV

Hardly anyone can continue their weight loss WOL over Christmas / NY, so don't worry too much about it
However, I strongly recommend noting down the date you resume, say Thursday 2 January, to make sure you actually do so

You can aim to sts, or more feasibly reduce regain, by trying to keep 5:2 Health Habits every day

  • NHS alcohol limits - daily & weekly
  • NEVER snack / graze between meals,
  • have sensible amount of treats (e.g. alcohol, lattes, crisps, sugary treats) BUT only part of a meal, not on their own
  • lots of water & veg
  • cut down on fizzy drinks, even diet ones (sparkling UNflavoured water is fine)

If you have a day during the break when you have no social events and your stomach needs a rest,
then - if you wish - you can quickly plan an ad hoc FD or miniFD

OP posts:
BigChocFrenzy · 22/12/2019 08:20

Also, do daily 12:12, which research indicates can benefit longterm health for most people

i.e. keep your daily eating window to no more than 12 hours,
e.g. first meal at 8am and finish last meal by 8pm

OP posts:
Calledyoulastnightfromglasgow · 22/12/2019 15:27

frederica welcome. big choc advice is spot on as usual

I’m planning a few mini FD - today is one. Anyone else?

Fillybuster · 22/12/2019 15:56

Slightly late (although earlier than usual!) FD check in to keep Hummus & BCF company. Thinking about doing a b2b with a second FD tomorrow as I’m feeling a little...ahem...heavy Blush today!

Thanks for the birthday wishes, Hummus. I was 9.8 on the day after overdoing things a bit on Wednesday afternoon & evening but still pretty chuffed with myself. However 72 hours of celebrations, involving a large amount of cheese, and a whole week out of the gym, have taken their toll...scales were a very unforgiving 9.12.8 Shock Shock this morning so FD today plus a full on hour of Pump first thing.

Chanukah begins this evening & everyone is coming to our house (so impressed by your latke making Hummus!) so I will have to ignore donuts & cakes piled to the ceiling but I’ve navigated a big social event at lunchtime with just carrot sticks and sprouts (& without anyone noticing!) so I reckon I can do this!!!

Congrats on your SVs Moonlight and Sydney!

BCF how’s the place looking now?

BigChocFrenzy · 22/12/2019 17:02

How are you doing, glasgow, filly ?

Happy Chanukah, filly, Hummus
Enjoy the donuts 🍩 !

Belated Happy Birthday, filly
< I won't distract with cake icons on an FD >

Nope, no FD today as too much nice food around
I don't do FDs if it means cancelling something really good, or it would become a "diet"

Finishing touches to flooring will be finished tomorrow
Then they'll have to rebuild a loo that they decided to dismantle Hmm
The bathroom & loo are not being renovated, so maybe it was to cope with one of those supercharged workmen's poos that MNers report Grin

I'll be spending Christmas sorting & unpacking my mountain of boxes and cases,
but I have a Boxing Day brunch buffet booked at my fav Rhine cafe along the path here Xmas Smile

OP posts:
Calledyoulastnightfromglasgow · 22/12/2019 19:19

Are you doing up your entire house bigchoc?!

Would love to try a Rhine cafe one day. Husband has German relatives so feel an affinity with it all.

I’m still full of the cold so done a mini FD day today. Enjoyed a large bowl of broth/onion soup for dinner and well over.

I agree about not missing stuff due to FD. I haven’t weighed myself for days though!

Calledyoulastnightfromglasgow · 23/12/2019 08:24

I have lost another pound, despite eating to excess on NFD. I probably only manage 800 cal on FD so it’s still working well. But I have taken bigchoc advice if only a proper mini meal snack on NFD rather than grazing. This has helped control blood sugar.

I prob only want to lose another few pounds or I will be underweight for my height but at that point I might switch to one FD a week. I’m not leaving this way of life now!

I think we are conditioned to a norm that is so different to how we were decades ago. So I was “slim and fit” but in reality was carrying a stone of fat all over that was doing me no good.

Fillybuster · 23/12/2019 08:50

Well done on your SV Glasgow! Interesting point about what we are conditioned to see as “normal” - the media definitely doesn’t help with showing enough healthy/normal bodies!

FD went ok yesterday, although I had to duck flying donuts 😂 Definitely worked out better to be fasting than to try and make good food choices when we were around massive plates of non-poo-crumb food all day! Aiming for a b2b today. Closed out yesterday on just under 400 so I think that gives me some flex today, BCF? Back to 9.9 this morning, so fingers crossed the b2b will help me reset back to 9.7/9.8 before the hols. On the plus side, we don’t have any massive xmas plans, just lots of social stuff, and most of our plans over the next few days involve long walks with friends, so fingers crossed I’ll be able to maintain ok.
Anyone else fasting today?

Calledyoulastnightfromglasgow · 23/12/2019 11:18

A FD of 400 is impressive. I think I would struggle!

I’m doing a FD tomrrow. Good luck today.

aberjenagain · 23/12/2019 12:38

Well done on your FD filly and resisting the donuts Shock I am joining you today - damage limitation!

Congrats on your Sv glasgow

Season’s greetings/happy Hanukkah/merry Christmas etc to all Smile

moonlight1705 · 23/12/2019 14:40

I've done a mini FD today. We went to a cheese shop to get bits for Christmas. Didn't have any breakfast and had a ploughmans for lunch at this shop but for some reason it only came with ham and not cheese,... I suppose its different everywhere but has helped the calorie intake.

I'm doing a carol service at work tonight so won't have time for a big meal, toast perhaps.

SydneyCarton · 23/12/2019 14:58

Mini FD here as well - just tea and water while I'm at work, then a sensible evening meal and no alcohol. I'll weigh myself tomorrow morning and hope to stay the same, then take the brakes off a bit for the next few days and enjoy some treats. We all have the dentist on 2nd January tho, so not too many sweets Grin. It will be DS's first time there and I am silently calculating the odds of him (a) biting, (b) hitting or (c) both of the above plus full on banana-backed explosion of rage Hmm

Well done on the SV glasgow and the 400 FD filly

BigChocFrenzy · 23/12/2019 16:35

Well done on your FD, filly
Good luck Moonlight, aber, sydney

Congratulations on your SV glasgow

Ideal weight within healthy BMI depends on frame size - skeletal width - and muscle
So that could be at BMi 24 for some women and BMI 19 for others

I'd suggest you aim for the weight at which you can best perform at the sports you like
So make sure you build enough muscle

OP posts:
Fillybuster · 23/12/2019 23:15

Well done everyone on sticking to FDs, MFDs & healthy NFDs in the face of massive challenge! Flowers

Reporting back on a surprisingly successful 2nd FD, closed out at 550. Not quite the plan (I intended to eat more!) but two long gym classes meant not much time for supper before heading to the cinema with dh. I had allowed some calories for popcorn (pre counted and weighed, and yes, I know, snacking isn’t allowed) and an apple, but in the end I really didn’t fancy eating anything at all during the movie. I think that might be a complete first in my life!! Home now and chilling with a herbal tea before bed Halo Grin

Fingers crossed for scales tomorrow morning Smile

OohMrDarcy · 24/12/2019 09:31

Morning all

Going for a FD here today. Kids gone to their dads and I feel a bit sick with sadness anyway so makes sense to get one in whilst I can. They are back boxing day and we are having christmas then so looking forward to that.

Well done on all the lovely FD/ MFDs and of course the SVs!

Hope you all have a peaceful christmas x

Fillybuster · 24/12/2019 13:05

Sending lots of love and hugs your way MrD Flowers I love how you’re using this to turn a negative into a positive. Hope you manage to find some nice things to do with your time today and tomorrow - I’m sure you’ll have a fab day with the dcs on 26th!

Wishing everyone a merry Xmas, happy Chanukah, seasons greetings, lovely winterval and a generally relaxed and enjoyable few days. Thank you all for your support and encouragement over the last 5 months: I honestly couldn’t have done it without you Xmas GrinFlowersGlitterball

EssentialHummus · 24/12/2019 13:48

Thinking of you today mrd. I may get a FD in on the 26th as we're travelling anyway, otherwise happy holidays to you all. StarStarStar

BigChocFrenzy · 24/12/2019 14:08

{{{ MrD }}} 💐
That's so tough for you, but try to focus on the lovely time you'll have together on Boxing Day

Well done on your FD, filly
and on your movie NSV

OP posts:
BigChocFrenzy · 24/12/2019 14:09

Good idea to use the travelling day for an FD, Hummus
Often there's not much you fancy at pit stops, or it's very expensive

OP posts:
BigChocFrenzy · 24/12/2019 14:22

You've all been so supportive of each other
You're a lovely bunch 💐

Now you can relax and enjoy yourselves - until you resume after the break !

♪ღ♪•.¸¸¸.•¨¨•.¸¸¸.••.¸¸¸.•¨¨•.¸¸¸.•¨•.¸¸¸.•

HAPPY CHRISTMAS / CHANUKA / winter holiday

♪ღ♪•.¸¸¸.•¨¨•.¸¸¸.••.¸¸¸.•¨¨•.¸¸¸.•¨•.¸¸¸.•*•♪ღ

OP posts:
aberjenagain · 24/12/2019 17:32

Thinking of you mrd and hope you have a wonderful Boxing Day Christmas with your dcs.

Right back at ya bcf, thank you so much for all your guidance!

Well done on your (mini)FDs moonlight, sydney and filly

Fd done yesterday on about 550. Think we could be in for an ‘interesting’ Christmas - elder dd had a funny tummy yesterday morning, and now younger dd has a temp and sore tummy and looking very peaky... Shock One way to maintain/lose over the Xmas period I suppose Wink

Calledyoulastnightfromglasgow · 24/12/2019 20:09

Lots of love mrsD and not long until Boxing Day. I have a good friend in the same position for the first year.

Thanks for everyone’s support. Lovely group on here.

Hope there isn’t unintentional weight loss aber

Calledyoulastnightfromglasgow · 24/12/2019 20:10

Happy Christmas to everyone else!

emcla · 24/12/2019 20:51

Merry Christmas everyone. Thanks for all your great support. I’ll be back in the new year. X

3kidsareenough · 24/12/2019 21:28

Happy Christmas you lovely bunch of fasters 🎄🎄☃️☃️ I have been sticking to my two fast days up until today. Have 1 stone and 2 lbs off - am fitting into some lovely Xmas clothes and am truly delighted. I know I'm not great at taking part in the discussions on here but I do follow all your posts and advice- ye are fantastic- well done to all and here's to a great new year with great health for us all xx bigchoc your truly a great help and inspiration thank you. Happy Christmas all Xmas Wink