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Fasting / 5:2 diet

Talk about intermittent fasting and 5:2, including what’s worked for others. Mumsnet hasn't checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. You may wish to speak to a medical professional before starting any diet.

5:2 Thread number 88: Anyone trying to pull you down is beneath you - come join our friendly & knowledgeable group to BOOST you up to goal

979 replies

BigChocFrenzy · 22/11/2019 00:06

Welcome to the continuing thread for those following 5:2 or other forms of IF (Intermittent Fasting) such as 4:3, ADF, or daily 16:8 Smile

The 5:2 diet was introduced by Michael Mosely on BBC Horizon on August 2012:

Basically it is 2 very low cal days ("fasts") per week - which need not be consecutive - and eat "normally" to maintain on the other 5 days.

For those who have dieted or maybe overeaten for years, eating "normally"
means roughly the number of calories your body needs to maintain - NOT reduce - its weight (see TDEE calculator below).

IMPORTANT
If you have had past diagnosed Eating Disorders or serious MH problems you should NOT do 5:2 or any other kind of fasting

ACRONYMS

16:8 is a different type of fasting, which can be combined with 5:2.
Daily zero-cal fast for 16 hours and eat within an 8 hour window. To lose weight, this needs a weekly calorie deficit as well

4:3 = fast on 3 non-consecutive days per week

ADF (Alternate-Day Fasting) = fast every other day

b2b (optional) back-to-back / consecutive fast days, each with an increased allowance of 650 calories instead of 500

BMI (Body Mass Index) healthy range is 18.5 - 24.9 for Caucasians. Upper limit may be 22 for some of Asian origin.

FD = single Fast Day: aim for 500 calories (600 for men or 25% TDEE whichever is higher) or 1000 cals for BF
No alcohol or junk on FDs
Even if you exercise strenuously, do NOT increase FD cals to allow for exercise

MFP = My Fitness Pal, a useful App or website to track food & drink calories

miniFD = MiniFD, 850- 1000 calories, no alcohol or junk

NFD = Non-Fast Day, averages around TDEE

NSV / LSV = Non Scale Victory / LifeStyle (change) Victory, e.g. compliment, smaller waist, clothes size

SV = Scale Victory

TDEE = Total Daily Energy Expenditure, the average number of calories you burn in a day, is calculated (see calculators below) from your current weight, height, age, activity level.
Aim to average about this for NFDs.

WOE / WOL = Way Of Eating / Way Of Life. We say this instead of "diet", to emphasise that we must make a permanent change in how we eat, to mainitain our new healthy weight longterm.

HOW TO START

. Take initial measurements: weight, waist, hips
. Use TDEE calculator below if you need a rough guide to how much to eat on NFDs
. Choose any 2 days for FDs, non-consecutive is easier.
. Before each FD: plan, shop & calorie count ALL food & drink for the day

Useful Resources & Calculators

Calorie Counter: mfp
Rough Calories for NFD: Mosely TDEE Calc (exercisers: set activity level to one below what you think)
BMI: Calc
Ideal Weight & Body Frame Size: Calc Wt Frame
Body Fat: BFat Calc
Choose / Visualise Goal Weight:
3D BMI body types ripped to normal
Bod Vis Measurements & 3D rotate]]

Safe Alcohol Calc: Calc Units Cals

FD Recipes:
Mosely LowCarb , low carb Diet Doc
BBC Good Food 52 , BBC Good Food 500 cal meals ,
Good2Know , Foodie Under 200 Cals
Vegetarian ,

FD Ready Meals, Fast Food

Any Day:
Meal Planner

FAQs / Tips

  • WATER: Start each day with a glass of water; and drink plenty during the day.
  • HOT DRINKS: No limits on tea or coffee, but on FDs count any milk / sugar calories.
  • SLEEP: Try to get enough sleep, or it may slow weight loss.
  • EXERCISE: is healthy & can help weight loss - BUT only if you do NOT eat back less than you burn. Fasted training can burn more fat.
HIIT and resistance training both work well with 5:2/IF.
  • FDs: If possible, choose days when you are busy, but not preparing meals for others.
Concentrate on protein & veg; avoid sugar or fruit juice. e.g. Stir-fries, soups & stews. Ready meals are OK.
  • BFers: start with 1000-cal FDs, optionally reduce to 700 cals gradually.
You can return to 1000 if growth spurts or sleep-deprivation require more fuel.
  • NFDs: No rules, but to improve health, try to cut down on added sugar & junk food, keep alcohol within safe limits. A few treats per week are fine.
  • Do NOT fast: if you've ever had EDs, or if pregnant, under 21, over-stressed, fever, stomach bug, even a bad cold.
  • CHECK with your Doctor: if you have diabetes, any other endocrine condition, any serious past or present medical condition, or if taking ANY prescribed medication (fasting may affect absorption rate)

Scientific Evidence for Fasting & Health

BBC article on the original Horizon program

Telegraph comments on 5:2 and gives a brief overview by Dr Mosley, useful for newbies.

This InterviewPart1 and InterviewPart2 with leading ADF researcher Dr Varady explains why fasting helps you to lose weight AND improves some health markers.

Fasting boosts "autophagy" = recycling of old cells
Yoshinori Ohsumi won the 2016 Nobel prize for Medicine for research into autophagy
NOBEL Lecture “Autophagy – An Intracellular Recycling System”

Prof. R Taylor (Newcastle Uni) won the 2013 Diabetes UK Banting Prize for his Twin Cycle Hypothesis re the cause of type 2 diabetes: Twin Cycle Hypothesis T2
and showed a fasting diet could reverse T2

Dr Michelle Harvie (funded by cancer charities) showed possible benefits of intermittent fasting compared to standard daily calorie reduction in her trials (consecutive FDs) with women at high risk of breast cancer: ComparingDiets , EarlierResearch52

Dr Johnson showed intermittent fasting helped Asthma

HORMESIS & Why Intermittent Fasting Works: Mattson , BlackSwan and Hormesis

Molecular Mechanisms and Clinical Applications: J CellMetabolism
Recent research into the health benefits of fasting: e.g. by world-respected neuroscientist Dr MarkMattson (Mosely referred to his research) showed:

. Improved glucose regulation
. Loss of abdominal fat with maintenance of muscle mass
. Reduced blood pressure and heart rate
. Improved learning and memory and motor function
. Protection of neurons in the brain against dysfunction and degeneration in animal models of Alzheimer’s disease, Parkinson’s disease, stroke and Huntington’s disease.

Brain metabolism in health, aging, andneurodegeneration :
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

He compared 5:2 to ordinary daily diets on overweight women with family history of breast cancer.
Fasting group lost more belly fat, retained more muscle & had slightly better blood sugar regulation.

More of his research is in HealthyAging , Health , AvoidParkinsonsDisease

His article in J Aging Mech Disease 2015 explains the health benefits of intermittent fasting in great scientific detail.

Why intermittent fasting and stopping snacking can lower your risk of serious diseases:
Meal frequency and timing in health and disease

Fasting can help maintain brain health during aging:
emboj.embopress.org/content/36/11/1474
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

This interview with leading researchers into fasting in combination with standard cancer treatment: ScientificDiscussion MoselyMattsonLongo and a LongoInterview

NY Times Fasting Overview

Research by other US and European scientists in this DailyTelegraph Article about the medicinal uses of fasting, for many serious conditions & diseases.

Recent trials with Type 2 diabetics and those at risk of having it used a form of daily fasting - skipping supper.
Their conclusions: eating 1-2 meals per day is better than several small meals for losing weight and controlling insulin levels, see Type2Paper

OP posts:
Thread gallery
5
BigChocFrenzy · 18/12/2019 18:11

Good luck, Sydney
Keep drinking water
You might also enjoy hot Bovril (only 10 cals, so doesn't count as breaking the fast)

Glasgow I will be a shameless lady of leisure Xmas Grin although I am already v pt in my final year

I will increase my gym days from 5 to 6
Daily Rhine walks, which is why I moved to be right on the bank
Even more Kindle books
Continued MNing, natch
Keeping an eye on new science in several topics

OP posts:
Whattodowithaminute · 18/12/2019 21:23

Sounds great BCF and a good time of year as the days start to get longer again. I haven’t managed a FD this week and have thrown the rule book out of the window for a couple of days too-snacking has occurred aplenty. TOTM from today and it turns me into a hungry, angry, tired person then I try to prop myself up with sugar or generally eat to make myself feel better.... I know it’s not right and then I feel worse about it...sigh...
hope everyone else doing ok and feeling positive....

SydneyCarton · 18/12/2019 21:39

FD finished on 634. Had a teaspoon of marmite when I got home, actually quite quite liked it Blush. Quiche and salad and a leftover hard boiled egg for dinner. Hope the other Wednesday fasters have had good days too!

aberjenagain · 18/12/2019 23:21

Sheepishly poking my head ‘round the door. I’ve rather fallen off the wagon 🙈 Oh well. I WILL fast on Thursday, and will try to get another one in on Monday. Not weighing until after Xmas, otherwise I’ll just get disheartened and overeat to spite myself. Hope others are navigating the festive period more successfully!!

Well done on your fd sydney

Your retirement plans sound like bliss bcf

BigChocFrenzy · 18/12/2019 23:43

Well done on a good FD, sydney

No problem, What, aber
I suggest you have a break from fasting until say Thursday 2 January
BUT
Roughly plan and eat decent meals, 2-4 per day, so you don't feel hungry between

  • try to keep the No Snacking rule and drink more water
OP posts:
SydneyCarton · 19/12/2019 07:18

Well this is a pleasant surprise for a Thursday morning! I started posting on the thread at the start of November after weighing myself at my parents house, expecting to be around 10 1/2 stone and actually came in at 10 st 12, which was a bit of a wake up call about how much I was really eating on NFDs. Since then I’ve been logging on MFP almost every day, cut right back on snacks (no alcohol or crisps for November was tough!) and tried to be more aware of what I’m consuming.

I finally got round to buying my own set of scales and just weighed myself this morning after FD 2; 10 st 4 lb! I am so pleased 😀 although I think the initial 10 st 12 might have been a bit more than my actual weight as I’d just eaten and their scales aren’t quite accurate. Still, it’s around six pounds in seven weeks and I’m pretty chuffed with that Grin

moonlight1705 · 19/12/2019 08:39

That's a lovely thing to find out just before Christmas sydney , just shows it can work if you stick the guidelines I suppose.

I am doing 2nd FD of the week today and have come to work with a marmite jar in hand ready for the afternoon headaches which I hate. I am going to take a break from FD over Christmas but try and do the no snacks thing every day maybe not Christmas Day

aberjenagain · 19/12/2019 09:56

Thanks bcf. Am fasting today as I'm feeling good about it, but think this might be my last one until the new year (unless I really feel like doing one for some reason!)

Sydney fab SV, congrats!

BigChocFrenzy · 19/12/2019 10:04

Congratulations on your SV, Sydney
A good way to enter the long holiday season

Good luck today, moonlight, aber and any other Thursday fasters

Unless anyone is desperate to keep losing over the vacation (whether for health or for a v special social event next year)
I suggest relaxing and taking a break from fasting, say from this coming Monday 23 Dec until Thursday 2 Jan

You might find an odd day when you wake up stuffed and with no social events, so you sneak in an FD,
but don't force it

Just try to keep healthy 5:2 holiday habits:

  • NHS alcohol limits - daily & weekly
  • NEVER snack / graze between meals,
  • have sensible amount of Christmas treats BUT only part of a meal, not on their own
  • lots of water & veg
  • cut down on fizzy drinks, even diet ones (sparkling UNflavoured water is fine)
  • a brisk walk or jog outside on any fine days

What is also important is to note down NOW the date of your 1st FD in the NY,
so that you don't have to come back months later with an extra stone or 3.

OP posts:
Calledyoulastnightfromglasgow · 19/12/2019 12:19

Woo sydney, well done

I’m having a FD.

I am planning on having a FD on the 23rd and 29th because if I don’t, it will all go to pot!

BigChocFrenzy · 19/12/2019 12:23

Good luck, Glasgow
I'll probably have a WE b2b

OP posts:
moonlight1705 · 19/12/2019 18:05

Done today on 598 calories and feeling pretty good actually. I did have the spoon of marmite which seems to help.

BigChocFrenzy · 19/12/2019 19:30

Well done on a successful FD, moonlight

OP posts:
aberjenagain · 19/12/2019 21:29

Done on 670ish. Well done moonlight!

SydneyCarton · 19/12/2019 23:00

Thank you Grin It’s a good feeling to know that following “the rules” pays off and I’m headed in the right direction. Next goal is 10 stone, which I’ve been at before, and possibly 9 st 10 as a final goal weight. That would give me a BMI of 22.6 so comfortably within normal weight range.

I’ve had quite an indulgent day food-wise but back on eating sensibly tomorrow. Busy over the weekend (aren’t we all!) so will try to make good choices. Last working day on Monday and will aim for a mini FD, then no more fasting for a couple of weeks, although if I can sneak in a mini or two I will.

Well done on the Thursday fast aber, glasgow, moonlight

Calledyoulastnightfromglasgow · 20/12/2019 00:45

What do you define as a mini fast sydney? I think I have done my own version of those recently on days I have been eating out at night.

I did OK today but am fighting off the cold that everyone has and by dinner, my body was telling me to eat a little more so I did.

SydneyCarton · 20/12/2019 07:42

Hi glasgow - BigChoc can no doubt confirm this, but I think a mini FD is 800-1000 calories, no alcohol/junk/ snacks, basically same guidelines as a proper FD but with a higher allowance Smile

BigChocFrenzy · 20/12/2019 08:34

Well done on your FD, aber

That's exactly right about the miniFD, Sydney
I hope you get rid of that cold soon, glasgow

OP posts:
moonlight1705 · 21/12/2019 07:24

A nice 2lb loss this week just before hitting the Christmas madness. Luckily it's only the three of us this year so I can really reduce the snacking and alcohol consumption.

Hope you are all having a lovely pre Christmas weekend.

Whattodowithaminute · 21/12/2019 07:37

Well done moonlight great achievement!

EssentialHummus · 21/12/2019 09:07

Well done moonlight!

Happy birthday for Thursday filly, I hope you had a wonderful day with family. And happy holidays for tomorrow - I thought of you this morning as I eyed up 2.5kg of potatoes that need grating, sitting on my kitchen counter Grin.

How’s maintenance going Hummus? Are you doing 2 FDs and eating back calories on NFDs?

I'm a bit higgedly-piggedly about it - I'll always do one FD a week, but if immediately after that FD the scales show I'm above my goal weight, I'll do a b2b. Initially I carried on with two FDs (with higher calorie allowance) but I was still losing.

FD today - possibly the last of the year (?). Anyone else in?

BigChocFrenzy · 21/12/2019 09:12

Congratulations on your SV, Moonlight

Yesterday was frenetic for me, because the guys finishing the new wood flooring still hadn't finished - 4 days late ! - when the removal firm came with my furniture from storage
ARRRGH !

The removals were stepping over the electric cables & machinery of the floor guys, who insisted their work would be no trouble Hmm

Anyway, we all survived without any murders, all my stuff has arrived and the finishing touches to the floor will be completed on Monday

Now I must nip off to get leather, wood & glass polish to buff everything up after storage
A busy weekend

Christmas will involve taking things out of boxes and into cupboards
then measuring up to order a few new highboards

OP posts:
BigChocFrenzy · 21/12/2019 09:15

I'm joining you as well, hummus - a miniFD as usual
I might make it a b2b mini, as this weekend will be so busy and I have training too - FDs are useful to gain extra time

OP posts:
EssentialHummus · 21/12/2019 19:13

Gosh, how stressful bigchoc! Sounds like you'll have a productive time getting everything where it should be.

Kitchen closed here - stir fry for lunch, soup for dinner, lots of coffees. Quite a tricky FD with the house overflowing with food, but glad I got it in.

Fredericacaca · 21/12/2019 23:21

Hello. After about 6 weeks of 5:2, I've suddenly realised that there must be MN threads and found you. Lost 9 or 10lbs so far, but a little worried about Christmas.

I had a lovely Christmas lunch with my parents today. Tomorrow I will be driving around 200 miles, so it's impossible to eat if I don't have any food in the car. I have an M&S mini roast beef dinner in the fridge for when I get home for 225 cals.

I might squeeze in another fasting day on Christmas Eve, as we are going to be ridiculously busy travelling & visiting elderly relatives who won't have food for us. After that, Friday is a normal working day, so I can fit in another.

Any advice on fitting 5:2 around Christmas gratefully received.