Meet the Other Phone. Only the apps you allow.

Meet the Other Phone.
Only the apps you allow.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Fasting / 5:2 diet

Talk about intermittent fasting and 5:2, including what’s worked for others. Mumsnet hasn't checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. You may wish to speak to a medical professional before starting any diet.

5:2 Thread number 88: Anyone trying to pull you down is beneath you - come join our friendly & knowledgeable group to BOOST you up to goal

979 replies

BigChocFrenzy · 22/11/2019 00:06

Welcome to the continuing thread for those following 5:2 or other forms of IF (Intermittent Fasting) such as 4:3, ADF, or daily 16:8 Smile

The 5:2 diet was introduced by Michael Mosely on BBC Horizon on August 2012:

Basically it is 2 very low cal days ("fasts") per week - which need not be consecutive - and eat "normally" to maintain on the other 5 days.

For those who have dieted or maybe overeaten for years, eating "normally"
means roughly the number of calories your body needs to maintain - NOT reduce - its weight (see TDEE calculator below).

IMPORTANT
If you have had past diagnosed Eating Disorders or serious MH problems you should NOT do 5:2 or any other kind of fasting

ACRONYMS

16:8 is a different type of fasting, which can be combined with 5:2.
Daily zero-cal fast for 16 hours and eat within an 8 hour window. To lose weight, this needs a weekly calorie deficit as well

4:3 = fast on 3 non-consecutive days per week

ADF (Alternate-Day Fasting) = fast every other day

b2b (optional) back-to-back / consecutive fast days, each with an increased allowance of 650 calories instead of 500

BMI (Body Mass Index) healthy range is 18.5 - 24.9 for Caucasians. Upper limit may be 22 for some of Asian origin.

FD = single Fast Day: aim for 500 calories (600 for men or 25% TDEE whichever is higher) or 1000 cals for BF
No alcohol or junk on FDs
Even if you exercise strenuously, do NOT increase FD cals to allow for exercise

MFP = My Fitness Pal, a useful App or website to track food & drink calories

miniFD = MiniFD, 850- 1000 calories, no alcohol or junk

NFD = Non-Fast Day, averages around TDEE

NSV / LSV = Non Scale Victory / LifeStyle (change) Victory, e.g. compliment, smaller waist, clothes size

SV = Scale Victory

TDEE = Total Daily Energy Expenditure, the average number of calories you burn in a day, is calculated (see calculators below) from your current weight, height, age, activity level.
Aim to average about this for NFDs.

WOE / WOL = Way Of Eating / Way Of Life. We say this instead of "diet", to emphasise that we must make a permanent change in how we eat, to mainitain our new healthy weight longterm.

HOW TO START

. Take initial measurements: weight, waist, hips
. Use TDEE calculator below if you need a rough guide to how much to eat on NFDs
. Choose any 2 days for FDs, non-consecutive is easier.
. Before each FD: plan, shop & calorie count ALL food & drink for the day

Useful Resources & Calculators

Calorie Counter: mfp
Rough Calories for NFD: Mosely TDEE Calc (exercisers: set activity level to one below what you think)
BMI: Calc
Ideal Weight & Body Frame Size: Calc Wt Frame
Body Fat: BFat Calc
Choose / Visualise Goal Weight:
3D BMI body types ripped to normal
Bod Vis Measurements & 3D rotate]]

Safe Alcohol Calc: Calc Units Cals

FD Recipes:
Mosely LowCarb , low carb Diet Doc
BBC Good Food 52 , BBC Good Food 500 cal meals ,
Good2Know , Foodie Under 200 Cals
Vegetarian ,

FD Ready Meals, Fast Food

Any Day:
Meal Planner

FAQs / Tips

  • WATER: Start each day with a glass of water; and drink plenty during the day.
  • HOT DRINKS: No limits on tea or coffee, but on FDs count any milk / sugar calories.
  • SLEEP: Try to get enough sleep, or it may slow weight loss.
  • EXERCISE: is healthy & can help weight loss - BUT only if you do NOT eat back less than you burn. Fasted training can burn more fat.
HIIT and resistance training both work well with 5:2/IF.
  • FDs: If possible, choose days when you are busy, but not preparing meals for others.
Concentrate on protein & veg; avoid sugar or fruit juice. e.g. Stir-fries, soups & stews. Ready meals are OK.
  • BFers: start with 1000-cal FDs, optionally reduce to 700 cals gradually.
You can return to 1000 if growth spurts or sleep-deprivation require more fuel.
  • NFDs: No rules, but to improve health, try to cut down on added sugar & junk food, keep alcohol within safe limits. A few treats per week are fine.
  • Do NOT fast: if you've ever had EDs, or if pregnant, under 21, over-stressed, fever, stomach bug, even a bad cold.
  • CHECK with your Doctor: if you have diabetes, any other endocrine condition, any serious past or present medical condition, or if taking ANY prescribed medication (fasting may affect absorption rate)

Scientific Evidence for Fasting & Health

BBC article on the original Horizon program

Telegraph comments on 5:2 and gives a brief overview by Dr Mosley, useful for newbies.

This InterviewPart1 and InterviewPart2 with leading ADF researcher Dr Varady explains why fasting helps you to lose weight AND improves some health markers.

Fasting boosts "autophagy" = recycling of old cells
Yoshinori Ohsumi won the 2016 Nobel prize for Medicine for research into autophagy
NOBEL Lecture “Autophagy – An Intracellular Recycling System”

Prof. R Taylor (Newcastle Uni) won the 2013 Diabetes UK Banting Prize for his Twin Cycle Hypothesis re the cause of type 2 diabetes: Twin Cycle Hypothesis T2
and showed a fasting diet could reverse T2

Dr Michelle Harvie (funded by cancer charities) showed possible benefits of intermittent fasting compared to standard daily calorie reduction in her trials (consecutive FDs) with women at high risk of breast cancer: ComparingDiets , EarlierResearch52

Dr Johnson showed intermittent fasting helped Asthma

HORMESIS & Why Intermittent Fasting Works: Mattson , BlackSwan and Hormesis

Molecular Mechanisms and Clinical Applications: J CellMetabolism
Recent research into the health benefits of fasting: e.g. by world-respected neuroscientist Dr MarkMattson (Mosely referred to his research) showed:

. Improved glucose regulation
. Loss of abdominal fat with maintenance of muscle mass
. Reduced blood pressure and heart rate
. Improved learning and memory and motor function
. Protection of neurons in the brain against dysfunction and degeneration in animal models of Alzheimer’s disease, Parkinson’s disease, stroke and Huntington’s disease.

Brain metabolism in health, aging, andneurodegeneration :
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

He compared 5:2 to ordinary daily diets on overweight women with family history of breast cancer.
Fasting group lost more belly fat, retained more muscle & had slightly better blood sugar regulation.

More of his research is in HealthyAging , Health , AvoidParkinsonsDisease

His article in J Aging Mech Disease 2015 explains the health benefits of intermittent fasting in great scientific detail.

Why intermittent fasting and stopping snacking can lower your risk of serious diseases:
Meal frequency and timing in health and disease

Fasting can help maintain brain health during aging:
emboj.embopress.org/content/36/11/1474
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

This interview with leading researchers into fasting in combination with standard cancer treatment: ScientificDiscussion MoselyMattsonLongo and a LongoInterview

NY Times Fasting Overview

Research by other US and European scientists in this DailyTelegraph Article about the medicinal uses of fasting, for many serious conditions & diseases.

Recent trials with Type 2 diabetics and those at risk of having it used a form of daily fasting - skipping supper.
Their conclusions: eating 1-2 meals per day is better than several small meals for losing weight and controlling insulin levels, see Type2Paper

OP posts:
Thread gallery
5
Whattodowithaminute · 16/12/2019 08:35

hummus Xmas Grin

bcf I have fond memories of German Christmas markets-chocolate bananas mmmm...

Checking in for FD today-think I
May have to b2b again this week then I might have time for a mini as well as Friday and Saturday are birthday celebrations for DH.
Anyone else joining?

BigChocFrenzy · 16/12/2019 11:55

Good luck, what and any other Monday fasters
Yep, sticks of chocolate bananas and chocolate grapes are lurking < dribbles >

< Xmas Grin bans hummus for multiple donut sabotage of the Monday fasting gang >

OP posts:
emcla · 16/12/2019 11:59

Hi hummus. I’m joining you. Might have to do a b2b as lots on socially.

Waves to everyone Crown Smile

BigChocFrenzy · 16/12/2019 14:21

Good luck, emcla
< waves back >

OP posts:
SydneyCarton · 16/12/2019 14:35

Monday FD here, following an accidental FD on Friday - I meant to only do a mini - around 1000 cals - but ended up feeling a bit queasy and unwell and went to bed early on around 630. Woke up on Saturday feeling rather hungover - despite no booze! - which I think was a result of not eating enough and certainly not drinking enough on Friday. On the plus side I still haven't fallen victim to the low level stomach bug that the children all seem to have to some degree, and they are all getting better, so hopefully we'll all be healthy for Christmas.

BigChocFrenzy · 16/12/2019 17:11

Good luck, Sydney
DRINK WATER !!
Also glug a level teasp Marmite, which can help avoid feeling weak and / or headachey

OP posts:
Fillybuster · 16/12/2019 18:19

Way behind on the thread and checking in very late after the day from hell. Not sure it really counts given ive had half a home made mince pie (made by someone who I absolutely promised I would try one if they brought some in) and some sea salt caramel/dark chocolate shards (made by me - no poo crumbs!) so probably 300 cal up already. Nothing else, though, & off to the gym now, so may be able to pull it in.

Need to...back to 9.10 this morning and my birthday is looming...determined to be 9.9 at the most on Thursday morning and have a big night out Wednesday night which won’t help!!

Cracking headache (despite marmite and water) and feeling pretty wiped but planning a b2b tomorrow.

emcla · 16/12/2019 20:10

Fd completed. Hope to fast tomorrow.

BigChocFrenzy · 16/12/2019 20:40

Well done, emcla

Good luck, filly
All that sugar when fasting may well have caused your headache
Maybe have a boiled egg ?

Try to have an early night

OP posts:
SydneyCarton · 16/12/2019 21:44

Finished on 802, so a mini FD for me. I’m not sure why I’m low on water intake BigChoc, I’m usually pretty good at knocking it back, especially when I was breastfeeding and had loads of bottles on the bedside table to rehydrate after the night feeds. Maybe I need to drop some hints for a proper water bottle for Christmas Grin

Well done emcla, hope your FD finished okay too filly

Whattodowithaminute · 16/12/2019 22:17

Aborted FD for me will try again tomorrow I think.
Well done emcla, filly and sydney

emcla · 17/12/2019 08:16

Good morning all. Anyone hopping on board the fasting train today ? I’m on board ! Come join me.

moonlight1705 · 17/12/2019 10:13

Me too emcla - I am resisting the birthday cake in the staff kitchen so far this morning although may need a cup of tea soon to warm up.

Got a lovely salad for lunch to which I'm looking forward.

emcla · 17/12/2019 11:32

Well done moonlight. I normally have soup for lunch on fast days but I’m going to wait until dinner to eat today.

BigChocFrenzy · 17/12/2019 12:32

Well done, Sydney

Good luck, emcla, moonlight, what

Well done on resisting the cake, moonlight
At this time of year, if you still want cake, I expect there'll be some tomorrow and on other NFDs this week

OP posts:
emcla · 17/12/2019 20:08

That’s me done for today. Going to skip breakfast and getting lunch provided at work tomorrow.

BigChocFrenzy · 17/12/2019 20:21

Well done, emcla

Today was my last work day of 2019
Then I only have 3 weeks in January, so 14-15 days, until I retire
< 😀 skips off happily >

OP posts:
moonlight1705 · 17/12/2019 20:32

Finished at 678 calories, not too bad. Resisted cake Smile and going to go for a mini FD tomorrow.

Wow, three weeks left of working! Are you celebrating at the end?

EssentialHummus · 17/12/2019 20:33

Oh my goodness bigchoc! That's very exciting. Too late for a prisoner-style five-bar gate tally on your office door? Grin

Well done em!

Fillybuster · 18/12/2019 00:00

Finally caught up from last week Blush - sorry for the delay in posting properly: work and home life have both been totally bonkers recently!

Emcla - sorry for the very late check in but I’ve been stealthily keeping you company over the last 2 days Checked out on day 2 at 600 with no mince pie failures to report Halo No headache either, so you’re probably right about the impact of having sugar on a FD, BCF

Moonlight huge congrats on your SV last week. Fortunately I don’t think “the Filly” counts as a unit of measurement anywhere so you’ll have to stick to regular systems!! Stick with it...lots of people find that not much shifts for ages and then your metabolism suddenly catches up and there’s a proper drop. Fingers crossed for you! Well done on cake resistance - I find that one of the hardest things to manage in the office Smile

Whattodo and MrD - is blood donation a sneaky way of getting rid of a lb or two?! Grin Seriously, good for you - I’m inspired to start again too in the new year Flowers

A 40 minute run....way to go Glasgow! I’m happy to do an hour class in the gym but even a 5 minute run is too much for me!Xmas Shock

Not sure I could resist a Christmas market on my doorstep, BCF. The lure of the glüwein must be immense?! I can’t believe you’re so close to full retirement....how are you feeling about it? I know we haven’t met but you seem so young & energetic in your posts it’s hard to imagine you hanging up your work boots....must admit I’m pretty envious! Xmas Envy All that gym and walking time...What are your plans?

How’s maintenance going Hummus? Are you doing 2 FDs and eating back calories on NFDs?

Hope the tummy bug hasn’t got you in it’s clutches Sydney?

Not only have Hummus & I got Chanukah looming (mmmmm...doughnuts and fried potato cakes in apple sauce...and yes BCF,doughnuts are pretty much holy writ...!) but it’s my Gin birthday Cake on Thursday (tasting menu with dh at new London restaurant with wine flyte for lunch and out with dcs for dinner too....) and I’m out at a big show with friends tomorrow evening too (pizza, mince pies and champagne will all feature)....scales were 9.7.6 this morning before my second FD but slightly scared what they will day after the next 2 days! Am planning to be somewhat careful tomorrow as I’m really keen to see something positive on the scales on Thursday morning!!

Phew! Think I’m all caught up. Sorry to anyone I missed (waves at Aber, Maz & Pineapple) and good luck to all the Wednesday fasters Xmas Grin

OohMrDarcy · 18/12/2019 08:59

Morning all

Fasting today and got chicken casserole in the slow cooker for later. kids will have with some kind of potato and I shall enjoy on its own.

Sorry not been around much, the time of year is hectic! I'm not weighing now until after christmas but still fitting in FDs when I can!

Filly - blood donation does drop a pound or so, but only temporarily until the blood has regenerated!

moonlight1705 · 18/12/2019 09:40

Mrd - how funny, got a chicken casserole tonight as well - obviously the weather for it.

BigChocFrenzy · 18/12/2019 10:49

Well done on your SV, filly

and on your FD, moonlight

Good luck, MrD

OP posts:
Calledyoulastnightfromglasgow · 18/12/2019 12:55

I haven’t checked in a while either.

Good luck for those on FDs.

I have had so many meals out that I haven’t managed a proper FD for a while. I still haven’t gained weight though so maybe my portion sizes are smaller. Also trying to stop snacking on NFDs and it’s going ok. Onwards and upwards!

Bigchoc - I’m exceedingly envious if you are retiring next year. What are your plans?

SydneyCarton · 18/12/2019 16:40

Wednesday FD here, just tea and water so far. Have remembered to drink more water this time and although I still have a bit of a headache it’s not as bad as Monday. Marmite when I get home, I think. En route to pick up a singing baby shark toy 😱 for the baby’s Christmas present; the batteries in that can’t run out quickly enough for me.

Swipe left for the next trending thread