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Fasting / 5:2 diet

Talk about intermittent fasting and 5:2, including what’s worked for others. Mumsnet hasn't checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. You may wish to speak to a medical professional before starting any diet.

5:2 Thread number 88: Anyone trying to pull you down is beneath you - come join our friendly & knowledgeable group to BOOST you up to goal

979 replies

BigChocFrenzy · 22/11/2019 00:06

Welcome to the continuing thread for those following 5:2 or other forms of IF (Intermittent Fasting) such as 4:3, ADF, or daily 16:8 Smile

The 5:2 diet was introduced by Michael Mosely on BBC Horizon on August 2012:

Basically it is 2 very low cal days ("fasts") per week - which need not be consecutive - and eat "normally" to maintain on the other 5 days.

For those who have dieted or maybe overeaten for years, eating "normally"
means roughly the number of calories your body needs to maintain - NOT reduce - its weight (see TDEE calculator below).

IMPORTANT
If you have had past diagnosed Eating Disorders or serious MH problems you should NOT do 5:2 or any other kind of fasting

ACRONYMS

16:8 is a different type of fasting, which can be combined with 5:2.
Daily zero-cal fast for 16 hours and eat within an 8 hour window. To lose weight, this needs a weekly calorie deficit as well

4:3 = fast on 3 non-consecutive days per week

ADF (Alternate-Day Fasting) = fast every other day

b2b (optional) back-to-back / consecutive fast days, each with an increased allowance of 650 calories instead of 500

BMI (Body Mass Index) healthy range is 18.5 - 24.9 for Caucasians. Upper limit may be 22 for some of Asian origin.

FD = single Fast Day: aim for 500 calories (600 for men or 25% TDEE whichever is higher) or 1000 cals for BF
No alcohol or junk on FDs
Even if you exercise strenuously, do NOT increase FD cals to allow for exercise

MFP = My Fitness Pal, a useful App or website to track food & drink calories

miniFD = MiniFD, 850- 1000 calories, no alcohol or junk

NFD = Non-Fast Day, averages around TDEE

NSV / LSV = Non Scale Victory / LifeStyle (change) Victory, e.g. compliment, smaller waist, clothes size

SV = Scale Victory

TDEE = Total Daily Energy Expenditure, the average number of calories you burn in a day, is calculated (see calculators below) from your current weight, height, age, activity level.
Aim to average about this for NFDs.

WOE / WOL = Way Of Eating / Way Of Life. We say this instead of "diet", to emphasise that we must make a permanent change in how we eat, to mainitain our new healthy weight longterm.

HOW TO START

. Take initial measurements: weight, waist, hips
. Use TDEE calculator below if you need a rough guide to how much to eat on NFDs
. Choose any 2 days for FDs, non-consecutive is easier.
. Before each FD: plan, shop & calorie count ALL food & drink for the day

Useful Resources & Calculators

Calorie Counter: mfp
Rough Calories for NFD: Mosely TDEE Calc (exercisers: set activity level to one below what you think)
BMI: Calc
Ideal Weight & Body Frame Size: Calc Wt Frame
Body Fat: BFat Calc
Choose / Visualise Goal Weight:
3D BMI body types ripped to normal
Bod Vis Measurements & 3D rotate]]

Safe Alcohol Calc: Calc Units Cals

FD Recipes:
Mosely LowCarb , low carb Diet Doc
BBC Good Food 52 , BBC Good Food 500 cal meals ,
Good2Know , Foodie Under 200 Cals
Vegetarian ,

FD Ready Meals, Fast Food

Any Day:
Meal Planner

FAQs / Tips

  • WATER: Start each day with a glass of water; and drink plenty during the day.
  • HOT DRINKS: No limits on tea or coffee, but on FDs count any milk / sugar calories.
  • SLEEP: Try to get enough sleep, or it may slow weight loss.
  • EXERCISE: is healthy & can help weight loss - BUT only if you do NOT eat back less than you burn. Fasted training can burn more fat.
HIIT and resistance training both work well with 5:2/IF.
  • FDs: If possible, choose days when you are busy, but not preparing meals for others.
Concentrate on protein & veg; avoid sugar or fruit juice. e.g. Stir-fries, soups & stews. Ready meals are OK.
  • BFers: start with 1000-cal FDs, optionally reduce to 700 cals gradually.
You can return to 1000 if growth spurts or sleep-deprivation require more fuel.
  • NFDs: No rules, but to improve health, try to cut down on added sugar & junk food, keep alcohol within safe limits. A few treats per week are fine.
  • Do NOT fast: if you've ever had EDs, or if pregnant, under 21, over-stressed, fever, stomach bug, even a bad cold.
  • CHECK with your Doctor: if you have diabetes, any other endocrine condition, any serious past or present medical condition, or if taking ANY prescribed medication (fasting may affect absorption rate)

Scientific Evidence for Fasting & Health

BBC article on the original Horizon program

Telegraph comments on 5:2 and gives a brief overview by Dr Mosley, useful for newbies.

This InterviewPart1 and InterviewPart2 with leading ADF researcher Dr Varady explains why fasting helps you to lose weight AND improves some health markers.

Fasting boosts "autophagy" = recycling of old cells
Yoshinori Ohsumi won the 2016 Nobel prize for Medicine for research into autophagy
NOBEL Lecture “Autophagy – An Intracellular Recycling System”

Prof. R Taylor (Newcastle Uni) won the 2013 Diabetes UK Banting Prize for his Twin Cycle Hypothesis re the cause of type 2 diabetes: Twin Cycle Hypothesis T2
and showed a fasting diet could reverse T2

Dr Michelle Harvie (funded by cancer charities) showed possible benefits of intermittent fasting compared to standard daily calorie reduction in her trials (consecutive FDs) with women at high risk of breast cancer: ComparingDiets , EarlierResearch52

Dr Johnson showed intermittent fasting helped Asthma

HORMESIS & Why Intermittent Fasting Works: Mattson , BlackSwan and Hormesis

Molecular Mechanisms and Clinical Applications: J CellMetabolism
Recent research into the health benefits of fasting: e.g. by world-respected neuroscientist Dr MarkMattson (Mosely referred to his research) showed:

. Improved glucose regulation
. Loss of abdominal fat with maintenance of muscle mass
. Reduced blood pressure and heart rate
. Improved learning and memory and motor function
. Protection of neurons in the brain against dysfunction and degeneration in animal models of Alzheimer’s disease, Parkinson’s disease, stroke and Huntington’s disease.

Brain metabolism in health, aging, andneurodegeneration :
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

He compared 5:2 to ordinary daily diets on overweight women with family history of breast cancer.
Fasting group lost more belly fat, retained more muscle & had slightly better blood sugar regulation.

More of his research is in HealthyAging , Health , AvoidParkinsonsDisease

His article in J Aging Mech Disease 2015 explains the health benefits of intermittent fasting in great scientific detail.

Why intermittent fasting and stopping snacking can lower your risk of serious diseases:
Meal frequency and timing in health and disease

Fasting can help maintain brain health during aging:
emboj.embopress.org/content/36/11/1474
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

This interview with leading researchers into fasting in combination with standard cancer treatment: ScientificDiscussion MoselyMattsonLongo and a LongoInterview

NY Times Fasting Overview

Research by other US and European scientists in this DailyTelegraph Article about the medicinal uses of fasting, for many serious conditions & diseases.

Recent trials with Type 2 diabetics and those at risk of having it used a form of daily fasting - skipping supper.
Their conclusions: eating 1-2 meals per day is better than several small meals for losing weight and controlling insulin levels, see Type2Paper

OP posts:
Thread gallery
5
BigChocFrenzy · 10/12/2019 18:41

What a rotten year for you, moonlight 💐

Well done on your FD, aber
How are you doing, filly ?

OP posts:
Whattodowithaminute · 10/12/2019 19:49

Sorry you have (and have had) so much to deal with over the last year moonlight really hope that your Dad gets some support as it’s sounds like he’s in a difficult place.

Fillybuster · 10/12/2019 22:42

Oh Moonlight, that sounds utterly rotten - sending you love and Flowers You can always vent on here if it all gets too much IRL

Aber, that sounds lush! I’ve had a bit of a pants FD - I was absolutely starving after my riding lesson so had a toasted cheese sandwich (two slices of bread and two slices of cheese, no butter - so not as bad as it could have been I suppose!) for lunch, which I suspect used up most of my calorie allowance for the day. Just soup (70cals) for supper and hoping I might just about get away with it.....!

Whattodowithaminute · 11/12/2019 08:10

Sounds like you will have got away with the FD filly well done-hope the scales are kind this morning.

Wednesday FD check in here-not feeling well organised for meals; maybe a Monday rerun with soup for lunch and salad for dinner would be easiest...
anyone else with me?

Calledyoulastnightfromglasgow · 11/12/2019 08:16

Moonlight - it takes its toll. Sometimes I do a cup of tea with milk and dark chocolate to soothe my nerve. Not great but stops me reaching for cake (nemesis)

Disorganised FD too today. Going to run at lunchtime so fingers crossed I can manage it. Will do a decent snack later

Anyone else?

moonlight1705 · 11/12/2019 08:43

I'm going to try for a FD day today, I had a decent mini one yesterday at around 1000 calories. Today I have my soup for lunch and I'm making a chicken and spinach curry later which is fairly low in calories - must not have too much rice!

Good luck Called with your disorganised FD Smile

aberjenagain · 11/12/2019 09:22

I'm joining you today called and moonlight - that curry sounds lovely!

aberjenagain · 11/12/2019 09:32

Thanks bcf for the fibre advice Smile I do like all those things but somehow stil struggle to incorporate enough of them into my diet! I often add seeds to my breakfast (usually greek yoghurt with fruit of some description). Also need to make some more buckwheat drop scones as they are a good source of fibre, go well with the yoghurt/fruit combo, and fill me up 'till lunchtime.

BigChocFrenzy · 11/12/2019 10:35

Good luck on your FD, Moonlight, What, aber, glasgow and any other Wednesday fasters

OP posts:
aberjenagain · 11/12/2019 10:55

Sorry, missed your post what! Good luck for your fd Smile

Whattodowithaminute · 11/12/2019 17:35

Kitchen closed on 500. How has everyone else done?

aber I need to hear more about your drop scones they sounds yum...!

moonlight1705 · 11/12/2019 19:54

Closed on 634 so feeling quite happy given this week.

Also very happy with my chicken and spinach curry, it was meant to have double cream but substituted in yogurt.

Well done what on the FD, pretty bang on calories.

5:2 Thread number 88: Anyone trying to pull you down is beneath you - come join our friendly & knowledgeable group to BOOST you up to goal
BigChocFrenzy · 11/12/2019 20:13

Well done, what, moonlight

Looks delic, moonlight

OP posts:
Whattodowithaminute · 12/12/2019 06:57

Yum moonlight that looks super tasty!

SV this morning 11st 9.6 just over 2lb down this week and putting me within reach of my first goal of 11st 7. I think if I can maintain this over Christmas it will be positive, have DH birthday with a lunch and dinner planned, then can get back into losing in the NY.

Good luck all.

OohMrDarcy · 12/12/2019 07:47

Morning all

Crazy buzy week here so far. Today is first day at home so fasting, got a beef casserole in the slow cooker for dinner.

This time of year is insane, might be first day at home but the car is being picked up by the garage, I have hair dressers booked, need to get DS hair cut after school and then DD to a youth theatre rehearsal... 😴 oh and fit in a days work too! Be glad when this week is over and things start to slow down ready for christmas!

SydneyCarton · 12/12/2019 09:29

I love it when a FD comes in bang on 500 what Grin

Planned mini FD yesterday went out of the window when I decided to try the katsu curry at Wagamama rather than the chicken yaki soba I usually get, and then discovered it was over 1100 calories 😱. That, plus a glass of wine and a couple of shared starters, put me just over TDEE plus 200 exercise cals Blush. Hey ho.

Will try again for a mini FD on Friday. Today is out as I have all three children thanks to school being used as a polling station, and DS has just thrown up....

BigChocFrenzy · 12/12/2019 10:10

Congratulations on your SV, what
Sounds a good plan

Good luck, MrD
Wow, you'll barely have time to draw breath, but a busy day does make fasting easier

Don't worry, Sydney Most of us have been caught out by innocuous looking restaurant dishes that turned out to be calorie bombs
Some roasts are 1600+, pizzas 2000+ and as you've found, curries may pile on the calories with creamy / oily sauces

If I have to eat out when fasting, I normally stick with a salmon salad with balsamic vinegar, not the house dressing;
always just the one course

Note: MiniFDs have the same food rules as FDs, so no alcohol or added sugar desserts
The only difference to FDs is the higher calorie allowance
Alcohol stops the fast, because it stops the fat-burning and cell regeneration

OP posts:
Fillybuster · 12/12/2019 10:19

Well done Whattodo and Moonlight

Glad things are, ahem, moving again Aber Grin

Scales were steady at 9.10 after my FD (hurrumph!) and I had a bad ‘conference’ day yesterday (featuring 8 medjool dates, a mince pie, a small danish and a very small slice of Konditor and Cook chocolate cake alongside a fairly sensible lunch). I balanced things out a bit with a hardcore gym session and just some veg tagine for dinner but wasn’t feeling too pleased with myself.

That said a) there was no snacking b) I realised I had mentally kept a complete tally of everything I ate, and, for example, only had once mince pie even though they were yummy c) I didn’t eat any of the extra carbs etc available at lunchtime d) I skipped all the alcohol and snacks at the social part at the end and just had some water and e) I realised in time to counterbalance with a sensible supper. These are all big “wins” for me!

Scales this morning back to 9.8, weirdly, so apparently they agree Hmm Lots of NSV comments all of a sudden over the past few days, at work and socially - it’s like everyone has suddenly noticed I’ve lost nearly a stone all at once. DH also being v complimentary, although more about gym-related changes. Must admit I’m loving the muscle definition even more than the weight loss - I’ve even got a vague suspicion of abdominal muscles somewhere around the middle (only very vague!!).

Not sure I can fit a second FD this week as I’m meeting an old friend for drinks then have a swanky buffet dinner event tonight (BCF, lots of small plates, so I’ll be focussing on protein and veg!) and we are going to friends for dinner tomorrow and lunch on Saturday.

Will try to remain below TDEE today and tomorrow to try to balance that out, although alcohol might make that hard, and aim for a FD on Sunday I think, especially with my birthday looming next week! My target was to be 9.9 by my birthday, so really really keen not to gain anything over the weekend!! Obviously the dream would be to be below target....especially since I saw 9.7 last week....

Good luck to all the Thursday fasters!

aberjenagain · 12/12/2019 13:26

After the last few weeks' stagnation am pleased report a 1.4 lb SV, taking me to 136.6 lb overall, hurrah! Smile

Work do tomorrow, so sensible aiming for sub-TDEE NFDs today and over the weekend. And NO SNACKING! We are watching a film before lunch so need to resist the siren call of the popcorn stand...

Well done on some fab NSVs filly!

Congrats on your SV whattodo

The drop scones are very simple - just 125 g buckwheat flour, 1 tsp baking powder, 1 egg, 150 ml milk of your choice (plant milks can help keep the cals down and some add important nutrients). Whisk together. Can add a couple of tbsps seeds to the mix too. Then just cook 1-2 tbsp-sized dollops in a frying pan with a bit of oil. I find these drier than drop scones made with wheat flour, so always eat them with something a bit wet, such as baked apples (my current fave) or thawed frozen raspberries, plus some greek yoghurt. They are best served warm, so I cook a big batch and freeze them in pairs, thaw in the fridge overnight, then nuke them in the morning for 20-30 seconds before putting it all together. Feels like a real 'treat' breakfast, but is quick and nourishing.

aberjenagain · 12/12/2019 13:26

Good luck today mrd

moonlight1705 · 12/12/2019 13:30

Well done aber and filly on those lovely SV.

Bit depressed though as I need to lose an entire filly to be in the middle of healthy BMI Shock

BigChocFrenzy · 12/12/2019 15:23

Congratulations on your SV, filly, aber
and on all your NSVs, filly
Sounds like you are developing really good new longterm habits, which will help a lot in maintenance
Abs definition is always a major plus

That's a handy recipe, aber

Take it at your own pace, Moonlight
Several folk started 5:2 at well above 40+ and have had great success

The strategy when you've a fair bit to lose is to set up minigoals - e.g. every 5lb lost, every 5kg , every stone - and then major milestones like dropping into a lower BMI band or losing say 50 lb

MrD has this system sussed and gives herself nonfood rewards as she nails each one

With a high BMI, if you can focus on the WOE guidelines, then you can lose pretty quickly for the first several weeks, which is always encouraging

OP posts:
EssentialHummus · 12/12/2019 16:14

Well done filly, well done aber! Lovely reading your good news.

NFD for me today - though I am trying to be healthy during the day because it'll inevitably be carbs and booze with friends tonight as we stay up to the early hours to watch the election results. I'll be back tomorrow complaining about a sore head Grin.

OohMrDarcy · 12/12/2019 20:05

Well done filly and aber

Nsv from yesterday here -- everyone at head office noticed I've lost weight finally Grin

FD closed on around 450. Will have another cuppa shortly and then I'm done.

Will attempt to catch up properly tomorrow

BigChocFrenzy · 12/12/2019 20:10

Well done on your FD, MrD
and your compliments NSV - even the most unobservant people are noticing !

I hope tomorrow isn't an FD, hummus Grin
General elections don't come very often - well, at least I hope they don't now ! - but think of your head and try 2 glasses of sparkling water for each of wine.

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