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Fasting / 5:2 diet

Talk about intermittent fasting and 5:2, including what’s worked for others. Mumsnet hasn't checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. You may wish to speak to a medical professional before starting any diet.

5:2 Thread number 88: Anyone trying to pull you down is beneath you - come join our friendly & knowledgeable group to BOOST you up to goal

979 replies

BigChocFrenzy · 22/11/2019 00:06

Welcome to the continuing thread for those following 5:2 or other forms of IF (Intermittent Fasting) such as 4:3, ADF, or daily 16:8 Smile

The 5:2 diet was introduced by Michael Mosely on BBC Horizon on August 2012:

Basically it is 2 very low cal days ("fasts") per week - which need not be consecutive - and eat "normally" to maintain on the other 5 days.

For those who have dieted or maybe overeaten for years, eating "normally"
means roughly the number of calories your body needs to maintain - NOT reduce - its weight (see TDEE calculator below).

IMPORTANT
If you have had past diagnosed Eating Disorders or serious MH problems you should NOT do 5:2 or any other kind of fasting

ACRONYMS

16:8 is a different type of fasting, which can be combined with 5:2.
Daily zero-cal fast for 16 hours and eat within an 8 hour window. To lose weight, this needs a weekly calorie deficit as well

4:3 = fast on 3 non-consecutive days per week

ADF (Alternate-Day Fasting) = fast every other day

b2b (optional) back-to-back / consecutive fast days, each with an increased allowance of 650 calories instead of 500

BMI (Body Mass Index) healthy range is 18.5 - 24.9 for Caucasians. Upper limit may be 22 for some of Asian origin.

FD = single Fast Day: aim for 500 calories (600 for men or 25% TDEE whichever is higher) or 1000 cals for BF
No alcohol or junk on FDs
Even if you exercise strenuously, do NOT increase FD cals to allow for exercise

MFP = My Fitness Pal, a useful App or website to track food & drink calories

miniFD = MiniFD, 850- 1000 calories, no alcohol or junk

NFD = Non-Fast Day, averages around TDEE

NSV / LSV = Non Scale Victory / LifeStyle (change) Victory, e.g. compliment, smaller waist, clothes size

SV = Scale Victory

TDEE = Total Daily Energy Expenditure, the average number of calories you burn in a day, is calculated (see calculators below) from your current weight, height, age, activity level.
Aim to average about this for NFDs.

WOE / WOL = Way Of Eating / Way Of Life. We say this instead of "diet", to emphasise that we must make a permanent change in how we eat, to mainitain our new healthy weight longterm.

HOW TO START

. Take initial measurements: weight, waist, hips
. Use TDEE calculator below if you need a rough guide to how much to eat on NFDs
. Choose any 2 days for FDs, non-consecutive is easier.
. Before each FD: plan, shop & calorie count ALL food & drink for the day

Useful Resources & Calculators

Calorie Counter: mfp
Rough Calories for NFD: Mosely TDEE Calc (exercisers: set activity level to one below what you think)
BMI: Calc
Ideal Weight & Body Frame Size: Calc Wt Frame
Body Fat: BFat Calc
Choose / Visualise Goal Weight:
3D BMI body types ripped to normal
Bod Vis Measurements & 3D rotate]]

Safe Alcohol Calc: Calc Units Cals

FD Recipes:
Mosely LowCarb , low carb Diet Doc
BBC Good Food 52 , BBC Good Food 500 cal meals ,
Good2Know , Foodie Under 200 Cals
Vegetarian ,

FD Ready Meals, Fast Food

Any Day:
Meal Planner

FAQs / Tips

  • WATER: Start each day with a glass of water; and drink plenty during the day.
  • HOT DRINKS: No limits on tea or coffee, but on FDs count any milk / sugar calories.
  • SLEEP: Try to get enough sleep, or it may slow weight loss.
  • EXERCISE: is healthy & can help weight loss - BUT only if you do NOT eat back less than you burn. Fasted training can burn more fat.
HIIT and resistance training both work well with 5:2/IF.
  • FDs: If possible, choose days when you are busy, but not preparing meals for others.
Concentrate on protein & veg; avoid sugar or fruit juice. e.g. Stir-fries, soups & stews. Ready meals are OK.
  • BFers: start with 1000-cal FDs, optionally reduce to 700 cals gradually.
You can return to 1000 if growth spurts or sleep-deprivation require more fuel.
  • NFDs: No rules, but to improve health, try to cut down on added sugar & junk food, keep alcohol within safe limits. A few treats per week are fine.
  • Do NOT fast: if you've ever had EDs, or if pregnant, under 21, over-stressed, fever, stomach bug, even a bad cold.
  • CHECK with your Doctor: if you have diabetes, any other endocrine condition, any serious past or present medical condition, or if taking ANY prescribed medication (fasting may affect absorption rate)

Scientific Evidence for Fasting & Health

BBC article on the original Horizon program

Telegraph comments on 5:2 and gives a brief overview by Dr Mosley, useful for newbies.

This InterviewPart1 and InterviewPart2 with leading ADF researcher Dr Varady explains why fasting helps you to lose weight AND improves some health markers.

Fasting boosts "autophagy" = recycling of old cells
Yoshinori Ohsumi won the 2016 Nobel prize for Medicine for research into autophagy
NOBEL Lecture “Autophagy – An Intracellular Recycling System”

Prof. R Taylor (Newcastle Uni) won the 2013 Diabetes UK Banting Prize for his Twin Cycle Hypothesis re the cause of type 2 diabetes: Twin Cycle Hypothesis T2
and showed a fasting diet could reverse T2

Dr Michelle Harvie (funded by cancer charities) showed possible benefits of intermittent fasting compared to standard daily calorie reduction in her trials (consecutive FDs) with women at high risk of breast cancer: ComparingDiets , EarlierResearch52

Dr Johnson showed intermittent fasting helped Asthma

HORMESIS & Why Intermittent Fasting Works: Mattson , BlackSwan and Hormesis

Molecular Mechanisms and Clinical Applications: J CellMetabolism
Recent research into the health benefits of fasting: e.g. by world-respected neuroscientist Dr MarkMattson (Mosely referred to his research) showed:

. Improved glucose regulation
. Loss of abdominal fat with maintenance of muscle mass
. Reduced blood pressure and heart rate
. Improved learning and memory and motor function
. Protection of neurons in the brain against dysfunction and degeneration in animal models of Alzheimer’s disease, Parkinson’s disease, stroke and Huntington’s disease.

Brain metabolism in health, aging, andneurodegeneration :
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

He compared 5:2 to ordinary daily diets on overweight women with family history of breast cancer.
Fasting group lost more belly fat, retained more muscle & had slightly better blood sugar regulation.

More of his research is in HealthyAging , Health , AvoidParkinsonsDisease

His article in J Aging Mech Disease 2015 explains the health benefits of intermittent fasting in great scientific detail.

Why intermittent fasting and stopping snacking can lower your risk of serious diseases:
Meal frequency and timing in health and disease

Fasting can help maintain brain health during aging:
emboj.embopress.org/content/36/11/1474
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

This interview with leading researchers into fasting in combination with standard cancer treatment: ScientificDiscussion MoselyMattsonLongo and a LongoInterview

NY Times Fasting Overview

Research by other US and European scientists in this DailyTelegraph Article about the medicinal uses of fasting, for many serious conditions & diseases.

Recent trials with Type 2 diabetics and those at risk of having it used a form of daily fasting - skipping supper.
Their conclusions: eating 1-2 meals per day is better than several small meals for losing weight and controlling insulin levels, see Type2Paper

OP posts:
Thread gallery
5
Fillybuster · 06/12/2019 11:10

And a mini grumble from me: really good FD on Wednesday plus 1.5 hours of tough gym work....and blinking a lb up on the scales yesterday morning!!!! It’s still there today. Grrr....

aberjenagain · 06/12/2019 12:06

Well done on the fab svs what and mrd Smile

Eurgh, filly I feel your pain, but you know yourself it’s not ‘real’ iyswim, and just a fluctuation.

I have lost the grand total of 0.8 lb in 3 weeks (and according to the scales this morning have put on 1 lb), so am a tad miffed. Think it’s water retention and ahem ‘movement’ related, plus I had two weeks before that with biggish losses, so will just keep on keeping on, keep fingers crossed for tomorrow next week, and make sure not to get derailed by Xmas goodies in the meantime! I was hoping to be at first goal by Xmas, but that’s look less likely now (need to lose ~5 lb). Oh well. It’s a marathon, not a sprint etc etc.

BigChocFrenzy · 06/12/2019 12:48

Well done on your SVs, MrD, what

Sounds like a blip, filly maybe retained water during muscle repair
That was an excellent exercise session
Stay focused today & this WE, to zap the blip

Sounds like you may be a bit blocked up, aber ?
If so (unless your GP, who knows you, prescribes it) I advise against taking fibre tablets, as they expand with water and can sometimes block you up even more

For constipation
- 1 tbsp olive oil 
- 1 teasp lemon juice
Best to take on an empty tum, so early morning or a few hrs after eating.

I'm thinking of a WE b2b, Hummus What about you ?

  • Big Xmas do this week and also next - and I avoid fasting during the week, when my fav restaurants are available Wink
OP posts:
Calledyoulastnightfromglasgow · 06/12/2019 17:45

Well done you lot!

I am static this week too at 9 stone 8 but I have had social stuff I have saved for NFD. I had cake with lunch today and have my work night out tonight! But I haven’t snacked so this is a win!!

B2B? I’m impressed. I would join you but have two dinners this weekend (not normally so sociable - it’s the time of year).

I’m pretty much heading to alternate day fasts - 2 around 600/700 and one about 1000. This will hopefully fit on with my sports stuff. I want to lose body fat....

Really like the idea of the healthful meals without trimmings. Prolon seemed to rely on a lot of light soups which I liked. However last night I needed more protein so had a little tuna with cabbage mush....

OohMrDarcy · 06/12/2019 17:48

Filly
You know it's a blip, keep on keeping on and it will go away again.

Aber
How are you with eating fiber? When I was blocked up I remember being surprised at how much is recommended, especially compared with how much I wasnt eating!

Weekend b2b in order to enjoy christmas socialising sounds perfect to me bigchoc

Calledyoulastnightfromglasgow · 06/12/2019 18:07

Is psyllium husk a big no no for extra fibre?

BigChocFrenzy · 06/12/2019 21:49

glasgow It can block you up, as the water expands it
Much better to get your fibre naturally, from veg, beans, nuts, seeds

OP posts:
moonlight1705 · 07/12/2019 10:45

STS this week but my two FD were not wonderful. However, I don't have any Christmas meals out as at work we just go to the pub for a drink (non alcoholic for me) so no worries on that score.

How is everyone doing today? We're getting the Christmas decorations up today Xmas Grin

BigChocFrenzy · 07/12/2019 11:12

Don't worry, moonlight Noone loses every week
If you have time now to focus on planning FDs and sensible NFDs, then progress should resume
A few minutes prepping on the days before is an invaluable help to make life easier

Day 1 of WE b2b here; anyone else fasting ?

I'm off for a walk soon, out into the grey day
Pump class early afternoon

OP posts:
jcurve · 08/12/2019 07:33

I’m fasting also back to back this weekend, BigChoc. This is my day 2. We had houseguests for the last fortnight, making fasting a bit challenging, and next weekend we are off to Stuttgart, so trying to make up my FD! Just having my cup of tea now then off to my HIIT class.

For anyone struggling to get things “moving”, my nutritionist suggested soaking a teaspoon of flax seeds in a little hot water overnight and gulping the lot in the morning It’s gentle and certainly seems to work for me.

BigChocFrenzy · 08/12/2019 08:49

It's good to have company, Jcurve
FD1 completed, now starting FD2
How are you doing ?

A teasp soaked flaxseeds sounds gentle enough and it adds nourishment too

Are you fasting as well today, Hummus ?

Off shortly to do a few leg weight sets at the gym, then spin class
I usually have my morning black coffee there first, to help mobilise bodyfat for fuel

Another grey grey day, but if it stays dry, I'll have an afternoon Rhine walk

OP posts:
inthethickofit19 · 08/12/2019 10:54

Not caught up on the thread yet but not managed any FD this week. Life has got in the way.

I've been sensible though and yesterday I hit my lowest so far - 10 stone 1.3lbs

FD tomorrow and Thursday

inthethickofit19 · 08/12/2019 10:55

Oh should mention that it's probably loss following TOTM

EssentialHummus · 08/12/2019 11:43

I'm in too - good luck bigchoc and jcurve. Not much in the way of planning for today so I think it'll be a quick stir fry for lunch. I am off to test drive a car in a bit - makes a change from the usual toddler-wrangling!

EssentialHummus · 08/12/2019 11:43

Well done inthe, that's wonderful news!

BigChocFrenzy · 08/12/2019 12:35

Good luck, hummus
Enjoy your test drive in peace !

Congratulations on your lowest SV, inthethick
Sounds like your NFDs are sensible, which is important for maintenance later

Yep, totm can temporarily add a few lb water weight,
which is why I recommend not weighing during that time - it can be discouraging

OP posts:
jcurve · 08/12/2019 18:11

Kitchen closed! My other half spent yesterday at a meat cookery course & brought home a stuffed, deboned chicken that we roasted. I had a smallish slice with steamed broccoli & a conference pear for dessert - not sure on calories but can’t be too far off as it was my only meal today (plus four cups of tea).

Does anyone find day 2 of B2B relatively straight forward? When I first started I thought I’d be absolutely famished on Day 2 but it’s surprisingly not the case, if anything I’m less hungry.

Calledyoulastnightfromglasgow · 08/12/2019 20:50

It’s in the interesting you say that.. when I did Prolon which was 5 days, I found it increasingly easy. I am planning to do it again in a few months but prob on my own to save cash!

I am struggling a bit as so many meals out and events just now. Did low cal breakfast and lunch the last two days and huge dinners out!! My body is v confused and I’m not weighing myself. So it’s a FD tomorrow before the next lunch on Tuesday... just trying to mitigate damage...

EssentialHummus · 08/12/2019 20:55

That sounds lovely j. I have had some very easy FD2s, where I really don't seem to feel it. Lovely when it happens, but for me the winter weather usually makes it harder - my appetite seems to switch off a bit in summer as long as I can't hear the ice cream van.

Kitchen closed here - one giant stir fry, lots of coffee and, oh, I bought a car Grin. We were so busy dealing with it that there wasn't much time to think about food, so relatively easy FD here.

Good luck tomorrow glasgow. You're being vigilant and proactive during the busy party season, which is great.

Whattodowithaminute · 08/12/2019 21:30

Well done inthethick on SV, well done on b2b/FD BCF, jcurve and hummus
Exciting new car news hummus a SV treat?!! 😂

I’ve onky done b2b a couple of times jcurve from a hunger perspective I’m fine, but from a headache perspective I tend to feel crap-going to try and avoid them generally but will add a couple of cups of bovril into the regime to see if that helps.

I’m joining you tomorrow glasgow, inthethick good luck-soup for lunch salad for dinner for me-should be straightforward!

BigChocFrenzy · 08/12/2019 21:34

Well done on your FDs, Jcurve, Hummus
Sounds delic & healthy, JCurve

Enjoy your new car, Hummus
Now you have to plan some outings

I incautiously thawed out some cheese to have a little (!) with Marmite flatbread .... so FD2 turned into a miniFD ! Grin
I must remember that I cannot be trusted with melted cheese Blush

Glasgow With big dinners out, all you can do is have v small - or no - breakfast & lunch
It's a v difficult time of year
Never mind, come January there's usually a group of us zapping the vacation lb before they find more friends

OP posts:
moonlight1705 · 09/12/2019 08:44

I'm doing a FD today, have got loads of things to do to keep me occupied and away from food.

I completely understand about the melted cheese BigChoc it's such a wonderful thing to eat! I have my DD cheese on toast for tea yesterday and really had to refrain from snagging a piece or two. Happy to say I resisted that Smile

BigChocFrenzy · 09/12/2019 09:22

Good luck, Moonlight, what, glasgow, inthethick and any other Monday fasters

Moonlight you are a stronger woman than I when it comes to cheese
I also rarely dare buy a certain mixed nut butter, or when I raise my head out of the jar, it's empty !

I normally avoid danger foods on FDs, but as I have major renovations going on and my wordly goods are piled up in a different room every few days, I didn't have access to my normal FD menu.
Upheaval stage 1 should be finished on 23 Dec
Then comes upheaval stage 2 with a lot of new furniture to be delivered, probably Feb.
< wails >

OP posts:
SydneyCarton · 09/12/2019 11:07

Morning all and good luck for Monday fasters. Envious of the new car Hummus, I passed my test four years ago and haven't been behind the wheel since as we don't have a car and borrow my inlaws' one, which I'm not insured on. We live in London so public transport is pretty good, but the freedom of having a car is definitely something I need to work on, even if it's only an old banger.

My usual Monday FD may be slightly thrown off course as I'm working from home to look after DD1, who's off school with a dodgy tummy. I prefer to have my FDs when I'm at work as there's much less temptation around, but I'm next in the office on Wednesday and have a meal planned with my old team, so I don't know how well that's going to work either Confused. I may have to try 3 mini FDs this week and see how that goes - if this is a sickness bug that we're all going to go down with I want to be flexible with fasting as I will need all my strength!

BigChocFrenzy · 09/12/2019 12:54

Good luck today Sydney
and I hope MiniSydney is soon fit again

OP posts: