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Fasting / 5:2 diet

Talk about intermittent fasting and 5:2, including what’s worked for others. Mumsnet hasn't checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. You may wish to speak to a medical professional before starting any diet.

5:2 Thread number 87: It's my body and I can if I want to

981 replies

BigChocFrenzy · 14/09/2019 17:38

Welcome to the continuing thread for those following 5:2 or other forms of IF (Intermittent Fasting) such as 4:3, ADF, or daily 16:8 Smile

The 5:2 diet was introduced by Michael Mosely on BBC Horizon in August 2012:

Basically it is 2 very low cal days ("fasts") per week - which need not be consecutive - and eat "normally" to maintain on the other 5 days.

For those who have dieted or maybe overeaten for years, eating "normally"
means roughly the number of calories your body needs to maintain - NOT reduce - its weight (see TDEE calculator below).

IMPORTANT
If you have had past diagnosed Eating Disorders or serious MH problems you should NOT do 5:2 or any other kind of fasting

ACRONYMS

16:8 is a different type of fasting, which can be combined with 5:2.
Daily zero-cal fast for 16 hours and eat within an 8 hour window. To lose weight, this needs a weekly calorie deficit as well

4:3 = fast on 3 non-consecutive days per week

ADF (Alternate-Day Fasting) = fast every other day

b2b (optional) back-to-back / consecutive fast days, each with an increased allowance of 650 calories instead of 500

BMI (Body Mass Index) healthy range is 18.5 - 24.9 for Caucasians. Upper limit may be 22 for some of Asian origin.

FD = single Fast Day: aim for 500 calories (600 for men or 25% TDEE whichever is higher) or 1000 cals for BF
No alcohol or junk on FDs
Even if you exercise strenuously, do NOT increase FD cals to allow for exercise

MFP = My Fitness Pal, a useful App or website to track food & drink calories

miniFD = MiniFD, 850-1000 calories, no alcohol or junk

NFD = Non-Fast Day, averages around TDEE

NSV / LSV = Non Scale Victory / LifeStyle (change) Victory, e.g. compliment, smaller waist, clothes size

SV = Scale Victory

TDEE = Total Daily Energy Expenditure, the average number of calories you burn in a day, is calculated (see calculators below) from your current weight, height, age, activity level.
Aim to average about this for NFDs.

WOE / WOL = Way Of Eating / Way Of Life. We say this instead of "diet", to emphasise that we must make a permanent change in how we eat, to mainitain our new healthy weight longterm.

HOW TO START

. Take initial measurements: weight, waist, hips
. Use TDEE calculator below if you need a rough guide to how much to eat on NFDs
. Choose any 2 days for FDs, non-consecutive is easier.
. Before each FD: plan, shop & calorie count ALL food & drink for the day

Useful Resources & Calculators

Calorie Counter: mfp
Rough Calories for NFD: Mosely TDEE Calc (exercisers: set activity level to one below what you think)
BMI: Calc
Ideal Weight & Body Frame Size: Calc Wt Frame
Body Fat: BFat Calc
Choose / Visualise Goal Weight:
3D BMI body types ripped to normal
Bod Vis Measurements & 3D rotate]]

Safe Alcohol Calc: Calc Units Cals

FD Recipes:
Mosely LowCarb , low carb Diet Doc
BBC Good Food 52 , BBC Good Food 500 cal meals ,
Good2Know , Foodie Under 200 Cals
Vegetarian ,

FD Ready Meals, Fast Food

Any Day:
Meal Planner

FAQs / Tips

  • WATER: Start each day with a glass of water; and drink plenty during the day.
  • HOT DRINKS: No limits on tea or coffee, but on FDs count any milk / sugar calories.
  • SLEEP: Try to get enough sleep, or it may slow weight loss.
  • EXERCISE: is healthy & can help weight loss - BUT only if you do NOT eat back less than you burn. Fasted training can burn more fat.
HIIT and resistance training both work well with 5:2/IF.
  • FDs: If possible, choose days when you are busy, but not preparing meals for others.
Concentrate on protein & veg; avoid sugar or fruit juice. e.g. Stir-fries, soups & stews. Ready meals are OK.
  • BFers: start with 1000-cal FDs, optionally reduce to 700 cals gradually.
You can return to 1000 if growth spurts or sleep-deprivation require more fuel.
  • NFDs: No rules, but to improve health, try to cut down on added sugar & junk food, keep alcohol within safe limits. A few treats per week are fine.
  • Do NOT fast: if you've ever had EDs, or if pregnant, under 21, over-stressed, fever, stomach bug, even a bad cold.
  • CHECK with your Doctor: if you have diabetes, any other endocrine condition, any serious past or present medical condition, or if taking ANY prescribed medication (fasting may affect absorption rate)

Scientific Evidence for Fasting & Health

BBC article on the original Horizon program

Telegraph comments on 5:2 and gives a brief overview by Dr Mosley, useful for newbies.

This InterviewPart1 and InterviewPart2 with leading ADF researcher Dr Varady explains why fasting helps you to lose weight AND improves some health markers.

Fasting boosts "autophagy" = recycling of old cells
Yoshinori Ohsumi won the 2016 Nobel prize for Medicine for research into autophagy
NOBEL Lecture “Autophagy – An Intracellular Recycling System”

Prof. R Taylor (Newcastle Uni) won the 2013 Diabetes UK Banting Prize for his Twin Cycle Hypothesis re the cause of type 2 diabetes: Twin Cycle Hypothesis T2
and showed a fasting diet could reverse T2

Dr Michelle Harvie (funded by cancer charities) showed possible benefits of intermittent fasting compared to standard daily calorie reduction in her trials (consecutive FDs) with women at high risk of breast cancer: ComparingDiets , EarlierResearch52

Dr Johnson showed intermittent fasting helped Asthma

HORMESIS & Why Intermittent Fasting Works: Mattson , BlackSwan and Hormesis

Molecular Mechanisms and Clinical Applications: J CellMetabolism
Recent research into the health benefits of fasting: e.g. by world-respected neuroscientist Dr MarkMattson (Mosely referred to his research) showed:

. Improved glucose regulation
. Loss of abdominal fat with maintenance of muscle mass
. Reduced blood pressure and heart rate
. Improved learning and memory and motor function
. Protection of neurons in the brain against dysfunction and degeneration in animal models of Alzheimer’s disease, Parkinson’s disease, stroke and Huntington’s disease.

Brain metabolism in health, aging, andneurodegeneration :
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

He compared 5:2 to ordinary daily diets on overweight women with family history of breast cancer.
Fasting group lost more belly fat, retained more muscle & had slightly better blood sugar regulation.

More of his research is in HealthyAging , Health , AvoidParkinsonsDisease

His article in J Aging Mech Disease 2015 explains the health benefits of intermittent fasting in great scientific detail.

Why intermittent fasting and stopping snacking can lower your risk of serious diseases:
Meal frequency and timing in health and disease

Fasting can help maintain brain health during aging:
emboj.embopress.org/content/36/11/1474
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

This interview with leading researchers into fasting in combination with standard cancer treatment: ScientificDiscussion MoselyMattsonLongo and a LongoInterview

NY Times Fasting Overview

Research by other US and European scientists in this DailyTelegraph Article about the medicinal uses of fasting, for many serious conditions & diseases.

Recent trials with Type 2 diabetics and those at risk of having it used a form of daily fasting - skipping supper.
Their conclusions: eating 1-2 meals per day is better than several small meals for losing weight and controlling insulin levels, see Type2Paper

OP posts:
Thread gallery
8
OohMrDarcy · 13/11/2019 17:54

Kitchen closed bang on 500 here 🎉don't think I've ever managed that Grin

Whattodowithaminute · 13/11/2019 19:12

Well done mrD
I’m on FD tomorrow and with you emcla I’ve had a disaster day here too-blaming my premenstrual rage symptoms and general lack of tolerance for anything today...

aberjenagain · 13/11/2019 20:32

Well done mrd

Accidentally did a b2b after a very strange and busy day at work. Enjoyed my sausage bap, had a chocolate digestive for ‘lunch’ and then suddenly it’s 8.30 🤷🏻‍♀️ So figured I might as well quit while I’m ahead. Kitchen closed on 682.

OohMrDarcy · 13/11/2019 21:03

Well done aber

SydneyCarton · 13/11/2019 21:22

Nice one aberjen, I love it when things work out like that!

I agree about breakfast emcla, I find the earlier I eat on a FD the hungrier I am all day, whereas if I skip breakfast and lunch and save the calories for dinner it’s much easier.

Kitchen closed on 515 Smile

emcla · 13/11/2019 21:27

Well done fasters. Starting with a pint of water tomorrow whattodo. See you tomorrow. Bye from a bloated pig here.

emcla · 13/11/2019 21:32

Sydney I find it with breakfast everyday. Any day I have breakfast I am hungry all day. If I skip I can just have a lunch and dinner. I’d love to have another half stone off for Christmas.

BigChocFrenzy · 14/11/2019 00:55

Bang on the nose, MrD !

Well done, MrD, aber, Sydney

Always grab a serendipidous FD when you can, aber

Many people find that skipping breakfast (or supper) and having a shorter eating window helps control eating and form better habits

OP posts:
BigChocFrenzy · 14/11/2019 00:56

Others do better with breakfast
Whatever system works for your individual bod

OP posts:
OohMrDarcy · 14/11/2019 07:21

Morning all

After my sneaky post FD weigh in.... let's just say I'm allowed my cinema celebration at the weekend 🎉🎉🎉😇

Whattodowithaminute · 14/11/2019 07:37

Well done MrD fantastic achievement
Checking in for FD today

Fortythreeandfatasfuck · 14/11/2019 08:20

well done mrd enjoy your cinema celebration

emcla I am exactly the same, quite happy to get to 12 noon without food and don't feel hungry, but if I have breakfast, then it ignites my hunger and all I want to do is eat Smile

So reattempting my failed FD from yesterday - have soup and some turkey breast for lunch, then probably an omelette and some veg or salad for dinner, might throw a yogurt in there if I have the calories.... good luck thurs fasters

OohMrDarcy · 14/11/2019 09:17

No such thing as a failed FD 43 - you know better than that! No beating yourself up allowed Grin Your meal plan for today sounds good, enjoy!

emcla - I am exactly the same, that is why I feel 5:2 works so well for me, I've never been a 'breakfast' person anyway, so I find it pretty easy to fast.

good luck for your FD whattodo

aberjenagain · 14/11/2019 09:49

Yay, well done mrd!

Sv here too - down to 138.8 lb and, best of all, I am no longer ‘overweight’ - BMI is 24.6, hurrah!

BigChocFrenzy · 14/11/2019 09:59

Congratulations, MrD
4 stone milestone SV, wow !🏅
Enjoy your WE cinema celebration

For those who need to move to non-food rewards, MrD is the expert Smile

Move on, 43 and good luck today
On 5:2, you can't "fail" a particular FD, there is always another go

As MrD said, another useful 5:2 mantra:

"An FD is never failed, merely postponed"

Good luck too to What

A glorious sunny day, even if cold
So, I'll enjoy a lovely Rhine walk before lifting at the gym

OP posts:
BigChocFrenzy · 14/11/2019 10:03

Wow, today is milestone day on this thread ! 😂

Congratulations on your SV, aber
Nailing the recommended BMI range is another fab milestone !🏅

How about planning a non/food reward for yourself too ?

OP posts:
OohMrDarcy · 14/11/2019 10:30

MASSIVE Congrats Aber!!! That must feel amazing!!!

I have a secret hope of ending the year in the 'Overweight' category.... I'm thinking I will just be outside it as have 15lb to go and only about 6 weeks! But that isn't the end of the world at all... it would still mean I started age 38 morbidly obese, and 39 overweight (birthday in Feb) which would have me over the bloody moon tbh

moonlight1705 · 14/11/2019 10:40

So I have done two FD and found out the following:

  1. Breakfast is not needed, much easier to get through without it.
  2. I can only go down to 700 calories without wanting to eat my arm off at the moment.
  3. I cannot do b2b FD as the second day was very difficult and felt physically sick with hunger.

Let's see on Saturday if it has worked or not. I am doing well on the no snacking between meals though Smile

emcla · 14/11/2019 11:18

Very well done aber Grin and mrd Grin

BigChocFrenzy · 14/11/2019 13:19

Well done on a good start, moonlight Smile

700 FDs are fine when you are starting and your body is still adapting to fasting
Go at your own pace:

"It's a WOL, not a race" Smile

Most people cannot do b2bs - and hardly anyone can when starting

it's a very individual thing as to whether you prefer to put your FDs together or keep them separate
Choose whatever system you find sustainable

  • because sustainability over the weeks and months is the key to reaching goal

MrD By EOY is really tight if you want to enjoy the holiday
I suggest you just see how near you can get by say the 20th and then try not to gain more than a couple of lb before you resume in the NY

If you get down to overweight BMI for your 39th birthday next year that would be fantastic
and then you can focus on being within normal BMI by your 40th ! 🎺

emcla Another ½ stone by Christmas looks a very doable target, if you can stay focused until near the time, keeping feasting until the real holiday period.
As with MrD, then focus on minimising any regain before you resume fasting in the NY

OP posts:
emcla · 14/11/2019 14:09

Thanks bigchoc. Feeling very determined here Grin

Fillybuster · 14/11/2019 15:46

Late (but earlier than usual Grin) FD check in from me too!

Huge huge congrats MrD & Aber on your SVs!!!! Wow!! Properly brilliant - you are both doing so well!!

43, it wasn’t a failed fast, it was an NFD...hope today is going better for you?

Moonlight, i think you have to work within your limits. Pretty sure that if you can stick to all of the non-snacking, no/low alcohol etc rules for both FD and NFDs the additional 200 cals won’t be the end of the world. You may also find you can move towards 500 over time as your body adjusts - it does take a while to get used to fasting.

I’m struggling today but it’s entirely my own fault....had a very good NFD yesterday but had a black tie event last night and somehow drank about 5 glasses of champagne. Not my fault, honest...my plan was for one drink but our lovely host kept buying proper champagne for our table and my glass was being topped up by enthusiastic waiters whilst I wasn’t paying attention BlushConfused Not helped by less than 6 hours sleep...I feel pretty ropey Envy

Bcoffee, herbal tea and lots of water all helping but I’m absolutely dreading my Boxercise class this evening as I don’t eat until after....ShockSad

BigChocFrenzy · 14/11/2019 16:20

Good luck, filly
5 glasses of champagne before an FD would make it so much harder ! Grin

I give a polite "No thank you", then launch the Big Choc Glare if anyone still tries to top up my glass or plate without my prior approval - noone makes a further attempt ....

OP posts:
Whattodowithaminute · 14/11/2019 17:52

Ouch filly that sounds rough. Really have felt inspired all day by your achievements aber and MrD
Closing the kitchen on 440 tonight. DH is out going to battle the kids into bed then I’m heading for a bath and early night myself. Planning mini FD for tomorrow-aiming for 1000 in preparation for Saturday night over indulgence.

emcla · 14/11/2019 18:13

I’m finished too whattodo. Bath and early night in order here too. Drank loads of water also. Might have a cup of tea later with skimmed milk.

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