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Fasting / 5:2 diet

Talk about intermittent fasting and 5:2, including what’s worked for others. Mumsnet hasn't checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. You may wish to speak to a medical professional before starting any diet.

5:2 Thread number 87: It's my body and I can if I want to

981 replies

BigChocFrenzy · 14/09/2019 17:38

Welcome to the continuing thread for those following 5:2 or other forms of IF (Intermittent Fasting) such as 4:3, ADF, or daily 16:8 Smile

The 5:2 diet was introduced by Michael Mosely on BBC Horizon in August 2012:

Basically it is 2 very low cal days ("fasts") per week - which need not be consecutive - and eat "normally" to maintain on the other 5 days.

For those who have dieted or maybe overeaten for years, eating "normally"
means roughly the number of calories your body needs to maintain - NOT reduce - its weight (see TDEE calculator below).

IMPORTANT
If you have had past diagnosed Eating Disorders or serious MH problems you should NOT do 5:2 or any other kind of fasting

ACRONYMS

16:8 is a different type of fasting, which can be combined with 5:2.
Daily zero-cal fast for 16 hours and eat within an 8 hour window. To lose weight, this needs a weekly calorie deficit as well

4:3 = fast on 3 non-consecutive days per week

ADF (Alternate-Day Fasting) = fast every other day

b2b (optional) back-to-back / consecutive fast days, each with an increased allowance of 650 calories instead of 500

BMI (Body Mass Index) healthy range is 18.5 - 24.9 for Caucasians. Upper limit may be 22 for some of Asian origin.

FD = single Fast Day: aim for 500 calories (600 for men or 25% TDEE whichever is higher) or 1000 cals for BF
No alcohol or junk on FDs
Even if you exercise strenuously, do NOT increase FD cals to allow for exercise

MFP = My Fitness Pal, a useful App or website to track food & drink calories

miniFD = MiniFD, 850-1000 calories, no alcohol or junk

NFD = Non-Fast Day, averages around TDEE

NSV / LSV = Non Scale Victory / LifeStyle (change) Victory, e.g. compliment, smaller waist, clothes size

SV = Scale Victory

TDEE = Total Daily Energy Expenditure, the average number of calories you burn in a day, is calculated (see calculators below) from your current weight, height, age, activity level.
Aim to average about this for NFDs.

WOE / WOL = Way Of Eating / Way Of Life. We say this instead of "diet", to emphasise that we must make a permanent change in how we eat, to mainitain our new healthy weight longterm.

HOW TO START

. Take initial measurements: weight, waist, hips
. Use TDEE calculator below if you need a rough guide to how much to eat on NFDs
. Choose any 2 days for FDs, non-consecutive is easier.
. Before each FD: plan, shop & calorie count ALL food & drink for the day

Useful Resources & Calculators

Calorie Counter: mfp
Rough Calories for NFD: Mosely TDEE Calc (exercisers: set activity level to one below what you think)
BMI: Calc
Ideal Weight & Body Frame Size: Calc Wt Frame
Body Fat: BFat Calc
Choose / Visualise Goal Weight:
3D BMI body types ripped to normal
Bod Vis Measurements & 3D rotate]]

Safe Alcohol Calc: Calc Units Cals

FD Recipes:
Mosely LowCarb , low carb Diet Doc
BBC Good Food 52 , BBC Good Food 500 cal meals ,
Good2Know , Foodie Under 200 Cals
Vegetarian ,

FD Ready Meals, Fast Food

Any Day:
Meal Planner

FAQs / Tips

  • WATER: Start each day with a glass of water; and drink plenty during the day.
  • HOT DRINKS: No limits on tea or coffee, but on FDs count any milk / sugar calories.
  • SLEEP: Try to get enough sleep, or it may slow weight loss.
  • EXERCISE: is healthy & can help weight loss - BUT only if you do NOT eat back less than you burn. Fasted training can burn more fat.
HIIT and resistance training both work well with 5:2/IF.
  • FDs: If possible, choose days when you are busy, but not preparing meals for others.
Concentrate on protein & veg; avoid sugar or fruit juice. e.g. Stir-fries, soups & stews. Ready meals are OK.
  • BFers: start with 1000-cal FDs, optionally reduce to 700 cals gradually.
You can return to 1000 if growth spurts or sleep-deprivation require more fuel.
  • NFDs: No rules, but to improve health, try to cut down on added sugar & junk food, keep alcohol within safe limits. A few treats per week are fine.
  • Do NOT fast: if you've ever had EDs, or if pregnant, under 21, over-stressed, fever, stomach bug, even a bad cold.
  • CHECK with your Doctor: if you have diabetes, any other endocrine condition, any serious past or present medical condition, or if taking ANY prescribed medication (fasting may affect absorption rate)

Scientific Evidence for Fasting & Health

BBC article on the original Horizon program

Telegraph comments on 5:2 and gives a brief overview by Dr Mosley, useful for newbies.

This InterviewPart1 and InterviewPart2 with leading ADF researcher Dr Varady explains why fasting helps you to lose weight AND improves some health markers.

Fasting boosts "autophagy" = recycling of old cells
Yoshinori Ohsumi won the 2016 Nobel prize for Medicine for research into autophagy
NOBEL Lecture “Autophagy – An Intracellular Recycling System”

Prof. R Taylor (Newcastle Uni) won the 2013 Diabetes UK Banting Prize for his Twin Cycle Hypothesis re the cause of type 2 diabetes: Twin Cycle Hypothesis T2
and showed a fasting diet could reverse T2

Dr Michelle Harvie (funded by cancer charities) showed possible benefits of intermittent fasting compared to standard daily calorie reduction in her trials (consecutive FDs) with women at high risk of breast cancer: ComparingDiets , EarlierResearch52

Dr Johnson showed intermittent fasting helped Asthma

HORMESIS & Why Intermittent Fasting Works: Mattson , BlackSwan and Hormesis

Molecular Mechanisms and Clinical Applications: J CellMetabolism
Recent research into the health benefits of fasting: e.g. by world-respected neuroscientist Dr MarkMattson (Mosely referred to his research) showed:

. Improved glucose regulation
. Loss of abdominal fat with maintenance of muscle mass
. Reduced blood pressure and heart rate
. Improved learning and memory and motor function
. Protection of neurons in the brain against dysfunction and degeneration in animal models of Alzheimer’s disease, Parkinson’s disease, stroke and Huntington’s disease.

Brain metabolism in health, aging, andneurodegeneration :
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

He compared 5:2 to ordinary daily diets on overweight women with family history of breast cancer.
Fasting group lost more belly fat, retained more muscle & had slightly better blood sugar regulation.

More of his research is in HealthyAging , Health , AvoidParkinsonsDisease

His article in J Aging Mech Disease 2015 explains the health benefits of intermittent fasting in great scientific detail.

Why intermittent fasting and stopping snacking can lower your risk of serious diseases:
Meal frequency and timing in health and disease

Fasting can help maintain brain health during aging:
emboj.embopress.org/content/36/11/1474
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

This interview with leading researchers into fasting in combination with standard cancer treatment: ScientificDiscussion MoselyMattsonLongo and a LongoInterview

NY Times Fasting Overview

Research by other US and European scientists in this DailyTelegraph Article about the medicinal uses of fasting, for many serious conditions & diseases.

Recent trials with Type 2 diabetics and those at risk of having it used a form of daily fasting - skipping supper.
Their conclusions: eating 1-2 meals per day is better than several small meals for losing weight and controlling insulin levels, see Type2Paper

OP posts:
Thread gallery
8
emcla · 10/11/2019 19:49

Well done essential. I hope to join you tomorrow with a fd. Have eaten everything in sight today as I feel miserable. Have a slight cold but feel wrecked. Slept this afternoon and going to have a lemsip and an early night. I had toast for breakfast and 2 whole meal rolls with soup for lunch. I feel really bloated now. ugh. Hopefully I feel better tomorrow.

BigChocFrenzy · 10/11/2019 20:54

Well done on your FD, hummus
and good luck tomorrow
Cinammon is a great way to spice things up

I hope you feel better tomorrow, emcla 💐

If you still feel grotty, I recommend a healthy TLC NFD instead of fasting,
i.e.meals with plenty of veg, no junky treats, no alcohol
and drink lots of water

Fab range of veg with your roast, MrD
Looks like you are keeping good habits to smash that milestone next week.
Enjoy your movie night with your friends - a lovely non-food reward

OP posts:
MazDazzle · 10/11/2019 23:28

I really don’t know if I can face it tomorrow! Blush

At least by posting on here I’ve made myself accountable, no matter how it goes.

Tomorrow is a training day at work, so everyone will bring in treats and homebakes and we’re all expected to go out for lunch.

EssentialHummus · 11/11/2019 07:56

Checking in for b2b.

maz can you have a look at the lunch menu now, so you make healthy choices now (easier to stick to later)?

Hope you're feeling better em.

BigChocFrenzy · 11/11/2019 11:45

Good luck on your b2b, Hummus

Maz Sounds like tomorrow is better for an FD
It's very difficult when you are just starting out again to be around people eating a lot of nice food !

Today, keep the One Plate Rule:

  • 1 plate per course, no seconds except for veg
  • Maximum 1 glass wine - drink lots of water
OP posts:
EssentialHummus · 11/11/2019 14:09

Big lunch of soup and bread so I am done for today and my b2b, bar a few more coffees. I normally have a nice brunch in a cafe the day after my FDs, but this week a friend's husband who is a parliamentary reporter has offered me a tour of Westminster, so I am off to swot up Grin.

emcla · 11/11/2019 15:34

Afternoon all. Feeling much better. Think I was simply wrecked as it’s been a busy couple of weeks with lots of driving involved. I’m flying through my fast day Spag Bol tonight with whole meal spag. Small serving for me. I’m out later on so busy is good. Hope all other fasters doing well. Well done hummus.

SydneyCarton · 11/11/2019 16:12

FD going well here so far, chugging away at the black coffee - it's getting easier, but definitely best hot! I have a ready meal for later - cod with mash and peas. Might do some veg or salad to go with it but tomorrow is shopping delivery day and the cupboards are a bit bare - not even any frozen peas to bulk it out a bit.

I've been logging my food on MFP all this week and although I have gone over on some days - especially at the weekend, I am wiped out after two days with three small children and need emergency toast! - I am definitely consuming less calories than normal, if only through having no alcohol, crisps/nuts or biscuits.

MazDazzle · 11/11/2019 17:04

Well I managed to avoid lunch and all of the sweet treats on offer at work. I did however have a bread roll. All things considered, that’s not too bad at all.

Had an early dinner of Thai veg curry. Usually I try to eat as late in the day as possible on FD, but I was starving after work.

Bath and early night for me.

Whattodowithaminute · 11/11/2019 18:15

Well done sydney and maz great achievement to be avoiding all of that temptation-puts you in good stead going forwarding.
FD for me here-had soup for lunch at 3ish and dinner tonight will be ham and salad-have an exercise class to go to first though.
Had a chat with DH last night over the calorie bombs of the weekend-not in a confrontational manner just generally this is where we fall down kind of way (whilst having a glass of wine and pre-dinner very tasty cheesy snack!)

I will do Thursday as my 2nd FD this week as DH is out. Saturday night will be lots of calories as it’s my 40th birthday dinner with friends-mmmm yum. Might have to go for a calorie light day on Friday too....

BigChocFrenzy · 11/11/2019 18:33

Well done on your b2b, Hummus
You seem to rattle those off very easily now

That tour sounds an exciting opportunity; Lucky you.
Just a shame the MPs are all occupied elsewhere ! Grin

Good going so far, emcla, sydney, what

emcla I recommend you have an early night tonight and all this week if you can, to replenish your batteries
That makes FDs much easier and reduces the chance of headaches

Sydney That's a good habit NSV
which would help weight loss
Especially if you cut those out via No Snacking

You did brilliantly, Maz to resist all those work goodies
You're another needing an early night

what It'll make FDs much easier if your DH is on board

A miniFD on Friday would be a great idea just before your 40th bash
Best wishes in advance 💐

OP posts:
3kidsareenough · 11/11/2019 19:25

Hey 5:2ers checking in for my Monday fd it's been a busy one thankfully. Hope everyone else is finding it okay today. My only gripe is the cold (it's Baltic where I am 🥶) well done on all your svs & nsvs they are they things that are keeping me going. I know I don't comment much but I do love reading all your updates. Have closed the kitchen this evening on 503 ☺️ veggie cottage pie with lots more veggies on top tea & coffee seen me through the day. Bed early tonight again been on the go since 6 this morning, kicked off with a spin class. Thanks for that info Big Choc I didn't realize that my fds were actually leaving me tired (it's a good tired though) I haven't actually weighed myself yet but will do that on Friday morning- just wanted to ease myself back into the way of fasting again before I start number crunching (the scales can be my downfall too if it's not going down I get disheartened) but the work trousers are feeling a little bit looser today so I'll take that as a start Wink not long to go now Monday fasters - yeah for us

BigChocFrenzy · 11/11/2019 19:45

well done on your FD, 3kids
and on your trousers NSV

It briefly reached a high of 5C today, but no sign of the sun
I was well wrapped up and had a 2 hour brisk walk by the river, but it felt even colder on the way back
I've just dug out my winter furry "helmet" with the ear muffs for tomorrow I look a sight in it

OP posts:
emcla · 11/11/2019 21:38

Thanks bigchoc. You are like a personal doctor / medical adviser. A very wise one.

BigChocFrenzy · 11/11/2019 22:13

😂 👩🏻‍⚕️

OP posts:
SydneyCarton · 11/11/2019 22:17

Thanks BigChoc, kitchen closed here on 535; rather underwhelming ready meal but it did the job with a cup of tea and a biscuit for pudding. Found a nice looking quesadilla recipe on Instagram with spinach and black beans so have added a few bits to tomorrow’s Tesco order and will have that for lunch as I’m WFH.

Arifa97 · 11/11/2019 23:17

Hi all Smile

On [Thursday 21 Novemeber] I am participating *24 HR FAST CHALLENGE] with ConcernWorldWide UK. I am abstaining from food for 24 hrs to raise awareness about hunger and food poverty/insecurity.

A common misconception is hunger and food poverty only affect third world countries however millions of families are affected in the UK, despite having the worlds 5th largest economy. The reliance on food banks has increased and the amount of families struggling with food insecurity is shocking. It makes the "5th largest economy" sound redundant when you see the statistics.

A child in your son or daughter's class may have gone hungry during the half-term because their parents could not afford to buy food. Can you imagine having to choose between either putting a roof over your child's head or providing them with food? Can you imagine watching your child go hungry and feel so helpless?

I have the choice to abstain from food for 24 hours, however, others don't. Food is a basic human right, not a privalage!

I have a thankgiving page www.justgiving.com/fundraising/arifa-saima. I would really appreciate it if you could donate whatever you can toward the cause. Your donation will make a huge difference to somebody. Thank You!

Also, why not join the challenge, get your partners, friends and family involved - its only 24hrs of your life Smile!

On a side note...

Well done on you FDs sydney, 3kids, hummus, maz!

Whattodowithaminute · 12/11/2019 06:55

Sounds like a really positive commitment * I’m always staggered how food bank usage has increased.

SV here this morning-12st exactly keep hovering around 12st 1 but hopefully this one will be here to stay...! All set for Fd Thursday and bcf you’ve inspired me for a mini on Friday too!
Good luck Tuesday fasters...

Whattodowithaminute · 12/11/2019 07:16

Sorry my arifa went missing in my previous post!

aberjenagain · 12/11/2019 10:07

Checking in for a FD - no b2b as tomorrow is bap day at work and ain't no way I'm missing out on that Grin

Well done to all the Monday fasters.

Good luck for your fasting challenge arifa. As you say, it is shocking how many families in a 'developed' country are still battling with food poverty Sad

moonlight1705 · 12/11/2019 10:21

Hello, I would like to join in on this as I have decided that 5:2 may be the way to go.

I did the TDEE calculator and it comes out as 2663 calories - seems an awful lot. But I am starting today on my first FD with soup for lunch and turkey burger and salad for dinner.

emcla · 12/11/2019 11:12

What’s bap day aber ??

I’m doing a b2b.

aberjenagain · 12/11/2019 11:52

emcla once a month (ish) management spring for bacon/sausage/veggie breakfast baps from the local deli. They are LUSH.

BigChocFrenzy · 12/11/2019 11:58

Well done on your FD, Sydney

Good luck on your fast today, Arifa
A worthwhile cause and pause for thought

Well done on your SV, What
So near to breaking into the 11 stone somethings

Good luck on your FD, aber
Is tomorrow's "bap day" when work supply filled baps, or do you all bring your own ?

Good luck to you as well, emcla on your b2b

Welcome, moonlight 🙂
and good luck on your 1st FD

TDEE can be very high with any combination of very tall & young / quite a bit to lose / intense frequent exerciser, or of course if you are a chap.

You don't have to eat up to the full TDEE - when you are no longer hungry, stop eating
A high TDEE is a great advantage when trying to lose weight
btw, most people don't need to count on NFDs, but mfp is useful if you need the structure to change longterm habits

To check, did you use Mosely's TDEE Calc as this is very reliable ?
(not the TDEE calc in mfp or elsewhere)
He says that exercisers should calculate with one activity level lower than they think they do.

On FDs, there is no allowance for exercise, but if your TDEE really is that high, I suggest you use TDEE / 4, so about 650 cals.

OP posts:
moonlight1705 · 12/11/2019 12:23

BigChocFrenzy yes I used the Mosely TDEE Calculator and it came up with that number. I obviously have a lot to lose!
I put in light activity as I walk for 50 minutes every day and do a sport twice a week but can always go to sedentary to see the results.