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Fasting / 5:2 diet

Talk about intermittent fasting and 5:2, including what’s worked for others. Mumsnet hasn't checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. You may wish to speak to a medical professional before starting any diet.

5:2 Thread number 87: It's my body and I can if I want to

981 replies

BigChocFrenzy · 14/09/2019 17:38

Welcome to the continuing thread for those following 5:2 or other forms of IF (Intermittent Fasting) such as 4:3, ADF, or daily 16:8 Smile

The 5:2 diet was introduced by Michael Mosely on BBC Horizon in August 2012:

Basically it is 2 very low cal days ("fasts") per week - which need not be consecutive - and eat "normally" to maintain on the other 5 days.

For those who have dieted or maybe overeaten for years, eating "normally"
means roughly the number of calories your body needs to maintain - NOT reduce - its weight (see TDEE calculator below).

IMPORTANT
If you have had past diagnosed Eating Disorders or serious MH problems you should NOT do 5:2 or any other kind of fasting

ACRONYMS

16:8 is a different type of fasting, which can be combined with 5:2.
Daily zero-cal fast for 16 hours and eat within an 8 hour window. To lose weight, this needs a weekly calorie deficit as well

4:3 = fast on 3 non-consecutive days per week

ADF (Alternate-Day Fasting) = fast every other day

b2b (optional) back-to-back / consecutive fast days, each with an increased allowance of 650 calories instead of 500

BMI (Body Mass Index) healthy range is 18.5 - 24.9 for Caucasians. Upper limit may be 22 for some of Asian origin.

FD = single Fast Day: aim for 500 calories (600 for men or 25% TDEE whichever is higher) or 1000 cals for BF
No alcohol or junk on FDs
Even if you exercise strenuously, do NOT increase FD cals to allow for exercise

MFP = My Fitness Pal, a useful App or website to track food & drink calories

miniFD = MiniFD, 850-1000 calories, no alcohol or junk

NFD = Non-Fast Day, averages around TDEE

NSV / LSV = Non Scale Victory / LifeStyle (change) Victory, e.g. compliment, smaller waist, clothes size

SV = Scale Victory

TDEE = Total Daily Energy Expenditure, the average number of calories you burn in a day, is calculated (see calculators below) from your current weight, height, age, activity level.
Aim to average about this for NFDs.

WOE / WOL = Way Of Eating / Way Of Life. We say this instead of "diet", to emphasise that we must make a permanent change in how we eat, to mainitain our new healthy weight longterm.

HOW TO START

. Take initial measurements: weight, waist, hips
. Use TDEE calculator below if you need a rough guide to how much to eat on NFDs
. Choose any 2 days for FDs, non-consecutive is easier.
. Before each FD: plan, shop & calorie count ALL food & drink for the day

Useful Resources & Calculators

Calorie Counter: mfp
Rough Calories for NFD: Mosely TDEE Calc (exercisers: set activity level to one below what you think)
BMI: Calc
Ideal Weight & Body Frame Size: Calc Wt Frame
Body Fat: BFat Calc
Choose / Visualise Goal Weight:
3D BMI body types ripped to normal
Bod Vis Measurements & 3D rotate]]

Safe Alcohol Calc: Calc Units Cals

FD Recipes:
Mosely LowCarb , low carb Diet Doc
BBC Good Food 52 , BBC Good Food 500 cal meals ,
Good2Know , Foodie Under 200 Cals
Vegetarian ,

FD Ready Meals, Fast Food

Any Day:
Meal Planner

FAQs / Tips

  • WATER: Start each day with a glass of water; and drink plenty during the day.
  • HOT DRINKS: No limits on tea or coffee, but on FDs count any milk / sugar calories.
  • SLEEP: Try to get enough sleep, or it may slow weight loss.
  • EXERCISE: is healthy & can help weight loss - BUT only if you do NOT eat back less than you burn. Fasted training can burn more fat.
HIIT and resistance training both work well with 5:2/IF.
  • FDs: If possible, choose days when you are busy, but not preparing meals for others.
Concentrate on protein & veg; avoid sugar or fruit juice. e.g. Stir-fries, soups & stews. Ready meals are OK.
  • BFers: start with 1000-cal FDs, optionally reduce to 700 cals gradually.
You can return to 1000 if growth spurts or sleep-deprivation require more fuel.
  • NFDs: No rules, but to improve health, try to cut down on added sugar & junk food, keep alcohol within safe limits. A few treats per week are fine.
  • Do NOT fast: if you've ever had EDs, or if pregnant, under 21, over-stressed, fever, stomach bug, even a bad cold.
  • CHECK with your Doctor: if you have diabetes, any other endocrine condition, any serious past or present medical condition, or if taking ANY prescribed medication (fasting may affect absorption rate)

Scientific Evidence for Fasting & Health

BBC article on the original Horizon program

Telegraph comments on 5:2 and gives a brief overview by Dr Mosley, useful for newbies.

This InterviewPart1 and InterviewPart2 with leading ADF researcher Dr Varady explains why fasting helps you to lose weight AND improves some health markers.

Fasting boosts "autophagy" = recycling of old cells
Yoshinori Ohsumi won the 2016 Nobel prize for Medicine for research into autophagy
NOBEL Lecture “Autophagy – An Intracellular Recycling System”

Prof. R Taylor (Newcastle Uni) won the 2013 Diabetes UK Banting Prize for his Twin Cycle Hypothesis re the cause of type 2 diabetes: Twin Cycle Hypothesis T2
and showed a fasting diet could reverse T2

Dr Michelle Harvie (funded by cancer charities) showed possible benefits of intermittent fasting compared to standard daily calorie reduction in her trials (consecutive FDs) with women at high risk of breast cancer: ComparingDiets , EarlierResearch52

Dr Johnson showed intermittent fasting helped Asthma

HORMESIS & Why Intermittent Fasting Works: Mattson , BlackSwan and Hormesis

Molecular Mechanisms and Clinical Applications: J CellMetabolism
Recent research into the health benefits of fasting: e.g. by world-respected neuroscientist Dr MarkMattson (Mosely referred to his research) showed:

. Improved glucose regulation
. Loss of abdominal fat with maintenance of muscle mass
. Reduced blood pressure and heart rate
. Improved learning and memory and motor function
. Protection of neurons in the brain against dysfunction and degeneration in animal models of Alzheimer’s disease, Parkinson’s disease, stroke and Huntington’s disease.

Brain metabolism in health, aging, andneurodegeneration :
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

He compared 5:2 to ordinary daily diets on overweight women with family history of breast cancer.
Fasting group lost more belly fat, retained more muscle & had slightly better blood sugar regulation.

More of his research is in HealthyAging , Health , AvoidParkinsonsDisease

His article in J Aging Mech Disease 2015 explains the health benefits of intermittent fasting in great scientific detail.

Why intermittent fasting and stopping snacking can lower your risk of serious diseases:
Meal frequency and timing in health and disease

Fasting can help maintain brain health during aging:
emboj.embopress.org/content/36/11/1474
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

This interview with leading researchers into fasting in combination with standard cancer treatment: ScientificDiscussion MoselyMattsonLongo and a LongoInterview

NY Times Fasting Overview

Research by other US and European scientists in this DailyTelegraph Article about the medicinal uses of fasting, for many serious conditions & diseases.

Recent trials with Type 2 diabetics and those at risk of having it used a form of daily fasting - skipping supper.
Their conclusions: eating 1-2 meals per day is better than several small meals for losing weight and controlling insulin levels, see Type2Paper

OP posts:
Thread gallery
8
Arifa97 · 07/11/2019 19:00

Kitchen closed on 500

Lunch =332
1/2 grapefruit
1 slice of toast + 30g peanut butter

Dinner = 168
85g chicken breast
105g green beans
1 small apple

BigChocFrenzy · 07/11/2019 21:06

Well done on your FD, 3 kids
< big wave back >
FDs are usually much easier when you are too busy to think much about food

Yes, FDs can make you feel tired,
probably because IF works on the same principle as HIIT: hormesis (interval loading makes you sfronger)
so your body is working a bit harder.
I always recommend an early night if poss on FDs, to maximise fasting benefits.

Well done, arifa
That looks a satisfying menu

OP posts:
emcla · 07/11/2019 22:15

Well done 3kids. Being busy on Fds works well for me too.

emcla · 07/11/2019 22:16

I still have a headache despite taking marmite and glugging lots of water. So off to bed and taking two paracetamol. Night all

OohMrDarcy · 08/11/2019 07:19

Morning all

Checking in for Friday FD here, you in 43?

Fillybuster · 08/11/2019 07:49

Going away for a long weekend with dh and no dcs......properly excited! Proper SV: 9.8 this morning after a NFD! It’s at least 3 years since the scales last said that!

I know I’ll gain a couple of lbs whilst we are away but really really chuffed since I had only been hoping to get back to 9.10 before we left. Yay!

Good luck to all the Friday fasters and have lovely weekends everyone Smile

EssentialHummus · 08/11/2019 08:04

Well done filly! And enjoy your weekend away. Good luck mrd.

NFD here. Taking the toddler swimming with her mates. Can't wait. EnvyGrin.

Whattodowithaminute · 08/11/2019 08:06

Well done filly enjoy our lovely weekend away to celebrate!
Good luck Friday fasters....

emcla · 08/11/2019 08:15

Good luck with your fd mrd and any other fasters.

aberjenagain · 08/11/2019 09:37

Oooh filly, livin’ the dream! My colleague has just been for her first proper holiday without kids, to Mauritius Envy The kids are both adults now...just 12 years to go then!!

aberjenagain · 08/11/2019 09:37

Good luck for your fd mrd. You are doing amazingly, so inspiring Smile

OohMrDarcy · 08/11/2019 13:18

ooh filly congrats - and enjoy your weekend away!

Whattodowithaminute · 08/11/2019 17:49

I feel pleased with myself today-I went out without breakfast and instead of thinking I’m starving feed me and grabbing a lovely sausage roll followed by a slice of cake and massive latte, I came home and had lunch.

I’ve started reverse planning on MFP-so I submit what I will eat for dinner which is always my main meal and I eat with DH and then I’ve started looking at what calories I have left and eating more sensibly at lunch. I know this isn’t 100% ideal but I think might be a better solution for me for a while.
Hope all Friday fasters are ok. Good luck for weekend fasters!

OohMrDarcy · 08/11/2019 18:22

Kitchen closed on around 600 here today, I'll take it.

How did everyone else do?

BigChocFrenzy · 08/11/2019 18:46

Congratulations on your SV, filly and enjoy your WE

I hope you enjoyed your NFD, emcla
after the tough FD

That's fine, What
Sounds like you have developed a system that works for you

Well done on your FD, MrD

FD here too
Work was so interesting that I did 6 hours straight (I'm pt & v flexi) no hunger, with just a mid-morning black coffee

Now sitting in my fav Rhine bistro - in the pouring rain ! -
waiting for pumpkin & carrot soup with pumpkin seeds & il, followed by egg, tuna & feta salad

Hummus I hope you survived toddler swimming with nerves & ears intact

aber Start your 12 year countdown Grin

OP posts:
OohMrDarcy · 09/11/2019 07:13

Morning all

Weighed in this morning at 13st 12.6lb - which gives me a 2lb loss for the week, and brings be back under pre half term break weight. Also makes me 2oz off my 4st mark!

Bigchoc the pumpkin and carrot soup sounds lovely - hope you enjoyed!

Whattodowithaminute · 09/11/2019 07:23

Great start to the weekend MrD well done you

aberjenagain · 09/11/2019 07:51

Well done mrd!

BigChocFrenzy · 09/11/2019 12:09

Congratulations on your SV, MrD
Wow, just a wee away from 4 stone Grin
Stay focused and you'll notch up the milestone next week
Have you decided on the non-food reward yet ? It definitely deserves one

OP posts:
OohMrDarcy · 09/11/2019 14:33

I haven't yet bigchoc! Best get my thinking head on!

EssentialHummus · 10/11/2019 10:21

Sunday FD, anyone else? Lovely bright sunshine here - I will do 20 minutes of Jillian Michaels and then hopefully rake the lawn a bit with some music on.

MazDazzle · 10/11/2019 11:07

I have fallen off the wagon spectacularly. Have had a fairly stressful year and had to take on a second job. Basically I’ve been eating everything in sight and the weight has piled on. Thankfully, things have started to turn around now and I’ve been able to give up the second job, which will hopefully mean more time for me.

It’s time to turn things around. Food shopping and meal planning today for the week ahead. Tomorrow is the day I take control! It’ll be the first fast day in goodness knows how long. Looking forward to reading all about everyone else’s success to spur me on!

BigChocFrenzy · 10/11/2019 14:30

Good luck, Hummus
Excellent that you are now a Shredder: HIIT to boost fitness and reshaping
The muscles should soon adapt and stop whingeing to you Grin

Welcome back, Maz
You'll soon be back in your fasting swing

Try to develop the habit of non-food rewards - MrD is brilliant at that for her SV milestones -
and also non-food ways to handle stress or boredom

OP posts:
OohMrDarcy · 10/11/2019 14:43

Plan made! Going out with my lady friends to watch a christmas movie next weekend, perfect way to celebrate hitting 4 st lost for me Grin

Welcome back maz, you'll be back to it in no time. The key for me has been learning from even the tiniest blips and coming up with a plan then for what I could do if it happens again, which helps me keep moving forward.

Get you fasting on a sunday and battling with Jillian too - go you! I would miss my roast too much for that on a Sunday. Pork for us today- with 6 different veggies as well as our roast potatoes and gravy, yum.

EssentialHummus · 10/11/2019 19:38

That sounds lovely mrD! And the roast sounds yummy.

maz welcome back* - it sounds like leaving the second job will open up a bit of headspace for good habits.

Kitchen closed with a soup, a giant veggie stir fry with soy sauce and a small portion of noodles, and quite a lot of coffee. I've started putting cinnamon in it for a bit of sweetness / to stop me going to Starbucks for something with 1,000 calories. Strange but very tasty!

B2b tomorrow and more sodding Jillian. I can feel it working, which is good motivation at least. Good luck to any other Monday fasters.