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Fasting / 5:2 diet

Talk about intermittent fasting and 5:2, including what’s worked for others. Mumsnet hasn't checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. You may wish to speak to a medical professional before starting any diet.

5:2 Thread number 87: It's my body and I can if I want to

981 replies

BigChocFrenzy · 14/09/2019 17:38

Welcome to the continuing thread for those following 5:2 or other forms of IF (Intermittent Fasting) such as 4:3, ADF, or daily 16:8 Smile

The 5:2 diet was introduced by Michael Mosely on BBC Horizon in August 2012:

Basically it is 2 very low cal days ("fasts") per week - which need not be consecutive - and eat "normally" to maintain on the other 5 days.

For those who have dieted or maybe overeaten for years, eating "normally"
means roughly the number of calories your body needs to maintain - NOT reduce - its weight (see TDEE calculator below).

IMPORTANT
If you have had past diagnosed Eating Disorders or serious MH problems you should NOT do 5:2 or any other kind of fasting

ACRONYMS

16:8 is a different type of fasting, which can be combined with 5:2.
Daily zero-cal fast for 16 hours and eat within an 8 hour window. To lose weight, this needs a weekly calorie deficit as well

4:3 = fast on 3 non-consecutive days per week

ADF (Alternate-Day Fasting) = fast every other day

b2b (optional) back-to-back / consecutive fast days, each with an increased allowance of 650 calories instead of 500

BMI (Body Mass Index) healthy range is 18.5 - 24.9 for Caucasians. Upper limit may be 22 for some of Asian origin.

FD = single Fast Day: aim for 500 calories (600 for men or 25% TDEE whichever is higher) or 1000 cals for BF
No alcohol or junk on FDs
Even if you exercise strenuously, do NOT increase FD cals to allow for exercise

MFP = My Fitness Pal, a useful App or website to track food & drink calories

miniFD = MiniFD, 850-1000 calories, no alcohol or junk

NFD = Non-Fast Day, averages around TDEE

NSV / LSV = Non Scale Victory / LifeStyle (change) Victory, e.g. compliment, smaller waist, clothes size

SV = Scale Victory

TDEE = Total Daily Energy Expenditure, the average number of calories you burn in a day, is calculated (see calculators below) from your current weight, height, age, activity level.
Aim to average about this for NFDs.

WOE / WOL = Way Of Eating / Way Of Life. We say this instead of "diet", to emphasise that we must make a permanent change in how we eat, to mainitain our new healthy weight longterm.

HOW TO START

. Take initial measurements: weight, waist, hips
. Use TDEE calculator below if you need a rough guide to how much to eat on NFDs
. Choose any 2 days for FDs, non-consecutive is easier.
. Before each FD: plan, shop & calorie count ALL food & drink for the day

Useful Resources & Calculators

Calorie Counter: mfp
Rough Calories for NFD: Mosely TDEE Calc (exercisers: set activity level to one below what you think)
BMI: Calc
Ideal Weight & Body Frame Size: Calc Wt Frame
Body Fat: BFat Calc
Choose / Visualise Goal Weight:
3D BMI body types ripped to normal
Bod Vis Measurements & 3D rotate]]

Safe Alcohol Calc: Calc Units Cals

FD Recipes:
Mosely LowCarb , low carb Diet Doc
BBC Good Food 52 , BBC Good Food 500 cal meals ,
Good2Know , Foodie Under 200 Cals
Vegetarian ,

FD Ready Meals, Fast Food

Any Day:
Meal Planner

FAQs / Tips

  • WATER: Start each day with a glass of water; and drink plenty during the day.
  • HOT DRINKS: No limits on tea or coffee, but on FDs count any milk / sugar calories.
  • SLEEP: Try to get enough sleep, or it may slow weight loss.
  • EXERCISE: is healthy & can help weight loss - BUT only if you do NOT eat back less than you burn. Fasted training can burn more fat.
HIIT and resistance training both work well with 5:2/IF.
  • FDs: If possible, choose days when you are busy, but not preparing meals for others.
Concentrate on protein & veg; avoid sugar or fruit juice. e.g. Stir-fries, soups & stews. Ready meals are OK.
  • BFers: start with 1000-cal FDs, optionally reduce to 700 cals gradually.
You can return to 1000 if growth spurts or sleep-deprivation require more fuel.
  • NFDs: No rules, but to improve health, try to cut down on added sugar & junk food, keep alcohol within safe limits. A few treats per week are fine.
  • Do NOT fast: if you've ever had EDs, or if pregnant, under 21, over-stressed, fever, stomach bug, even a bad cold.
  • CHECK with your Doctor: if you have diabetes, any other endocrine condition, any serious past or present medical condition, or if taking ANY prescribed medication (fasting may affect absorption rate)

Scientific Evidence for Fasting & Health

BBC article on the original Horizon program

Telegraph comments on 5:2 and gives a brief overview by Dr Mosley, useful for newbies.

This InterviewPart1 and InterviewPart2 with leading ADF researcher Dr Varady explains why fasting helps you to lose weight AND improves some health markers.

Fasting boosts "autophagy" = recycling of old cells
Yoshinori Ohsumi won the 2016 Nobel prize for Medicine for research into autophagy
NOBEL Lecture “Autophagy – An Intracellular Recycling System”

Prof. R Taylor (Newcastle Uni) won the 2013 Diabetes UK Banting Prize for his Twin Cycle Hypothesis re the cause of type 2 diabetes: Twin Cycle Hypothesis T2
and showed a fasting diet could reverse T2

Dr Michelle Harvie (funded by cancer charities) showed possible benefits of intermittent fasting compared to standard daily calorie reduction in her trials (consecutive FDs) with women at high risk of breast cancer: ComparingDiets , EarlierResearch52

Dr Johnson showed intermittent fasting helped Asthma

HORMESIS & Why Intermittent Fasting Works: Mattson , BlackSwan and Hormesis

Molecular Mechanisms and Clinical Applications: J CellMetabolism
Recent research into the health benefits of fasting: e.g. by world-respected neuroscientist Dr MarkMattson (Mosely referred to his research) showed:

. Improved glucose regulation
. Loss of abdominal fat with maintenance of muscle mass
. Reduced blood pressure and heart rate
. Improved learning and memory and motor function
. Protection of neurons in the brain against dysfunction and degeneration in animal models of Alzheimer’s disease, Parkinson’s disease, stroke and Huntington’s disease.

Brain metabolism in health, aging, andneurodegeneration :
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

He compared 5:2 to ordinary daily diets on overweight women with family history of breast cancer.
Fasting group lost more belly fat, retained more muscle & had slightly better blood sugar regulation.

More of his research is in HealthyAging , Health , AvoidParkinsonsDisease

His article in J Aging Mech Disease 2015 explains the health benefits of intermittent fasting in great scientific detail.

Why intermittent fasting and stopping snacking can lower your risk of serious diseases:
Meal frequency and timing in health and disease

Fasting can help maintain brain health during aging:
emboj.embopress.org/content/36/11/1474
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

This interview with leading researchers into fasting in combination with standard cancer treatment: ScientificDiscussion MoselyMattsonLongo and a LongoInterview

NY Times Fasting Overview

Research by other US and European scientists in this DailyTelegraph Article about the medicinal uses of fasting, for many serious conditions & diseases.

Recent trials with Type 2 diabetics and those at risk of having it used a form of daily fasting - skipping supper.
Their conclusions: eating 1-2 meals per day is better than several small meals for losing weight and controlling insulin levels, see Type2Paper

OP posts:
Thread gallery
8
Waterandlemonjuice · 04/11/2019 04:09

Hello, please can I join you? I’ve done the 8 week BSD before with good results but need to get back on this WOE. My downfall is bread and wine so I’m going to do a month of no alcohol and back to low carbs, I may do 800 cals a day for a while to start with.

Fortythreeandfatasfuck · 04/11/2019 07:16

Love that poster pineapple and the post it notes aber

Well done to the weekend fasters 🙂
Fd today and I'm so ready to get back to this WOE as I know it really works for me. pineapple the no snacking rule really was a revelation for me although I've not stuck to it lately (ahem!)
Yes hummus a prominent in your face countdown calendar might be the ticket Grin

Welcome water and good luck. 800 fds for a couple of weeks to get you into this sounds like a good plan.

Who else is fasting today?

Whattodowithaminute · 04/11/2019 07:34

Welcome back 43 congratulations on the new job.

The poster and post it notes are great ideas pineapple and aber and anything that helps to support establishing this WOL are worth trying.

Scales have gone up by 1.5lb this morning-less than ideal but unsurprising after a birthday weekend of cake, wine, eating out and eating the children’s Halloween sweets-have put away the sweets now out of sight and ready for a FD today. Good luck to all the other Monday fasters

Laniakea · 04/11/2019 07:36

Hello (popping back in again!) - I negotiated my really hard/foodie October with a 3.4lb loss ... 145.4lbs now, BMI is 26.5 & 10lbs to get below 25!

I’m actually really pleased with myself ... I was aiming to maintain as I’ve (finally doh) noticed that as soon as I start making targets I sabotage & it all falls apart.

Best yet is that after 3 months of rest my hips are starting to improve - most days I’m managing 5k steps & I’m reintroducing some strength work. That’s probably the source of my good mood!

One week until holiday - I’m going to fast MWF this week, Saturday is my 19yo’s birthday ... I expect I’ll be too busy to eat loads. I’m planning to weigh again in two weeks.

(I was over 16 stone this time last year, I’m heading towards 10 now - it’s quite a lot to get my head around)

EssentialHummus · 04/11/2019 08:03

Well done lania!

Welcome water - your plan sounds good.

Day 2 of b2b here with you what and 43. I have some sort of stomach issue - loose bowels then constipation then bloating over the last few weeks - so lord knows what the scales will show, but broadly feeling good so hopefully it will be an easy b2b.

emcla · 04/11/2019 08:24

I’m fasting today. Good luck to essential on your b2b and any other Monday fasters.

BigChocFrenzy · 04/11/2019 09:10

Welcome, water 🙂
and good luck

Congratulations on your SV, lania

Good luck, hummus, emcla, what and any other Monday fasters

OP posts:
OohMrDarcy · 04/11/2019 09:38

Morning all

NFD here and will include a costa christmassy gingerbread latte at lunchtime (skinny / decaf so not TOO bad) with my boy as he has an inset day. Just doing my meal plans and food shopping order for the week - feels good to be getting organised again after half term!

Fasting tomorrow here. Good luck to everyone fasting today - am sure you will rock it

Welcome water

EssentialHummus · 04/11/2019 09:43

mrd inspired by you I have just done Day 1 of Jillian Michaels and I can no longer feel my legs. Or arms. Grin

OohMrDarcy · 04/11/2019 11:33

you're welcome Hummus Grin

aberjenagain · 04/11/2019 11:38

Inset day here too, so the girls and I are at soft play this morning. It’s a really nice one Shock with an excellent cafe ShockShock, so I’ve enjoyed my latte, shared a slice of a divine caramel cake with the eldest, and had an amazing sausage roll for a very early lunch. Aiming for b2b tues/weds this week.

Good luck to the Monday fasters!

BigChocFrenzy · 04/11/2019 12:45

That Christmas latte sounds yum, MrD

  • maybe it's a Thanksgiving latte (I'm just now thinking about getting a card for my US cousin)

Your softplay sounds brilliant, aber
I'd gathered from MN that they are culinary deserts. Obviously not all !

I hope you find your shattered limbs again soon, hummus
Only 29 more days of it to do ! 🏋🏼‍♀️ 😂

OP posts:
3kidsareenough · 04/11/2019 12:45

Hello all 5:2ers Smile wanted to check in for my first Monday fast in a veeeery long time. I spent the summer sorting out my exercise regimen and thought ( naively😔) that was all i needed really and my weight would magically disappear ( while I ate like Henry the 8th!) Last week I made the conscious decision that I had to do something about the eating habits and to do two fds this week. I have my meals all planned for the week. I know this wol works so well. I've had brilliant results before and want to get back to that place again. I've done my spin class this morning and have a hill running sess this evening. Then bed ☺️ Good luck all other Monday fasters. Off now to read the whole thread and get some inspiration from you all SmileSmile

SydneyCarton · 04/11/2019 16:46

I’ve been lurking on these threads for ages, but am now jumping in as I need some accountability/kick up the bum to keep going! I weighed in at 10 st 7 lb in March at my NHS health check, and started 5:2 at the beginning of June when I went back to work after maternity leave. Just weighed in at the weekend (no scales at home so checked when we visited my parents) and am now 10 st 12 lb!!! I am gutted, it feels like the last 5 months have been a complete waste of time.

I know that the simple answer is that I have been overeating on NFDs and taking in more calories that I am burning off, but it doesn’t feel like I am doing anything differently from the last time I did 5:2 (started in January 2017, went from 11 st to 10 st over the course of the year but had to stop when I found out I was pregnant in December 2017). I am two years older of course Grin but I did not think the difference between 39 and 41 would be so drastic.

Ugh. Still, back on it today – Monday and Wednesday are my FDs as I am in the office and it’s easier to avoid temptation than when I work from home and the biscuit tin is staring me in the face. I find it easier to save all my calories for a sensible low-carb high-protein evening meal as I find I’m hungrier if I eat 3 tiny meals. So far, I have had four cups of tea at around 15-20 cals per cup for the milk. There is scampi in the fridge for dinner, with chips and salad for DP, and just salad for me. Nutritional info says 176 cals for half the pack, so that leaves me around 250 cals for a big salad and maybe another cup of tea

Fortythreeandfatasfuck · 04/11/2019 16:49

Thanks what and happy birthday Smile that small gain will soon be off...

Wow lanieka your weight loss is amazing!
Hope your stomach feels better soon essential
Mmmm mrd that sounds delicious, I always stick to vanilla but I might give that a try. Ooh aber that cake sounds good too 《drools》
Good luck 3kids keep us posted how you get on.

Fd going okay here, had salad and some yogurt for lunch but not a clue yet re: dinner...

Fortythreeandfatasfuck · 04/11/2019 16:51

Welcome back sydney maybe you just need to log your nfds for a week or so to check for any hidden calorie bombs? Good luck

Waterandlemonjuice · 04/11/2019 17:02

Hello everyone and thanks for the welcomes. So far

B: apple, Marmite cheese, 160
L: mini chicken satay: 180 cal but I reckon it’s less as I didn't eat all the satay sauce, plus few slices of chorizo, 100 cals
D will be a 257 calorie ham hock and piccalilli salad and some raspberries

So I think I’ll close the kitchen on 800.

Whattodowithaminute · 04/11/2019 18:34

Welcome sydney lankia 3kids water great to see some extra people coming along for the ride/new WOL.

Drooling too on cake and tasty latte-tomorrow I will probably start the day with a small latte!

Kitchen closing after a smaller than normal pasta bolognese, homemade can’t work out the calories on MFP...

FD will be Wednesday this week as DH comes home on Thursday and I think he’s my calorie bomb-‘here darling have a glass of wine and a snack, followed by some more wine and post dinner chocolate...’ willpower nowhere in sight!!!

EssentialHummus · 04/11/2019 18:47

Kitchen closed here - no idea of calories, but one low-cal ready meal at lunchtime with added veg, then nothing but coffees and Berocca.

Well done water. How did others get on today?

what DH got bollocked repeatedly for turning up triumphantly brandishing Krispy Kreme doughnuts at 7pm on day 2 of a b2b Angry.

Fortythreeandfatasfuck · 04/11/2019 19:11

Oh hummus surely that's a LTB offence GrinWink

Fd finished slightly over on 600cal but I'm happy with that. Well done fellow fasters...

BigChocFrenzy · 04/11/2019 20:40

Happy birthday for last WE, what 💐

Well done on your FDs, water, 43

Hummus, what I trust your OH's were suitably chastened and now know not to waft calorie bombs around on FDs

Welcome back, 3kids
Yep, for almost everyone except very intense exercisers, weight management is 90% diet and only 10% exercise
Good luck on your 1st FD back

Welcome back, Sydney
and good luck on your FD

Many people find losing weight on any WOE is harder the 2nd time and it is nearly always that they have got used to eating / drinking a bit more - without realising this.

I recommend you mfp for a full week, as a reality check on NFDs and to find any hidden calorie bombs
Check any packet you use, as they can contain daft amounts like 2.5 portions, when anyone would assume it's just one

Mosely's calculator is more reliable than some others :**
Calc TDEE

If you are a regular exerciser, then Mosely recommends using one activity level lower than you think
because most people & gadgets significantly OVER-estimate exercise calories.

OP posts:
Fillybuster · 04/11/2019 21:39

Back on the thread (but not the wagon....epic fail today) after a hellish week.

It all started well: a back to back fast on Sunday and Monday that took me to 9.9 on Monday and Tuesday. Yes....I finally saw those 9.9 numbers that I’ve been working towards for months. But before anyone congratulates me on a SV.....DON’T!!!
A whole bunch of personal stuff came along and absolutely knocked me sideways. And then I think the same thing happened that is the reason I originally fell off 5:2 (only now I’ve spotted it): I was so stressed and busy that I completely lost track of when I ate. Because I basically wasn’t eating at all, even on NFDs, I had no plan, but equally no willpower. So the moment I was faced with a big pile of pastries, in a meeting, or pizza, I just piled in, because I was so hungry and had no plan around my next meal, or anything.
The whole week was one personal & work drama after another....lots of sugar, carbs, and, by the end of the week, after a minor medical procedure and a fair amount of discomfort, a few drinks too (much needed to be honest!).

Oh, and absolutely no time to go to the gym (too busy dealing with emergencies) which was a bit heartbreaking after going nearly every day for the past few months.
And dh was away all week (it wouldn’t have been so bad if there’d been 2 of us to deal with stuff). And I got my period. Because I needed more to deal with!
Perhaps unsurprisingly, I weighed in at 10 stone yesterday. Didn’t manage a proper FD, as we had family over for hot dogs and fireworks, but I did fast until dinner. I was planning a proper “get back on track” FD today, but got completely derailed by a Dominos pizza lunch delivery for our team at work (3 small slices) and another team member bringing in donuts (at least I went for a plain glazed one....200 Kcals according to the website!) mid afternoon.
So, salad and runner bean stew for dinner (total 150), and try again tomorrow.
I would be cross with myself, but it’s not worth it, and actually, it’s been quite instructive to see what happens when I get completely wiped out by stuff, and I can see that I need to carve out a few minutes every day, especially when it all gets crazy, to work out my meal plan, if it’s a FD or NFD, and how I’m going to manage the day. Hopefully I can get back to 9.9 over the next couple of weeks but it may take a little while as we’ve got a special weekend away sans dcs next weekend, and there’s a few big social events coming up. If I can hold steady at 9.10/9.11 and then get back on track properly after the next 2 weeks, I’ll be winning.
Right, apologies for an entirely selfish post...off to catch up.
Definitely fasting tomorrow

emcla · 04/11/2019 21:54

Busy day and fd completed. Brisk one hour walk too.

BigChocFrenzy · 04/11/2019 23:39

Well done on your FD, emcla

Welcome back, filly and good luck tomorrow

Exercise
Don't worry about missing exercise during a hectic week.
As posted above, weight loss is 90% diet for nearly everyone
Exercise is important for health, but if you can fit in 20 minutes shred most weeks and a brisk walk, that's fine.

If really pushed for time, just do Mosely's HIIT Fat Blasts:
2-5 mins on 3-5 days per week, at home or in the park or gym, see 5:2/IF Exercise Thread #3 OP

Food & Drink
I recommend a rough meal plan the evening before, every day
because once a hectic day has started, it's difficult to plan and source sensible food

I gather your treat meals and treat days have got out of hand again, as people keep bringing things in, or ordering them
That's always going to be a roadblock
Maybe choose one treat day per week and make healthier choices the rest of the week.

If someone is ordering pizza, make sure they add a salad for you, so you can have a couple of pizza slices with a big salad, with balsamic or vinaigrette dressing
Pile on the veg at your main meals

Remember the One Plate Rule:
1 plate per course, no seconds except veg

Also, rein back the alcohol to 1 glass per NFD, even on the treat day or at WEs
Have sparkling water, ice & a slice instead.
Drink lots more water all day.

OP posts:
SydneyCarton · 05/11/2019 06:53

Thanks 43 and BigChoc - you’re right that I have probably got used to eating more than I think, especially snacks. Crisps are my kryptonite with a glass of wine, and although I have been good at sticking to a medium glass 4 days a week, so one bottle per week, I have noticed recently that it’s turned into a large glass 4 days a week, and the less said about the amount of crisps the better...

Booze and crisps are off the menu for this month (apart from a couple of social occasions, but definitely none at home) and kitchen closed yesterday at 591. MFP downloaded and will be tracking my intake this week to see where I’m going wrong...