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Fasting / 5:2 diet

Talk about intermittent fasting and 5:2, including what’s worked for others. Mumsnet hasn't checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. You may wish to speak to a medical professional before starting any diet.

5:2 Thread number 87: It's my body and I can if I want to

981 replies

BigChocFrenzy · 14/09/2019 17:38

Welcome to the continuing thread for those following 5:2 or other forms of IF (Intermittent Fasting) such as 4:3, ADF, or daily 16:8 Smile

The 5:2 diet was introduced by Michael Mosely on BBC Horizon in August 2012:

Basically it is 2 very low cal days ("fasts") per week - which need not be consecutive - and eat "normally" to maintain on the other 5 days.

For those who have dieted or maybe overeaten for years, eating "normally"
means roughly the number of calories your body needs to maintain - NOT reduce - its weight (see TDEE calculator below).

IMPORTANT
If you have had past diagnosed Eating Disorders or serious MH problems you should NOT do 5:2 or any other kind of fasting

ACRONYMS

16:8 is a different type of fasting, which can be combined with 5:2.
Daily zero-cal fast for 16 hours and eat within an 8 hour window. To lose weight, this needs a weekly calorie deficit as well

4:3 = fast on 3 non-consecutive days per week

ADF (Alternate-Day Fasting) = fast every other day

b2b (optional) back-to-back / consecutive fast days, each with an increased allowance of 650 calories instead of 500

BMI (Body Mass Index) healthy range is 18.5 - 24.9 for Caucasians. Upper limit may be 22 for some of Asian origin.

FD = single Fast Day: aim for 500 calories (600 for men or 25% TDEE whichever is higher) or 1000 cals for BF
No alcohol or junk on FDs
Even if you exercise strenuously, do NOT increase FD cals to allow for exercise

MFP = My Fitness Pal, a useful App or website to track food & drink calories

miniFD = MiniFD, 850-1000 calories, no alcohol or junk

NFD = Non-Fast Day, averages around TDEE

NSV / LSV = Non Scale Victory / LifeStyle (change) Victory, e.g. compliment, smaller waist, clothes size

SV = Scale Victory

TDEE = Total Daily Energy Expenditure, the average number of calories you burn in a day, is calculated (see calculators below) from your current weight, height, age, activity level.
Aim to average about this for NFDs.

WOE / WOL = Way Of Eating / Way Of Life. We say this instead of "diet", to emphasise that we must make a permanent change in how we eat, to mainitain our new healthy weight longterm.

HOW TO START

. Take initial measurements: weight, waist, hips
. Use TDEE calculator below if you need a rough guide to how much to eat on NFDs
. Choose any 2 days for FDs, non-consecutive is easier.
. Before each FD: plan, shop & calorie count ALL food & drink for the day

Useful Resources & Calculators

Calorie Counter: mfp
Rough Calories for NFD: Mosely TDEE Calc (exercisers: set activity level to one below what you think)
BMI: Calc
Ideal Weight & Body Frame Size: Calc Wt Frame
Body Fat: BFat Calc
Choose / Visualise Goal Weight:
3D BMI body types ripped to normal
Bod Vis Measurements & 3D rotate]]

Safe Alcohol Calc: Calc Units Cals

FD Recipes:
Mosely LowCarb , low carb Diet Doc
BBC Good Food 52 , BBC Good Food 500 cal meals ,
Good2Know , Foodie Under 200 Cals
Vegetarian ,

FD Ready Meals, Fast Food

Any Day:
Meal Planner

FAQs / Tips

  • WATER: Start each day with a glass of water; and drink plenty during the day.
  • HOT DRINKS: No limits on tea or coffee, but on FDs count any milk / sugar calories.
  • SLEEP: Try to get enough sleep, or it may slow weight loss.
  • EXERCISE: is healthy & can help weight loss - BUT only if you do NOT eat back less than you burn. Fasted training can burn more fat.
HIIT and resistance training both work well with 5:2/IF.
  • FDs: If possible, choose days when you are busy, but not preparing meals for others.
Concentrate on protein & veg; avoid sugar or fruit juice. e.g. Stir-fries, soups & stews. Ready meals are OK.
  • BFers: start with 1000-cal FDs, optionally reduce to 700 cals gradually.
You can return to 1000 if growth spurts or sleep-deprivation require more fuel.
  • NFDs: No rules, but to improve health, try to cut down on added sugar & junk food, keep alcohol within safe limits. A few treats per week are fine.
  • Do NOT fast: if you've ever had EDs, or if pregnant, under 21, over-stressed, fever, stomach bug, even a bad cold.
  • CHECK with your Doctor: if you have diabetes, any other endocrine condition, any serious past or present medical condition, or if taking ANY prescribed medication (fasting may affect absorption rate)

Scientific Evidence for Fasting & Health

BBC article on the original Horizon program

Telegraph comments on 5:2 and gives a brief overview by Dr Mosley, useful for newbies.

This InterviewPart1 and InterviewPart2 with leading ADF researcher Dr Varady explains why fasting helps you to lose weight AND improves some health markers.

Fasting boosts "autophagy" = recycling of old cells
Yoshinori Ohsumi won the 2016 Nobel prize for Medicine for research into autophagy
NOBEL Lecture “Autophagy – An Intracellular Recycling System”

Prof. R Taylor (Newcastle Uni) won the 2013 Diabetes UK Banting Prize for his Twin Cycle Hypothesis re the cause of type 2 diabetes: Twin Cycle Hypothesis T2
and showed a fasting diet could reverse T2

Dr Michelle Harvie (funded by cancer charities) showed possible benefits of intermittent fasting compared to standard daily calorie reduction in her trials (consecutive FDs) with women at high risk of breast cancer: ComparingDiets , EarlierResearch52

Dr Johnson showed intermittent fasting helped Asthma

HORMESIS & Why Intermittent Fasting Works: Mattson , BlackSwan and Hormesis

Molecular Mechanisms and Clinical Applications: J CellMetabolism
Recent research into the health benefits of fasting: e.g. by world-respected neuroscientist Dr MarkMattson (Mosely referred to his research) showed:

. Improved glucose regulation
. Loss of abdominal fat with maintenance of muscle mass
. Reduced blood pressure and heart rate
. Improved learning and memory and motor function
. Protection of neurons in the brain against dysfunction and degeneration in animal models of Alzheimer’s disease, Parkinson’s disease, stroke and Huntington’s disease.

Brain metabolism in health, aging, andneurodegeneration :
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

He compared 5:2 to ordinary daily diets on overweight women with family history of breast cancer.
Fasting group lost more belly fat, retained more muscle & had slightly better blood sugar regulation.

More of his research is in HealthyAging , Health , AvoidParkinsonsDisease

His article in J Aging Mech Disease 2015 explains the health benefits of intermittent fasting in great scientific detail.

Why intermittent fasting and stopping snacking can lower your risk of serious diseases:
Meal frequency and timing in health and disease

Fasting can help maintain brain health during aging:
emboj.embopress.org/content/36/11/1474
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

This interview with leading researchers into fasting in combination with standard cancer treatment: ScientificDiscussion MoselyMattsonLongo and a LongoInterview

NY Times Fasting Overview

Research by other US and European scientists in this DailyTelegraph Article about the medicinal uses of fasting, for many serious conditions & diseases.

Recent trials with Type 2 diabetics and those at risk of having it used a form of daily fasting - skipping supper.
Their conclusions: eating 1-2 meals per day is better than several small meals for losing weight and controlling insulin levels, see Type2Paper

OP posts:
Thread gallery
8
BigChocFrenzy · 29/10/2019 12:47

Well done on your SV and FD, what

After 550 cals on FD1, you could have 750 cals on FD2, to make the 1300 total
Or have an FD say Thursday instead

You'll smash the 12 stone milestone soon, but it doesn't matter whether it's this week, or the next week or two

"it's a WOE not a race"

That sounds so tough, aber
Good sleep is really helpful on any weight loss program

Well done on the treat habit NSV; pineapple
That's good progress on retraining longterm habits

MrD A couple of FDs and good dumps should take care of most / all that regain

Try to kill the snack habit totally, FDs & all NFDs too
Then you won't struggle to resist it on vacations

Mosely and other fasting experts recommend No Snacking / grazing between meals
The advice has a strong scientific basis:
snacks keep insulin raised, hinder fat-burning and switch on fat storage
Human studies also show that snacking increases the total calorie intake

OP posts:
OohMrDarcy · 29/10/2019 16:14

Thanks bigchoc, weirdly I don't snack normally... but had some big drives in this break - 5hrs or so, and the car sweeties helped keep me awake and focused! Need to find a way to manage that in future.

OohMrDarcy · 30/10/2019 07:32

Morning all

Checking in for my FD. Yesterday didn't happen due to exhaustion. Had a couple of naps and plenty of rest so I'm back and ready to go today!

Whattodowithaminute · 30/10/2019 07:37

Good luck MrD glad you’re feeling better. I decided against b2b yesterday and am going for normal Thursday FD tomorrow, out for dinner tonight and Friday so need to do some damage control Grin

emcla · 30/10/2019 12:08

Fd for me. Back after an indulgent weekend. Tried my best but the place we stayed was very cold. Did lots of walking and no snacking. Jeans area bit tighter but not hopping on the scales until Sunday.

BigChocFrenzy · 30/10/2019 12:14

Good luck on your FDs, MrD, emcla

Being rested is a great help with fasting, MrD and also helps good choices on NFDs

emcla You did well on the WE with lots of walking and no snacking
A good FD and a couple of good dumps should take care of the over-indulgence

OP posts:
emcla · 30/10/2019 12:27

Hopefully that will sort me out bigchoc. I fell down on the water intake as it was so cold. Also I ate a good lot of bread.

Good luck to mrd today.

aberjenagain · 30/10/2019 17:12

FD here, planned as b2b with tomorrow, but DH has messaged to say he’s fetching fish and chips tonight... can anyone help me guesstimate calories?! I’ll probs have half a large battered cod, and we will share a large chips between me, DH and 2 DCs (4 and 6, so small shares for them). Am hoping I can bring today under 800, and then do 500 tomorrow to keep b2b. Won’t be stellar obvs, but hopefully better than sacking it off altogether? I’ve had 320 cals today already (tough FD)...

mrd and emcla hope your FDs are going well and considerably better than mine

emcla · 30/10/2019 18:48

Hi aber. Not a great fd. I will aim for another one tomorrow. I have finally thawed out after my weekend away. Brrr 🥶. I’m not at work this week. It’s definitely easier for me when I work.

OohMrDarcy · 30/10/2019 19:28

Kitchen closed on around 600 here, I'm taking that as a win after all the sugar over the trip!

emcla · 30/10/2019 20:10

Well done mrd.

BigChocFrenzy · 30/10/2019 20:15

well done, MrD

It's still a win, emcla, aber because you must both be miles under TDEE

Brrr, I think winter has almost arrived
I know November is supposed to be still Autumn, but I've also regarded it the start of winter

OP posts:
aberjenagain · 31/10/2019 17:19

Well done on yesterday’s FD mrd

Solidarity fist bump emcla - how did you get on today?

Thanks bcf, you’re right as ever! Way under tdee yesterday.

whattodo were you fasting today too?

Today has been better Smile Tough going, but managed so far on marmite, miso, and black coffee, and looking forward to chicken and leek pie for tea.

pineapple Thanks for the suggestion re my 4yo. I have always been loathe to interrupt the dcs’ sleep as my eldest was a terrible sleeper as a baby, but I may have to resort to this... in the meantime have discovered I can get size 7 pampers, so will give those a go! 🤞🏻

Whattodowithaminute · 31/10/2019 19:23

Was supposed to be a FD for me today but woke with a nasty cold; have postponed...

aberjenagain · 31/10/2019 19:50

Eurgh, sorry to hear that whattodo, hope you’re feeling much better very soon Flowers

BigChocFrenzy · 31/10/2019 21:22

I hope you feel a bit better tomorrow, what

Have you finished your FD, aber ?

OP posts:
aberjenagain · 01/11/2019 06:41

Finished yesterday on about 600 bcf Smile Very ready for the weekend.

BigChocFrenzy · 01/11/2019 07:53

Well done, aber
Enjoy your WE

OP posts:
OohMrDarcy · 01/11/2019 07:53

Checking in for Friday FD here, anyone else joining?

Hope you are feeling better soon what!

Well done on your FD aber, when are you weighing in next?

BigChocFrenzy · 01/11/2019 11:13

Good luck, MrD and any other Friday fasters

I've caught what's nasty cold, so I'm staying on the sofa today
I hardly ever get colds, but I've been cycling too much in the cold & rain

OP posts:
OohMrDarcy · 01/11/2019 11:16

booo rest up bigchoc and feel better soon. Maybe a nice warming soup for lunch will help?

EssentialHummus · 01/11/2019 13:16

Feel better soon bigchoc. Nfd today, aiming for a Sunday FD here.

aberjenagain · 01/11/2019 14:22

Thanks mrd. I’ve been weighing intermittently just not really talking about it as I don’t like the results Grin 144.4 today. Looking back, that averages at ~1 lb a week, so still very decent, but somehow feels like loss has slowed right down, and I’ve been feeling a bit frustrated. It’s a marathon not a sprint; aim is to build healthy habits for life etc etc. Also, have to remind myself I was expecting this to happen as think this weight is a ‘set point’ for me. I had my flu jab yesterday, and feeling a bit rough today (better than flu obvs!) so that’s not helping my mood

Hope your FD is going well Smile

Hope you’re feeling better soon bcf Flowers

Whattodowithaminute · 01/11/2019 15:01

Sorry BCF dint mean to share it with you... hope you’re better soon

OohMrDarcy · 01/11/2019 16:12

Kitchen closed on 540 here, happy with that.

aber - given the low weight (no idea how tall you are of course) I would expect loss to be slow now if I were you. I have been losing an average of 1.5lb a week now and I am a few stone heavier - I also calculated with my TDEE etc I'm losing bang on what I should be.