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Fasting / 5:2 diet

Talk about intermittent fasting and 5:2, including what’s worked for others. Mumsnet hasn't checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. You may wish to speak to a medical professional before starting any diet.

5:2 Thread number 87: It's my body and I can if I want to

981 replies

BigChocFrenzy · 14/09/2019 17:38

Welcome to the continuing thread for those following 5:2 or other forms of IF (Intermittent Fasting) such as 4:3, ADF, or daily 16:8 Smile

The 5:2 diet was introduced by Michael Mosely on BBC Horizon in August 2012:

Basically it is 2 very low cal days ("fasts") per week - which need not be consecutive - and eat "normally" to maintain on the other 5 days.

For those who have dieted or maybe overeaten for years, eating "normally"
means roughly the number of calories your body needs to maintain - NOT reduce - its weight (see TDEE calculator below).

IMPORTANT
If you have had past diagnosed Eating Disorders or serious MH problems you should NOT do 5:2 or any other kind of fasting

ACRONYMS

16:8 is a different type of fasting, which can be combined with 5:2.
Daily zero-cal fast for 16 hours and eat within an 8 hour window. To lose weight, this needs a weekly calorie deficit as well

4:3 = fast on 3 non-consecutive days per week

ADF (Alternate-Day Fasting) = fast every other day

b2b (optional) back-to-back / consecutive fast days, each with an increased allowance of 650 calories instead of 500

BMI (Body Mass Index) healthy range is 18.5 - 24.9 for Caucasians. Upper limit may be 22 for some of Asian origin.

FD = single Fast Day: aim for 500 calories (600 for men or 25% TDEE whichever is higher) or 1000 cals for BF
No alcohol or junk on FDs
Even if you exercise strenuously, do NOT increase FD cals to allow for exercise

MFP = My Fitness Pal, a useful App or website to track food & drink calories

miniFD = MiniFD, 850-1000 calories, no alcohol or junk

NFD = Non-Fast Day, averages around TDEE

NSV / LSV = Non Scale Victory / LifeStyle (change) Victory, e.g. compliment, smaller waist, clothes size

SV = Scale Victory

TDEE = Total Daily Energy Expenditure, the average number of calories you burn in a day, is calculated (see calculators below) from your current weight, height, age, activity level.
Aim to average about this for NFDs.

WOE / WOL = Way Of Eating / Way Of Life. We say this instead of "diet", to emphasise that we must make a permanent change in how we eat, to mainitain our new healthy weight longterm.

HOW TO START

. Take initial measurements: weight, waist, hips
. Use TDEE calculator below if you need a rough guide to how much to eat on NFDs
. Choose any 2 days for FDs, non-consecutive is easier.
. Before each FD: plan, shop & calorie count ALL food & drink for the day

Useful Resources & Calculators

Calorie Counter: mfp
Rough Calories for NFD: Mosely TDEE Calc (exercisers: set activity level to one below what you think)
BMI: Calc
Ideal Weight & Body Frame Size: Calc Wt Frame
Body Fat: BFat Calc
Choose / Visualise Goal Weight:
3D BMI body types ripped to normal
Bod Vis Measurements & 3D rotate]]

Safe Alcohol Calc: Calc Units Cals

FD Recipes:
Mosely LowCarb , low carb Diet Doc
BBC Good Food 52 , BBC Good Food 500 cal meals ,
Good2Know , Foodie Under 200 Cals
Vegetarian ,

FD Ready Meals, Fast Food

Any Day:
Meal Planner

FAQs / Tips

  • WATER: Start each day with a glass of water; and drink plenty during the day.
  • HOT DRINKS: No limits on tea or coffee, but on FDs count any milk / sugar calories.
  • SLEEP: Try to get enough sleep, or it may slow weight loss.
  • EXERCISE: is healthy & can help weight loss - BUT only if you do NOT eat back less than you burn. Fasted training can burn more fat.
HIIT and resistance training both work well with 5:2/IF.
  • FDs: If possible, choose days when you are busy, but not preparing meals for others.
Concentrate on protein & veg; avoid sugar or fruit juice. e.g. Stir-fries, soups & stews. Ready meals are OK.
  • BFers: start with 1000-cal FDs, optionally reduce to 700 cals gradually.
You can return to 1000 if growth spurts or sleep-deprivation require more fuel.
  • NFDs: No rules, but to improve health, try to cut down on added sugar & junk food, keep alcohol within safe limits. A few treats per week are fine.
  • Do NOT fast: if you've ever had EDs, or if pregnant, under 21, over-stressed, fever, stomach bug, even a bad cold.
  • CHECK with your Doctor: if you have diabetes, any other endocrine condition, any serious past or present medical condition, or if taking ANY prescribed medication (fasting may affect absorption rate)

Scientific Evidence for Fasting & Health

BBC article on the original Horizon program

Telegraph comments on 5:2 and gives a brief overview by Dr Mosley, useful for newbies.

This InterviewPart1 and InterviewPart2 with leading ADF researcher Dr Varady explains why fasting helps you to lose weight AND improves some health markers.

Fasting boosts "autophagy" = recycling of old cells
Yoshinori Ohsumi won the 2016 Nobel prize for Medicine for research into autophagy
NOBEL Lecture “Autophagy – An Intracellular Recycling System”

Prof. R Taylor (Newcastle Uni) won the 2013 Diabetes UK Banting Prize for his Twin Cycle Hypothesis re the cause of type 2 diabetes: Twin Cycle Hypothesis T2
and showed a fasting diet could reverse T2

Dr Michelle Harvie (funded by cancer charities) showed possible benefits of intermittent fasting compared to standard daily calorie reduction in her trials (consecutive FDs) with women at high risk of breast cancer: ComparingDiets , EarlierResearch52

Dr Johnson showed intermittent fasting helped Asthma

HORMESIS & Why Intermittent Fasting Works: Mattson , BlackSwan and Hormesis

Molecular Mechanisms and Clinical Applications: J CellMetabolism
Recent research into the health benefits of fasting: e.g. by world-respected neuroscientist Dr MarkMattson (Mosely referred to his research) showed:

. Improved glucose regulation
. Loss of abdominal fat with maintenance of muscle mass
. Reduced blood pressure and heart rate
. Improved learning and memory and motor function
. Protection of neurons in the brain against dysfunction and degeneration in animal models of Alzheimer’s disease, Parkinson’s disease, stroke and Huntington’s disease.

Brain metabolism in health, aging, andneurodegeneration :
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

He compared 5:2 to ordinary daily diets on overweight women with family history of breast cancer.
Fasting group lost more belly fat, retained more muscle & had slightly better blood sugar regulation.

More of his research is in HealthyAging , Health , AvoidParkinsonsDisease

His article in J Aging Mech Disease 2015 explains the health benefits of intermittent fasting in great scientific detail.

Why intermittent fasting and stopping snacking can lower your risk of serious diseases:
Meal frequency and timing in health and disease

Fasting can help maintain brain health during aging:
emboj.embopress.org/content/36/11/1474
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

This interview with leading researchers into fasting in combination with standard cancer treatment: ScientificDiscussion MoselyMattsonLongo and a LongoInterview

NY Times Fasting Overview

Research by other US and European scientists in this DailyTelegraph Article about the medicinal uses of fasting, for many serious conditions & diseases.

Recent trials with Type 2 diabetics and those at risk of having it used a form of daily fasting - skipping supper.
Their conclusions: eating 1-2 meals per day is better than several small meals for losing weight and controlling insulin levels, see Type2Paper

OP posts:
Thread gallery
8
BigChocFrenzy · 27/10/2019 10:52

FD today
Anyone else ? Hummus ?

I've just finished spin class and um .... any other twit completely forgot about the time change ? BlushGrin
I arrived and the gym was closed (opens 10 am at WE) so I had to have a leisurely 45 min stroll around first

OP posts:
EssentialHummus · 27/10/2019 11:09

I can lend you a toddler to help with the clock change bigchoc - up at 5am here Grin. No FD today - since Friday I have had some sort of tummy issue (will spare you all the details) so I'm not eating very much and just hoping to feel better soon. Calorie-wise it is probably a FD but I am feeling very sorry for myself!

BigChocFrenzy · 27/10/2019 13:41

Poor you, hummus 💐
I hope you are soon fit again - keep drinking plenty of water.

Remember, leave FDs for at least 5 days after symptoms have stopped, as fasting can restart them again if your gut isn't fully healed

< hurriedly refuses the kind offer of that 5 o'clock alarm ! >

OP posts:
BigChocFrenzy · 27/10/2019 20:19

FD nailed
I updated my watch - iPad did that itself, but I didn't look at it before the gym !

I hope you are feeling a bit better now, hummus
Have an early night, if you can

OP posts:
Whattodowithaminute · 27/10/2019 21:10

Well done BCF on gym and a FD I’m checking in for a FD tomorrow.

EssentialHummus · 27/10/2019 21:16

Well done bigchoc! Yup, climbing into bed imminently.

I have tasked DH with re-setting the microwave as that's the one "clock" where the combination of buttons totally defeats me and the instruction manual is nowhere to be found. The car also needs re-setting but it is a 23 year old Mercedes with only two clock buttons so I can't go too far wrong Grin.

BigChocFrenzy · 27/10/2019 22:13

Good luck tomorrow, what

hummus Any small DC will probably soon become the house tech expert Grin

OP posts:
Arifa97 · 28/10/2019 10:39

Thank you for all you support and wells done to everyone else on your progress! Also Hummus hope you’re feeling well soon.

I can report this morning I have had an SV 🎉. I have lost 1lb exactly from last week. I now weigh 8st 11lb. 8oz

Today I’m doing a mini FD and plan to do an FD tomorrow.

Whattodowithaminute · 28/10/2019 13:35

Anyone joining me on a FD today?
DH is here for dinner today so the non diet Thai curry we have planned is taking my entire calorie count-first FD I’ve done with no food until the evening-we won’t eat until 8ish tonight hoping for a 550 day.

Good luck on your mini today arifa
Hope your feeling better today hummus

Whattodowithaminute · 28/10/2019 13:37

Well done on SV too arifa!

inthethickofit19 · 28/10/2019 13:38

@Arifa97 well done!!

I've decided against an FD today. I've realised that I must've been overeating and so I need to train myself to eat to tdee. Also due on cycle which isn't helping matters. So prob best to postpone rather than fall off the wagon completely.

Will fast either on Thursday or on Monday next week. Oh and I'm going to be 30 in a few days!

Weight is stable at 10st 5.5lbs

EssentialHummus · 28/10/2019 13:40

Well done arifa! And advance happy birthday wishes inthe!

Whattodowithaminute · 28/10/2019 13:55

Sounds sensible inthethickofit you’ll get there slow and steady will win this race-I have a slightly ahem bigger birthday on Friday too so need to limit the inevitable damage that will inflict!

inthethickofit19 · 28/10/2019 17:41

Thanks @Whattodowithaminute and @EssentialHummus

BigChocFrenzy · 28/10/2019 18:02

Well done on your SV, Arifa

How is the fasting going today, Arifa, Whattodo ?

Birthday congratulations in advance to Whattodo, Inthethick 💐

I hope you are feeling better today, Hummus

OP posts:
Pineappleunder · 28/10/2019 18:40

Good work all. It's nice to log on to see everyone making progress in their own day.
I've had a good FD today and my first run for a few months.
Also been off booze entirely for over a week which helps with the NFD calories.
It's helping me to plan food for every meal even on NFD so that I don't go off track by snacking, or having too small a meal then getting over hungry (again leading to snacking.)

Pineappleunder · 28/10/2019 18:41

*their own way

Arifa97 · 28/10/2019 19:31

Thank you @BigChochFrenzy and everyone else!

The mini FD went well at 886. I am now tucked in bed sipping on green tea because I am freezing despite the heating being on lol!

That being said I did enjoy todays weather, y'know when its cold but sunny at the same time - that's my favourite kind of autumn weather.

BigChocFrenzy · 28/10/2019 20:17

Well done on your FD, pineapple and on resuming running
It's excellent for health if you can build up your fitness level

Your No Snacking NSV is important progress
Menu planning for the day in advance definitely helps retrain "normal eating" on NFDs

Many folk find booze leads to snacks & nibbles,
so the strategy if you want to drink, is to learn to have a glass or two with a meal instead and keep within NHS limits

Well done on your mini, Arifa
Stay warm and cosy; an early night helps boost the fasting benefits.

Bitterly cold suddenly here too and we had peasouper fog along the Rhine
So I've dug out my winter boots & scarves

OP posts:
aberjenagain · 28/10/2019 20:17

Checking in for another week Smile

Poor you hummus, hope you're feeling much better today. I thought my DCs' 5.30 post-clocks-changing start was bad...

Yay for the SV arifa!

thickofit I found reassessing what 'normal' looks like really helpful (and eye-opening...!) And really don't beat yourself up. Resisting temptation when you are sleep-deprived and exhausted is HARD, even without a relux-y baby to contend with too Flowers

Well done on the FDs pinepple, whattodo and arifa - I am always freezing on FDs - cup of tea in bed sounds like a great plan Smile

Decent weekend foodwise, but my chocolate consumption is creeping up - still within TDEE but need to nip in the bud the inclination to comfort eat my way through the winter months. I feel like if I break that habit then the battle is more or less won - winter seems to be my downfall, I just want to hibernate. FD tomorrow!

Whattodowithaminute · 28/10/2019 21:09

Closing the kitchen on 550ish as planned. Hard to get through the kids dinner tonight without eating it all...

Whattodowithaminute · 29/10/2019 06:50

1.5lb down this morning tantalisingly close to the 12st barrier-can I make it there by Friday?!!! Maybe I should b2b today but I have a big cup of milky coffee in my hand as I type...

aberjenagain · 29/10/2019 07:54

Great SV whattodo!

I was meant to be fasting today but have sacked it off - terrible night’s sleep after working late, and my 4yo’s nappy leaking yet again. Sharing a bed with a 4yo is not restful. As a side note, if anyone can recommend a solution to this regular problem, I will be forever indebted to you.

Now aiming for a b2b weds/thurs this week. Pain au chocolat and very strong coffee instead for me this morning!

OohMrDarcy · 29/10/2019 07:58

Morning all

Back from the half term road trip today, weighed in and gained 3.4lb - mostly through increased snacking I suspect, super long drives were at the heart of that.

Aiming for at least a mini today, will see how it goes. If it doesn't work out, tomorrow will be a full FD as kids off to their dads.

Will read back and catch up

Pineappleunder · 29/10/2019 09:51

That's brilliant @whattodo! Sending you positive vibes and slim thoughts for your goal of Friday.

@aber could you try taking your 4yo for a sleepy wee when you head to bed? Might just mean there is less in there to leak?

I've had a sort of NSV. My husband (never cooks) made a cheesecake for family lunch on Sunday. We managed to avoid finishing it off on Sunday evening and as it was a FD yesterday obviously didn't have any then. That means it can be a lovely treat today. Usually I am appalling at resisting if there are treats in the house- if it's there I'll eat it. I reckon it will taste even better having looked at it and held off for 2 days. :)

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