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Fasting / 5:2 diet

Talk about intermittent fasting and 5:2, including what’s worked for others. Mumsnet hasn't checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. You may wish to speak to a medical professional before starting any diet.

5:2 Thread number 87: It's my body and I can if I want to

981 replies

BigChocFrenzy · 14/09/2019 17:38

Welcome to the continuing thread for those following 5:2 or other forms of IF (Intermittent Fasting) such as 4:3, ADF, or daily 16:8 Smile

The 5:2 diet was introduced by Michael Mosely on BBC Horizon in August 2012:

Basically it is 2 very low cal days ("fasts") per week - which need not be consecutive - and eat "normally" to maintain on the other 5 days.

For those who have dieted or maybe overeaten for years, eating "normally"
means roughly the number of calories your body needs to maintain - NOT reduce - its weight (see TDEE calculator below).

IMPORTANT
If you have had past diagnosed Eating Disorders or serious MH problems you should NOT do 5:2 or any other kind of fasting

ACRONYMS

16:8 is a different type of fasting, which can be combined with 5:2.
Daily zero-cal fast for 16 hours and eat within an 8 hour window. To lose weight, this needs a weekly calorie deficit as well

4:3 = fast on 3 non-consecutive days per week

ADF (Alternate-Day Fasting) = fast every other day

b2b (optional) back-to-back / consecutive fast days, each with an increased allowance of 650 calories instead of 500

BMI (Body Mass Index) healthy range is 18.5 - 24.9 for Caucasians. Upper limit may be 22 for some of Asian origin.

FD = single Fast Day: aim for 500 calories (600 for men or 25% TDEE whichever is higher) or 1000 cals for BF
No alcohol or junk on FDs
Even if you exercise strenuously, do NOT increase FD cals to allow for exercise

MFP = My Fitness Pal, a useful App or website to track food & drink calories

miniFD = MiniFD, 850-1000 calories, no alcohol or junk

NFD = Non-Fast Day, averages around TDEE

NSV / LSV = Non Scale Victory / LifeStyle (change) Victory, e.g. compliment, smaller waist, clothes size

SV = Scale Victory

TDEE = Total Daily Energy Expenditure, the average number of calories you burn in a day, is calculated (see calculators below) from your current weight, height, age, activity level.
Aim to average about this for NFDs.

WOE / WOL = Way Of Eating / Way Of Life. We say this instead of "diet", to emphasise that we must make a permanent change in how we eat, to mainitain our new healthy weight longterm.

HOW TO START

. Take initial measurements: weight, waist, hips
. Use TDEE calculator below if you need a rough guide to how much to eat on NFDs
. Choose any 2 days for FDs, non-consecutive is easier.
. Before each FD: plan, shop & calorie count ALL food & drink for the day

Useful Resources & Calculators

Calorie Counter: mfp
Rough Calories for NFD: Mosely TDEE Calc (exercisers: set activity level to one below what you think)
BMI: Calc
Ideal Weight & Body Frame Size: Calc Wt Frame
Body Fat: BFat Calc
Choose / Visualise Goal Weight:
3D BMI body types ripped to normal
Bod Vis Measurements & 3D rotate]]

Safe Alcohol Calc: Calc Units Cals

FD Recipes:
Mosely LowCarb , low carb Diet Doc
BBC Good Food 52 , BBC Good Food 500 cal meals ,
Good2Know , Foodie Under 200 Cals
Vegetarian ,

FD Ready Meals, Fast Food

Any Day:
Meal Planner

FAQs / Tips

  • WATER: Start each day with a glass of water; and drink plenty during the day.
  • HOT DRINKS: No limits on tea or coffee, but on FDs count any milk / sugar calories.
  • SLEEP: Try to get enough sleep, or it may slow weight loss.
  • EXERCISE: is healthy & can help weight loss - BUT only if you do NOT eat back less than you burn. Fasted training can burn more fat.
HIIT and resistance training both work well with 5:2/IF.
  • FDs: If possible, choose days when you are busy, but not preparing meals for others.
Concentrate on protein & veg; avoid sugar or fruit juice. e.g. Stir-fries, soups & stews. Ready meals are OK.
  • BFers: start with 1000-cal FDs, optionally reduce to 700 cals gradually.
You can return to 1000 if growth spurts or sleep-deprivation require more fuel.
  • NFDs: No rules, but to improve health, try to cut down on added sugar & junk food, keep alcohol within safe limits. A few treats per week are fine.
  • Do NOT fast: if you've ever had EDs, or if pregnant, under 21, over-stressed, fever, stomach bug, even a bad cold.
  • CHECK with your Doctor: if you have diabetes, any other endocrine condition, any serious past or present medical condition, or if taking ANY prescribed medication (fasting may affect absorption rate)

Scientific Evidence for Fasting & Health

BBC article on the original Horizon program

Telegraph comments on 5:2 and gives a brief overview by Dr Mosley, useful for newbies.

This InterviewPart1 and InterviewPart2 with leading ADF researcher Dr Varady explains why fasting helps you to lose weight AND improves some health markers.

Fasting boosts "autophagy" = recycling of old cells
Yoshinori Ohsumi won the 2016 Nobel prize for Medicine for research into autophagy
NOBEL Lecture “Autophagy – An Intracellular Recycling System”

Prof. R Taylor (Newcastle Uni) won the 2013 Diabetes UK Banting Prize for his Twin Cycle Hypothesis re the cause of type 2 diabetes: Twin Cycle Hypothesis T2
and showed a fasting diet could reverse T2

Dr Michelle Harvie (funded by cancer charities) showed possible benefits of intermittent fasting compared to standard daily calorie reduction in her trials (consecutive FDs) with women at high risk of breast cancer: ComparingDiets , EarlierResearch52

Dr Johnson showed intermittent fasting helped Asthma

HORMESIS & Why Intermittent Fasting Works: Mattson , BlackSwan and Hormesis

Molecular Mechanisms and Clinical Applications: J CellMetabolism
Recent research into the health benefits of fasting: e.g. by world-respected neuroscientist Dr MarkMattson (Mosely referred to his research) showed:

. Improved glucose regulation
. Loss of abdominal fat with maintenance of muscle mass
. Reduced blood pressure and heart rate
. Improved learning and memory and motor function
. Protection of neurons in the brain against dysfunction and degeneration in animal models of Alzheimer’s disease, Parkinson’s disease, stroke and Huntington’s disease.

Brain metabolism in health, aging, andneurodegeneration :
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

He compared 5:2 to ordinary daily diets on overweight women with family history of breast cancer.
Fasting group lost more belly fat, retained more muscle & had slightly better blood sugar regulation.

More of his research is in HealthyAging , Health , AvoidParkinsonsDisease

His article in J Aging Mech Disease 2015 explains the health benefits of intermittent fasting in great scientific detail.

Why intermittent fasting and stopping snacking can lower your risk of serious diseases:
Meal frequency and timing in health and disease

Fasting can help maintain brain health during aging:
emboj.embopress.org/content/36/11/1474
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

This interview with leading researchers into fasting in combination with standard cancer treatment: ScientificDiscussion MoselyMattsonLongo and a LongoInterview

NY Times Fasting Overview

Research by other US and European scientists in this DailyTelegraph Article about the medicinal uses of fasting, for many serious conditions & diseases.

Recent trials with Type 2 diabetics and those at risk of having it used a form of daily fasting - skipping supper.
Their conclusions: eating 1-2 meals per day is better than several small meals for losing weight and controlling insulin levels, see Type2Paper

OP posts:
Thread gallery
8
Fillybuster · 23/10/2019 22:00

Welcome back Pineapple Smile

Well done emcla! Fab results...you’re really hitting a groove!

Checking out, sort of...I ended up having a salad poke bowl for lunch (sushi style tuna fish, marinaded, on a plain leaf base, with chunks of pineapple & chilli and some plain edamame beans....I don’t think that’s too bad - no dressings apart from soy!) and Iceni’s egg and chickpea curry for dinner. Made it to pump again tonight too (it hurt!) Feeling pretty good, and hopefully will be somewhere back near 9,11 tomorrow.

Thinking about a b2b tomorrow....actually, that would mean I’ve come in on or under calories for today....hmmm....

BigChocFrenzy · 23/10/2019 23:56

Well done, filly

OP posts:
Fillybuster · 24/10/2019 06:53

Thanks BigChoc Smile I’m in awe of your activity levels....every time I think I’m doing pretty well at the whole gym thing I read one of your updates and realise I have a long way to go! Must say that a long walk along the Rhine sounds an awful lot more appealing than navigating the semi broken jubilee line to Canary Wharf at the moment......it’s such a grim way to start and finish the working day, it’s pretty hard to motivate myself to go to the gym in the evening or stick to a FD in the mornings - by the time I get to work or home I just want to collapse with carbs and sugar!!

Back to 9.11 on the nose this morning so going to aim for a b2b today with boxercise tonight before I eat at 9pm. No big plans for the weekend so I might be able to retain some gains for a change! Grin

Good luck to the Thursday fasters Flowers

EssentialHummus · 24/10/2019 07:28

I’m with you today filly - didn’t get my usual Tuesday in as we had guests.

I agree about the commute - I wfh now but DH has resorted to taking a bus into the West End, slower but much less crowded.

Whattodowithaminute · 24/10/2019 08:29

Morning all. Checking in for a FD today with you filly and hummus have had a couple of weeks off due to illness and holiday. Bit last minute FD so let’s see how it goes normally plan a bit more but probably soup for lunch and tuna salad for dinner.

Weigh in this morning at 12st 3 which puts me 10lbs down since I started a month ago. Have a week until birthday but more importantly 3 weeks until birthday party dinner and really motivated to look great for that so feeling positive.

Good luck all everyone is doing really well I love to read the progress stories and support here.

BigChocFrenzy · 24/10/2019 08:50

Good luck, Filly, Hummus and any other Thursday fasters

If I had a horrible commute I probably wouldn't exercise as much as you do, filly
Your boxercise sounds brilliant
Well done on your SV

Yep, wfh can significantly enhance quality of daily life, hummus;
you also have so much more time for exercise & proper meals

Being an Aspie, I've always had to prioritise an easy bike / foot commute, or I wouldn't be able to cope.

I've deliberately chosen to live right on the Rhine bank to make sure I walk a lot;
walking in the countryside is excellent psychologically & for the "executive functions" of the brain - and this will be where I retire next year.

Now I'm sitting on my sofa drinking my cocoa and looking out along the gorgeous Rhine, so of course I'm eager for a walk now Smile
Just 3 km this morning ..... but it's along the fields to my dental checkup & clean AARGH Grin

OP posts:
BigChocFrenzy · 24/10/2019 08:52

Congratulations on your SV, Whattodo
That's great you are so positive
Stay focused for the next week and you can feel at your best for the birthday dinner

OP posts:
OohMrDarcy · 24/10/2019 09:26

Morning all

Checking in for my Thursday FD here. Having a stir fry for my meal later, nice to see lots of people in the same boat today - filly, hummus, and whattodo!

Welcome back to starling and pineapple

Congrats on the SVs starling, emcla and whattodo!

Fingers crossed I shall have one to post myself before we go away tomorrow evening! Grin

EssentialHummus · 24/10/2019 09:47

It’s the same for me bigchoc - I found the commute more difficult than the job!

Good luck too mrd.

Fillybuster · 24/10/2019 10:13

Lovely to have FD company - good luck everyone! And fingers crossed for your update MrD Grin

emcla · 24/10/2019 11:25

Good luck Thursday fasters !

BigChocFrenzy · 24/10/2019 12:21

Good luck, MrD

I'm back, with all my teeth intact Smile and sitting in our regional prize-winning restaurant waiting for my fav meal:
delic pumpkin soup with oil & seeds, salmon fillet & mixed salad, rye bread

OP posts:
OohMrDarcy · 24/10/2019 12:57

Glad to hear the teeth are all good bigchoc, I hate going to the dentist!

Enjoy your delicious lunch! (and don't break a tooth on the seeds Wink )

Whattodowithaminute · 24/10/2019 15:57

How are Thursday fasters doing? I struggled at lunch (kids here and they all wanted crisps so that’s 70 calories I should have had tomorrow instead Blush) fingers crossed shouldn’t have been too detrimental. Will have dinner with them and then head to bed early.

Good luck on the SV MrD
BCF the Rhine is a lovely part of the world I have fond memories of many holidays there as a youngster-we lived in Germany for many years and often holidayed there.

EssentialHummus · 24/10/2019 16:15

Half term can be super difficult what, just don’t do my thing of “Oh well, today’s a write off anyway”.

So far I’ve had coffee x 2 and some soup. We haven’t left the house yet, weather is atrocious here today.

OohMrDarcy · 24/10/2019 17:36

Kitchen closed on 494 plus a cuppa later. Stir fry was yummy.

Hows is everyone else doing?

Whattodowithaminute · 24/10/2019 17:43

Well done MrD
Found a smaller tin of tuna so managed to close kitchen at 455 (even with the crisps...)
Good luck to the rest of you...!

BigChocFrenzy · 24/10/2019 18:57

Well done, MrD, WhatToDo

How are you doing, Hummus ?
i hope you managed a glimpse of sun

Just finished our group Autumn dinner, which I organised, all delic

  • All teeth doing well, another 6 months until the next dreaded checkup, MrD
  • WhatToDo you'll probably remember Federweisser, Zwiebelkuchen & Flammkuchen
OP posts:
EssentialHummus · 24/10/2019 19:13

All done here - small amount of soup for dinner and a dispersible multivitamin in a giant glass of water. No idea of calories but was aiming for around 500.

We didn’t go out all day Blush. I did however sort lots of boxes etc that had been lying around since we moved several years ago, with toddler “help” so that’s something at least.

Arifa97 · 24/10/2019 19:29

First fast day complete on 5:2 with 496. For dinner pesto chicken with roasted med veg. Now I am enjoying a cuppa with strawberries and unsweetened yoghurt.

ListeningQuietly · 24/10/2019 19:55

Am being utterly rubbish at sticking anywhere near 500 calories
but am back on a roll of fasting most of the day ....
4 days a week = just supper
3 days a week = a very small meal and then a bigger supper
mixed with LOTS of exercise I'm holding weight steady
which is reassuring

and NO SNACKING Grin Wink

inthethickofit19 · 24/10/2019 20:19

Hi waves

I've been here before as purpleviolet and made great progress to my end goal before I got pregnant with my second. He's 6 months now and we've had a hell of a ride. He has cmpa and severe silent reflux. He's on a hypoallergenic formula but the reflux is so bad that the paediatrician thinks he's reacting to something in it. Anyway he's on 4 medications and we've just started weaning. He's waking up even more with terrible gas. It's only got to get better, right?

I know I'm not getting anywhere close to enough sleep but I'm eating horrendously to keep myself going and i feel terrible for it. I'm back to just over my weight prior to starting 5:2 and am at my heaviest. But my biggest motivation is how I'm feeling. I felt so much better on 5:2. My fibromyalgia symptoms were much less. I had 80% pancreas and spleen removed back in 2011 so the break from food really seems to help me.

So here I am.

Current weight 10 st 5.5lbs
Initial goal 9 stone
Final goal 8 stone
Height 5'2.5 Grin
TDEE is 1633 but I'll round it to 1600.

Tried a fast day today and had the most awful headache that I had to Jack it in. I think it was sugar withdrawal related 😳😳😳

I plan to eat to tdee next few days and have a fast day on Monday. Will cut out fizzy drinks from now.

Wish me luck! I really need it

inthethickofit19 · 24/10/2019 20:21

Nice to see you are still around @OohMrDarcy and you ofcourse @BigChocFrenzy

EssentialHummus · 24/10/2019 20:26

Hi inthe, welcome back! I was there not too long ago with the eat/sleep/sugar thing after I had DD, I remember it very well. Keep posting, you're sounding very motivated.

Well done arifa and listening too, nice to read so many others' posts.

OohMrDarcy · 24/10/2019 20:32

Lots of fab FDs going on today, well done all!

Welcome back inthe, I remember those days well ! Took me 3 years to break those sugar addict days for me mind 🙄