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Fasting / 5:2 diet

Talk about intermittent fasting and 5:2, including what’s worked for others. Mumsnet hasn't checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. You may wish to speak to a medical professional before starting any diet.

5:2 Thread number 87: It's my body and I can if I want to

981 replies

BigChocFrenzy · 14/09/2019 17:38

Welcome to the continuing thread for those following 5:2 or other forms of IF (Intermittent Fasting) such as 4:3, ADF, or daily 16:8 Smile

The 5:2 diet was introduced by Michael Mosely on BBC Horizon in August 2012:

Basically it is 2 very low cal days ("fasts") per week - which need not be consecutive - and eat "normally" to maintain on the other 5 days.

For those who have dieted or maybe overeaten for years, eating "normally"
means roughly the number of calories your body needs to maintain - NOT reduce - its weight (see TDEE calculator below).

IMPORTANT
If you have had past diagnosed Eating Disorders or serious MH problems you should NOT do 5:2 or any other kind of fasting

ACRONYMS

16:8 is a different type of fasting, which can be combined with 5:2.
Daily zero-cal fast for 16 hours and eat within an 8 hour window. To lose weight, this needs a weekly calorie deficit as well

4:3 = fast on 3 non-consecutive days per week

ADF (Alternate-Day Fasting) = fast every other day

b2b (optional) back-to-back / consecutive fast days, each with an increased allowance of 650 calories instead of 500

BMI (Body Mass Index) healthy range is 18.5 - 24.9 for Caucasians. Upper limit may be 22 for some of Asian origin.

FD = single Fast Day: aim for 500 calories (600 for men or 25% TDEE whichever is higher) or 1000 cals for BF
No alcohol or junk on FDs
Even if you exercise strenuously, do NOT increase FD cals to allow for exercise

MFP = My Fitness Pal, a useful App or website to track food & drink calories

miniFD = MiniFD, 850-1000 calories, no alcohol or junk

NFD = Non-Fast Day, averages around TDEE

NSV / LSV = Non Scale Victory / LifeStyle (change) Victory, e.g. compliment, smaller waist, clothes size

SV = Scale Victory

TDEE = Total Daily Energy Expenditure, the average number of calories you burn in a day, is calculated (see calculators below) from your current weight, height, age, activity level.
Aim to average about this for NFDs.

WOE / WOL = Way Of Eating / Way Of Life. We say this instead of "diet", to emphasise that we must make a permanent change in how we eat, to mainitain our new healthy weight longterm.

HOW TO START

. Take initial measurements: weight, waist, hips
. Use TDEE calculator below if you need a rough guide to how much to eat on NFDs
. Choose any 2 days for FDs, non-consecutive is easier.
. Before each FD: plan, shop & calorie count ALL food & drink for the day

Useful Resources & Calculators

Calorie Counter: mfp
Rough Calories for NFD: Mosely TDEE Calc (exercisers: set activity level to one below what you think)
BMI: Calc
Ideal Weight & Body Frame Size: Calc Wt Frame
Body Fat: BFat Calc
Choose / Visualise Goal Weight:
3D BMI body types ripped to normal
Bod Vis Measurements & 3D rotate]]

Safe Alcohol Calc: Calc Units Cals

FD Recipes:
Mosely LowCarb , low carb Diet Doc
BBC Good Food 52 , BBC Good Food 500 cal meals ,
Good2Know , Foodie Under 200 Cals
Vegetarian ,

FD Ready Meals, Fast Food

Any Day:
Meal Planner

FAQs / Tips

  • WATER: Start each day with a glass of water; and drink plenty during the day.
  • HOT DRINKS: No limits on tea or coffee, but on FDs count any milk / sugar calories.
  • SLEEP: Try to get enough sleep, or it may slow weight loss.
  • EXERCISE: is healthy & can help weight loss - BUT only if you do NOT eat back less than you burn. Fasted training can burn more fat.
HIIT and resistance training both work well with 5:2/IF.
  • FDs: If possible, choose days when you are busy, but not preparing meals for others.
Concentrate on protein & veg; avoid sugar or fruit juice. e.g. Stir-fries, soups & stews. Ready meals are OK.
  • BFers: start with 1000-cal FDs, optionally reduce to 700 cals gradually.
You can return to 1000 if growth spurts or sleep-deprivation require more fuel.
  • NFDs: No rules, but to improve health, try to cut down on added sugar & junk food, keep alcohol within safe limits. A few treats per week are fine.
  • Do NOT fast: if you've ever had EDs, or if pregnant, under 21, over-stressed, fever, stomach bug, even a bad cold.
  • CHECK with your Doctor: if you have diabetes, any other endocrine condition, any serious past or present medical condition, or if taking ANY prescribed medication (fasting may affect absorption rate)

Scientific Evidence for Fasting & Health

BBC article on the original Horizon program

Telegraph comments on 5:2 and gives a brief overview by Dr Mosley, useful for newbies.

This InterviewPart1 and InterviewPart2 with leading ADF researcher Dr Varady explains why fasting helps you to lose weight AND improves some health markers.

Fasting boosts "autophagy" = recycling of old cells
Yoshinori Ohsumi won the 2016 Nobel prize for Medicine for research into autophagy
NOBEL Lecture “Autophagy – An Intracellular Recycling System”

Prof. R Taylor (Newcastle Uni) won the 2013 Diabetes UK Banting Prize for his Twin Cycle Hypothesis re the cause of type 2 diabetes: Twin Cycle Hypothesis T2
and showed a fasting diet could reverse T2

Dr Michelle Harvie (funded by cancer charities) showed possible benefits of intermittent fasting compared to standard daily calorie reduction in her trials (consecutive FDs) with women at high risk of breast cancer: ComparingDiets , EarlierResearch52

Dr Johnson showed intermittent fasting helped Asthma

HORMESIS & Why Intermittent Fasting Works: Mattson , BlackSwan and Hormesis

Molecular Mechanisms and Clinical Applications: J CellMetabolism
Recent research into the health benefits of fasting: e.g. by world-respected neuroscientist Dr MarkMattson (Mosely referred to his research) showed:

. Improved glucose regulation
. Loss of abdominal fat with maintenance of muscle mass
. Reduced blood pressure and heart rate
. Improved learning and memory and motor function
. Protection of neurons in the brain against dysfunction and degeneration in animal models of Alzheimer’s disease, Parkinson’s disease, stroke and Huntington’s disease.

Brain metabolism in health, aging, andneurodegeneration :
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

He compared 5:2 to ordinary daily diets on overweight women with family history of breast cancer.
Fasting group lost more belly fat, retained more muscle & had slightly better blood sugar regulation.

More of his research is in HealthyAging , Health , AvoidParkinsonsDisease

His article in J Aging Mech Disease 2015 explains the health benefits of intermittent fasting in great scientific detail.

Why intermittent fasting and stopping snacking can lower your risk of serious diseases:
Meal frequency and timing in health and disease

Fasting can help maintain brain health during aging:
emboj.embopress.org/content/36/11/1474
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

This interview with leading researchers into fasting in combination with standard cancer treatment: ScientificDiscussion MoselyMattsonLongo and a LongoInterview

NY Times Fasting Overview

Research by other US and European scientists in this DailyTelegraph Article about the medicinal uses of fasting, for many serious conditions & diseases.

Recent trials with Type 2 diabetics and those at risk of having it used a form of daily fasting - skipping supper.
Their conclusions: eating 1-2 meals per day is better than several small meals for losing weight and controlling insulin levels, see Type2Paper

OP posts:
Thread gallery
8
OohMrDarcy · 22/10/2019 09:03

haha - you are right I am normally Tuesday / Friday - but we go away Friday for a few days so moved to Monday / Thursday this week so I still got the FDs in Grin

aberjenagain · 22/10/2019 11:26

emcla did you know you can slightly up your cals for b2b fast days? Assuming you did ~500 cals yesterday, your allowance today would be ~800 (ie for b2b FDs it's 1300 cals across the 2 days) Smile

BigChocFrenzy · 22/10/2019 11:43

Good luck, emcla

As aber says: there is a higher cals allowance for b2b FDs
You can either have 650 cals per day,
or keep to around 500 or so the first day and have 800 on FD2

This latter system works well, because you start FD2 already in a fasted state
and if for some reason you can't do FD2 - e.g. a surprise invitation / visit - then at least you nailed FD1 as a standard FD

OP posts:
emcla · 22/10/2019 11:54

Thanks aber and bigchoc. Will bear that in mind. Fillet steak for dinner tonight. Looking forward to that. 2 coffees so far with fat free milk. Having warm water now and going for my walk/ run at lunchtime.

emcla · 22/10/2019 15:06

How’s everyone doing? Had a low cal veg soup at lunchtime and went for my walk /run. Not long now.

aberjenagain · 22/10/2019 17:25

Doing okay here - copious quantities of bock coffee, miso soup for lunch, and getting a cauliflower and chickpea curry ready now

aberjenagain · 22/10/2019 17:25

*black coffee

BigChocFrenzy · 22/10/2019 17:48

You're doing well, emcla

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BigChocFrenzy · 22/10/2019 17:48

That's a good plan, aber

OP posts:
emcla · 22/10/2019 17:57

All done. Whew. Might do a mini on Thursday or Friday in anticipation of my weekend.

aberjenagain · 22/10/2019 18:20

All done here now too, on 450. Feeling stuffed - that curry was very filling Shock

BigChocFrenzy · 22/10/2019 20:48

Well done, emcla, aber

That curry sounds ace, aber
That's a good idea before your 3-day WE, emcla

OP posts:
ListeningQuietly · 22/10/2019 20:53

I was relatively good all day today

had an interesting chat with a bloke at the gym yesterday
he was on the boditrax machine and it has said he was 15 years older than his real age
for me it comes out at 16 years below
I encouraged him to strengthen his core, stop snacking and know that its never too late to lose weight and get fit
another friend who overheard the conversation said he looked SO much happier after

which does not really offset my wine with dinner, sorry BIGCHOC

Fillybuster · 22/10/2019 23:37

Delighted to report that the final day of festivities is over.....phew! I thought I had exercised reasonable self control but the scales suggest otherwise this evening (up 4lbs!). But I did Pump and Boxercise tonight - yes, 2 hours solid of utterly evil classes - and no dinner, just herbal tea, so hoping that either a FD or MFD (if hunger kicks in really badly at lunchtime considering I last ate at 3pm today) will help me to reset. I didn’t get a chance to check in after the Sunday / Monday but got right back to 9.11 before today’s excess.
So so so looking forward to some normal weeks and no alcohol for a while now!
Well done to all the Tuesday fasters Smile

StarlingSong · 23/10/2019 00:23

Hi all! Haven't posted in a long while but have enjoyed reading all your excellent questions/advice/experiences and amazing results!

I've been fasting for a while now but having just gotten back from a holiday and feeling sluggish and bloated so have recommitted to nailing my FDs. So far so good, am 2kg down from 'just back from holiday' weight and going strong. I love how clear and energised I feel after a FD - it's definitely going to be my lifestyle for life.

Just after some quick advice - would it be OK to start skipping breakfast on my NFDs? I'm finding I have a problem with portion size on NFDs - which MFP backed up (!) - and that if I have breakfast it leads me to feeling hungrier and eating more as the day goes on. This last week I've been feeling fine and energised on black coffee and water until lunch time. I guess I'm just worried I'm becoming too restrictive with myself but I have 10+ kg to lose so I'm not going to waste away any time soon Smile

Any and all advice greatly appreciated!

BigChocFrenzy · 23/10/2019 00:40

Welcome back and well done on your SV, starling

It's fine to skip NFD breakfast if you want - some people do better with breakfast, others without
You'd basically be doing 14:10 or 16:8, which is eating within a shorter time window, of 10 or 8 hours.

This can help control NFDs and boost weight loss - if it's a system you feel happy with and find sustainable longterm

Well done on a good day, listening
I'm envious of your boditrax: My gym is v good for trainers, classes & weight room, but doesn't have one
Just has a set of scales which flatters by 2-3 kg !

Good exercise, filly
Now after all the festivals, you can get back on track with the eating & drinking,
which is the dominant factor in weight management for almost everyone
Those extra lb should soon disappear again

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StarlingSong · 23/10/2019 06:48

Thank you for the reassurance BCF, it's feeling good to me right now so will keep on.

Good luck to all who are fasting today!

emcla · 23/10/2019 07:32

Good luck to all you Wednesday fasters.

On a positive note I weight 9st 2 now so down about half a stone. Sounding approximate as I have a very old fashioned scales and not a digital one so being as precise as I can. So happy. Don’t feel hungry this morning so just a pint of water and a coffee for me. Bigchoc your boot camp is working. Better result than I could have dreamed of.

Pineappleunder · 23/10/2019 09:09

Rejoining after a long and disappointing break which has seen me back to my starting weight.
First fast day today.
I know it's going to be tricky but I just need to keep reminding myself that hunger passes. Once I'm back into it it will become easier again.

emcla · 23/10/2019 10:08

Good luck pineapple.

aberjenagain · 23/10/2019 10:36

Good luck pineapple. I'm fasting today too and sounds like we are in a similar boat - I restarted 5:2 in July after regaining all the weight I'd lost (and then some...). Am now back down 20 lbs with another 12–20 lbs to go

Congrats on your SV emcla!

emcla · 23/10/2019 10:48

Thanks aber 🤗. I have no appetite today. Weird.

BigChocFrenzy · 23/10/2019 11:26

Fab news, emcla
Congratulations on your SV

Welcome back, pineapple
You'll soon get into the fasting swing

What is important for progress & later maintenance too, is to use NFDs to retrain longterm habits:
especially no snacking between meals, keep to NHS limits - & drink more water, eat more veg

Good luck today, pineapple, aber

This time when you get to goal, you know you need a maintenance plan, which we can discuss when you are nearly there
Almost everyone who has lost weight needs a specific plan, because otherwise ....

"If you slip back into your old WOL, then you slip back to your old weight & waist"

I'm fasting today, as we've a group Autumn celebration tomorrow - Federweisser & Zwiebelkuchen at my fav Rhein cafe

So far I've just had black coffee, a 3 km jog & 7 km Rhine walk, with advanced lifting this evening.
Busy day, so I'll just heat up bean, veg & quinoa soup for lunch and beef & asparagus soup after training
FDs are v useful to make time !

OP posts:
aberjenagain · 23/10/2019 18:32

Kitchen closed on 798.

How are you getting on pineapple?

BigChocFrenzy · 23/10/2019 19:45

Well done, aber
I'm just closing the kitchen too, on 550 cals.

How has your 1st FD back gone, pineapple ?
It's ok to ease back in gradually, if you need say an extra boiled egg for your supper

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