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Fasting / 5:2 diet

Talk about intermittent fasting and 5:2, including what’s worked for others. Mumsnet hasn't checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. You may wish to speak to a medical professional before starting any diet.

5:2 Thread number 87: It's my body and I can if I want to

981 replies

BigChocFrenzy · 14/09/2019 17:38

Welcome to the continuing thread for those following 5:2 or other forms of IF (Intermittent Fasting) such as 4:3, ADF, or daily 16:8 Smile

The 5:2 diet was introduced by Michael Mosely on BBC Horizon in August 2012:

Basically it is 2 very low cal days ("fasts") per week - which need not be consecutive - and eat "normally" to maintain on the other 5 days.

For those who have dieted or maybe overeaten for years, eating "normally"
means roughly the number of calories your body needs to maintain - NOT reduce - its weight (see TDEE calculator below).

IMPORTANT
If you have had past diagnosed Eating Disorders or serious MH problems you should NOT do 5:2 or any other kind of fasting

ACRONYMS

16:8 is a different type of fasting, which can be combined with 5:2.
Daily zero-cal fast for 16 hours and eat within an 8 hour window. To lose weight, this needs a weekly calorie deficit as well

4:3 = fast on 3 non-consecutive days per week

ADF (Alternate-Day Fasting) = fast every other day

b2b (optional) back-to-back / consecutive fast days, each with an increased allowance of 650 calories instead of 500

BMI (Body Mass Index) healthy range is 18.5 - 24.9 for Caucasians. Upper limit may be 22 for some of Asian origin.

FD = single Fast Day: aim for 500 calories (600 for men or 25% TDEE whichever is higher) or 1000 cals for BF
No alcohol or junk on FDs
Even if you exercise strenuously, do NOT increase FD cals to allow for exercise

MFP = My Fitness Pal, a useful App or website to track food & drink calories

miniFD = MiniFD, 850-1000 calories, no alcohol or junk

NFD = Non-Fast Day, averages around TDEE

NSV / LSV = Non Scale Victory / LifeStyle (change) Victory, e.g. compliment, smaller waist, clothes size

SV = Scale Victory

TDEE = Total Daily Energy Expenditure, the average number of calories you burn in a day, is calculated (see calculators below) from your current weight, height, age, activity level.
Aim to average about this for NFDs.

WOE / WOL = Way Of Eating / Way Of Life. We say this instead of "diet", to emphasise that we must make a permanent change in how we eat, to mainitain our new healthy weight longterm.

HOW TO START

. Take initial measurements: weight, waist, hips
. Use TDEE calculator below if you need a rough guide to how much to eat on NFDs
. Choose any 2 days for FDs, non-consecutive is easier.
. Before each FD: plan, shop & calorie count ALL food & drink for the day

Useful Resources & Calculators

Calorie Counter: mfp
Rough Calories for NFD: Mosely TDEE Calc (exercisers: set activity level to one below what you think)
BMI: Calc
Ideal Weight & Body Frame Size: Calc Wt Frame
Body Fat: BFat Calc
Choose / Visualise Goal Weight:
3D BMI body types ripped to normal
Bod Vis Measurements & 3D rotate]]

Safe Alcohol Calc: Calc Units Cals

FD Recipes:
Mosely LowCarb , low carb Diet Doc
BBC Good Food 52 , BBC Good Food 500 cal meals ,
Good2Know , Foodie Under 200 Cals
Vegetarian ,

FD Ready Meals, Fast Food

Any Day:
Meal Planner

FAQs / Tips

  • WATER: Start each day with a glass of water; and drink plenty during the day.
  • HOT DRINKS: No limits on tea or coffee, but on FDs count any milk / sugar calories.
  • SLEEP: Try to get enough sleep, or it may slow weight loss.
  • EXERCISE: is healthy & can help weight loss - BUT only if you do NOT eat back less than you burn. Fasted training can burn more fat.
HIIT and resistance training both work well with 5:2/IF.
  • FDs: If possible, choose days when you are busy, but not preparing meals for others.
Concentrate on protein & veg; avoid sugar or fruit juice. e.g. Stir-fries, soups & stews. Ready meals are OK.
  • BFers: start with 1000-cal FDs, optionally reduce to 700 cals gradually.
You can return to 1000 if growth spurts or sleep-deprivation require more fuel.
  • NFDs: No rules, but to improve health, try to cut down on added sugar & junk food, keep alcohol within safe limits. A few treats per week are fine.
  • Do NOT fast: if you've ever had EDs, or if pregnant, under 21, over-stressed, fever, stomach bug, even a bad cold.
  • CHECK with your Doctor: if you have diabetes, any other endocrine condition, any serious past or present medical condition, or if taking ANY prescribed medication (fasting may affect absorption rate)

Scientific Evidence for Fasting & Health

BBC article on the original Horizon program

Telegraph comments on 5:2 and gives a brief overview by Dr Mosley, useful for newbies.

This InterviewPart1 and InterviewPart2 with leading ADF researcher Dr Varady explains why fasting helps you to lose weight AND improves some health markers.

Fasting boosts "autophagy" = recycling of old cells
Yoshinori Ohsumi won the 2016 Nobel prize for Medicine for research into autophagy
NOBEL Lecture “Autophagy – An Intracellular Recycling System”

Prof. R Taylor (Newcastle Uni) won the 2013 Diabetes UK Banting Prize for his Twin Cycle Hypothesis re the cause of type 2 diabetes: Twin Cycle Hypothesis T2
and showed a fasting diet could reverse T2

Dr Michelle Harvie (funded by cancer charities) showed possible benefits of intermittent fasting compared to standard daily calorie reduction in her trials (consecutive FDs) with women at high risk of breast cancer: ComparingDiets , EarlierResearch52

Dr Johnson showed intermittent fasting helped Asthma

HORMESIS & Why Intermittent Fasting Works: Mattson , BlackSwan and Hormesis

Molecular Mechanisms and Clinical Applications: J CellMetabolism
Recent research into the health benefits of fasting: e.g. by world-respected neuroscientist Dr MarkMattson (Mosely referred to his research) showed:

. Improved glucose regulation
. Loss of abdominal fat with maintenance of muscle mass
. Reduced blood pressure and heart rate
. Improved learning and memory and motor function
. Protection of neurons in the brain against dysfunction and degeneration in animal models of Alzheimer’s disease, Parkinson’s disease, stroke and Huntington’s disease.

Brain metabolism in health, aging, andneurodegeneration :
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

He compared 5:2 to ordinary daily diets on overweight women with family history of breast cancer.
Fasting group lost more belly fat, retained more muscle & had slightly better blood sugar regulation.

More of his research is in HealthyAging , Health , AvoidParkinsonsDisease

His article in J Aging Mech Disease 2015 explains the health benefits of intermittent fasting in great scientific detail.

Why intermittent fasting and stopping snacking can lower your risk of serious diseases:
Meal frequency and timing in health and disease

Fasting can help maintain brain health during aging:
emboj.embopress.org/content/36/11/1474
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

This interview with leading researchers into fasting in combination with standard cancer treatment: ScientificDiscussion MoselyMattsonLongo and a LongoInterview

NY Times Fasting Overview

Research by other US and European scientists in this DailyTelegraph Article about the medicinal uses of fasting, for many serious conditions & diseases.

Recent trials with Type 2 diabetics and those at risk of having it used a form of daily fasting - skipping supper.
Their conclusions: eating 1-2 meals per day is better than several small meals for losing weight and controlling insulin levels, see Type2Paper

OP posts:
Thread gallery
8
BigChocFrenzy · 20/10/2019 16:17

Welcome, arifa 🙂

OP posts:
emcla · 20/10/2019 19:34

Great mrd. Good luck.

Fillybuster · 20/10/2019 19:49

Welcome Arifa!

Overdid it a bit with all the religious/social eating on Friday and Saturday (3lbs up this morning) so took rapid action - this is a V late FD check in....so late I’ve just checked out on about 450 with veggie chilli and a small amount of brown basmati rice!! Herbal tea and perhaps a square of 85% dark choc later on and I’m done. And squeezed in a boxercise class too!

Possibly a MFD tomorrow before the next (final, for now) batch of religious festivals and feasting. And drinking in the case of Monday night/Tuesday...

BigChocFrenzy · 20/10/2019 22:00

Well done on your FD, filly
That and a couple of good dumps should get rid of most of the gain

If you're drinking tomorrow night, then that would make tomorrow a sub-TDEE NFD, not a fast, but that would still help too.

OP posts:
OohMrDarcy · 21/10/2019 07:51

Morning all

Monday FD checkin here. Away this weekend so usual FDs moved to Mon / Thurs so I dont skip Friday.

Well done on your Sunday FD Filly

EssentialHummus · 21/10/2019 08:01

Morning all. We've got guests so I expect it will be a mini for me today, but will see how I get on. Aiming for a light lunch and then a larger supper later on. Good luck mrd , filly and any other fasters!

BigChocFrenzy · 21/10/2019 09:05

Good luck, MrD, Hummus and any other Monday fasters

Good luck on your sub-TDEE NFD, , filly but anyway enjoy your festival tonight & tomorrow

OP posts:
EssentialHummus · 21/10/2019 15:25

So far just coffee and a soup for lunch here, planning a big stir fry for dinner so that I can eat with DH and guest.

How are others getting on?

emcla · 21/10/2019 15:51

Well done so far essential. Getting on well also. Coffee tea and water here and a fast walk at lunchtime. 1 hour at a brisk pace. Not long now until dinner

OohMrDarcy · 21/10/2019 16:05

Kitchen closed on around 520 plus a cuppa later here

well done all

BigChocFrenzy · 21/10/2019 18:32

Well done, MrD
Not long to go, hummus, emcla

OP posts:
emcla · 21/10/2019 18:32

Kitchen closed here too. Cup of tea later with skimmed milk and a pint of water. Thinking of doing another fd tomorrow.

emcla · 21/10/2019 19:11

I have a weekend away planned. 3 buffet breakfasts and 3 dinners. I can have fish at dinner but it is a 3 course meal. Any one advise in advance ?

EssentialHummus · 21/10/2019 20:27

em I’d either try to precede it with a few good FDs, or choose to moderate either carbs or alcohol while you’re there if I were you.

emcla · 21/10/2019 20:45

Thanks essential. I don’t drink alcohol anyway. I also need to get my cholesterol checked in the next month or so. It previously has been high. My Gp told me to give up dairy. It will help to keep me in check while away and it’s also a good excuse not to over indulge. Got to be prepared.

BigChocFrenzy · 21/10/2019 20:51

Well done on your FD, emcla

My suggestions re your 3-day WE, to enjoy breakfast & dinner:

No snacking whatsoever between meals or after supper
keep drinking water, especially at mealtimes

Breakfast
This could be the main danger, because "all you can eat" is a great temptation for many of us to stuff ourselves.
So:
Don't have any sweet junk - no pastries, muffins, or cereal, no Nutella or jam etc - or you'll be hungrier later

instead, either
Have yoghurt, muesli & fruit
or
go savoury and ONE plate only
e..g. eggs, bacon, tomato, mushrooms and 1-2 pieces of toast, lightly buttered
Avoid the hash browns, avoid the sausage & beans - usually greasier / less filling than the other things

Lunch
Small salad with tuna or egg, no cheese, no croutons or mayo, just balsamico or vinaigrette.
Or a small sandwich or roll
No wine or pud

If you only want coffee instead, then no pastry or muffin, or it's better to have the salad
Go for a walk outside if you can, enjoy seeing any sights

Dinner
ONE plate only per course

Soup without bread, or green side salad
Fish or other protein is fine for main, with a moderate portion of starchy carbs, but eat any veg sides too, to fill you up. Avoid anything deep-fried or in pastry.
Have dessert, so you don't feel deprived, but only 1 portion
Have 1 glass wine only - drink plenty of water too

Enjoy Smile

OP posts:
BigChocFrenzy · 21/10/2019 20:53

Crosspost - well, no wine then Smile

OP posts:
BigChocFrenzy · 21/10/2019 20:58

Giving up dairy ? You'll be fine

I have always hated butter & any substitute, because they all upset my tum, but I enjoy bread & toast without, as an accompaniment

Cheese .... would be more difficult
Like any large rodent, I can eat a lot of cheese !

OP posts:
emcla · 21/10/2019 21:11

Bigchoc. Thank you. I don’t miss cheese. But love bread and butter. Hopefully after 5 2 ing and healthy eating my lipid profile will be satisfactory. Meant to report back to you as before on 5 2 I suffered from constipation. However you advised to eat my tdee which I did on the weekend and my metabolism is the best it’s been. Sorry if too much information and I feel I’m hogging this thread. But a big thank you to you all and especially bigchoc.

BigChocFrenzy · 21/10/2019 21:59

Everyone asks as often as they need, emcla
So don't hesitate Smile

Research suggests that replacing meat most days by different kinds of fish and beans / lentils could help your lipids.
Obviously plenty of non-starchy veg
and plenty of water, still or sparkling - cut out / cut down any fizzy sweet crap, whether diet or sugary.

If you find dry bread boring, then a little olive oil, good quality cold-pressed, or vinaigrette, can be a good substitute

OP posts:
emcla · 21/10/2019 22:05

Taking notes bigchoc. Thank you.

aberjenagain · 22/10/2019 07:59

Well done in the fast days emcla and mrd.

Checking in for FD1 of a b2b.

OohMrDarcy · 22/10/2019 08:04

Good luck today aber

Emcla I feel like I'm hogging most of the time Grin just post as often as you need / want, we are all keen to support each other!

NFD for me here, having a halloumi salad for lunch and a baked potato for dinner but not decided what to have with it yet! 🤔

BigChocFrenzy · 22/10/2019 08:14

Good luck on your b2b, aber and to any other Tuesday fasters

MrD I'm so used to Tuesday being one of your FDs that I had to blearily check what day it is on iPad Grin

OP posts:
emcla · 22/10/2019 08:15

Thanks mrd. I’m with you aber. Hopefully I make it through although I feel it’s going to be tougher than yesterday. Luckily a busy day ahead at work to keep me distracted.