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Fasting / 5:2 diet

Talk about intermittent fasting and 5:2, including what’s worked for others. Mumsnet hasn't checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. You may wish to speak to a medical professional before starting any diet.

5:2 Thread number 87: It's my body and I can if I want to

981 replies

BigChocFrenzy · 14/09/2019 17:38

Welcome to the continuing thread for those following 5:2 or other forms of IF (Intermittent Fasting) such as 4:3, ADF, or daily 16:8 Smile

The 5:2 diet was introduced by Michael Mosely on BBC Horizon in August 2012:

Basically it is 2 very low cal days ("fasts") per week - which need not be consecutive - and eat "normally" to maintain on the other 5 days.

For those who have dieted or maybe overeaten for years, eating "normally"
means roughly the number of calories your body needs to maintain - NOT reduce - its weight (see TDEE calculator below).

IMPORTANT
If you have had past diagnosed Eating Disorders or serious MH problems you should NOT do 5:2 or any other kind of fasting

ACRONYMS

16:8 is a different type of fasting, which can be combined with 5:2.
Daily zero-cal fast for 16 hours and eat within an 8 hour window. To lose weight, this needs a weekly calorie deficit as well

4:3 = fast on 3 non-consecutive days per week

ADF (Alternate-Day Fasting) = fast every other day

b2b (optional) back-to-back / consecutive fast days, each with an increased allowance of 650 calories instead of 500

BMI (Body Mass Index) healthy range is 18.5 - 24.9 for Caucasians. Upper limit may be 22 for some of Asian origin.

FD = single Fast Day: aim for 500 calories (600 for men or 25% TDEE whichever is higher) or 1000 cals for BF
No alcohol or junk on FDs
Even if you exercise strenuously, do NOT increase FD cals to allow for exercise

MFP = My Fitness Pal, a useful App or website to track food & drink calories

miniFD = MiniFD, 850-1000 calories, no alcohol or junk

NFD = Non-Fast Day, averages around TDEE

NSV / LSV = Non Scale Victory / LifeStyle (change) Victory, e.g. compliment, smaller waist, clothes size

SV = Scale Victory

TDEE = Total Daily Energy Expenditure, the average number of calories you burn in a day, is calculated (see calculators below) from your current weight, height, age, activity level.
Aim to average about this for NFDs.

WOE / WOL = Way Of Eating / Way Of Life. We say this instead of "diet", to emphasise that we must make a permanent change in how we eat, to mainitain our new healthy weight longterm.

HOW TO START

. Take initial measurements: weight, waist, hips
. Use TDEE calculator below if you need a rough guide to how much to eat on NFDs
. Choose any 2 days for FDs, non-consecutive is easier.
. Before each FD: plan, shop & calorie count ALL food & drink for the day

Useful Resources & Calculators

Calorie Counter: mfp
Rough Calories for NFD: Mosely TDEE Calc (exercisers: set activity level to one below what you think)
BMI: Calc
Ideal Weight & Body Frame Size: Calc Wt Frame
Body Fat: BFat Calc
Choose / Visualise Goal Weight:
3D BMI body types ripped to normal
Bod Vis Measurements & 3D rotate]]

Safe Alcohol Calc: Calc Units Cals

FD Recipes:
Mosely LowCarb , low carb Diet Doc
BBC Good Food 52 , BBC Good Food 500 cal meals ,
Good2Know , Foodie Under 200 Cals
Vegetarian ,

FD Ready Meals, Fast Food

Any Day:
Meal Planner

FAQs / Tips

  • WATER: Start each day with a glass of water; and drink plenty during the day.
  • HOT DRINKS: No limits on tea or coffee, but on FDs count any milk / sugar calories.
  • SLEEP: Try to get enough sleep, or it may slow weight loss.
  • EXERCISE: is healthy & can help weight loss - BUT only if you do NOT eat back less than you burn. Fasted training can burn more fat.
HIIT and resistance training both work well with 5:2/IF.
  • FDs: If possible, choose days when you are busy, but not preparing meals for others.
Concentrate on protein & veg; avoid sugar or fruit juice. e.g. Stir-fries, soups & stews. Ready meals are OK.
  • BFers: start with 1000-cal FDs, optionally reduce to 700 cals gradually.
You can return to 1000 if growth spurts or sleep-deprivation require more fuel.
  • NFDs: No rules, but to improve health, try to cut down on added sugar & junk food, keep alcohol within safe limits. A few treats per week are fine.
  • Do NOT fast: if you've ever had EDs, or if pregnant, under 21, over-stressed, fever, stomach bug, even a bad cold.
  • CHECK with your Doctor: if you have diabetes, any other endocrine condition, any serious past or present medical condition, or if taking ANY prescribed medication (fasting may affect absorption rate)

Scientific Evidence for Fasting & Health

BBC article on the original Horizon program

Telegraph comments on 5:2 and gives a brief overview by Dr Mosley, useful for newbies.

This InterviewPart1 and InterviewPart2 with leading ADF researcher Dr Varady explains why fasting helps you to lose weight AND improves some health markers.

Fasting boosts "autophagy" = recycling of old cells
Yoshinori Ohsumi won the 2016 Nobel prize for Medicine for research into autophagy
NOBEL Lecture “Autophagy – An Intracellular Recycling System”

Prof. R Taylor (Newcastle Uni) won the 2013 Diabetes UK Banting Prize for his Twin Cycle Hypothesis re the cause of type 2 diabetes: Twin Cycle Hypothesis T2
and showed a fasting diet could reverse T2

Dr Michelle Harvie (funded by cancer charities) showed possible benefits of intermittent fasting compared to standard daily calorie reduction in her trials (consecutive FDs) with women at high risk of breast cancer: ComparingDiets , EarlierResearch52

Dr Johnson showed intermittent fasting helped Asthma

HORMESIS & Why Intermittent Fasting Works: Mattson , BlackSwan and Hormesis

Molecular Mechanisms and Clinical Applications: J CellMetabolism
Recent research into the health benefits of fasting: e.g. by world-respected neuroscientist Dr MarkMattson (Mosely referred to his research) showed:

. Improved glucose regulation
. Loss of abdominal fat with maintenance of muscle mass
. Reduced blood pressure and heart rate
. Improved learning and memory and motor function
. Protection of neurons in the brain against dysfunction and degeneration in animal models of Alzheimer’s disease, Parkinson’s disease, stroke and Huntington’s disease.

Brain metabolism in health, aging, andneurodegeneration :
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

He compared 5:2 to ordinary daily diets on overweight women with family history of breast cancer.
Fasting group lost more belly fat, retained more muscle & had slightly better blood sugar regulation.

More of his research is in HealthyAging , Health , AvoidParkinsonsDisease

His article in J Aging Mech Disease 2015 explains the health benefits of intermittent fasting in great scientific detail.

Why intermittent fasting and stopping snacking can lower your risk of serious diseases:
Meal frequency and timing in health and disease

Fasting can help maintain brain health during aging:
emboj.embopress.org/content/36/11/1474
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

This interview with leading researchers into fasting in combination with standard cancer treatment: ScientificDiscussion MoselyMattsonLongo and a LongoInterview

NY Times Fasting Overview

Research by other US and European scientists in this DailyTelegraph Article about the medicinal uses of fasting, for many serious conditions & diseases.

Recent trials with Type 2 diabetics and those at risk of having it used a form of daily fasting - skipping supper.
Their conclusions: eating 1-2 meals per day is better than several small meals for losing weight and controlling insulin levels, see Type2Paper

OP posts:
Thread gallery
8
Fillybuster · 18/10/2019 10:09

Well done emcla - sounds like you’re properly motivated and that’s a fab result!

Aber, glad your head is back in the game Grin It’s so frustrating when we hit those plateaus but you know that eventually it will all start properly dropping again. And in the meantime at least all the movement is in the right direction - so definitely still winning!!!

MrD, have a good day Smile Love the newly-committed-to-vegetables-halo!!

Great result on the jeans NSV (maybe even an SV??) Hummus. Body shape & clothes fit can be so much more of an effective indicator than scales, but glad to hear you finally got the batteries! Any more parties this weekend or will you get some gardening time?

Somewhat in shock but need to share that the scales said 9.10.2 this morning, so that’s twice at 9.10 in 3 days!! I thought yesterday’s FD was a bit of a write off but when I counted up what I’d actually eaten for lunch (although a small amount of NFD dessert did feature) and dinner (homemade minestrone soup fully worked out on MFP at 71 cals per serving with nothing else at all) I think I came in around 700 in total. Plus my regular killer Thursday boxercise class Grin

Feeling a bit shocked to be honest and pretty motivated not to blow it all over the weekend.

My first target (9.9) now feels unexpectedly and suddenly in view, as does 9.7 (long term target). Starting to allow myself to even think about 9.5 (where I was for ages on maintenance until 4 years ago) as an even longer term goal.

But don’t want to get carried away. Each lb represents a huge amount of effort and I’m now aware how easily it can creep back up after just a few wobbly days.

Good luck to all the Friday fasters!

OohMrDarcy · 18/10/2019 10:17

emcla - congrats on that fab SV - 3lb definitely not to be sniffed at!

Filly - can tell you are over the moon to hit 9.10 again - well done! You must really be finding your balance on those NFDs now!

I have a sneaking NSV of my own today - in the summer I bought some tops in a 16... one was on the wrong hanger and was actually a 12..... guess what I'm wearing today! Grin Grin Grin I mean, Its not loose enough that I'd wear it without a hoodie at the moment, but it also isn't stretched or badly fitting, just want the tum to go down a little more! Bearing in mind I started the year in a 20 and right now I'm wearing a size 12 top!!!! Over the freaking moon right now

EssentialHummus · 18/10/2019 10:44

mrd 🥳🥳🥳 fab news!

BigChocFrenzy · 18/10/2019 10:57

Congratulation on your SVs, emcla, filly, aber

and on your fab size 12 NSV, MrD
Good luck with your FD
and definitely a Halo for your vegetable habit - that'll be part of what gave you the NSV

OP posts:
emcla · 18/10/2019 12:27

I understand your joy mrd. Very well done. Go you !

aberjenagain · 18/10/2019 13:08

Oh wow, 3 lb is fab emcla, congrats!

Awesome nsv mrd, hurrah!

Congrats to you too filly - so close to first target, eek!

ListeningQuietly · 18/10/2019 13:35

Bigchoc
Rather a fail on the booze - I blame the politicians
but am being more mindful knowing you are watching me Grin

OohMrDarcy · 18/10/2019 16:50

Kitchen closed on 443 here today. Going to have a cup of tea when the kids go off to their dads and then I am done.

Fillybuster · 18/10/2019 16:55

Wow, MrD, that’s fantastic!!!! Star Glitterball What an amazing way to go into the weekend!

BigChocFrenzy · 18/10/2019 18:19

Well done on your FD, MrD
Enjoy your peaceful weekend and revel in your new kitchen and bathroom

< positions armed drone with alcohol sniffers over listening 🛰 >

OP posts:
emcla · 18/10/2019 18:48

Well done on completing your fd mrd.
I didn’t manage a mini fd today but came in way under target so I am happy with that.

I am wondering if I drop a few pounds do I recalculate my tdee or should I leave it ? Just had a thought about that.

OohMrDarcy · 18/10/2019 18:59

I used to calculate every half stone or so emcla, I'm rubbish and cant remember how much you have to lose but you may find that useful. Now I generally aim for goal TDEE Which works for me

emcla · 18/10/2019 19:06

That’s a good idea mrd. I calculated my tdee based on current weight etc. Off I go...later 👋

BigChocFrenzy · 18/10/2019 23:26

A sub-TDEE Friday is good, emcla

For those who like to count calories - or have to because of a strict time limit -
I recommend recalculating after every stone lost

If anyone has a lot to lose, but wants to speed up the loss,
then like MrD they can optionally aim for TDEE of goal weight on 1 or more NFDs
This also helps get used to how you need to eat at maintenance

However, I recommend eating up to full TDEE at least one day per week, to keep metabolism revved up and to let your body relax.
It makes things more sustainable too.

OP posts:
OohMrDarcy · 19/10/2019 07:20

Morning all

Weigh day has me at 14st 0.6lb today! A loss of 1.4lb and brings my total lost to 3st 11.8lb!
Feels good to be losing reasonably consistently again after that stoppage a while back.

Agree with bigchoc emcla - I only use goal TDEE because it seems plenty to me now, I do occasionally have more for eg if we are eating out or something. And if I feel hungrier I do go over.

Anyone else weighing in this morning?

emcla · 19/10/2019 08:00

Well done mrd. That’s great !

Thanks bigchoc and mrd for helping me understand the tdee. That makes sense.

Good luck to any Saturday fasters out there

aberjenagain · 19/10/2019 08:17

Fantastic, well done mrd!

BigChocFrenzy · 19/10/2019 09:39

Congratulations on your SV, MrD
Fab loss and you will be soon be smashing more milestones - in the 13 stone somethings

OP posts:
OohMrDarcy · 19/10/2019 10:03

Thanks all

EVERYONE can suddenly see the progress too Grin

BigChocFrenzy · 19/10/2019 11:55

That's a great compliments NSV too, MrD
Very motivating for you - although you are already v motivated & positive

OP posts:
Arifa97 · 20/10/2019 11:35

Room for another

Hey guys,

I’m new to the 5: 2 diet and I’m hoping this forum will keep me motivated and accountable.

I’ve gained weight since my half-marathon (1/09/19) taking me from 8st 10 to 9st 3lbs. It may not seem much but that’s a lot for me. Also 7lb weight gain from September to today is quite a lot!
I’ve become really sedentary due to a knee injury so couldn’t. Even walking around and climbing stairs and driving was painful. And all these birthdays in September and October haven’t helped either.

My knee no longer hurts which is great because I can start running and do what I love! But what hurts is I’ve gained weight and treated my body like crap since my half-marathon, this has deffo affected my health and fitness.

OohMrDarcy · 20/10/2019 12:04

Hey Arifa,

Always room for more on these threads. Have a read through the OP as it's got lots of getting started tips

EssentialHummus · 20/10/2019 13:03

Welcome arifa!

emcla · 20/10/2019 14:33

Welcome arifa. I’m planning a fd for tomorrow. Anyone joining me ?

OohMrDarcy · 20/10/2019 16:09

I'm in tomorrow emcla