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Fasting / 5:2 diet

Talk about intermittent fasting and 5:2, including what’s worked for others. Mumsnet hasn't checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. You may wish to speak to a medical professional before starting any diet.

5:2 Thread number 87: It's my body and I can if I want to

981 replies

BigChocFrenzy · 14/09/2019 17:38

Welcome to the continuing thread for those following 5:2 or other forms of IF (Intermittent Fasting) such as 4:3, ADF, or daily 16:8 Smile

The 5:2 diet was introduced by Michael Mosely on BBC Horizon in August 2012:

Basically it is 2 very low cal days ("fasts") per week - which need not be consecutive - and eat "normally" to maintain on the other 5 days.

For those who have dieted or maybe overeaten for years, eating "normally"
means roughly the number of calories your body needs to maintain - NOT reduce - its weight (see TDEE calculator below).

IMPORTANT
If you have had past diagnosed Eating Disorders or serious MH problems you should NOT do 5:2 or any other kind of fasting

ACRONYMS

16:8 is a different type of fasting, which can be combined with 5:2.
Daily zero-cal fast for 16 hours and eat within an 8 hour window. To lose weight, this needs a weekly calorie deficit as well

4:3 = fast on 3 non-consecutive days per week

ADF (Alternate-Day Fasting) = fast every other day

b2b (optional) back-to-back / consecutive fast days, each with an increased allowance of 650 calories instead of 500

BMI (Body Mass Index) healthy range is 18.5 - 24.9 for Caucasians. Upper limit may be 22 for some of Asian origin.

FD = single Fast Day: aim for 500 calories (600 for men or 25% TDEE whichever is higher) or 1000 cals for BF
No alcohol or junk on FDs
Even if you exercise strenuously, do NOT increase FD cals to allow for exercise

MFP = My Fitness Pal, a useful App or website to track food & drink calories

miniFD = MiniFD, 850-1000 calories, no alcohol or junk

NFD = Non-Fast Day, averages around TDEE

NSV / LSV = Non Scale Victory / LifeStyle (change) Victory, e.g. compliment, smaller waist, clothes size

SV = Scale Victory

TDEE = Total Daily Energy Expenditure, the average number of calories you burn in a day, is calculated (see calculators below) from your current weight, height, age, activity level.
Aim to average about this for NFDs.

WOE / WOL = Way Of Eating / Way Of Life. We say this instead of "diet", to emphasise that we must make a permanent change in how we eat, to mainitain our new healthy weight longterm.

HOW TO START

. Take initial measurements: weight, waist, hips
. Use TDEE calculator below if you need a rough guide to how much to eat on NFDs
. Choose any 2 days for FDs, non-consecutive is easier.
. Before each FD: plan, shop & calorie count ALL food & drink for the day

Useful Resources & Calculators

Calorie Counter: mfp
Rough Calories for NFD: Mosely TDEE Calc (exercisers: set activity level to one below what you think)
BMI: Calc
Ideal Weight & Body Frame Size: Calc Wt Frame
Body Fat: BFat Calc
Choose / Visualise Goal Weight:
3D BMI body types ripped to normal
Bod Vis Measurements & 3D rotate]]

Safe Alcohol Calc: Calc Units Cals

FD Recipes:
Mosely LowCarb , low carb Diet Doc
BBC Good Food 52 , BBC Good Food 500 cal meals ,
Good2Know , Foodie Under 200 Cals
Vegetarian ,

FD Ready Meals, Fast Food

Any Day:
Meal Planner

FAQs / Tips

  • WATER: Start each day with a glass of water; and drink plenty during the day.
  • HOT DRINKS: No limits on tea or coffee, but on FDs count any milk / sugar calories.
  • SLEEP: Try to get enough sleep, or it may slow weight loss.
  • EXERCISE: is healthy & can help weight loss - BUT only if you do NOT eat back less than you burn. Fasted training can burn more fat.
HIIT and resistance training both work well with 5:2/IF.
  • FDs: If possible, choose days when you are busy, but not preparing meals for others.
Concentrate on protein & veg; avoid sugar or fruit juice. e.g. Stir-fries, soups & stews. Ready meals are OK.
  • BFers: start with 1000-cal FDs, optionally reduce to 700 cals gradually.
You can return to 1000 if growth spurts or sleep-deprivation require more fuel.
  • NFDs: No rules, but to improve health, try to cut down on added sugar & junk food, keep alcohol within safe limits. A few treats per week are fine.
  • Do NOT fast: if you've ever had EDs, or if pregnant, under 21, over-stressed, fever, stomach bug, even a bad cold.
  • CHECK with your Doctor: if you have diabetes, any other endocrine condition, any serious past or present medical condition, or if taking ANY prescribed medication (fasting may affect absorption rate)

Scientific Evidence for Fasting & Health

BBC article on the original Horizon program

Telegraph comments on 5:2 and gives a brief overview by Dr Mosley, useful for newbies.

This InterviewPart1 and InterviewPart2 with leading ADF researcher Dr Varady explains why fasting helps you to lose weight AND improves some health markers.

Fasting boosts "autophagy" = recycling of old cells
Yoshinori Ohsumi won the 2016 Nobel prize for Medicine for research into autophagy
NOBEL Lecture “Autophagy – An Intracellular Recycling System”

Prof. R Taylor (Newcastle Uni) won the 2013 Diabetes UK Banting Prize for his Twin Cycle Hypothesis re the cause of type 2 diabetes: Twin Cycle Hypothesis T2
and showed a fasting diet could reverse T2

Dr Michelle Harvie (funded by cancer charities) showed possible benefits of intermittent fasting compared to standard daily calorie reduction in her trials (consecutive FDs) with women at high risk of breast cancer: ComparingDiets , EarlierResearch52

Dr Johnson showed intermittent fasting helped Asthma

HORMESIS & Why Intermittent Fasting Works: Mattson , BlackSwan and Hormesis

Molecular Mechanisms and Clinical Applications: J CellMetabolism
Recent research into the health benefits of fasting: e.g. by world-respected neuroscientist Dr MarkMattson (Mosely referred to his research) showed:

. Improved glucose regulation
. Loss of abdominal fat with maintenance of muscle mass
. Reduced blood pressure and heart rate
. Improved learning and memory and motor function
. Protection of neurons in the brain against dysfunction and degeneration in animal models of Alzheimer’s disease, Parkinson’s disease, stroke and Huntington’s disease.

Brain metabolism in health, aging, andneurodegeneration :
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

He compared 5:2 to ordinary daily diets on overweight women with family history of breast cancer.
Fasting group lost more belly fat, retained more muscle & had slightly better blood sugar regulation.

More of his research is in HealthyAging , Health , AvoidParkinsonsDisease

His article in J Aging Mech Disease 2015 explains the health benefits of intermittent fasting in great scientific detail.

Why intermittent fasting and stopping snacking can lower your risk of serious diseases:
Meal frequency and timing in health and disease

Fasting can help maintain brain health during aging:
emboj.embopress.org/content/36/11/1474
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

This interview with leading researchers into fasting in combination with standard cancer treatment: ScientificDiscussion MoselyMattsonLongo and a LongoInterview

NY Times Fasting Overview

Research by other US and European scientists in this DailyTelegraph Article about the medicinal uses of fasting, for many serious conditions & diseases.

Recent trials with Type 2 diabetics and those at risk of having it used a form of daily fasting - skipping supper.
Their conclusions: eating 1-2 meals per day is better than several small meals for losing weight and controlling insulin levels, see Type2Paper

OP posts:
Thread gallery
8
Fillybuster · 16/10/2019 20:35

A week behind on the thread - eek!

Sorry: Yom Kippur was ok-ish, to be honest looking after 11 yo DC2 who was fasting for the first time rather took my mind off things - plus there was no phone/internet etc (a little more observant than Hummus!) so couldn’t update! Although I went a little large on carbs at the end, still didn’t do too badly, probably because you simply can’t eat much after that long without filling up very quickly Smile The challenge for me was that we rolled almost immediately into the next set of holidays, which is a sort of harvest festival which lasts for 8 days and involves eating all our meals in an intentionally-leaky, over-decorated tent in the garden....so lots of guests to feed, and lots of warm, carb-heavy food to counterbalance the cold weather and rain drops!!

I did manage to squeeze in both a fast and a double gym class yesterday and was completely gobsmacked to see the scales hit 9.10 this morning ShockGrin. Obviously it won’t last (heck, pretzels, wine & a double Kit Kat have all featured today Blush) but it’s a good feeling to know that I’m still slowly making progress.
For context: I returned to this WoE the day I hit 10.5, but I had been sitting uncomfortably & in denial at or around 10.3 for quite a while. So I’ve lost somewhere between 7-9lbs over the past 3 months, despite taking 3 weeks off over the summer and numerous (oh so many!) blips ShockShockShock

Right, off to catch up on the thread. Sorry for such a selfish post! Hope everyone is keeping well x

OohMrDarcy · 16/10/2019 21:26

Congrats on the SV filly, as well as surviving without phone / internet Wink

EssentialHummus · 16/10/2019 21:36

Well done filly!

BigChocFrenzy · 16/10/2019 22:42

Welcome back, listening and good luck

Yep, I'll tell you what you already know: 😂
NHS alcohol guidelines for your waistline and your health !
And same for your OH too

Well done on your FDs, MrD, aber

Your moka pot sounds a treasure, aber
Are your lovely new kitchen & bathroom completely finished now, MrD ?

Congratulations on your SV, filly
It's good to hear your adventures Smile

OP posts:
aberjenagain · 17/10/2019 07:48

Weighed this morning and only 0.4 lb down since 2 weeks ago Angry Didn’t weigh last week because of totm. Oh well, will weigh again tomorrow in case I get a result I like better Grin and keep on keeping on.

Wishing better weigh-ins and successful fast days for everyone else today!

Congrats on your SV filly, and surviving the feasting Smile

EssentialHummus · 17/10/2019 08:02

It happens aber - very frustrating though!

Mini for me today, as we've got family visiting over the weekend and I expect a lot of meals out etc. Good luck to Thursday fasters.

emcla · 17/10/2019 08:24

I’m fasting today. Anyone else on board ? If so , good luck.

OohMrDarcy · 17/10/2019 09:03

congrats on the SV aber - it may be a little one, but it is as mighty as the others - always creeping in the right direction!

Bigchoc - all bar the final bits - kickboards in the kitchen (builder ill so not been back yet to sort) and ceiling painting in bathroom - waiting for landlady to come back from holiday to sort - so nothing intrusive left really.

good luck to todays fasters Hummus and Emcla

Fillybuster · 17/10/2019 13:44

Nearly caught up...

Well done on your SV Mr D - amazing! How’s the new bathroom?

Aber, stick with it. It’s also quite normal to plateau for a while (I was stuck at around 10 for aaaaages)
so don’t lose faith. Are you eating enough fibre?

I was planning a FD today but was invited out for quite a special once -a-year lunch and didnt want to miss it. Im not sure I managed perfect choices but went high protein, low carb (basically quite a lot of salt beef and chicken!) and only a fairly controlled quantity of dessert. soup and boxercise tonight and a MFD tomorrow.

I’m keen to see that 9.10 again but I know it might take a week or two to get back there given we’ve got a whole bunch of guests over this weekend again (unsurprisingly was 1.5lbs up this morning after a v late pasta dinner due to family stuff getting in the way of eating at a healthy time). Hmmmm....

How are you getting on Hummus? Are you at maintenance now? And have you bought new batteries yet??

Good luck to all the Thursday fasters Smile

EssentialHummus · 17/10/2019 13:58

That lunch sounds yummy filly.

And have you bought new batteries yet??

Yes! Took forever, but yes. I still somewhere from 0.5 to 1kg above my goal weight, but am down a jeans size to where I want to be and generally feeling nearly there. I actually think I will continue with 2 FDs (with higher calorie allowances) once I hit maintenance, because otherwise I battle with snacking.

OohMrDarcy · 17/10/2019 14:04

New bathroom is lush filly - and so relaxing. Shower is fab too.

Hummus - I'm planning on continuing with 2 x FD in maintenance too - just eating back cals on NFDs - means I get a slightly higher allowance day to day so should be easier to maintain... she says Grin

BigChocFrenzy · 17/10/2019 15:27

Your SV is at least in the right direction, aber

If you've already lost a fair bit, then you may have reached a plateau,
which is often a weight at which you've been before for a long time

Just stay focused, stay patient and you'll break the plateau

Well done on your jeans NSV, Hummus
That's improved body composition: bodyfat reduced and muscle increased - which is excellent for both shape & health
The last kg can take a long time, now that you are well within healthy BMI

Not long to go on your FD / miniFD, emcla, Hummus

re maintenance, Hummus, MrD:
Keeping the 2 FDs is a popular system, since at maintenance you can eat back the FD deficit,
i.e. regularly enjoy more than your TDEE on NFDs
as well as retaining the fasting benefits

You can get back to 9.10 filly and then to goal;
you just need a few weeks without too many social eating events

OP posts:
ListeningQuietly · 17/10/2019 19:24

Fasted today (by accident) but have planned a big supper to warm up.

FWIW I'm still 4kg above ideal weight but within 1kg of steady maintenance weight

  • where I have been for the last nearly 7 years using the principles of 5:2
OohMrDarcy · 17/10/2019 19:49

I love an accidental FD listening, get to feel all virtuous after Grin

Lovely comfort food for dinner here in the torrential rain! Look away big choc! Sausage , mash veg and gravy all well within TDEE

Bigchoc that is exactly my reasoning for continuing the FDs once I reach maintenance! I figure it will make it easier to stay there Grin

Fasting again tomorrow here, anyone joining me on a Friday FD to finish the week strong?

ListeningQuietly · 17/10/2019 20:56

Tonight we had a Dordogne meal ...
baked sausages
aligote (steamed potato with STRONG cheese mashed into it)
and pounti (a vegetable loaf of chard and onions held together with egg and a layer of redcurrant jelly through the middle all baked)
Lush
no idea what calories but now warm and stuffed

Fillybuster · 17/10/2019 21:23

Listening, that sounds amazing!! I’m sure it’s not remotely FD friendly but could you possible share the pounti recipe please? Mmmm....

BigChocFrenzy · 17/10/2019 21:27

No reason to look away, MrD
Normal comfort food, not junk
If you managed to add some veg too, it'd be ace
Creamed spinach or mushy peas or tomato passata usually go well with comfort food like that

That's excellent maintaining, listening

Now - since you returned specifically to be nagged Wink - how are the healthy habits going ?

filly The pounti recipe from listening sounds a healthy FD main meal
on NFDs, you could add the cheesy spuds

OP posts:
ListeningQuietly · 17/10/2019 21:29

filly
The recipe was based on this
www.travelfranceonline.com/pounti-traditional-recipe-from-cantal/
but with more veg, no meat and redcurrant jelly rather than prunes
it served like a meatloaf cooked in a bread tin
and used up LOADS of my rainbow chard :-)

ListeningQuietly · 17/10/2019 21:30

I reckon if you really ramped up the veg and allowed 2 eggs per person and used dried fruit you could bring it in at about 500 a portion

emcla · 17/10/2019 21:49

Hi everyone. I had a god day. Did my almost 7k walk / run in the hour. Had an early dinner last night 1730 and then didn’t eat until 1915 tonight. I got stuck in traffic , was planning on an earlier meal. I had a spoon of marmite in the morning and a few teas and some coffee with skimmed milk. Light meal. Not hungry. Thinking of a mini fd tomorrow. Definitely aiming for under my tdee. I feel remarkably good.

Any fasters Tomorrow?

emcla · 17/10/2019 21:58

Apologies for the typo good not god, predictive texting 🙄

BigChocFrenzy · 17/10/2019 22:44

emcla Well done on an excellent day all round
You sound fully in the fasting swing and v positive

OP posts:
aberjenagain · 18/10/2019 07:41

Thanks filly, Hummus, mrd and bcf, and you are all right of course - scales still heading in the right direction, and I was semi-expecting a slow down around 10 st 7 as I've hovered around this weight a lot in the past. Another 0.2 lb off this morning (!!!)

Listening that meals sounds AMAZING.

Well done on your FD emcla

OohMrDarcy · 18/10/2019 07:50

Morning all

Checking in for my Friday FD, and starting the weekend strong.

Had 4 veg with the dinner bigchoc - we always have it now Halo

That meal sounds yummy listening

Well done on yesterdays FD emcla

Aber, congrats on another bit creeping off and glas you are feeling better about it slowing down

emcla · 18/10/2019 09:29

Thanks all. 3 lb down this morning. Delighted. Good luck to all Friday fasters.

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