Meet the Other Phone. Protection built in.

Meet the Other Phone.
Protection built in.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Fasting / 5:2 diet

Talk about intermittent fasting and 5:2, including what’s worked for others. Mumsnet hasn't checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. You may wish to speak to a medical professional before starting any diet.

5:2 Thread number 87: It's my body and I can if I want to

981 replies

BigChocFrenzy · 14/09/2019 17:38

Welcome to the continuing thread for those following 5:2 or other forms of IF (Intermittent Fasting) such as 4:3, ADF, or daily 16:8 Smile

The 5:2 diet was introduced by Michael Mosely on BBC Horizon in August 2012:

Basically it is 2 very low cal days ("fasts") per week - which need not be consecutive - and eat "normally" to maintain on the other 5 days.

For those who have dieted or maybe overeaten for years, eating "normally"
means roughly the number of calories your body needs to maintain - NOT reduce - its weight (see TDEE calculator below).

IMPORTANT
If you have had past diagnosed Eating Disorders or serious MH problems you should NOT do 5:2 or any other kind of fasting

ACRONYMS

16:8 is a different type of fasting, which can be combined with 5:2.
Daily zero-cal fast for 16 hours and eat within an 8 hour window. To lose weight, this needs a weekly calorie deficit as well

4:3 = fast on 3 non-consecutive days per week

ADF (Alternate-Day Fasting) = fast every other day

b2b (optional) back-to-back / consecutive fast days, each with an increased allowance of 650 calories instead of 500

BMI (Body Mass Index) healthy range is 18.5 - 24.9 for Caucasians. Upper limit may be 22 for some of Asian origin.

FD = single Fast Day: aim for 500 calories (600 for men or 25% TDEE whichever is higher) or 1000 cals for BF
No alcohol or junk on FDs
Even if you exercise strenuously, do NOT increase FD cals to allow for exercise

MFP = My Fitness Pal, a useful App or website to track food & drink calories

miniFD = MiniFD, 850-1000 calories, no alcohol or junk

NFD = Non-Fast Day, averages around TDEE

NSV / LSV = Non Scale Victory / LifeStyle (change) Victory, e.g. compliment, smaller waist, clothes size

SV = Scale Victory

TDEE = Total Daily Energy Expenditure, the average number of calories you burn in a day, is calculated (see calculators below) from your current weight, height, age, activity level.
Aim to average about this for NFDs.

WOE / WOL = Way Of Eating / Way Of Life. We say this instead of "diet", to emphasise that we must make a permanent change in how we eat, to mainitain our new healthy weight longterm.

HOW TO START

. Take initial measurements: weight, waist, hips
. Use TDEE calculator below if you need a rough guide to how much to eat on NFDs
. Choose any 2 days for FDs, non-consecutive is easier.
. Before each FD: plan, shop & calorie count ALL food & drink for the day

Useful Resources & Calculators

Calorie Counter: mfp
Rough Calories for NFD: Mosely TDEE Calc (exercisers: set activity level to one below what you think)
BMI: Calc
Ideal Weight & Body Frame Size: Calc Wt Frame
Body Fat: BFat Calc
Choose / Visualise Goal Weight:
3D BMI body types ripped to normal
Bod Vis Measurements & 3D rotate]]

Safe Alcohol Calc: Calc Units Cals

FD Recipes:
Mosely LowCarb , low carb Diet Doc
BBC Good Food 52 , BBC Good Food 500 cal meals ,
Good2Know , Foodie Under 200 Cals
Vegetarian ,

FD Ready Meals, Fast Food

Any Day:
Meal Planner

FAQs / Tips

  • WATER: Start each day with a glass of water; and drink plenty during the day.
  • HOT DRINKS: No limits on tea or coffee, but on FDs count any milk / sugar calories.
  • SLEEP: Try to get enough sleep, or it may slow weight loss.
  • EXERCISE: is healthy & can help weight loss - BUT only if you do NOT eat back less than you burn. Fasted training can burn more fat.
HIIT and resistance training both work well with 5:2/IF.
  • FDs: If possible, choose days when you are busy, but not preparing meals for others.
Concentrate on protein & veg; avoid sugar or fruit juice. e.g. Stir-fries, soups & stews. Ready meals are OK.
  • BFers: start with 1000-cal FDs, optionally reduce to 700 cals gradually.
You can return to 1000 if growth spurts or sleep-deprivation require more fuel.
  • NFDs: No rules, but to improve health, try to cut down on added sugar & junk food, keep alcohol within safe limits. A few treats per week are fine.
  • Do NOT fast: if you've ever had EDs, or if pregnant, under 21, over-stressed, fever, stomach bug, even a bad cold.
  • CHECK with your Doctor: if you have diabetes, any other endocrine condition, any serious past or present medical condition, or if taking ANY prescribed medication (fasting may affect absorption rate)

Scientific Evidence for Fasting & Health

BBC article on the original Horizon program

Telegraph comments on 5:2 and gives a brief overview by Dr Mosley, useful for newbies.

This InterviewPart1 and InterviewPart2 with leading ADF researcher Dr Varady explains why fasting helps you to lose weight AND improves some health markers.

Fasting boosts "autophagy" = recycling of old cells
Yoshinori Ohsumi won the 2016 Nobel prize for Medicine for research into autophagy
NOBEL Lecture “Autophagy – An Intracellular Recycling System”

Prof. R Taylor (Newcastle Uni) won the 2013 Diabetes UK Banting Prize for his Twin Cycle Hypothesis re the cause of type 2 diabetes: Twin Cycle Hypothesis T2
and showed a fasting diet could reverse T2

Dr Michelle Harvie (funded by cancer charities) showed possible benefits of intermittent fasting compared to standard daily calorie reduction in her trials (consecutive FDs) with women at high risk of breast cancer: ComparingDiets , EarlierResearch52

Dr Johnson showed intermittent fasting helped Asthma

HORMESIS & Why Intermittent Fasting Works: Mattson , BlackSwan and Hormesis

Molecular Mechanisms and Clinical Applications: J CellMetabolism
Recent research into the health benefits of fasting: e.g. by world-respected neuroscientist Dr MarkMattson (Mosely referred to his research) showed:

. Improved glucose regulation
. Loss of abdominal fat with maintenance of muscle mass
. Reduced blood pressure and heart rate
. Improved learning and memory and motor function
. Protection of neurons in the brain against dysfunction and degeneration in animal models of Alzheimer’s disease, Parkinson’s disease, stroke and Huntington’s disease.

Brain metabolism in health, aging, andneurodegeneration :
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

He compared 5:2 to ordinary daily diets on overweight women with family history of breast cancer.
Fasting group lost more belly fat, retained more muscle & had slightly better blood sugar regulation.

More of his research is in HealthyAging , Health , AvoidParkinsonsDisease

His article in J Aging Mech Disease 2015 explains the health benefits of intermittent fasting in great scientific detail.

Why intermittent fasting and stopping snacking can lower your risk of serious diseases:
Meal frequency and timing in health and disease

Fasting can help maintain brain health during aging:
emboj.embopress.org/content/36/11/1474
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

This interview with leading researchers into fasting in combination with standard cancer treatment: ScientificDiscussion MoselyMattsonLongo and a LongoInterview

NY Times Fasting Overview

Research by other US and European scientists in this DailyTelegraph Article about the medicinal uses of fasting, for many serious conditions & diseases.

Recent trials with Type 2 diabetics and those at risk of having it used a form of daily fasting - skipping supper.
Their conclusions: eating 1-2 meals per day is better than several small meals for losing weight and controlling insulin levels, see Type2Paper

OP posts:
Thread gallery
8
emcla · 15/10/2019 09:43

Hi bigchoc. Thank you for you response. So helpful as always. I did map last summer for a few weeks so have a pretty good idea of calories. I will do it again though. I had breakfast one morning only. I had quite a bit of fruit on Sunday and a small amount of chocolate on sat. I will have to stop that otherwise I have adhered to the plan. I use skimmed milk or low fat on the rare occasion that I’m at work and there’s no skimmed available. I don’t drink alcohol or fizzy drinks except the odd sparkling water. I remember being at a buffet with a friend I hadn’t met in a couple of years and we got our food at the same time. Her portions were tiny and she had lost a lot of weight. Maybe I’m overdoing it with the healthy stuff such as fruit porridge brown rice brown pasta etc. My husband has lost at least half a stone by reducing carbs It’s not fair !

OohMrDarcy · 15/10/2019 09:44

Morning all

Been away for work yesterday and today... so usual Tuesday fast moving to Wednesday

good luck to anyone fasting today

BigChocFrenzy · 15/10/2019 11:20

Good luck, MrD

emcla I doubt if a lot of fruit and a little choc one day are causing a roadblock

Men usually lose more quickly & easily than their female OH - biology sucks again, GRRRAH

More likely is the total cals and / or large portions of healthy carbs, like that brown rice
Especially if you find it more difficult to lose this time round, you may have developed insulin resistance

If this is the issue, then the total portion of starchy carbs in a meal should be within about 100g cooked weight OR 1-2 slices bread
If you "double carb" in a meal, then have 50g+50g

Also, mfp may highlight some things you overlooked - many folk have had a shock like this:

e.g. a hidden calorie bomb that you thought OK because it's heathy, e.g. portion sizes of hummus, oily dressing
or a packet of something may have 2.5 portions ( 🤦🏻‍♀️ how useless !) not 1 portion as you could reasonable assume

OP posts:
emcla · 15/10/2019 11:38

Sorry for typos. Mfp not map 🙄

emcla · 15/10/2019 15:54

Thanks bigchoc. I put everything into mfp today. Shocking. Ok. Onwards I go. I would recommend mfp to everyone. I went for a 6.5 k walk / run at lunch Did it in 57 mins.

BigChocFrenzy · 15/10/2019 16:03

oops, are you another who had an mfp shock, emcla ?
Don't worry, you are in a LOT of good company Wink
it's often a reality check and a lightbulb moment

Well done on the lunchtime jog

OP posts:
emcla · 15/10/2019 16:45

And I thought that I had a good idea after using mfp last summer. How quickly I forgot. Whoops. 🤭

Laniakea · 15/10/2019 18:11

did a mini today (800 calories) - just had dinner - veg stew & a potato - I also had some banana & a two Shock chocolate biscuits ... very unusual for me but I was seriously craving carbs! Pretty much confined to the sofa - I've managed about 500 steps Sad

FD again tomorrow then the first of the foodie things on Thursday, planning to fast on Friday & then meal number two on Saturday. I won't weigh again for a few weeks!

(after that I have dinner party on the 31st, a birthday meal on the 9th & then we're going on holiday on the 11th ... feel a bit anxious about all the eating but now until the new year is a really busy time for us so I'll have to find a way to manage)

BigChocFrenzy · 15/10/2019 18:15

Lania I recommend a weekly weigh-in, so that things don't get out of hand before you are fit again

OP posts:
emcla · 15/10/2019 18:51

I got my lunch ready for tomorrow. I’m working so bring it with me. It’s minuscule compared to what I usually have. It’s one slice turkey breast , lettuce, cherry toms and a small slither or onion and 2 thin strips of red pepper. One question. On mfp do you enter your exercise? It recalculated my calories based on my lunchtime exercise.

OohMrDarcy · 15/10/2019 19:09

Evening all

Back from my work trip - made some pretty good choices and didn't indulge in any booze as just didn't fancy it.

FD is ready to go for tomorrow with slow cooker chilli for dinner. The DC will have theirs with rice and a sprinkle of cheese, I'll have it on it's own.

emcla · 15/10/2019 19:19

Well done mrd

aberjenagain · 15/10/2019 19:52

Well done on your minis lania and tea, and congrats on surviving the work trip mrd!

FD done here on 480, and feeling good about b2b tomorrow Smile

BigChocFrenzy · 15/10/2019 21:09

Well done on your FD, aber

That's very sensible on your business trip, MrD

emcla Best to keep gadgets as fun & motivation, not to calculate exercise, as they can overestimate significantly.

On FDs:
No allowance for exercise

On NFDs:
It is already included in the TDEE calc - so do not add exercise cals from a gadget to this or you're counting double

Best to use Mosely's TDEE Calc (not the TDEE calc in mfp or elsewhere)
He says that exercisers should calculate with one activity level lower than they think they do.

OP posts:
BigChocFrenzy · 15/10/2019 21:10

So, emcla Best not to mention exercise to mfp - just use it to calculate your intake

OP posts:
emcla · 15/10/2019 22:18

Thanks bigchoc. I understand now. Night all.

OohMrDarcy · 16/10/2019 07:24

Morning all checking in for my promised FD. Anyone else with me?

BigChocFrenzy · 16/10/2019 08:33

Good luck, MrD

OP posts:
aberjenagain · 16/10/2019 08:53

I’m with you mrd

WFH today which at least means I have my beloved moka pot to help me through Smile

BigChocFrenzy · 16/10/2019 11:50

Good luck, aber too
That moka pot sounds good

OP posts:
emcla · 16/10/2019 12:54

Good luck Wednesday fasters !

OohMrDarcy · 16/10/2019 16:52

Kitchen closed on 517 here with a happy full tum.

How you doing aber? What is a moka pot?

ListeningQuietly · 16/10/2019 17:08

Old face, new name, sneaking in to get BigChoc to remind me to drink less booze Grin

aberjenagain · 16/10/2019 17:23

Well done mrd. I'm done too on 720 (day 2 of b2b). A moka pot is a stovetop coffee pot, and I love it. Makes a vv strong coffee that I water down a bit for an Americano, or add to nuked milk for a strong milky coffee Brew Smile

OohMrDarcy · 16/10/2019 17:34

Well done aber, the moka pot sounds fun!

Hey listening , welcome back