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Fasting / 5:2 diet

Talk about intermittent fasting and 5:2, including what’s worked for others. Mumsnet hasn't checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. You may wish to speak to a medical professional before starting any diet.

5:2 Thread number 87: It's my body and I can if I want to

981 replies

BigChocFrenzy · 14/09/2019 17:38

Welcome to the continuing thread for those following 5:2 or other forms of IF (Intermittent Fasting) such as 4:3, ADF, or daily 16:8 Smile

The 5:2 diet was introduced by Michael Mosely on BBC Horizon in August 2012:

Basically it is 2 very low cal days ("fasts") per week - which need not be consecutive - and eat "normally" to maintain on the other 5 days.

For those who have dieted or maybe overeaten for years, eating "normally"
means roughly the number of calories your body needs to maintain - NOT reduce - its weight (see TDEE calculator below).

IMPORTANT
If you have had past diagnosed Eating Disorders or serious MH problems you should NOT do 5:2 or any other kind of fasting

ACRONYMS

16:8 is a different type of fasting, which can be combined with 5:2.
Daily zero-cal fast for 16 hours and eat within an 8 hour window. To lose weight, this needs a weekly calorie deficit as well

4:3 = fast on 3 non-consecutive days per week

ADF (Alternate-Day Fasting) = fast every other day

b2b (optional) back-to-back / consecutive fast days, each with an increased allowance of 650 calories instead of 500

BMI (Body Mass Index) healthy range is 18.5 - 24.9 for Caucasians. Upper limit may be 22 for some of Asian origin.

FD = single Fast Day: aim for 500 calories (600 for men or 25% TDEE whichever is higher) or 1000 cals for BF
No alcohol or junk on FDs
Even if you exercise strenuously, do NOT increase FD cals to allow for exercise

MFP = My Fitness Pal, a useful App or website to track food & drink calories

miniFD = MiniFD, 850-1000 calories, no alcohol or junk

NFD = Non-Fast Day, averages around TDEE

NSV / LSV = Non Scale Victory / LifeStyle (change) Victory, e.g. compliment, smaller waist, clothes size

SV = Scale Victory

TDEE = Total Daily Energy Expenditure, the average number of calories you burn in a day, is calculated (see calculators below) from your current weight, height, age, activity level.
Aim to average about this for NFDs.

WOE / WOL = Way Of Eating / Way Of Life. We say this instead of "diet", to emphasise that we must make a permanent change in how we eat, to mainitain our new healthy weight longterm.

HOW TO START

. Take initial measurements: weight, waist, hips
. Use TDEE calculator below if you need a rough guide to how much to eat on NFDs
. Choose any 2 days for FDs, non-consecutive is easier.
. Before each FD: plan, shop & calorie count ALL food & drink for the day

Useful Resources & Calculators

Calorie Counter: mfp
Rough Calories for NFD: Mosely TDEE Calc (exercisers: set activity level to one below what you think)
BMI: Calc
Ideal Weight & Body Frame Size: Calc Wt Frame
Body Fat: BFat Calc
Choose / Visualise Goal Weight:
3D BMI body types ripped to normal
Bod Vis Measurements & 3D rotate]]

Safe Alcohol Calc: Calc Units Cals

FD Recipes:
Mosely LowCarb , low carb Diet Doc
BBC Good Food 52 , BBC Good Food 500 cal meals ,
Good2Know , Foodie Under 200 Cals
Vegetarian ,

FD Ready Meals, Fast Food

Any Day:
Meal Planner

FAQs / Tips

  • WATER: Start each day with a glass of water; and drink plenty during the day.
  • HOT DRINKS: No limits on tea or coffee, but on FDs count any milk / sugar calories.
  • SLEEP: Try to get enough sleep, or it may slow weight loss.
  • EXERCISE: is healthy & can help weight loss - BUT only if you do NOT eat back less than you burn. Fasted training can burn more fat.
HIIT and resistance training both work well with 5:2/IF.
  • FDs: If possible, choose days when you are busy, but not preparing meals for others.
Concentrate on protein & veg; avoid sugar or fruit juice. e.g. Stir-fries, soups & stews. Ready meals are OK.
  • BFers: start with 1000-cal FDs, optionally reduce to 700 cals gradually.
You can return to 1000 if growth spurts or sleep-deprivation require more fuel.
  • NFDs: No rules, but to improve health, try to cut down on added sugar & junk food, keep alcohol within safe limits. A few treats per week are fine.
  • Do NOT fast: if you've ever had EDs, or if pregnant, under 21, over-stressed, fever, stomach bug, even a bad cold.
  • CHECK with your Doctor: if you have diabetes, any other endocrine condition, any serious past or present medical condition, or if taking ANY prescribed medication (fasting may affect absorption rate)

Scientific Evidence for Fasting & Health

BBC article on the original Horizon program

Telegraph comments on 5:2 and gives a brief overview by Dr Mosley, useful for newbies.

This InterviewPart1 and InterviewPart2 with leading ADF researcher Dr Varady explains why fasting helps you to lose weight AND improves some health markers.

Fasting boosts "autophagy" = recycling of old cells
Yoshinori Ohsumi won the 2016 Nobel prize for Medicine for research into autophagy
NOBEL Lecture “Autophagy – An Intracellular Recycling System”

Prof. R Taylor (Newcastle Uni) won the 2013 Diabetes UK Banting Prize for his Twin Cycle Hypothesis re the cause of type 2 diabetes: Twin Cycle Hypothesis T2
and showed a fasting diet could reverse T2

Dr Michelle Harvie (funded by cancer charities) showed possible benefits of intermittent fasting compared to standard daily calorie reduction in her trials (consecutive FDs) with women at high risk of breast cancer: ComparingDiets , EarlierResearch52

Dr Johnson showed intermittent fasting helped Asthma

HORMESIS & Why Intermittent Fasting Works: Mattson , BlackSwan and Hormesis

Molecular Mechanisms and Clinical Applications: J CellMetabolism
Recent research into the health benefits of fasting: e.g. by world-respected neuroscientist Dr MarkMattson (Mosely referred to his research) showed:

. Improved glucose regulation
. Loss of abdominal fat with maintenance of muscle mass
. Reduced blood pressure and heart rate
. Improved learning and memory and motor function
. Protection of neurons in the brain against dysfunction and degeneration in animal models of Alzheimer’s disease, Parkinson’s disease, stroke and Huntington’s disease.

Brain metabolism in health, aging, andneurodegeneration :
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

He compared 5:2 to ordinary daily diets on overweight women with family history of breast cancer.
Fasting group lost more belly fat, retained more muscle & had slightly better blood sugar regulation.

More of his research is in HealthyAging , Health , AvoidParkinsonsDisease

His article in J Aging Mech Disease 2015 explains the health benefits of intermittent fasting in great scientific detail.

Why intermittent fasting and stopping snacking can lower your risk of serious diseases:
Meal frequency and timing in health and disease

Fasting can help maintain brain health during aging:
emboj.embopress.org/content/36/11/1474
"lifestyles that include intermittent bioenergetic challenges, most notably exercise and dietary energy restriction, can increase the likelihood that the brain will function optimally and in the absence of disease throughout life"

This interview with leading researchers into fasting in combination with standard cancer treatment: ScientificDiscussion MoselyMattsonLongo and a LongoInterview

NY Times Fasting Overview

Research by other US and European scientists in this DailyTelegraph Article about the medicinal uses of fasting, for many serious conditions & diseases.

Recent trials with Type 2 diabetics and those at risk of having it used a form of daily fasting - skipping supper.
Their conclusions: eating 1-2 meals per day is better than several small meals for losing weight and controlling insulin levels, see Type2Paper

OP posts:
Thread gallery
8
Teacakeandalatte · 12/10/2019 21:49

Thanks BC I am going to try to plan the next FD meals. I did ok on the one meal last time but I think I might try 2 meals next time, and on NFDs more. As I say I have got into a bad habit of grazing and snacking so I am not quite sure how many would suit me.

Laniakea · 13/10/2019 09:36

Morning everyone - I’m still chipping away. SV today (I’m back to weighing only every few weeks) - 148.8 ... 11.6lbs lost since September 1st. BMI is 27.3, a fraction less than a stone to get under 25.

I’m just going to carry on doing more of the same - I’d love to lose that stone before Christmas but as soon as I set goals like that it generally goes to crap Grin Four big foodie events & a week on holiday between now & December won’t help either!

BigChocFrenzy · 13/10/2019 10:51

Well done on your SV, Lania Good progress

That stone is feasible, even with 4 feasts and a holiday before then, if you are sensible on the other NFDS, especially
no snacking and NHS alcohol limits

OP posts:
EssentialHummus · 13/10/2019 11:10

Well done mrd, lania! FD here and I expect TOTM is imminent, so let's see how that goes (eek). The weather is horrendous here in London so no gardening today but, on the bright side, also no toddler birthday parties for the first time since about August.

BigChocFrenzy · 13/10/2019 15:03

I'm fasting too, hummus in fact a b2b today + tomorrow
Good luck to us both Smile
Enjoy chilling and let your nerves untangle after all the toddler parties < shudders >

The last couple of weeks here have been full of feasting, hence the b2b:
German Reunification Day, Oktoberfest, start of the Federweisser & onion quiche season < dribbles >
and I must organise our team Federweisser evening soon at my fav Rhine cafe

I've done spin class this morning, then had a wonderful long Rhine walk
We've had a sunny shorts+T-shirt WE, 24C and I was soaking up the sun
So many people walking & cycling & fishing, dogs swimming, a lovely day Smile

OP posts:
EssentialHummus · 13/10/2019 20:01

Ooh, that weather sounds lovely bigchoc. How did the rest of your day go?

I ended up having a large portion of veg stew then yoghurt at (late) lunch, and that was it for me bar a few coffees. Possibly a b2b tomorrow - I’m waiting to hear if a travelling friend is free to meet, and that may involve a lunch out. Otherwise will power through I think.

BigChocFrenzy · 14/10/2019 00:11

Well done, Hummus
I love the freedom of being able to move FDs and eat normally when I meet a pal

I finished my FD too - I'm having a vegan b2b, then back to omnivore mode from Tuesday
I had another lovely walk early evening, but the insects were out too, so I'm not scratching

OP posts:
EssentialHummus · 14/10/2019 11:22

Signing in for my b2b. I’ve given up and bought an umbrella, otherwise I’ll have to spend the next 4 months wandering round in DH’s oversized jacket.

BigChocFrenzy · 14/10/2019 11:24

2nd day of my b2b, anyone else fasting today ?
Had some nuts with my black coffee for brunch;
planned for later: chunky veg & bean soup with a little quinoa

It's another sunny day, slightly cooler at 22C
It's my training rest day. I'll have a couple of Rhine walks - the rest of the week looks rainy & miserable

OP posts:
BigChocFrenzy · 14/10/2019 11:26

Ah, good luck to us both, hummus

I've a ridiculous number of jackets as I can never get on with brollies
I really will have another clothes clearout in December
Well, as I cycle everywhere, about 150 km weekly, a brolly would be a bit tricky

OP posts:
EssentialHummus · 14/10/2019 11:32

Good luck bigchoc!

emcla · 14/10/2019 12:51

I’m fasting too. Good luck everyone 🤗

Whattodowithaminute · 14/10/2019 12:57

Still not feeling great so haven’t started back on the fasting yet... off to see my parents this week on hols so might struggle to be fasting while I’m away too... back on it on the 23rd...

BigChocFrenzy · 14/10/2019 15:15

Good luck, emcla

What Sounds best if you just enjoy the holiday and take the time to get 100% fit again, then resume fasting on 23rd

OP posts:
emcla · 14/10/2019 16:29

Counting down to food. Had marmite x 2 and lots of water , tea and coffee. Hope all other fasters are doing well.

Laniakea · 14/10/2019 18:08

I’m fasting today :)

I’ve actually been marching around legoland with my kids all day - my hips are really playing up (still limited to very gentle walking :( ). So far i’ve just had a couple of coffees (55 calories).

I’ve had a bath & painkillers & now planning to go to bed with tea & toast & let dh feed everyone else!

EssentialHummus · 14/10/2019 19:19

lania that sounds very painful, hope you’re tucked up soon. Well done em. How did you get on bigchoc?

B2b here. Ended up meeting a friend for lunch after all, at an Indian restaurant, so I made the best choice I could in the circumstances and will treat that as my only meal today. Bar another coffee possibly, I’m done for today.

BigChocFrenzy · 14/10/2019 20:36

I hope your hips are better in the morning, Lania
A light supper in bed and an early night is a good plan

Well done, Hummus
I've finished too and off to clean my teeth early, to avoid temptation
I'll have an early night too (for me), bed around 10:30

How are you doing, emcla ?

OP posts:
emcla · 14/10/2019 21:14

Hi all. I’m doing fine. Had fish and salad and 4 homemade potato wedges for dinner. Lots of warm water. Brushed my teeth and ready for bed but wide awake I find fasting gives me lots of energy. I have always found this.

aberjenagain · 15/10/2019 08:16

Well done on the FDs bcf, emcla, hummus and lania

I’m checking in for day 1 of a b2b

emcla · 15/10/2019 08:18

Good morning all. No loss. A bit disappointed. Another fd on Thursday. Good luck to all Tuesday fasters.

Teacakeandalatte · 15/10/2019 08:56

Hi everyone and well done on your FDs. I'm looking at another mini fast today as I have still not got a handle on planning a FD and have a highish calorie dinner I really want. I think I need to think of a few fast day dinners in advance. Last time dh did the shopping and asked me what I wanted and I just said my usual favourites without thinking it through. This often happens as I am quite bad at planning and dh likes to do things asap.
I think this day will also be hard as dh and dd are off to a school event and I find I am often tempted to raid the cupboards for treats when left home alone.

BigChocFrenzy · 15/10/2019 09:05

Well done on your FD, emcla

Sometimes the loss only shows up after the following NFD
Weight can easily vary a couple of lb from day to day - undigested food, water / hormonal fluctuations etc - which could disguise a 1lb loss of bodyfat

However, if you weigh weekly, then since the last weigh-in, you may have eaten / drunk back what would have been the calorie deficit of the 2 FDs

==> Since you have a very tight 5 week target - so need to be much stricter than other 5:2ers -
did you follow the 5:2 boot camp system I recommended upthread, including mfp all this week
and calculating TDEE with Mosely's TDEE Calc ?

OP posts:
BigChocFrenzy · 15/10/2019 09:18

teacake I recommend everyone plan the FD menu at least the day before and do all the shopping, calorie counting then too

Only v experienced fasters can nail an FD with just ad hoc food prep

Important:
On a miniFD, the same food rules apply as on an FD;
the only change is that you have more calories, 800-1000

So, no alcohol or "treats" whatsoever on miniFDs
i.e. no cake, biscuits, chocolate (unless 85% cocoa), fancy lattes etc; no crisps etc
This is because even a little alcohol or sugary crap may seriously reduce the benefits of any FD or miniFD

Also, it is often easier anyway to say "none today" rather than to try rationing yourself to "just this one"
Better say:
"I can have it tomorrow"

If temptation strikes, then I recommend you immediately clean your teeth and use mouthwash

  • the clean minty feel and the short break often help to kill tempation
OP posts:
EssentialHummus · 15/10/2019 09:36

tea what I sometimes do if pushed for time/if I'm sending DH to the shops is just ask for a calorie counted ready meal (most of the larger supermarkets will have a section of these, even Aldi and Lidl, and there are properly tasty ones) - so a meal will be 350 cals or so, and then I add a big handful of something low calorie like broccoli or cucumber and it's really filling. Worth a go?

Good luck today to you and aber. em me neither today, but it'll happen!